GOTM 09: Pre-Game discussion

Call me a chicken, but I will pursue neither a worker steal / quechua rush nor an early religion / oracle slingshot in this (my first) GOTM. On Emperor and continents, I think both strategies are too much of a gambit – and an unnecessary one, in the face of such a strong starting position and trait-combo. Here's why:

1. Agressive starts carry a double risk: For one, things may not go as planned (no worker to grab, cities on hills, bad die rolls, barbs showing up). Obviously, you can just bring a bigger stack, but all those turns spent building Quechuas are ressources not invested in future growth. More importantly though, you´ll make longtime enemies of valuable early trading partners – and on this maptype, that`s quite a handicap. You may well dominate your continent, but to win the game, you need be stronger than the guys on the other one as well. And if they are harmoniously researching and trading while you are bashing each other's heads in, you will be locked out of the tech-trading game when the time caravels show up.

2. With religious starts, there's similar concerns. The odds of getting a religion or wonder are highly volatile and not knowable. Ressources invested in failed grabs are largely sunk. As for founding religions, chances are that you make as many friends with them as you make enemies. With gold and wine nearby, I think happiness is not going to be a concern in this game, and as for shrine income, I'd rather conquer one later in the game than go through the pains of building it.

Instead, consider this conservative builder start. Get a worker first. Research Mining. Build an fp-farm, then mine the gold, building Quechuas as you grow to three. Already, you are strong in every department: growth, economy, military. Research BW, chop out a settler (hopefully to settle nearby bronze, if any). Next up: Wheel, pottery and writing. Whip a granary, then a library (great scientist>academy) in your capital, an obelisk in the other city; then get out more workers or Quechuas as needed. Explore and fogbust, connect your cities with a road, get down some cottages and just grow. Sign open borders as soon as you can, trade ressources early, make some friends.

This way, you are insured against almost every risk and flexible enough to (re-)act as the situation dictates. Many civs on your continent? Go for early alphabet and get on top of the trading game. Military opportunity or threat? Get your third city near a strategic ressource and prepare for battle. Room to grow? Grab the key sites with chops and whips and techtrade for economy improvements.

In general, I find I fare much better on emperor / continents by playing it safe until the mid-game. Invest in future growth, stay on top of tech, know as much of the world as possible (early caravels, as Blubmuz said, are a must), use military to keep the strong in check, but stay on good terms with the key AIs. Don't commit to a strategy until you know what victory types are achievable. This is probably not going to win me the tournament, but – I hope – it will at least keep me from losing the game.

Off to play now. Everyone, good luck! :king:

J.
 
This is my first GOTM. I don't play a lot, and have never really advanced past warlord, but I decided to try this one anyway despite being emporer. Im actually doing a lot better than I thought I would, but I can see that there is no way im going to be able to win (in 1600s now, and beginning to fall behind).

My question is, do I have to win to submit my game? Or is the score the only thing that matters, win or lose?
 
Malodium said:
This is my first GOTM. I don't play a lot, and have never really advanced past warlord, but I decided to try this one anyway despite being emporer. Im actually doing a lot better than I thought I would, but I can see that there is no way im going to be able to win (in 1600s now, and beginning to fall behind).

My question is, do I have to win to submit my game? Or is the score the only thing that matters, win or lose?

You can submit a loss if you want.
 
Malodium said:
-- --- --

My question is, do I have to win to submit my game? Or is the score the only thing that matters, win or lose?

You can submit both wins and losses.

What you can't do is disclose any details at all about the game outside the spoiler threads... How the GOTM is proceeding for you is information too.
 
I don't think this qualifies as much of a spoiler. Moderator Action: Don't post in the pre-game or saves available threads once you have opened the start file. Simple rule.

I know I could have submitted my loss, but I don't have the save game.
Tough!

I restarted the game and am having a good time. ....

Can I resubmit with a note saying my 2nd attempt, just to see my relative placement?
NO.
Can I post in the spoiler threads?
Don't see why not as long as you obey the rules, unlike your behaviour here.
 
With each passing day I lose much hope for the future of humanity. Everytime I think I have been baffled beyond the pale, something else happens to push the boundaries of stupefication beyond anything even Johnny Knoxville could tap into.

Could someone pass me the Jim Jones Grape Kool-aid, please.
 
Stormreaver said:
You can submit both wins and losses.

What you can't do is disclose any details at all about the game outside the spoiler threads... How the GOTM is proceeding for you is information too.


Ok cool thanks
 
Can I resubmit with a note saying my 2nd attempt, just to see my relative placement?
Can I post in the spoiler threads?

You're not allowed to submit your second game, but you can compare your final score in that game with those in the table when results are published, scores displayed for GOTM are those you see within the game when you win or lose.

And I see no reason why you couldn't post in the spoiler threads.
 
Equendil said:
And I see no reason why you couldn't post in the spoiler threads.


Posting info gleaned from multiple games seems a bit on the government cheese side of life, but keeping it confined to the original game seems more in line with the spirit of the game.
 
strollen said:
I lost my initial game, and my capital got taken by the barbs. I don't think this qualifies as much of a spoiler.

I quit the game (with a single city not much hope). I know I could have submitted my loss, but I don't have the save game.

I restarted the game and am having a good time. I realize I am not eligible for the $10 million grand prize, but what are my options for participating in the
COTM?

Can I resubmit with a note saying my 2nd attempt, just to see my relative placement?
Can I post in the spoiler threads?

There's no shame in losing on this high of difficulty, especially when there are barbarian hordes to contend with. Next time, save it and submit. It's atleast worth taking a look at to see what went wrong.
 
Equendil said:
You're not allowed to submit your second game, but you can compare your final score in that game with those in the table when results are published, scores displayed for GOTM are those you see within the game when you win or lose.

And I see no reason why you couldn't post in the spoiler threads.

To add to that. If you hover your mouse over your score in the area in the bottom right of the main window, where it shows the scores of all the players, at any time during the game, it tells you what your final score for the rankings would be if you won on that turn. I'm not sure how to tell what your score would be if you lost (or retired) on that turn.
 
Murky said:
There's no shame in losing on this high of difficulty, especially when there are barbarian hordes to contend with.


Why would there be any shame at losing at any level of difficulty?

Generating self esteem from a game is a bellweather of an unstable, "love me daddy" type of mindset. Nothing creates greater pathos than those people thinking success at a computer game has any real meaning in the world at large.

Of course, the only reason I make this argument is because I suck. Now, if I were any good.....:lol:
 
strollen said:
I restarted the game and am having a good time. I realize I am not eligible for the $10 million grand prize, but what are my options for participating in the
COTM?

Obvious option is: You join in next month's GOTM, and don't lose your first save game. ;)

strollen said:
Can I resubmit with a note saying my 2nd attempt, just to see my relative placement?

No. You can only submit your first attempt. Containing whatever mistakes you made (and believe me, I've done some horrendous wish-I-hadn't-done-that things in GOTMs - but the rule of the GOTM is you have to carry on as best you can). Re-attempts, or anything where you reloaded to replay even so much as a single turn, absolutely can't be submitted.
 
drkodos said:
Why would there be any shame at losing at any level of difficulty?

Generating self esteem from a game is a bellweather of an unstable, "love me daddy" type of mindset. Nothing creates greater pathos than those people thinking success at a computer game has any real meaning in the world at large.

I'm not sure it's entirely self-esteem from a game. I think to some extent it's a manifestation of self-esteem from comparing yourself with others. The tendency to derive our sense of self-worth by comparing how successful you perceive yourself to be with how successful others appear to be. IMO it's still the wrong thing to derive your self-esteem from (far better to learn to get it from just being yourself and caring for others), but lots of people, probably most people, still do it to a large extent. :(

drkodos said:
Of course, the only reason I make this argument is because I suck. Now, if I were any good.....:lol:

.... you wouldn't be able to provide valuable self-esteem to those people who derive their self esteem from the fact that they're scored better than you in the GOTMs. :mischief:
 
DynamicSpirit said:
drkodos said:
Of course, the only reason I make this argument is because I suck. Now, if I were any good.....:lol:

.... you wouldn't be able to provide valuable self-esteem to those people who derive their self esteem from the fact that they're scored better than you in the GOTMs. :mischief:

Heeey, wait! You can't have my self esteem providing job! :mad:

Oh, my bad. There are still people worse than us ... Carry on then! :lol:
 
Equendil said:
You're not allowed to submit your second game, but you can compare your final score in that game with those in the table when results are published, scores displayed for GOTM are those you see within the game when you win or lose.

And I see no reason why you couldn't post in the spoiler threads.

One thing I noticed in my couple of previous COTM is that ranking via civ score is significantly different than the final ranking shown on the Civ IV COTM result page. So a valid comparison would be with Jason scores, which sadly Civ4 doesn't provide while hovering over the list of opponents.

The only Jason score calculator I could find is one for CIV III. Doesn't anybody have a method for converting Civ IV scores into Jason Scores?

I didn't anything particular stupid, the Quecha in my capital had a 210% bonus against the barb archer.
 
There is no Jason score for Civ IV, they just use the Firaxis one. Although there is a 'speed ranking' knocking about that is based on comparing the speed relative to other players by victory, which would be harder to duplicate.
 
Dolphan said:
There is no Jason score for Civ IV, they just use the Firaxis one. Although there is a 'speed ranking' knocking about that is based on comparing the speed relative to other players by victory, which would be harder to duplicate.

I am really confused the GOTM results table has a score column and final score column what is the difference?:confused:
 
strollen said:
I am really confused the GOTM results table has a score column and final score column what is the difference?:confused:

The "score" is what you normally see during the game (in the window with all the civilization leaders and their scores), and is based on population, techs you have learned, etc, while the final score is adjusted depending on difficulty level (I think?) and how fast you won. If you hover over your score in the civilization leader window, it also tells you what your final score would be if you won that turn.
 
Played some way into the practice game from this thread. My God. Barbs. Pillage. Everything. All the time.
 
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