GOTM 08 - final spoiler (free-for-all)

Thrallia said:
depressing...I had written out a nice, long spoiler for my end game...but then my internet crashed and I lost my spoiler...so I'll try to rewrite it later.
For now I'll just say I won a diplomatic victory in 1972, 110 years after I was first given the vote(and which I was only 31 votes short on at that time)

My adventurer adjusted score was 11,385 points. And it looks like right now I've got the fasted Diplo victory(the only diplo victory?). If I'd won the first time, I think I would have a good chance of keeping that title, seeing what the dates are thus far, but I doubt I'll beat many people in time as more and more people send in results.

I have not written up yet but have already submitted. Details will come later, but I can tell you that 110 years earlier than 1972 would still be significantly later than my diplomatic victory, and I messed up the endgame considerably, costing myself at least 30, and I am far from a top player, so I expect the fastest diplo to come in before 1800.


Edit: I wrote the above before readin Ungy's post, but I guess that confirms my thoughts. 1740 seems like a pretty good time to me, and I think it has a shot at standing up depending on how many of the pros opt for diplo.
 
Lost to Vicky after she launched in 2023.

I had been aiming for a diplomatic victory, and came very very close in the late 1900's to acheiving it, but I just couldn't sway the votes enough in my favor.

My last decision was whether to start a war against a superior Izzy, who was my competitor for diplo, or start a war against a superior Vicky, who was leading the space race.

I went with Izzy and sent my Panzers across. Took two cities and then hit a stalemate, unable to take any more, but managing to defend the two new cities. Unfortunately, my war with Izzy swayed another voter to abstain, so the pop I made up with the two new cities was not even close to recouping the lost votes.

I'm at Prince level, and only recently arrived there so I'm happy with my effort on GOTM8 as I've never played this high. (I'm dreading GOTM9!!) I was expecting to lose well before the 1700's, but started to see faint glimers of lasting till 2050. Still the last turns were taking ages, and I was not enjoying my stalemate with Izzy while she refused to talk, so I was kind glad that Vicky won when she did.

Many lessons learnt.
 
Jastrow said:
I have not written up yet but have already submitted. Details will come later, but I can tell you that 110 years earlier than 1972 would still be significantly later than my diplomatic victory, and I messed up the endgame considerably, costing myself at least 30, and I am far from a top player, so I expect the fastest diplo to come in before 1800.


Edit: I wrote the above before readin Ungy's post, but I guess that confirms my thoughts. 1740 seems like a pretty good time to me, and I think it has a shot at standing up depending on how many of the pros opt for diplo.

yeah, I figured that most of the better players haven't finished yet, and so I'm comparing myself to the others who are for the most part just happy to win(I was very happy I actually won this time, although now that means I can't use adventurer anymore except on Emperor or higher).

Still...1700s+ for fastest diplo victory is considerably later than it has been lately, so I'm pretty happy with my final date, despite being disappointed in taking so long to actually get it. It looks like I'm in the running for lowest score for a diplo victory now though ;)

edit: anyone have any tips on how to get more votes next time? I had Cyrus and Vicky voting for me, Cathy and Izzy abstaining, and George voting for himself. I only won when I gifted 4 cities and 2.5 million population to Cathy so I'd be against her instead of George, then I had George, Cyrus, and Vicky voting for me, with Cathy voting for herself and Izzy abstaining.
 
My first spolier is the last post in this thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=176698. A quick recap is that I played for a space race victory from the start, and was entirely peaceful prior to 500 AD, building several wonders and a good, strong economy.

I had initially planned on being friendly with Washington. I figured that a war would slow down my research, and I could always expand onto uninhabited islands. But by 700 AD or so I realized that: 1] he had no metal (I’d locked up the Iron in the far SE of our continent); 2] my economy was running so strong that I could fund guns AND butter. So I built up a modest number of extra Macemen and Cats, and attacked in 1000 AD. He had a few Longbows but was really no competition. The war lasted until 1450 AD, but only because I built hardly any troops beyond my initial army. When I ended it I’d captured all of the American cities worth having. A subsequent war wiped Washington off the continent, although he survived until the end of the game on a distant island.

As I’d hoped, I was able to keep my economy and building going strong despite the war. I discovered Liberalism first, and went to Free Religion for the rest of the game. With the help of the free tech I quickly made my way to Constitution, and switched to Republic for most of the rest of the game as well. Meanwhile, I’d built a city on the island to the SW to get Incense and Stone. I ignored the numerous Barbarian cities scattered around as more trouble and maintenance than they were worth. Many survived to the end of the game.

By 1600 AD I had the largest civilization in size and population and was the most advanced technologically. I was well into the Industrial Age and about to finish the Statue of Liberty. England was the only civ that knew any techs I didn’t have. My cities were very large and well-developed, with lots of buildings and specialists. Combined with Republic those specialists were boosting my already strong research rate to an exceptionally high level. Berlin was an all-around powerhouse. Thanks to an Academy, the National Epic, lots of Wonders, and Bureaucracy (which I ran all game) it was my top science, money, and GP city--AND my best production city for much of the game.

My military was only middle of the road, though. I guess Russia saw that as an opportunity, because around 1770 they sent a few Galleons of Grenadiers to attack me. I was fortunate to see them coming and rally my troops to Cologne. I nearly lost that city but after stopping the initial assault I easily mopped them up and never saw another serious threat.

When I saw Cathy coming, I decided to make sure the other major power, England, would leave me alone by bribing them to attack their hated enemy: Japan. I had to give them Physics to do it and I was pretty unhappy about it. But it turned out to be a great move, because they stayed at war for the remaining 150 years of the game! It was a dull war, mind you. They never captured any of each others cities. But Vicky had been my one and only technological competitor, and now she was otherwise occupied. Later I bribed Cathy to attack the remnants of the Americans with similar results.

By 1800 AD things had reached the cake-walk stage. I’d beelined all the way to Computers and was building Laboratories in most of my cities to speed research even more. Wonders like Broadway and the Eiffel Tower were boosting my already enormous happiness resources, and most of my 10 primary cities were over size 15. The Apollo Program was just about to be started.

I decided to go straight from Rocketry to Fusion. I thought this would leave me in a position where I could tech trade for industrial and early modern techs I’d bypassed, or maybe use the Internet to acquire them. But I guess I’d underestimated just how much stronger my research was than everyone else's. Victoria was the only other leader who’d even made it Railroads by the time I had acquired Fusion. And she wouldn’t trade. Getting my railroads, factories, and access to aluminum earlier probably would have helped me finish my space ship a few turns faster. As it was, the Apollo Program took 30+ turns to build. I finished the Space Elevator only a few turns later, in 1898.

After that I switched to Universal Suffrage and cash-rushed some factories. I then finished my space ship in about 20 turns. I was on my way to Alpha Centauri in 1928. I also popped out the Internet, Rock n’ Roll, and the Manhattan Project, just because I could. Most of my cities were at or around 20 in size.

England--the only other civ that even had knowledge of Rocketry--finished their Apollo Project in 1929.

I've been playing Monarch games for awhile now with pretty good success. But this was far and away my best non-military win so far, with a final score adjusted score of 18,631. I think the excellent starting location of Berlin was a big help. So were the early wonders that I targeted. And controling a good-sized continent on a map where most civs only had 3 or 4 cities on their starting island was also very nice.
 
Thrallia said:
edit: anyone have any tips on how to get more votes next time? I had Cyrus and Vicky voting for me, Cathy and Izzy abstaining, and George voting for himself. I only won when I gifted 4 cities and 2.5 million population to Cathy so I'd be against her instead of George, then I had George, Cyrus, and Vicky voting for me, with Cathy voting for herself and Izzy abstaining.

I did it the cheeky way :cool: ... Have over 62% of the world population :smug: , and thus enough votes to controle the election:devil: . I was unable to get anyone to vote for me despite having 4 civs (including my opponent, so 3 really) pleased with me, two of which were annoyed with my opponent. In fact, this is why I screwed up my endgame. I though I could get at least one of these to vote for me, so that I would win with just under 60% of the population. Had I realized that would not happened, I would have :ar15: one of the lesser powers (toku) down a bit, to lower the world population and get myself over 62%. I ended up doing that, but only after two elections had passed, thus delaying my victory about 30 years :suicide:
 
Well, just to conclude my failed builder experiment (see this post) I did manage to eek out a diplomatic victory in 1944 with about 24k in score. I'm actually pleasantly surprised I managed to score that high.

In any case for those who are interested I "recovered" from my failed builder strategy by taking Washington down to just a few cities and suing for peace for a few techs. One nice thing about my failed CS slingshot is that I was able to found Confucianism. As a result, Washington and Toku converted to Confucianism with no help from me. I gave Cyrus a tech in exchange for a small amount of gold and converted him over to Confucianism, too. My plan was to cultivate him as a friend for the vote. He was 4th in score behind me, Vicky and Catherine.

Cyrus and I wiped out Toku together, boosting our relations. Then I pushed Washington off of the continent (this cost me another point with Cyrus - oh well). Meanwhile I beelined for the UN. I scored the UN sometime in the early 1800s, but Cyrus wouldn't vote for me! He was voting for Vicky who was running representation (I was running universal suffrage) and who he also had a defensive pact with (he had one with me too). Ugh!

At this point I had a choice. There was no way I was going to make a timely domination victory. I figured I could take out the technologically backwards Isabella, but at the risk of pissing off Cyrus and being stuck in the middle of not being able to get domination and not being able to get a UN vote. Maybe I could have taken out Catherine, too but I figured it would be a long slog.

In retrospect I probably could have scored higher doing this, but I must admit my heart wasn't in this GOTM after my poor pregame. I just couldn't bring myself to bring the full modern war machine to bear with all of the management & planning that entails.

In any case, I realized since Cyrus was so small his votes wouldn't quite put me over the top even if he did vote for me. I decided to give up on diplomacy and go for the space race. I had a good tech infrastructure set up from my mass media beeline, so I just changed it into a computers / rocketry / fusion beeline and went at it.

For those that are still reading my spoiler, you may ask, "How did you get a diplomatic victory, mushroomshirt? You just said you were going for space race". Well I had given up on diplomacy, so whenever the votes came up, I passed resolutions on single currency and foreign trade routes, figuring they would boost my science. After I was done with those votes I went back to voting on the diplomatic victory. After this time magically Cyrus had somehow decided to vote for me! (I think Vicky may have switched to universal suffrage, where I had switched back to representation since I had the statue of liberty). Cyrus' votes still weren't enough to put me over the top, so I changed all of my cities that I could to "max food" and the next time the vote came up that had kicked my population high enough that I was able to pull of the diplomacy victory.

Not one of my shining games, but a win is a win. In any case, I look forward to the next GOTM where I can get back to warmongering.

PS - interestingly i popped astronomy from a hut! Sounds good right? Wrong! It obsoleted the colossus way before I was ready and put a big dent in my economy.
 
mushroomshirt said:
PS - interestingly i popped astronomy from a hut! Sounds good right? Wrong! It obsoleted the colossus way before I was ready and put a big dent in my economy.


That happened to me too! In my case, it was not really bad, since I was less than 20 turns from wanting to do it myself, but it was a rather rude awakeniong when it happened.
 
So, how about the jump to Emperor next month? I'm barely comfortable at Monarch. Time for some Emperor practice games, methinks.

Suggestions for map settings and leader that might give me a chance at Emperor?
 
Markus5 said:
So, how about the jump to Emperor next month? I'm barely comfortable at Monarch. Time for some Emperor practice games, methinks.

Suggestions for map settings and leader that might give me a chance at Emperor?

I think it's doable but it will require a lot of practice games to get comfortable with whatever leader is choosen by the Gotm staff.

Playing a 1st choice leader won't help much if you're forced to play a different one.
 
Murky said:
I think it's doable but it will require a lot of practice games to get comfortable with whatever leader is choosen by the Gotm staff.

Playing a 1st choice leader won't help much if you're forced to play a different one.


I don't know. Even playing favorite leaders like Catherine or Liz, I still lose most emperor games. In fact, the last emperor GOTM was my only emperor win ever. I probably would have surrendered in a non-GOTM game but kept playing to submit my defeat and the AI never mercy killed me.

I guess I'm stuck on the jump from Monarch to Emperor since I now win almost all games at Monarch. I think a very good GOTM starting position will be my only hope.
:undecide:
 
I'll use the HOF mapfinder to get a good start on an Emperor game with a random leader on a factal map at normal speed and see how it goes.
 
RobertTheBruce said:
I don't know. Even playing favorite leaders like Catherine or Liz, I still lose most emperor games. In fact, the last emperor GOTM was my only emperor win ever. I probably would have surrendered in a non-GOTM game but kept playing to submit my defeat and the AI never mercy killed me.

I guess I'm stuck on the jump from Monarch to Emperor since I now win almost all games at Monarch. I think a very good GOTM starting position will be my only hope.
:undecide:

Prior to the GoTM8, I had never won a Monarch game.

By doing a lot of practice games, I learned a lot and so as was able to make the jump.

What one player can do another can do.
 
This was my first monarch win ever, but I had the adventurer bonus...I doubt I would win another monarch game without some bonus at this time since I'm still having issues at least half the time on Prince.

That said though, I did much better on the Emperor GOTM than I did in the Monarch GOTM that came right before it(GOTM 3 and 4), so perhaps if the next one is Emperor I'll have some semblence of a chance, given another bonus...I'd personally prefer another Monarch GOTM, so I can try out a monarch game on contender.
 
Vynd said:
I believe it is impossible for religions to spread for free into cities that already have a religion in them. (If it isn't impossible, it must be very rare.) After your cities have an initial religion in them, your only hope of getting more religions is through missionaries, or by taking cities with other religions by force.

Hmmm. This means that you have to delay spreading your state religion, thereby diminishing the effect of organised religion. Ho, hum. Choices, choices!

Vynd said:
Under the circumstances you've described, it might have been a good idea to capture a city or three that contained religions you didn't have. On this map you probably could have found a relatively isolated city beloning to a weaker empire that you could grab with a small force. From there you could spread the religion to the rest of your empire.

This is a neat idea of course. It does go against the grain though if you are looking for a quiet peaceful cultural win!
 
I believe it is impossible for religions to spread for free into cities that already have a religion in them. (If it isn't impossible, it must be very rare.) After your cities have an initial religion in them, your only hope of getting more religions is through missionaries, or by taking cities with other religions by force.

I promise this isn't true. They spread to cities with religions all the time. It's a little harder, but it happens. A strong netword of roads and all open borders helps. They don't tend to spread to cities with religion until later in the game, but one or more have spread to cities with one, two, and even three religions in all of my Deity HOF games.

Good luck!
 
godotnut said:
I promise this isn't true. They spread to cities with religions all the time. It's a little harder, but it happens. A strong netword of roads and all open borders helps. They don't tend to spread to cities with religion until later in the game, but one or more have spread to cities with one, two, and even three religions in all of my Deity HOF games.

Good luck!

This is true except when you are using the Theocracy civic. I have seen a religion spread to a city that already had 2 previous religions. The city was in the middle of a vast trade network toward the end of my game.
 
Markus5 said:
So, how about the jump to Emperor next month? I'm barely comfortable at Monarch. Time for some Emperor practice games, methinks.

Suggestions for map settings and leader that might give me a chance at Emperor?
There is a cunning plan.

WIth the imminent release of warlords, we will be able to have two games running concurrently, with two diverse difficulty levels.

As such, I plan on having an emperor game next month for vanilla, but probably have a warlords game on (say) noble starting on the 15th.


BTW - its is good to see a significant number of people posting that they recorded their first monarch wins! :goodjob:
 
In my game I came across something that struck me as odd. At one point, I had ships loaded up and observing every Japanese city in anticipation of war. The best defense Toku could muster at the time were a few archers and I was ready to land knights. Immediately after declaring war, I saw every single archer in his empire upgrade to a longbowman, slowing me down considerably. Toku had no money at all in his treasury, and neither did anyone else in the world except myself, so he couldn't have traded for cash even if he had any tech to trade (which I doubt). So how was he able to upgrade every single archer in the space of a single turn? Do AI troops everywhere get immediately upgraded with the appropriate tech advance?
 
ainwood said:
There is a cunning plan.

WIth the imminent release of warlords, we will be able to have two games running concurrently, with two diverse difficulty levels.

As such, I plan on having an emperor game next month for vanilla, but probably have a warlords game on (say) noble starting on the 15th.


BTW - its is good to see a significant number of people posting that they recorded their first monarch wins! :goodjob:

dang...then I guess I gotta spring for Warlords on release then :crazyeye: :lol:
 
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