GOTM 07 Second spoiler - end game

[Wallabulla]

The worst war I had... was with the wife, who shut down my game without saving, thus rendering it useless for turning in.

But, I had Toku knocked off, the continent split in two, almost had Vicky dead, and Izzy was keeping HC and Alex busy. My only friend was JC, if you can believe it... And as odd as this might seem, I built every wonder except for Ankor Wat. Up until the great shutdown of June '06, of course

ouch, that's bad. You should set the game too autosave each turn, you can do this in the .ini file.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

ouch, that's bad. You should set the game too autosave each turn, you can do this in the .ini file.

I have a habit of saving whenever I get my butt out of the chair.... except this once, of course.

 

[malekithe]

I have a habit of saving whenever I get my butt out of the chair.... except this once, of course.

If you haven't tweeked with the ini file or autosave options at all, you probably have a save from no more than 5 turns ago that you could load...

 

[Equendil]

Frist spoiler here :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4210689&posted=1#post4210689

I'm going for cultural, picking up from first spoiler, c. 600AD, I have my three cultural cities set up, and three peripheral cities for spreading religion and building military if I have to. I've just ended an early war against Isabella that she started.

I grabbed the Pyramids, Parthenon, Stonehenge, and the Hinduist shrine, all in Mecca. Victoria and Caesar have converted to Hinduism. I didn't attempt the Oracle, as my tech path was too messy.

Partly because of all the jungle, all my cities need a lot of work. Improving my cities and keeping good relations with my neigbours is my priority. I abandon my religion as two neighbours are threatening to wage war on my civilization.

c. 935AD: Chichen Itza is completed in Mecca that has now pretty much become my wonder city and great person farm. This is my first attempt at a cultural win, and I have little experience in generating great people. Mecca is a mess with all the wonders, and I get great prophets where I'd rather have scientists for academies. Or great artists. Still, great people are never lost, I use whatever I get to improve my other cultural cities and my economy. Other civs keep switching positions on the score, most are rather backwards, and I'm able to trade techs to stay ahead. My workers are busy minging, setting cottages, farms, linking resources, and chopping the jungle tiles. I shot for Music for the free artist, and intend to build the Great Library for free scientists. Victoria is not far behind in tech however. The Greeks are bringing the Incan civ down.

c. 965AD. Warwick revolts and joins my empire. Shouldn't have settled so close to my civilization. Another city that needs a lot of work.

c. 1000AD. I begin work on the Great Library in Mecca, and Notre Dame in my second cultural city Medina. Unfortunately, I have no great engineer at hand.

c. 1070 AD. I can now switch to bureaucracy. Rather late.

c. 1172 AD. The Japanese beat me to the Great Library. I had a great engineer a few turns before, but decided to save him as I was only a few turns from completion. Oops. I'll build the Great Collossus.

c. 1202 AD. I found Islam in Damascus, my third cultural city. I need religions, and other civs didn't spread much of anything to me. I now have hinduism and islam I founded, and Taoism I got from Warwick when it revolted and joined my civ.

c. 1250 AD. Notre Dame is completed in Medina.

c. 1262 AD. I have good relations with everyone, especially Isabella despite our early war (but then she started it). The Japanese declare war on the English, which is a good thing for me, while other civs are waging war, I'm building my techs.

c. 1280 AD. I complete the Collosus in Mecca. Next is the Sistine Chapel, though I doubt I'll complete that.

c. 1346 AD. Caesar declares war on the English too. The Japanese are already at war against the english, and with the help of Caesar, I'm afraid they capture english cities and grow stronger.

c. 1352 AD. Alexander beats me to the Sistine Chapel. I go for the Spiral Minaret.

c. 1358 AD. Alexander seems to have a large territory thanks to the Inca but rather backward in techs. I have decent relations with the Japanese and decides to bring another civ in the war against them, I can afford the -1. I bribe Alexander into war against the japanese with a couple techs. That will keep them all busy.

c. 1376 AD. Mecca completes the Spiral Minaret.

c. 1382 AD. Tokugawa, now busy with Alexander, makes peace with Victoria. The English and Rome are still at war.

c. 1412 AD. Victoria and Caesar make peace.

c. 1424 AD. Isabella, who's rather backward, joins the fun and declares war on Tokugawa.

c. 1508 AD. Versailles is completed in my third cultural city Damascus. That'll gain me a few coins.

c. 1529 AD. I discover liberalism! I pick astronomy as a free tech. I'm way ahead in tech at that time. I should have switched to culture at that point, but submitting my game was not on my mind yet, so I keep researching for a while and decide to make the switch to culture when I discover democracy and complete the Statue of Liberty (a second free specialist in all cities, who can resist that ?).

c. 1550 AD. Another civ (I think Isabella) asks me to declare war on Tokugawa, already largely busy with Alexander and Isabella. No risk for me there, I go for it, though I don't intend to make anything of it, it just made good sense diplomacy wise.

c. 1553 AD. Ghuzz revolts and joins my empire. Sorry Caesar.

c. 1568 AD. Alexander makes peace with Tokugawa.

c. 1589 AD. I make peace with Tokugawa too, no sense for me to stay at war if I'm not moving a single unit.

c. 1592 AD. Isabella makes peace with Tokugawa as well. Everyone is at peace now. Wars kept all the other civs in check while I was free to develop my empire, I'm well ahead in score now.

c. 1634 AD. Peace was short, Caesae declares war on Victoria.

c. 1664 AD. Alexander declares war on Tokugawa again. This time I'm not involved. Victoria makes peace with Caesar.

c. 1697 AD. I discover Democracy and instantly build the Statue of Liberty with two great engineers I had saved. My cities are well developped (though Medina, my second cultural city hasn't grown that much), I make the switch to full culture. I have plenty of techs to trade for many turns to come. Time to build missing religious buildings and spread available religions between my cities. I have Hinduism and Islam that I've founded and Taoism and Confuscianism from cities that joined my empire.

c. 1700. Tokugawa signs peace with Alexander after losing one city. Alexander is doing fine on the score thanks to his large territory but a little backward in techs. Tokugawa, Caesar and Victoria are doing fine, but apart from Victoria, are also way behind in techs. Isabella is second to last with a decent territory but a lot of missing techs.

c. 1712 AD. Isabella, always eager for another war of religion picks the poor Incan with two cities left.

c. 1744 AD. Isabella capture the last of the Incan cities. My borders keep expanding, and chances are that city will end up in my empire soon, as well as a small english city to the north left with only two tiles. I'm busy spreading religions for buildings and also on foreign soil for money with my hinduist shrine.

c. 1800 AD. Isabella declares war on Tokugawa. She just won't let go. The former Incan city now a Spanish possession is left with just its central city tile and will probably revolt soon. The english city is holding. In 1842, Isabella makes peace with Tokugawa.

c. 1827 AD. Aryan revolts and joins my empire, as expected. Thanks Isabella! Around that time, I'm spreading Judaism around, which spread to one of my cities.

c. 1834. More warring, Caesar goes for Alexander this time and quickly loses its two cities part of the former incan empire and cornered by the Greek empire. A few turns later, Caesar will capture then lose, then recapture, then lose again one of the Greek Cities.

c. 1842. I get another great prophet and complete the Islamic shrine, more money and a shrine can't hurt my economy and culture.

c. 1847. Tokugawa declares war on Alexander and immediately captures a city. Alexander soon makes peace with Caesar.

c. 1875. At last, all my cities reach legendary status on a "culture bomb". Despite quitting research some 180 years before, I'm still in a good position tech wise. Amazingly enough, the small english city never revolted, yet it had been left with just one tile and well within my own territory for quite some time.

Final score: 12,620 on contender. Had I planned to submit my game, I probably would have switched to full culture much earlier, but oh well, I'm happy with my first GOTM and first cultural victory. That was fun.

Major mistakes include my early tech path (quite messy, didn't go for bronze working despite intending to chop my first workers and settlers), the razing of Badgad, my fourth city, by Barbarians caused by moving my axeman defender out of town for no reason, getting beat to the Great Library while I had a great engineer in stock, and not making enough workers early in the game with all that jungle.

Also, making my first city my great people farm as well as a my wonder factory meant I had little control on what great people I got (and I failed to grow the city fast enough for a great person farm as well). Less great prophets, more early scientists for academies, more great artists would have helped.

On the positive side, I kept all the civs in check through diplomacy (though that was made easy with picking no state religion), and was in control of the game all the way through (but then, it's only on Prince difficulty).

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

If you haven't tweeked with the ini file or autosave options at all, you probably have a save from no more than 5 turns ago that you could load...

But I thought you couldn't go back at all... is that not correct?

 

[schmiddi]

You can, if you are able to reproduce your moves to the point where you "lost" the game.

 

[Doc TK]

I'm at work, so I don't have my exact numbers, but it was domination roughly 1625 and 140K. I milked for about 100 years (maybe a bit more). Given my past track record (the winners tend to score double what I score), I would guess we are going to see some REALLY big scores on this one.

I feel like a major part of doing well in terms of score is timing. If you conquest too much too early you tank research a bit and it slows you down towards getting Biology for milking. If you wait too long, then you don't have enough time to get your cities to grow their population quickly.

In this game, I found myself expanding out to roughly 5 cities + taking one barb city and going all the way to Oracle/CS slingshot before I started killing other Civs. It was definitely slower than when I've attacked in the past (normally I find myself attacking someone with axes early to grab land or do damage), but because most of the other Civs didn't get Feud for quite a while, it was pretty easy to just walk through them. So, basically I did a pretty full on conquest from roughly 100AD - 1500AD, taking out Spain, Greece, Incas, Japan and then a little of England. However, it seemed that in this game, I had to wait a bit longer to get Biology done than in the past when I've conquered a bit slower. I don't remember when it came in but I was definitely sitting there with a bunch of cities/farms ready to grow. Maybe this was because I didn't build a bunch of cottages around my early cities as I've done in the past - plus I was having a tough time getting Scientists. In any case...

Do people going for high scores conquer quickly? If so, how do you keep research rates up to get to Bio?

Or do you wait a bit longer? Do you pause in the middle? How low do you find your research going at times during conquest?

Also, I'd be curious the path you take to Biology and do you grab other techs along the way such as Guilds/Banking/Economics to help the economy?

 

[azzaman333]

But I thought you couldn't go back at all... is that not correct?

You are not allowed to go back to, for example, change the results of a battle but if you have a crash (or intervention from a powerful being (wife)) you can go back to your most recent auto save and try to replicate your moves as much as possible. You can still submit.

 

[malekithe]

For anyone who's curious (or cares), my no-cottage cultural game completed in a 1706 victory. I built not a single cottage and even razed any that wound up in my territory. Victory could have been faster if it weren't for three things:

1. I produced 21 great people (good) but only 12 of them were Great Artists (bad). I spent too much time running Priests, Scientists, and Merchants in my non-culture cities. Eventually each of my second-tier cities spit out a GP that wasn't an artist.
2. I spent way too long in the middle ages at war with stupid little AI's who bit off more than they could chew. As a result, it took way too long to get all my temples and cathedrals built. I should have spent a little more time building up my military before then so they'd leave me alone (I learnt my lesson after that).
3. I really didn't make sufficient use of the Spiritual trait. I found myself spending way too much time in Slavery and rarely moved in to Caste System until the last culture/GP push. I should have been switching between Representation/Caste System/Pacifism and Universal Suffrage/Slavery/Organized Religion for most of the game, but it just didn't happen that way.

Of course, if anyone's interested, I can provide more details on how to play for a cultural victory without a single cottage.

 

[Zaldron]

I'm definitely curious about winning a cultural victory without a single cottage (and quicker than most of my cottage-ful culture wins no less). I imagine it involves early wonders and lots of artists.

I won a domination victory (default class) in about 1750AD for 50000 points, which happened to be my all-time high. Instead of going after Rome early I actually ended up taking out Toku and HC first, and then basically kept the war machine rolling throughout most of the rest of the game. I don't have access to my replay and final save right now, I may try to post more later on.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

You are not allowed to go back to, for example, change the results of a battle but if you have a crash (or intervention from a powerful being (wife)) you can go back to your most recent auto save and try to replicate your moves as much as possible. You can still submit.

Thanks, guys... I learn something new each month. We'll see what month #3 brings!

 

[Murky]

I just finished playing it. Won Domination in 1776 AD for around 49k.

 

[Jove]

I won a diplomatic victory in 1652. Final score: 81406. My best by far far far.
I accidentally replayed about 2-3 turns toward the beginning. Nothing was rendered different, but I don't think I should submit, technically it has a re-load. Can I submit to get the 'adjusted' score? I can let the GPR go, I just want to know if I beat Redbad
Fun game, I ended up with more of a domination-diplo victory. At the end our population was so large it didn't matter how anyone else voted, we were guaranteed the win. That's what I call diplomacy!

 

[sgetsuo]

Only remembered there was a GOTM that i hadn't done yesterday (been a busy month) so had to get a real move on! Yes - I am a slow, slow player

Anyway my PLAN was to go for Conquest, as all my victories end up being by Domination. And also I wnated to have a go at some of that famous score-milking I've been reading so much about. Mooooooooooo!

So.....turns out we have copper! Woohoo JC falls nice and early before he can get his sandalled feet near my territory and then it's war war war from then on. However I am still a builder at heart and despite trying to be more ruthless with my building this time I probably still go overboard with the improvements.

Then came my usual mistake. Around 1830 I got round to checking the victory conditions and AAARGH I was about 2% land area away from Domination! Thought I could bear just one wafer-thin city....but nope. Domination in 1844 with a score of 31521.

Still my best score to date, but I completely failed to watch the victory monitor so didn't exactly meet my pre-game goals.

Always next time!

 

[Redbad]

Can I submit to get the 'adjusted' score? I can let the GPR go, I just want to know if I beat Redbad

You animal, it took me nearly half an hour to look you up in the GPR , place 546. Next time I start from behind.

But don't worry your score is much higher. I stubbornly pursue cultural games untill I can steal an award. There must come a time when all the aces are doing another VC.

You are a bit harsh on yourself by not submitting. You know yourself best if reloading has brought you advantage or not. I myself go once in a while through my latest save, MM and save again. And sometimes later I do the same once more. Though it adds to the reload count, it never got me into trouble.

 

[godotnut]

Diplo in 1592 (sorry Jove). You did beat my score though.

This GOTM was a blast! Thanks again to the GOTM staff.

 

[unblinded1]

Hello!
First time submitting a GOTM was great fun btw... ended up getting 21000 , 1914 domination victory on contender which i was happy about.. i usually play on noble.

The mistakes i made were not using Saladin's skills at all other than switching civics often... i didnt set up a GP farm at all on reflection dont know why... i ended up getting heaps of prophets regardless which were good to the extent that i shrined the 4 or so religions i founded and was fairly wealthy the whole game... but i definitely could have optimised that more.

I entered the 500 ad stage in a fairly comfortable position 6 cities, no iron hooked up but close to being , heaps of axes and having done the old faithful CoL slingshot with oracle (and being first to alphabet) i was leading the tech race... most of the civs were and i am on good terms with all civs except Alex and Issy (we have a history me and issy to say the least

in 709 just about everyone declare on izzy who is buddist at the time and i get invited in, being my most hated neighbour in the game i gleefully join the fray and capture barcelona , tho my advance grinds to a halt while i wait for my cats (10 or so turns away) to catch up... barcelona ends up being the pearl of my future western empire and the site of my forbidden city.
in 1136 i declare on izzy again and in 1292 the ***** bites the big one (seems like way too long, i must be fighting my wars badly)

in the time between i set vicki and hatsumoto (japan) or whatever his name is (sorry ive forgotten) against each other.. everyone loves me , although im troubled by vickis seeming tech advantage so i send a thorn in her side... no cities change hands and after a hundred years of conflict they make peace but the animosity would remain with conflicts occuring occasionally.

1400 A.D Alex is next on the list.. he made the mistake of capturing a nice barb city in the middle of my empire very early on in the game and its now a juicy size 8 ripe for the plucking... i fortify in the west as i dont really have an overwhelming offensive capability (my camels are just rocking up now) and alex is using both pike and elephants... and get into a grinding stalemate which is frustrated by the distance between my good producing cities and the front... i fend off all assaults alex sends however and capture that pesky ex barb city in my territory before suing for peace in 1472.
in 1529 i try again this time with more forces... once again i take heavy casualties, tho i raise knoss and capture sparta... peace in 1556.

Annoyed by the delays in getting troops to the front-lines in the war against Alex, i decide to target a closer more juicy target... i get my best mate J.C to declare on hatsumoto (japan) in 1605 to take the brunt off and in 1607 i join the fray. I capture 5 the romans take 3 and raze 1 and vicki who joined in the mop up nets none..
japan destroyed 1676.

enter a stage of relative peace and building (i probably should have kept the offence up for higher score and earlier ending at this stage).

in 1813 with Sparta dangerously close to flipping back to alex and my people calling for more blood i reinvade alex this time with a fairly sizeable tech lead... its over quickly and Greece crumbles in 1839.

at this stage ive caught up tech wise.. my best mate J.C is friendly with me yet is lagging behind in tech.. vicki is slighty ahead of me tech wise and H.C is on par with me tho seems to have a decent enough military... i bribe j.c with a few techs to invade vicki in 1849 and i follow suit in 1850 the war is relatively painless, even tho my infantry are up against SAM infantry... numbers prevail and vicki goes down in 1887....

at this time im at 60 something percent on world pop and 59 percent on world area....... how to choose last target.. i could invade H.C but he has similar tech to me lagging by 1 or two..

in 1897 the Arabian people bravely decided to "uplift" their friends the Roman by invading and showing them exactly how Arabian culture is superior... bombers, tanks, battleship sea support and SAM infantry are more than a match for Roman Grenadiers and Cavalry and Global Surrender comes in 1914 with Saladin declared Emperor of the World.

embarressingly, the 21k score is my second highest... 36k noble domination non GOTM game is my highest, which i thought was ok since i got Augustus Ceaser ranking but seeing the scores on here i realise just how sad those scores are.... also seeing how quickly some conquests are achieved make me realise that perhaps i rely on cats too much? or am just not pumping out troops fast enough...

should i be whipping instead of chopping? i hate whipping but i have read its definietly the way to go if you have food...

i guess all these questions and more will be answered as i play more... until next GOTM thanks, was good fun..

 

[mushroomshirt]

I scored a domination victory in 1601 with about 57k score.

Real life was catching up to me this month. That combined with some CPU problems led me to rush a bit near the end.

The Good:
1) Conquered with maces and cats. I sometimes tech too far, but I think I did it just right this time.
2) Made it a priority to conquer Kyoto (pyramid city). I LOVE police state. I am thinking next time I will build it myself.

The Bad:
1) built too many wonders. I build Stonehenge and the oracle in mecca. Oracle wouldn't have been so bad, but I used it to get CoL instead of waiting a few turns and using it for CS. All the prophets that came from Stonehenge and oracle went into founding Christianity (not really necessary) and a bunch of shrines (only one was really necessary).
2) attacked too many people early. I stole workers from Japan, Spain and England. Rome sneak-attacked while I was fighting the Incas in my first real war, so no one was my friend but Alexander. I had to attack him when he started in on some of Spain's good cities so I ended up with no friends
3) Was late building the forbidden palace. This would have really helped my economy. I also didn't really have a real commerce city except mecca. To make matters worse, my Christian shrine was in Medina, which was my unit factory so I could have specialized my cities better.

As always - thanks to the GOTM staff!

 

[Jove]

@Redbad: Glad to know I whupped you this time Although, didn't the gotm adopt DaveMcW's system to smooth out the score inequities between the different VC's? I haven't paid attention since my scores are of no official account anyway.
I thought about submitting, but I've already had a game rejected once this year. I got no advantage, but I did (accidentally) replay a few turns, which is different from what you're describing. I'll be more careful next time.
@Godotnut: nice job. Mind if I ask when and how you learned Education? I think that one slowed me down more than anything.

 

[AlanH]

@Jove: There's no score adjustment in Civ4 games. Your registered score is the final Firaxis score as stated in your personal hall of fame.