GOTM-02: First Spoiler:

The first part of this game was pleasant. I ended up building towards religion and culture - mostly by accident. I expanded into a nice empire and the culture and 3 religions made my borders expand. I also captured 2 barb cities which helped. At that point I would have been content to build to a spaceship, but Spain and Arabia became more and more angry. My borders were right on top of their cities. There were several cities that revolted toward me, but never flipped. One of my cities did flip to Arabia. Eventually, Arabia and Spain tag-teamed me into submission. Arabia declared. When they were repulsed, Spain declared. When they were repulsed, Arabia declared again. When they were repulsed, Spain declared again. When they were repulsed, Arabia declared again. I'm sorry, but 5 successive wars was too much. I quit in the late industrial age. I might go back and officially retire and submit.

I played a subsequent game and purposefully tried the religion and culture thing again. Yep. Your neighbors hate your guts, no matter how well you treat them. I think that a very large standing army is required for empires like that. If your borders begin to push to their cities, take their cities! Or, at least be well-prepared for the inevitable wars.

Oh, and epic games are just too long. The balance of the game doesn't feel right. Maybe if epic games are played on a larger map it would feel right. Please consider normal games for GOTM.
 
I know how you feel with the border AI's repeated DOW on you every time the peace treaty ends. It was the same way in a succession game I was in (MM8). I think it's very broken that they just keep declaring over and over every 10 turns.

I have to disagree about epic speed. I find it's the most balanced speed for normal maps. Marathon is way too slow and normal is too fast. I would never play quick no matter what map I'm on.
 
whb said:
I'm a little surprised you didn't found York and Nottingham 1 square right of where they are - so York could take the second gems and Nottingham the stone. I know this requires building an Obelisk in York to get the copper, but the long-term gains seem very large.

tbh, looking back I am a little surprised as well, probably in too much of a rush to properly evaluate the sites. wrt York I guess, as you said, I just wanted acess to the copper sooner, though this was not really important in practice. I had hoped to eventually add a second city picking up the rice and second gems but was too slow.
 
Free religion is your friend when you have prickly neighbors. Getting rid of those -4 healthen modifiers for the fanatic AI civs can be well worth losing the bonus production for organized religion. For the same reason it can be worth delaying a switch to organized religion when you know you're surrounded by them. There is always time for sweet revenge later...
 
I have one question about epic speed actually: whenever I popped a great person, it always felt like they weren't giving me nearly enough beakers to do anything with once I got past the very early game. Obviously they shouldn't be able to give me an entire technology at higher tech levels, but shouldn't I expect to get at least a thrid of my research time taken off? I guess I just felt like the great people became ineffective a lot sooner in that respect than in normal mode. Anyone else get this or am I just crazy?
 
No I'm pretty sure great people give 50% more beakers in epic speed than normal speed, which is the same amount extra you need to learn techs. I find in general it's usually not worth it to use a great person to add research to a tech unless that tech will let you discover a religion.
 
whb said:
AnotherJon, this seems to be quite a common barb city location - this was where the barb's founded what was to be my fourth city, Chehalis. (The barbs also founded a city in the same 1-tile-east-of-the coast location that happened to you, but in my case the Malinese razed it and settled on the coast just before I got there, so Hastings was founded on the plains/coast to use the sheep SE of London.

Ditto. In my game Cyrus took it with one archer, I hate the AI bonus vs barbs. It ended up being size 18 before the industrial era, and never had less than 10 units in it. I was so jealous :(
 
Well, this was my first prince game, and also my first lake map game. In spite of that, I feel I did pretty well in that I survived until 1960 when I lost the space race to Washington. Even on epic, my total game time was only about 4.5 hours.

It was also my first time playing with the financial trait and I didn't really use it to the best of its abilities, I'm saddened to say.

It was quite a fun game, however and I look forward to seeing where I stand in the ranks of the defeated.
 
Well, my first on prince, and not too good. I lost one of the cities I built about 6 spaces to the west of starting location, Nottingham, where some of you have taken a barb city. I tried to take it back, but Izzi was to fast and took it. This was a grave loss to my civilization I think. The city grew to a powerhouse...

And for some reason Coventry would never grow past 1, I tried to set computer management off, and set it manualy to fish, but each turn it would go back to make a specialist citizen... :confused: See pictures
I was a good way down on the list, more will come in spoiler 2..
 

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That city has the citizen specialist forced. What this means is you clicked the + sign next to the specialist. You can tell that's the case by the thick yellow border around the icon. When a specialist is forced the governor will leave it hired no matter what. The only way to remove it is to click the - sign next to the specialist to un-force it.
 
Shillen said:
That city has the citizen specialist forced. What this means is you clicked the + sign next to the specialist. You can tell that's the case by the thick yellow border around the icon. When a specialist is forced the governor will leave it hired no matter what. The only way to remove it is to click the - sign next to the specialist to un-force it.


:rolleyes: Duh, how stupid of me, shouldn't think that I have played civ for the last 14 years... :blush: Not quite used with cIV yet, a bit hung up in the old ways, the yellow border disappeared when I choose the food location myself, strange that that didn't nullifie that I had accidentaly clicked the + sign..

Well, lesson learnt, surely lost some points on that one, could have grown a bit..
 
Shillen said:
I know how you feel with the border AI's repeated DOW on you every time the peace treaty ends. It was the same way in a succession game I was in (MM8). I think it's very broken that they just keep declaring over and over every 10 turns.

It gets old real fast. I think the game needs an 'out' when an AI declares which would let you make peace quickly. Still, I need to get much better about carrying a big stick.

Shillen said:
I have to disagree about epic speed. I find it's the most balanced speed for normal maps. Marathon is way too slow and normal is too fast. I would never play quick no matter what map I'm on.

Well, I only played normal games and found them to be normal. Maybe I'll need to shift to playing epic games as normal.
 
Markus5 said:
It gets old real fast. I think the game needs an 'out' when an AI declares which would let you make peace quickly. Still, I need to get much better about carrying a big stick.
Based on MM8, I think the only "out" is to kill one during the 1st or 2nd war if possible. This will limit you to only 1 hateful civ, which is easier to deal with. Friends are useful too, as in the end one of our antagonists got hammered by 2 or 3 advanced civs, letting us max out the culture slider and getting the culture win pretty comfortably. However, killing one of the antagonist early is probably best as it'll allow you to focus on one front and probably max the culture slider earlier, but not sure.
 
It was a fun game. I selected the domination path eventually. Well, it's the most familiar victory to me anyway.

Pregame
Once I heard about GOTM2 news. I played 2 test games using the same settings. What I had found was early tech trading was possible. The AIs would trade with you at first. I also found that if you get horse early, a very early war with Chariot was possible. Of course if you get the horse before the AIs get archery.

Early Adventure
So, I started the game, settled on the spot, sent warrior southwest. I knew I was in the north. So warrior wentsouthwest until it hit the border of Spanish empire. Then it went northwest and so on so forth. In this way, the warrior could met all the rivals very quickly. The warrior picked up huts and animals on the way gathering money and combat experiences. Once, it hit Mali’s bother, I saw a warrior guarding a settler coming out of Mali’s border. I hesitate a while and then decided, what the hell. Luckily, I won and captured the settler who turned into my worker. Then again, the warrior fended off another Mali’s warrior attack in the forest with woodman II promotion. However, I ventured into Mali’s heartland and saw a UU archer. The next thing was total darkness… So, I made peace with Mali quickly. And the worker made home safely.

Science
My research path was Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, The Wheel, Writing, and then Alphabet. Once, I got writing, I made open border with everybody. And then when I got Alphabet, I traded everything I had except Alphabet to everybody else to get all the techs they would like to trade. Once I got Bronze Working by trading, I started researching Iron Working immediately. Otherwise I can’t connect my gem in York, which I created NW to the hill gem which could also get the sheep when its border expanded. Of course, Iron Working gave me swordman which was my major attacking force before maceman was available.

Falling behind
Barbarian founded Hsung-Nu north of Nottingham which was southwest just out of reach of stone site. (BTW, I ignored the stone, so I didn’t get any early wonders.) When I was planning to capture this free city, Washington took the action! His chariot captured Hsung-Nu in 740BC where I don’t have any horse nearby. All I could do was to shut my mouth tight and doing my best to catch up.

I settled the Hasting in the Jungle for rice which was a poor health site. However, this error leads to another incident which decided my pathway of the game.

Spanish-British War!
During the 1st millennium BC, I was most behind other civs scores wise. But everybody's score was close to each other. And the ordering kept changing. Some countries started asking tributes from me. On 260BC, Isabella DOW on me! Her army approached my jungle city Hasting. I don’t remember what was in the city defending. Anyway, her initial attack was barely stopped. And I started popping out swordmen in London, and slowly started counterattack.

Ally for life time
Around 1AD, good news was one after another. I found Confucianism on 1AD, captured Barcelona on 20AD, and persuaded Monty to join the war against the evil Spanish on 40AD. Monty would be my friend and fighting partner for the entire game, and was the sole surviving rival at the end.

The spreading of the Confucianism
I took a break in the middle of the war and converted to Confucianism on 120AD, adopted Slavery (Yes, slavery!) and Organized Religion the next turn.

The holy city was Nottingham. It spreaded the religion into Hsung-Nu, Barcelona, and later Madrid . Both Americans and spanish converted. This gave me views for critical spanish army movements and Hsung-Nu, the city I was eager to taken.

I also made sure every british city have Confucianism spreaded so that at least the city would expand its border in next 15 turns without doing anything, and it added a lot of money to my wallet once I got the Holy wonder built in Nottingham.

Spanish was beaten
I captured the lakeside city Cordoba in 200AD, and razed Salamanca in 310AD because it was too close to Barcelona. Now I was facing heavily defended Madrid and a hilly city. So I decide to stop this time consuming war on 320AD and focused on internal establishments.

War on Americans
The American city Hsung-Nu was too close to my capital to let it go. I grab the moment it was not heavily defended and DOW and teamed up with Monty the 2nd time on 430AD. Hsung-Nu was captured on 440AD.

I was researching for Civil Service looking for maceman. However, it turned out I still need Machinery to enable it. Doh! Only Washington had Metal Melting. And how would I push him to give it to me for peace since his next city was heavily defended on the hill? I had to research that tech line by myself.

The east front
I was also expanding eastwards. I set up Canterbury on the peninsula on the other side of the inner sea east of London in 4th century, hoping it could be a money maker. Incidentally it was the last city I built in the next 1,100 year or so. Then I sent some units to capture a barbarian city Mauryan on 500AD, which was close to the expanding bother of Mali. This brought immediate trouble. Monsa DOW to me on 510AD. And I think I literally abandoned the Mauryan because my army was in poor condition, and withdrew them to Canterbury, hoping I could took a stand there.

Summary
At 500sAD, I was in a little uncertain place. 3 of the 5 neighboring civs hated me and 2 of them having war with me. Only one of them fought for me which was invaluable. I could win a war on one front but not on 2 or more. I have to focus my entire offensive army at one spot. The set back at east front was a big hit. I wasn’t sure if I'd lost Canterbury as well. Or Monsa’s army would approach further west. I think I have to kill one of the bad neighbors first. But which one was the target? I think I would face Monsa first because he was the strongest and dangerous. All right, it’s time to stop.
 
Moderator Action: Edited. This is the *first* spoiler, not the *last*

:) You say that like there was something I wrote that might spoil things for people... how does my score do that?

Anyways, sorry, next time I'll wait until the *last* one is released.
 
Shillen said:
London's Great People generation:

(1) 920BC - Scientist - Academy in London
(2) 400BC - Scientist - Academy in York
(3) 290AD - Scientist - Discover Philosophy for Taoism
(4) 470AD - Scientist - Merged in York
(5) 620AD - Engineer - Rushed Great Library in London
(6) 770AD - Scientist - Saved for later golden age
This GP strategy is amazing. Never knew this before although I got libary pretty early. Will try out in the following games.
 
This is my first GOTM, and I'm really enjoying it.
Settled in the starting position, seems like a strong spot for food and GPs.
Built York early to the south by the Gems and Sheep (didn't know about the copper, so missed that), this spot looks great for building up a military.
Founded 3rd city west in the jungle to get the gold & stone.
Went for Iron Working v. early in order to clear the jungle & because there was no obvious way to get horses or copper.
The regularity and ferocity of barbarian attacks surprised me - I haven't played this kind of map before - and I spent a long time reacting to them swarming to my cities and pillaging the gems/gold.
Got on top of them eventually and founded 4th, 5th cities to the east. One on the coast of the lake by the nice resources and one further north to grab the marble & copper up there.
I haven't expanded as far as the other civs yet, and am ahead on techs. I think it's 200AD or so. This is my first time playing on epic too and I'm really enjoying the pace, and the way military units get more movement across the board.
 
@hurricane766: Let me try again:

The paragraph I deleted described your final victory condition and score. If everyone did that, all the results to date would be on show here on a rolling basis, visible to other players who have not finished yet. The first player to get here has none of that information. The last player to reach this stage in the game could potentially see the entire leader-board here, and could then decide on her best victory condition to secure an award. That makes the playing field uneven, with more information available for later players. We are trying to keep the playing field flat.
 
AlanH said:
@hurricane766: Let me try again:

The paragraph I deleted described your final victory condition and score. If everyone did that, all the results to date would be on show here on a rolling basis, visible to other players who have not finished yet. The first player to get here has none of that information. The last player to reach this stage in the game could potentially see the entire leader-board here, and could then decide on her best victory condition to secure an award. That makes the playing field uneven, with more information available for later players. We are trying to keep the playing field flat.

So should I remove my vitory date and final score on post #74?
 
Yes please. Same goes for all players who have published their final results if they completed after the cutoff criteria for this spoiler.
 
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