GOTM 08 - final spoiler (free-for-all)

[DynamicSpirit]

I would have thought that the crowded old world continent would make it a perilious place to be at Emperor levels. But, the AI doesn't know that its a Terra map and you can exploit that, so maybe there is hope.

I think I'll try a few test games at Highlands. I've played Terra enough to grok, but never tried Highlands.

You would've thought that, and it probably is perilous if you don't do lots of early military. But after reading Cas's post I tried it last night and agree with Cas that the particular combination of Terra/Huayna Capac is pretty easy.

Tried a game last night with Mansa Musa - fairly similar and it was easy because of his skirmishers: Research archery and you can go early worker stealing, enjoying that there are so many civs within easy reach and their archers are no match for your skirmishers. In my 'best' game I managed to steal a worker each from no less than five of my neighbours. And then I left my skirmishers around to make sure the nearby ones couldn't hook up any copper or horses etc. while I researched up to swordsmen. I abandoned the game after a couple of hours, but it was obvious where it was heading

So perhaps Terra/Mansa isn't a good idea for a GOTM Ditto for Huayna.

(edited: original post mixed up HC and MM)

 

[malekithe]

You would've thought that, and it probably is perilous if you don't do lots of early military. But after reading Cas's post I tried it last night and agree with Cas that the particular combination of Terra/Huayna Capac is pretty easy. The main reason is his skirmishers: Research archery and you can go early worker stealing, enjoying that there are so many civs within easy reach and their archers are no match for your skirmishers. In my 'best' game I managed to steal a worker each from no less than five of my neighbours. And then I left my skirmishers around to make sure the nearby ones couldn't hook up any copper or horses etc. while I researched up to swordsmen. I abandoned the game after a couple of hours, but it was obvious where it was heading

So perhaps Terra/Huayna isn't a good idea for a GOTM

Um, could it be that you were playing Mansa Musa, not Huayna Capac?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Um, could it be that you were playing Mansa Musa, not Huayna Capac?

Errr - ummmm - *embarrassed* *thinks rapidly*. Well done, you passed the test and spotted my deliberate mistake.

Yes it would've been Mansa Musa.

Edited that post so it's not confusing now.

 

[cas]

I would have thought that the crowded old world continent would make it a perilious place to be at Emperor levels. But, the AI doesn't know that its a Terra map and you can exploit that, so maybe there is hope.

Quechua (UU for Inca) same as warrior cost, starts with +100% against archers and combat1 promo since Huayna is aggressive. You find the closest opponents early on Terra. Worker steal & park 2 Quechua (would probably work with one Quechua on a forest/hill or forest/river cross) next to AI capital. AI will produce nothing but archers, attacking your fortified Quechua from the city and losing unless you are REALLY unlucky on a roll. If you survive a couple of times, the odds are even more in your favor with a promotion or two.

I think you could cripple two AI like this on a Emporer/Terra map before they were able to get a settler out...also providing you with two workers and room to expand. Research mining,BW or maybe wheel,pottery and you start with agriculture so the workers won't run out of stuff to do. If you concentrated on one AI and built a half-price barracks, you could probably take out one AI and use their capital as your second city without producing a settler.

Just an opinion after a few test games. A more experienced player might have a better strategy.

edit: as noted by Dynamic(edit: DynamicSpirit), similar strategy also works with Mansa Musa although I think Inca is even easier.

cas

 

[DynamicSpirit]

edit: as noted by Dynamic, similar strategy also works with Mansa Musa although I think Inca is even easier.
cas

btw I'm pretty sure there's another user called Dynamic, so shortening my name is possibly not a good idea

 

[regoarrarr]

I won by space in 1927. I see that's the fastest space victory posted so far, but I'd be really surprised if there aren't some faster ones eventually.

I didn't think that it was that good of a time - as comparison, I launched in 1864 in GOTM 3, which was also a Monarch game (Tokugawa, inland sea).

I got the CS slingshot in 1460 I believe. I know I saw in the first spoiler thread that some folks had an AI build the Oracle in the 1800s! I'd be interested if any of them are here and have finished their game, which of the AIs built it, and anything that they were able to figure out from the replay why it fell so early.

I guess it's got to be something like the butterfly effect - a small change in the player's strategy changes some minor thing which prioritizes the Oracle for one of the AIs.

Anyone?

 

[Thrallia]

It's probably kinda a kick in the face for some people...I got the Oracle in 1080BC, and I only built it then because the AI hadn't built it yet and I figured I could get some cash out of it...I didn't really expect to build it, nor did I plan for building it...I got it and Stonehenge as an afterthought, both in 1080BC.

 

[armstrong]

I got the CS slingshot in 1460 I believe. I know I saw in the first spoiler thread that some folks had an AI build the Oracle in the 1800s! I'd be interested if any of them are here and have finished their game, which of the AIs built it, and anything that they were able to figure out from the replay why it fell so early.

Well, I think the reason why the AI's were so wonder-happy in most of the games here is because (except for ourselves and Washington) everyone started on relatively small islands. Since the AI doesn't realize it's on an Archipelago it doesn't prioritize Sailing like human players. That means, once the AI settles their little land, they end up without much useful things to build except for wonders.

In particular, we had Cathy with Marble on a peninsula with really only room for one more good city (but that city had two gold mines.) She's the one getting that early Oracle I'm wagering.

I know in my game I got the Oracle in 1720 BC. Vicky had both Stonehenge and the Pyramids by 1000 BC while Cathy built the Great Library in 125 AD (she actually researched Alphabet & Literature herself in the BC's!)

 

[Thrallia]

I think that since so many people missed out on the CS slingshot because of early wonder building, we may see more diverse strategies next GOTM to avoid that trap.

 

[Vynd]

I won by space in 1927. I see that's the fastest space victory posted so far, but I'd be really surprised if there aren't some faster ones eventually.

Ack! One turn faster than my spaceship. Well done.

 

[regoarrarr]

Well, I think the reason why the AI's were so wonder-happy in most of the games here is because (except for ourselves and Washington) everyone started on relatively small islands. Since the AI doesn't realize it's on an Archipelago it doesn't prioritize Sailing like human players. That means, once the AI settles their little land, they end up without much useful things to build except for wonders.

Sure - I understand that. But why, on the same map with the same AIs, did one Cathy build the Oracle in 1840, and another Cathy not build it even as late as 1080? What made the difference?

I realize we may never know, but I'm just curious

 

[Markus5]

Sure - I understand that. But why, on the same map with the same AIs, did one Cathy build the Oracle in 1840, and another Cathy not build it even as late as 1080? What made the difference?

I realize we may never know, but I'm just curious

It seems like the AI is an opportunistic and reactionary builder. It doesn't plan too much to speed up builds. So, if the set of conditions are right, the Oracle might get started in a hammer-rich city, and then (by chance) a couple of forests get cleared for farms... Early Oracle!

You see this AI behavior all the time. Ships are built in an ice bound ocean. Why? The AI has rules... If the city is on the ocean, build a ship.

 

[Markus5]

Quechua (UU for Inca) same as warrior cost, starts with +100% against archers and combat1 promo since Huayna is aggressive. You find the closest opponents early on Terra. Worker steal & park 2 Quechua (would probably work with one Quechua on a forest/hill or forest/river cross) next to AI capital. AI will produce nothing but archers, attacking your fortified Quechua from the city and losing unless you are REALLY unlucky on a roll. If you survive a couple of times, the odds are even more in your favor with a promotion or two.

I think you could cripple two AI like this on a Emporer/Terra map before they were able to get a settler out...also providing you with two workers and room to expand. Research mining,BW or maybe wheel,pottery and you start with agriculture so the workers won't run out of stuff to do. If you concentrated on one AI and built a half-price barracks, you could probably take out one AI and use their capital as your second city without producing a settler.

Makes sense. I might try that. I keep forgetting about aggressive early strategies.

I've been testing Inca on a Highlands map. I like it. My capital das 3 gold hills (desert), 6 flood plains and wheat. Health is a bit of a problem with the flood plains, but that is what the whip is for. The Quechas are nice as an early unit. I'll need a stack of them to remove that barb city on a hill that is much too close to me...

 

[BSmith1068]

I got the CS slingshot in 1460 I believe. I know I saw in the first spoiler thread that some folks had an AI build the Oracle in the 1800s! I'd be interested if any of them are here and have finished their game, which of the AIs built it, and anything that they were able to figure out from the replay why it fell so early.

here is what I wrote on Page 3:

I missed out on the CS Slingshot - Oracle was founded by the Russians in 1840BC. 6 turns before I would have had it.

It seems that Cathy was quite wonder happy. She not only beat me to the Oracle, but also had the Parthenon, Pyramids, and one other early wonder that I can't recall at the moment. (Stonehenge maybe?)

Probably for the reasons armstrong mentions above...

 

[armstrong]

Sure - I understand that. But why, on the same map with the same AIs, did one Cathy build the Oracle in 1840, and another Cathy not build it even as late as 1080? What made the difference?

I realize we may never know, but I'm just curious

Yep, we'll never know all the little butterflies One thing I keep thinking, though - because the AI doesn't change their build patterns, once they start a wonder they're committed to it.

Here's a (admittedly completely made-up ) example of how this could happen:

Let's say the year is 2800 BC, and Cathy can decide to research either Priesthood (which is recommended for Religion) or Masonry (recommended for Economy, to hook up her Marble.) The AI picks one, but it is somewhat random, either due to a "coin-flip" or other factors, such as if Cathy founded a religion or not. So, in one world, Cathy A researches Priesthood, and in another Cathy B researches Masonry.

Once these techs come in, Cathy finishes a build in her capital and decides that there's not much good land to expand her civ, so she instead will construct a wonder. Cathy A starts on the Oracle. Cathy B starts on the Pyramids.

Now, Cathy B is committed to the Pyramids until she completes them after a long period of time (probably 30+ turns without stone) or someone else builds them first. Even if she researched Priesthood immediately next, she's no threat to build the Oracle before 1000 BC, giving the human player (and other AI's) plenty of time to build it.

Cathy A, on the other hand, will build a ridiculously early Oracle and frusterate many human players.

I'm guessing something like that happened in my game - Cathy chased the Pyramids (or maybe she kept chasing Stonehenge, Oracle, Great Lighthouse, Pyramids, etc, getting constantly foiled by Vicky & I), but she was able to use the money from those failed wonder builds to increase her research, and thus get early Alphabet+Literature and build that 125 AD Great Library.

I'm actually curious about this, I might go back and see if I have any early saves to check out the world builder and see what I can find...

 

[Jastrow]

I'm actually curious about this, I might go back and see if I have any early saves to check out the world builder and see what I can find...

....Locked assets.... Cant use worldbuilder in your investigations, which will make figuring it out ALOT of guesswork.

 

[Junuxx]

Vicky got a diplomatic victory in 2040AD. Diplo was what I had been after for over a hundred years, but I just couldn't get the votes. I had expected Cathy to be my opponent in the UN, which would've been easier. Washington was also very close to completing his spaceship btw.

Learned a lot. And had fun playing, too

 

[moggydave]

First Spoiler-- http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...=176698&page=5 post #100

Second Spoiler-- http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=176988 post#12

Space Ship 1984AD

Well this was a game of first for me:
-First GOTM
-First real attempt at Monarch
-First real attempt a anything above Noble
-First GOTM win
-First Monarch win
-First higher than Noble win
-First ever Space Ship win
-First time I've been suprised that I won
-Most satisfied I've ever been with my game.
-First I was ever decisive and concise about my plan and the way I played it (up to modern age)

I'm dead impressed with my performance even though it was advnturer and resources were abundant. I managed to totally avoid war and religion (virtually) throughout the game.

For once I was very decisive in my play and I got ahead in the early/middle game. My research strat worked along with a late introduction of some cottage spamming.

However my indesisiveness which so often ruins my games almost got me again in the modern age. Despite my tech and score lead I was still unsure f how I was actually going to win the game. I decided space race, which I've never attempted before and about halfway in (around 1920) my inexperience in this showed when I started worrying if I would complete before 2050 (it now seems so silly). Thus I started looking towards diplo and time victory which both required a large military build up. This led to a spread out of research and production to get techs and units/buildings that suited the different types of victory. I lost my tech lead around 1950 and my diplomacy had not got me as may friends as I thought. All this time I had Cologne (production city) building the space ship and it took me a while to realise that I could get spaceship and that I had no chance winning a diplo. Thus Cologne got me over the line and I got back on tech again 2 turns before the end with completion of he internet in Berlin which I had forgotton I was building.

This lead to perhaps the biggest smile on my face whilst playing civ for a long time and actually the biggest smile on y face for a few days now.

 

[FoolontheHill]

First non SG Monarch game....

Many miscalculations starting with trying to found my own religions to go for cultural victory.

Washington launched in 1990. My third city was set to go legendary in 1993.

 

[The-Hawk]

I got the CS slingshot in 1460 I believe. I know I saw in the first spoiler thread that some folks had an AI build the Oracle in the 1800s! I'd be interested if any of them are here and have finished their game, which of the AIs built it, and anything that they were able to figure out from the replay why it fell so early.

I said in my first post I was beaten to Oracle around 1520 BC: first spoiler post

After I finished, I looking at the log... was actually 1560 BC. So I was one of those who spun wheels chasing CS slingshot. In hindsight, I wish the AI had built the Oracle in the 1800's, I would have wasted less time going for it!

As I said in the first post, around 300 AD I decided to change strategy and go for spaceship (had been planning to go for domination). From that point on, I felt like I played well... couple of small mistakes, but I think a very fast rush to a launch in 1916. However, between the futile attempt at the CS slingshot and my early focus on domination, I lost lots of time in the beginning. I expect the winning launch will be at least 100 years before mine.