GOTM-05 Pre-Game Discussion

I tried generating a couple of Great Planes maps to look at resource distribution and got this one. It is a natural start, I did not enter World Builder to edit it, but it has no visable resources and is in a similar (middle of board, though maybe more to the northwest) position to the GOTM start.
Though it is not exactely the same some may have use of this for a practice game.
 
I for one am very glad for an easier start. And I like the epic warlord combination. Not every GOTM may be the ideal settings for everyone, but diversity (both too hard for many AND too easy for many) is good.

Who knows maybe a really smart, creative, good player may try a new strategy wrinkle for something and find it works better?
 
I did some deciphering of the Great_Plains map script. This start for the GOTM is between 11 and 13 tiles from the left-hand side of the map; right on the boundary of the rockies. It is also, most-likely, in the upper 60% of the map (not in Texas).

There are interesting quirks of the Great Plains maps in general. They are divided into several different sections that all have unique characteristics and defined boundaries. These regions are: Rockies, SW Desert, Plains, Texas, Eastern Grassland, Louisiana Wetlands, and the Gulf. There's also a somewhat randomly placed section of hills called the Ozarks. It's in the upper 2/3 of the map on the boundary between the Plains and the Grasslands (it moves around quite a bit). It's a somewhat circular region of predominantly hills.

In addition to having a unique terrain makeup, these regions all also have distinct resource sets. Only a few resources are placed in the usual (completely random) method. These are Iron, Copper, Coal, Stone and Oil. In addition, there will always be an extra 4 oil patches in the Texas region. Several other resources will not appear on the map. These are: Rice, Whale, Silk, Banana, and Ivory. Ivory is the most significant of these; no chance for war-elephants.

There's a lot more to relate from the map script, if anyone's interested. Even a few bugs...
 
I've started a few practice games. I'm not used to this little barb activity. I'm gonna probably even risk a naked settler. The AI doesn't start too fast with settlers etc. and even with a basically an enter enter enter enter playstyle I was still way ahead of the AI doing nothing.
 
A medium Great Plains map is 44 tiles wide by 32 tiles tall. Each of the sections have the following approximate dimension (*'ed values are exact):

Rockies:
9 tiles wide by 24* tiles tall in the NW.
SW Desert:
9 tiles wide by 8* tiles tall in the SW.
Eastern Grasslands:
15 tiles wide along the eastern half of the map
Plains:
20 tiles wide in the center of the map
Texas:
A subsection of the Plains, 16 tiles wide by 11* tiles tall
in the S directly adjacent to the SW Desert
Louisiana Wetlands:
A subsection of the Grasslands 15 tiles wide by 14* tiles
tall in the SE
Gulf:
A subsection of Louisiana and the Plains, 22* tiles wide
at the bottom by 8* tiles tall
Ozarks:
A randomly placed region 8* tiles wide by 6* tiles tall
placed anywhere 16-39 tiles to the east from the edge
and 11 to 27 tiles north from the bottom

The tarrain makeup of each region is as follows:

Rockies:
44%Hills, 26%Mtns, 30%Flat | 50%Desert, 30%Plains,
20%Grass | 55%Forest, 0%Jungle
SW Desert:
30%H, 10%M, 60%F | 70%D, 30%P, 0%G | 8%F, 0%J
Eastern Grasslands:
20%H, 0%M, 60%F | 2%D, 23%P, 75%G | 45%F, 0%J
Plains:
8%H, 0%M, 92%F | 8%D, 75%P, 17%G | 8%F, 0%J
Texas:
8%H, 0%M, 92%F | 28%D, 61%P, 11%G | 8%F, 0%J
Louisiana Wetlands:
Same as Grasslands but with 40% Jungle (forest may
"override" some of the jungle)
Gulf:
All water
Ozarks:
70%H, 0%M, 30%F | Fertility and Forest cover
determined based upon parent region

Now the resources with their average abundance (1 rare - 5 common):

Rockies:
Aluminum 3, Fur 4, Gold 3, Silver 4, Sheep 3, Deer 3,
Uranium 3, Horse 4, Dye 1
SW Desert:
Incense 1, Silver 4, Corn 2
Eastern Grasslands:
Corn 2, Fur 4, Deer 3, Pig 2, Marble 1, Sugar 1, Spices 2,
Horse 4 | Only in the northern 40% - Wheat 4, Wine 2
Plains:
Horse 4, Gems 1, Spices 2, Cow 5 | In the northern 40%
- Wheat 4, Wine 2
Texas:
Same as the Plains except - Oil 2 and Cow down to 3
Louisiana Wetlands:
Same as the Grasslands except it will never be in the
upper 40%
Gulf:
Clams 2, Fish 2
Ozarks:
Same as the parent region, wherever it gets placed

Additionally the following resources can be found anywhere:
Iron 4, Copper 3, Coal 3, Stone 2, Oil 4

Now some random quirks:
  • The map script refers to cow as buffalo, apparently that's what they're supposed to be here.
  • The buffalo are distributed similarly to how trees are, just with a lower probablity (5%).
  • Corn can appear on desert tiles in the SW desert, but can't be seen (still can be farmed).
  • The Rockies are full of Forested Desert (with snow covered trees!).
  • Dyes can only appear on forested desert hills in the rockies.
  • The Jungle in Louisiana is being distributed based upon the wrong fractal pattern and, as such, may vary considerably in abundance from game to game.
  • The regions are all slightly different sizes when deciding on Elevation, Fertility, Forest covering, and resources. For instance, Rocky Mountains can extend at most 14 tiles into the east, whereas the Rocky Forests will never extend more than 8.
  • Longitudinal regional boundaries are allowed to vary (except when placing forests and resources) whereas latitudinal are not.
  • Apparently, at some point, Soren told the map script writers that they weren't allowed to place resources on an oasis.
  • Other than the regional associations, there's no built in system to "clump" luxury resources like usual.
 
ainwood said:
Lets hope that the map hasn't been modified then, eh? :mischief:

True...True...

But, unless your mind is Open-source, not much chance of anyone predicting what could have been changed...
 
ummm... is a winding river with financial trait not a "rescource"?
also, I hadn't tried emperor before last month, and am now cosistently holding my own (no win yet) on random games, so thanks for the push. One question on GOTM rules, culture coversion after conquest is off?:confused:
 
DaveMcW said:
If you move 1W, you're still getting those visible deserts in the city radius. We're really talking about exchanging 2 plains and 1 grassland for 3 black tiles.

If you play for a military win you will not come close to working all the tiles. If you play for diplo/space I think you will still benefit by having your 2nd (and 3rd 4th 5th...) cities built sooner.

Oops, mixed up the settler and the scout :blush: Ofcourse I meant comparing settling on the hill to settling 1 NW.

But I see your point.

In GOTM1 I settled Rome on the plains hill north of the large desert. Settling on the plains hill enabled getting a worker 3 turns faster and thus farming the corn earlier, etc. But when going for a cultural VC, I regretted having so few cottages possible around Rome. But maybe the mistake was not settling Rome on the plains hill, but selecting Rome for being one of the 50K cities.

On warlord, being financial and near a river will enable fast research and fast growth. Maybe founding the capitol on the hill and cottage-spam other cities is best for fast cultural.
 
Dick Fosbury said:
ummm... is a winding river with financial trait not a "rescource"?
also, I hadn't tried emperor before last month, and am now cosistently holding my own (no win yet) on random games, so thanks for the push. One question on GOTM rules, culture coversion after conquest is off?:confused:
Can't remember, off-hand. Its whatever the default it (ie - I haven't changed it).
 
A'AbarachAmadan said:
Nah, just set a subcompetition rule of one session only. :p

I know this might come as a shock to some of you, especially with Civ being a turn based game, but there is a Pause button. It stops the clock.

BTW, ainwood, are we ever going to start a game in another era? It might be interesting to actually have war in the modern era, with other civs being in the modern era as well.
 
I don't see a lot of forest, i will gamble on chosing a strategy thet is chopping-neutral. Now i will only have to figure out what that means.

Probobly i strategy is based alot around riverside cottages. And a few early scouts fo beat the AI to any nearby huts in hope for some real goodies that you can get on warlord with scouts.

Or maybe i will do the unconvential and send the settler far northwards in search of some real forestsite.

Maybe i am a bit arrogant but on warlord i think i should be able to manage an unconventional gamble, that gets me a game different to all others or might get my settler killed by a animal before year 3200BC.
 
kingjoshi said:
I know this might come as a shock to some of you, especially with Civ being a turn based game, but there is a Pause button. It stops the clock.
Well then I think a gauntlet style fastest game-year conquest or domination is the go then, thats what I am going to try for, I don't have the time or desire to milk a huge score domination win although I tip my hat to the players that do it skillfully.

Fastest gameyear cultural-diplo or spaceship prob requires more RL time, but not a great deal more, there is an optimal empire size for those.

BTW, ainwood, are we ever going to start a game in another era? It might be interesting to actually have war in the modern era, with other civs being in the modern era as well.
Well we are only at GOTM05 and this is the first 'variant' map, so give it a chance I'm sure it will happen eventually... plenty of time for many more GOTMs to come!
 
popping huts with scouts is unreal on warlord. Got 2 workers and a settler on a test game. On another got BW and AH in back to back turns. The barbs have a hard time taking down scouts (or anything).

The most successful thing I've been doing is starting a warrior-warrior start and doing harrassment of the closest neighbors. It's tough to worker steal with warriors, but I'm assuming we get 0 horses 0 iron 0 bronze so it's the only way to keep the man down. Very MP type strategy.

Big delays by the AI in wonders. Can hold the oracle slingshots if needed for a long time.
 
culdeus said:
I've started a few practice games. I'm not used to this little barb activity. I'm gonna probably even risk a naked settler. The AI doesn't start too fast with settlers etc. and even with a basically an enter enter enter enter playstyle I was still way ahead of the AI doing nothing.
I played practice game 1 last night a bit. I settled 3 of 4 cities w/o escort...the 4th got attacked so, there's a good chance you'll make..esp early...the animals run away from your settlers at least initially...

If we start approx where we did in Prac 1, then we're in pretty good shape, i think...i'm going to try prac 2 tonight and see if i can't expand se towards the gulf and put that on my back...the plains though, make for TERRIFIC patterns for your cities...it's almost a perfect star!!
 
I too am excited to see the diffculty ease up. I hope this is not an April fools joke. I have played all 4 GOTMIV and have had to play the beginner class since I was just getting slaughter on the higher diffculty levels. This is a little easy but it will be nice to not have to be way behind the enitire game. I do suspect some sort of twist though.
 
I'd think he's more likely to modify the map then not... part of the whole reason I'm doing this is attempting unique maps and seeing multiple ways to take on the challenge.
 
I would also like to say thanks for reducing the difficulty this month. I'm still trying to get my hands on consistent Noble strategies, and the last two gotms were very intimidating to a player like me.
 
After thinking some more, I wonder if it's better to go searching for food resources before settling. With a scout it should be easy to find multiple food bonuses on great plains, assuming ainwood hasn't removed them all.
 
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