GOTM-05 Pre-Game Discussion

[jayeffaar]

A Warlord level Epic game... It's not quite "out there" enough to be an April Fool's joke... barely...

 

[Sparts]

Nice catch jayeffaar, I guess when we all load up the save game on april 1st, the settings and/or starting location will be different. If not, I'll not play this game. Contrary to an earlier post, I don't play GOTM for competition with other players. I play this game for fun. The fun part of course being comparing strategies for overcoming specific difficulties ingame. Even with 'raging barbarians' (I see no barbarians setting) this can't be very difficult.

Ah well maybe I will play, just to see what kind of surprises were built in. (apart from no-resources anywhere nearby that I expect).

 

[ionimplant]

what's the difference between settling on the desert hill and the plain hill?

 

[Jason Fliegel]

Wouldn't think you would need any bonuses for a warlord game.

If you don't need bonuses, don't play Adventurer class.

Warlord is a bit easy for me, too -- I'll probably make my first ever foray into Challenger class -- but I, for one, applaud the staff for varying the game difficulty enough to include everyone.

 

[DaviddesJ]

what's the difference between settling on the desert hill and the plain hill?

On the plains hill, the city center will produce 2 hammers. On the desert hill, it will only produce 1 hammer.

Eventually, if your city works the other hill (with a mine), it will be a wash. But, in the early turns, the extra hammer from the center tile is a big advantage. And it may turn out that the desert hill is never worth working.

 

[greentea]

Warlord sounds too easy, but a bad location on great plains can compensate somewhat. Also Catherine might not be able to use her superpowers so much. Still, even if it is easy to win, it's not easy to win faster than others. Thanks to the variety of settings this GOTM will be interesting, as always.

 

[malekithe]

Ah, Great Plains, the map full of livestock...

Just loaded up a couple to remind myself what the layout of a Great Plains map typically looks like. I forgot just how many cow resources there are in the middle of the map. Check out the attached screenshot...

Yes, that's 6 cows within the starting city radius, one of them on a floodplain (the mother of all starting tiles IMO, 5F 2H 1C). Honestly, it's probably too much for any one city to make use of early in the game and begs for some tightly packed starting cities. On warlord, diversity of resources isn't as important due to the built-in happiness and health bonuses, so there's less priority to expand to find new resources.

Generally, on Great Plains maps, I think it's best (especially with a financial civ) to try to expand into the east. There's rediculously fertile land there, plus ample trees for the chopping. In this GOTM start, looks like we're about 1/3-1/2 into the plains; there's no forest but still a smattering of grassland. Starting spots for this longitude are typically closer to the top of the map, which would make for a relativley short trip to the valuable northeast (where there are hills along with the grassland). The southeast wouldn't be too bad either, there's just typically a few jungle tiles to contend with.

For civs starting on the plains on these maps, bronze and iron can be hard to come by, while horses are usually fairly easy. Also, roads between cities are sometimes less necessary and can be delayed, due to the large number of rivers and them being (mostly) interconnected; there are typically only two networks of rivers on the whole map.

I don't care for the western third of Great Plains maps. There are a lot of unusable mountain tiles mixed in with a fair number of hills. Absent good resources, it becomes very difficult to grow your population. Though, there is usually little difficulty finding metals and there are ample trees for chopping. If you're going for a fast conquest the increased production and forested tiles could really jump-start a military campaign.

I'm skeptical about these settings, though. It has the scent of an April Fool's joke. After slogging my way through an Emperor game, I can't decide how to take the Warlord thing. Is it a much needed respite, or a subtle mocking of my efforts over the last month? I play the games of the month to get better at the game. Finding the best and quickest way to overcome hopelessly inept AI (regardless of how the deck has been artificially stacked against you), just doesn't seem to be in the spirit of why I play the GOTM. I was looking forward to a similar, if not slightly elevated challenge from last month, to test the things I learned. If this is truly what the April GOTM settings are going to be, I'll have to wait until May to resume my lessons.

 

[godotnut]

Would someone mind making a practice start? I doubt many of us will need the practice to win, but I'm going to use this GOTM to fine tune some things in my game, and it would be nice to give it a quick run through without using a map where I already know where all the resources are.

 

[ainwood]

A Warlord level Epic game... It's not quite "out there" enough to be an April Fool's joke... barely...

Yeah - epic might be the 'problem' - I think warlord is OK.

The reason I've gone for warlord is that over the last couple of months, the increasing difficulty has resulted in quite a few people losing, and less people submitting (although people are still downloading the game).

Warlord is very easy - and I expect we'll see >95% of submissions as victories. But I think the difficulty was cranked-up a bit too quickly from GOTM 1 through 4. Starting at warlord again allows us to build-up the difficulty gradually again, and hopefully attract more players who will be prepared to follow the ride and learn to play at higher levels. Consider that in the warlord game, the good players are playing against each other, rather than the AI.

 

[Tauro]

You don't know your longitude position. If you spawn near the forest you will research BW, if not it's a totally different game. So it's better to try both.
I simply tried a game with same settings just for evaluate the AI science progress. I started in the better position ever, between grasslands and forests. My last opponent monty asked me calendar in 1415, Ghandi had engineering, optics and machinery, but not guilds...
You can easily reach cossacks at 1000 AD, maybe in the worst situation. But win in 1200 by conquest means a poor score for this level...100.000? 80.000? I don't really know. I scored 66 with all the wonders (simply a quite forced mistake) in 1415 with byology, phisic, communism.
P.S.
The won/lost ratio was 24:1

 

[gmanne]

The reason I've gone for warlord is that over the last couple of months, the increasing difficulty has resulted in quite a few people losing, and less people submitting (although people are still downloading the game).

However familar I may be with the stench of defeat last months smell was legendary by even my standards. The ruins left by my sad little civilisation will be studied for years by undergraduate archeo-anthropologists keen on proving the inherent lameness of man.
'As you can see class this tribe thought fire was really uber-cool, right up to the time Greek battle tanks squashed them.'
Warlord difficulty? I look forward to more interesting, nay challenging, ways to get eliminated!

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

Okay. A GOTM even I can't wimp out of. I'll play. I was really afraid we'd be on deity this month. Maybe now I can ramp up with the games.

 

[Mutineer]

To easy dificult, to slow speed. Not interested.

 

[Memphus]

Well although I am still trying desperately to get enough time in to finish GOTM 4 ( I am sure I will )

This Game looks like alot of fun.

To easy dificult, to slow speed. Not interested.

To easy of Difficulty? That's Ok Everyone knows we will win, try to beat the humans playing score
To Slow of a Speed? Taht Ok Try to conquer the World by 1 AD, then it won't be a long game

The only thing that worries me with a difficulty below settler, the ability to pop a warrior or settler from a hut arises, which can grealy swing the early game.

Oh btw anyone up for a OCC?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

The hill on the left is plains. The hill on the right is desert. You can tell by looking at the yield icons (2h1c on the left, 1h1c on the right).

Are those floodplains to the west and northwest of the plains hill?

 

[DaviddesJ]

Are those floodplains to the west and northwest of the plains hill?

NW from the plains hill is floodplains. I'm not sure about the space W of the plains hill. It might be another hill. Someone with more experience might know better than me.

 

[Thrallia]

NW from the plains hill is floodplains. I'm not sure about the space W of the plains hill. It might be another hill. Someone with more experience might know better than me.

I wouldn't say I'm more experienced than you...but I'm 95% certain that the tile W and NW of the plains hill are both floodplains.

The tile S of the plains hill and desert hill are both desert, the tile S of the Mountain is forest(probably forest, plain)

I also believe the tile E of the mountain is grasslands, the tile N of that is plains, and the tile N of that(2 E of the scout) is forest plains.

That's my take on it at least...my browser lets me zoom in, so I took a really close view of the picture...or I wouldn't have seen as much as I think I do.

 

[The-Hawk]

Still, even if it is easy to win, it's not easy to win faster than others. Thanks to the variety of settings this GOTM will be interesting, as always.

I agree... all Warlord means is it is unlikely people will get trashed early. Fastest finish or top score is just as challenging as it was last month. And it will be a great chance to learn from others as always.

I like the change of pace. Since I screwed up GOTM4 so quickly, I've had lots of free time on my hands. So I've been trying to win a Deity large-map domination to post on the HOF. It'll be nice to play a game where I'm not way behind the whole game! I'm hoping Alex is one of the opponents, I really owe him one from GOTM4.

Thanks ainwood...

 

[armstrong]

The reason I've gone for warlord is that over the last couple of months, the increasing difficulty has resulted in quite a few people losing, and less people submitting (although people are still downloading the game).

From my personal experience, I saw this game over the holiday break when old friends gather. I was just itching for a "modern" turn-based strategy game. Having never played Civ3, and starting in January, it seemed like I was always behind the curve for the GOTM - when I first this forum, and GOTM2, it was on Prince and I hadn't even grasped Noble. GOTM3? I was just about ready to move up to Prince, but it was Monarch. And last month, I was just about ready to make the move up to Monarch when I saw that dreaded Emperor. Now, with a few Monarch wins under my belt, a Warlord game should be a cakewalk - but of course, the Great Plains is an interesting map...

In any case, I was one of the folks downloading (and not submitting) maps, because they were always too far over my head. I'm glad the pace of the games has stopped ramping up so I can join in with some reports... thanks.

 

[Verowin]

good one, ainwood always has unexpected twists to make the game interesting for everyone