GOTM 101 Final Spoiler

[Deckhand]

GOTM 101 Final Spoiler

,

So how did your game after 1AD go? Tell everyone and discuss in this thread, subject to...

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How did you do?
Was this the easy immortal vanilla game I hoped it would be?
What AI wars were there?
How many wonders did you build?

 

[Sleepless]

Think I failed on the wonders part.

Built Notre Dame, A Wat, Colussus, Taj and Pentagon in addition to the early wonders. Plus the Kong Miao if that counts.

I grabbed most of the big island to the NW. Hattie had 1 good site and one useless. Ditto the little island to the NE. I settled the copper/fish. Hattie settled the other end with mmm nothing. So quite a few cities to play around with.

Stayed very low on tech trades till we met the other AI even though I had got Cyrus to friendly. Once I met the other AI I traded up to Optics and used lib for astro. Self teched mil trad and time for cavalry..

First to go was Hattie - Cyrus - Monte - Peter and started on GK when I hit the domination limit in 1655.

Still at least I had one first in this game. Bulbed democracy with 2 unwanted great artists. Never been able to do that before. Or perhaps I've just not noticed. To late for the SoL though.

Edit to the questions above..

World Wonders.. 11 + Conf Shrine.

Game to easy?? Depends on how you look at it.. For me yes as mentioned in the first spoiler this would have been a nice vanilla deity game to give us a chance at that level. Room to expand and peaceful neighbours.

Wars.. Let me think.. Biz v Hattie - Biz v Cyrus - Biz v Monte - Biz v Peter - Biz v GK and that was it.
Quite surprising for a map with Alex/Monte and GK on it. Put one on our side in place of Hattie or Cyrus might have been a bit different.

 

[zbgayumn]

Well, I thought this would be my first win on Immortal, but alas it didn't happen.

I was already leaning toward a culture game, so given the wonder spamming challenge, it was an easy choice. I expanded pretty well in the early game, but I slowed down after 6 cities since that's usually about all I get in a culture game. There was still some room behind my borders though, so I reached 8 and then realized I could squeeze one onto the NW island to make 9.

I used Oracle on CoL, but it was too late to stop Hatty and Cyrus from being solidly Jewish. Worse, Judaism didn't spread to my cities until maybe 1000 AD. I had no religion, but my Cautious relations with Cyrus were apparently a good enough reason for him to DoW me. Not long after, Hatty dogpiled in. That wasn't the end though. They sent mostly swords, and Hatty attacked with Longbows, of all things. They never got that close to taking a city, but they pillaged me pretty bad. Eventually, I bought them off and the appearance of the other civs gave them new leaders to hate.

I only actually got 4 Wonders: Stonehenge, Oracle, Parthenon, and Sistine Chapel. All the best ones for culture, though. After Theology, I was too far behind in tech to have a very good shot at more.

Anyway, I thought things were going along pretty nicely. I was able to spread Judaism and Taoism to all of my cities (in addition to Confucianism) and I was getting cathedrals up. My GP farm was finally starting to accumulate some Artists after a few too many Prophets. I had converted to Judaism to get on the good side of my neighbors.

That last part may have been my undoing. It would've been almost unthinkable to not use Pacifism in a culture game, but running that religion probably bumped me to the top of the target list for Alex. He sailed over and hit me with 8 Cavs. He burned Munich and Dortmund. I killed off the Cavs with nothing more than Pikemen and Muskets. Then 8 more landed. They burned Essex and pillaged my capital until I killed them off. I rebuilt cities in two of those spots, and I tried desperately to sue for peace. I eventually offered 1000 gold, but no deal. Another group landed with a couple riflemen and cannon. Somehow, I killed them off as well. The fourth wave came in to the south and burned Frankfurt before I even knew they were there.

Frankfurt was my third culture city, so I called it quits at that point. I had used my GA bombs and reached over 20,000 culture in each of the 3 cities... so close, and yet so far...

 

[nocho]

I got to space in 1808AD.

From the first spoiler peacefully expanded the north eastern island, then decided to annex Egypt and Persia. I had blocked them in early, so that wasn't very troublesome. It netted 3 shrines from Hatty, Memphis with 2 of those made for a nice Wall Street city.

Ended with 14 wonders built of my own, thought too late of picking up mass media for some extra wonders and didn't pay much attention to some mid-game wonders (Sistine and such). Ship just landed 2 turns before 3GD finished.

Game was very peaceful until nearly the end (apart from the human aggression) when first Alex declared on Peter, then Monty on me and then subsequently I bribed both GK and Peter into war with Monty. They all had been pleased with me until then, Peter was even at friendly.

Due to the excellent start, the ample room for expansion and the good sites to settle into, this was indeed a rather easy game for immortal. But an enjoyable one as well.

 

[High King J.J.]

Late space victory. 21 wonders built, not counting shrines and the Notre Dame I took from Hatty.
Not too difficult. I built another scout in the beginning and was able to scout the land and eventually block rivals from expanding to my part of the continent. Hatty got only 3 cities on the mainland plus 1 in the archipelago and 2 on the empty continent NW. I did not open borders until very late when I had nearly all the 19 cities I had planned. Adopted Hatty's hinduism to keep the peace.
Much later GK invaded with cavalry. I had very little with which to stop them but switched to nationalism and conscripted + whipped the necessary riflemen. Had a MPP with Cyrus at the time so soon was able to get peace while GK concentrated on Persia.

Took Egypt very late, after tricking Cyrus who had a MPP with Hatty then, into attacking the backward Aztecs. Then my panzers took Egypt. Decided not to take Persia because that would have delayed SS launch.

I gambled on Hatty not declaring until I had expanded behind closed borders and it paid off.

 

[Jastrow]

After having built Oxford in the BC's, I was optimistic of a good space date, but somehow t did not come together... I still cant really put my fingur on it.

Post oxford, I beelined cannon's, and use them to sweep both my continent and the NW island. I then went on to whip out one other AI (I dont even remember who it was... Monty, maybe?), and proceeded to build a ship.

Tech wise, I went cannons->state preperty->computers/labs->robotics->Appolo->fussion->rest of space parts...

I had a 2 and a 3 person GA, along with the one from Taj... Build factories/cold plants/labs, and produced the ship... Messed up the ending by one turn, short a few hammers on the stassis chamber, and ended with a date of 1785.

Still not sure why it went so slow... I did have pretty poor luck with great people, but that would not have shaved of more than a couple of turns at best (I "wasted" to great people in the end, so maybe it is 3 turns.) The warring seemed OK in efficiency, and the start was quite nice. The land did not strike me as particularly poor either... Maintenance did seem a bit higher than I normally see, and we did lack any true economic trait, so maybe that hurt a bit. Still, I am a bit disapointed with the date, as I was hoping for quite a bit better.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Well, I know this was supposed to be an easy Immortal game, but since I never play immortal....

I didn't actually go for the early wonders, since I was really focused on actually trying to win the game. Then I decided to see how quickly I could build one. Geesh, some of them were 6 turns or less to build....shoulda gone with a different early plan. But I started with the Pyramids at that point and moved forward (went early to Representation).

I ended up with 12 wonders plus the internet. So, it's 13 really -- but, for some reason, the internet doesn't show up in the city I built it in. I guess I've never really looked for it after it was built....

Cyrus, Hattie, and I were all pretty much friendly for the entire game (same religion). I ended up winning with a space victory in 1936. Really, both Alex and Cyrus should have beat me to it. I decided at the last minute to chop a last forest to save a turn, and this was after a random great person appeared (with 5 turns left to finishing the engine) that was one that could start a 3 person GA (that also shaved exactly one turn). After selecting one more turn at the end, both Alex and Cyrus completed the final spaceship part....

I never was involved in a single war the entire game.

I must admit, that was probably the most fun space race I have ever played out. Thanks for the game!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

After having built Oxford in the BC's, I was optimistic of a good space date, but somehow t did not come together... I still cant really put my fingur on it.

(My emphasis)

Glug uh what wow err (and various other astounded noises)

Oxford University in BC years?

How????

I don't think I've ever even managed to research education before about 500AD, let along have researched it AND built universities in 6 cities AND then built Oxford. Normally I consider myself doing well if I get education earlier than 800-900AD.

 

[damnrunner]

Back to playing the gotm after a long hiatus. Late space race win in 1946. Spent way to much energy conquering Egypt and Persia.

Panzers are so much fun. Killed lots of Mongols when they decided to attack me in the late game. They had a far larger army which got a bit harry at times but the panzers saved my ass.

 

[Daijin7]

This was a fun game!

I got the most early space win I've ever managed: in 1850, so I am quite satisfied.
On the other hand I look at Jastrow, who considers 1785 as "late" and has Oxford up in the BCs - and still wonder, if I'll ever learn this game. ;-)

I took out Hatty early, Cyrus just after the 1000's. The Cyrus war was a bit long and cost me some turns in the end I think. It was very strange that I was at pleased almost the whole game with all those warmongers: Alex, Genghis, Peter. Monty was rather cautious, but so weak that he didn't impress anybody until about 1700 when he attacked Peter or Genghis I think.

Like somebody else (can't find the posting), got two shrines from Hatty in Memphis (Kashi and Salomo's) which became a quite nice Wall Street city. Cyrus gave me the space ship production sites: Pasargadae and Arbela.

Around 1500 I bribed Genghis to dow at Alex, because Alex was ahead in military and couldn't be bribed into war because of "being busy", so I wondered, if he was about to attack me (though he was pleased). Nevertheless Alex stayed please forever.

I built 15 wonders, 13 in my own cities:
Pyramids, Stonehenge, GLib, Hang.Gardens, Oracle, Parthenon, Hagia Sophia, Sistine, Taj, Statue of Liberty, Pentagon, Space Lift (yes that's a wonder) and Colossus.
2 wonders in cities founded by Hattie, but I built them myself, a long time after Hatty had "resigned": Broadway and R&R.
The A'I beat me a few turns to GL and Eifel. Internet I didn't finish, because I won 2 turns before. 3G-Dam I had no time to build while preaparing space ship.

I found the game quite easy and a lot of fun. The "jewel" I enjoyed most, was the Gems/8 Clams city in the north-east which I settled eventually and got running good science and even considerable production - with un-specialized specialists. ;-)

 

[c00per]

w00t! My first game on Immortal is victorious It truly was Wonder-full Deckhand must be a really nice guy because instant access to marble and stone + industrious + friendly neighbors made it quite easy game even for me

So I settled in place and started building wonders like there was no tomorrow. Converted to Judaism to become brothers in faith with Hatty and Cyrus. Delayed expansion way too long and build my second city only in 950 BC. Hatty and Cyrus expanded quickly to nearby islands so my expansion ended in 1140 AD with 5 cities built + 1 flipping from Hatty due to immense culture from my capital. After astronomy I also settled lonely gem island just for the sake of settling it even though it cost me quite a lot of distance maintenance

With my neighbors being so friendly, decided to go for cultural victory. Others were cautious due to religious differences but it has been a peaceful game for a very long time. Peace might have lasted even longer if I hadn't done something very very stupid and pretentious (though someone might have declared on me eventually because I always trailed at the bottom of the power graph).

So I had two religions in my cities - Judaism from Hatty and Christianity from myself. But I wanted more 50% culture multipliers so after Alex destroyed Mongolians in 1610 I went and settled in the middle of Alex land before his captured cities expanded borders. Couple turns later his Confucianism spread in that city so I quickly built a missionary and sent it mainland just before all of captured cities expanded borders and my city was cut off (we didn't have open borders).

Now a smart thing to do would have been to gift that useless city to Alex, but I didn't think of it at the time, so in 1695 he declared on me, took that city and started invasion to my mainland. Good thing that I started building frigates and later destroyers. Almost all of his troops sank in water. Had they reached my land - I would have lost all of my cites in 10 turns because Hatty and Cyrus "would have nothing to gain" declaring on Alex so I was alone in this mess. It wasn't very hard defend my short coast from Alex with enough destroyers and battleships. Even though Alex offered peace treaties for some techs from time to time, I always said "go to hell" and continued sinking his destroyers and transports filled with troops. In 1882 Monty joined Alex and tried to go through my destroyers and battleships with frigates and galleys (yes, really).

In 1900 I bribed Hatty and Cyrus to declare on Alex because all 3 of them started building SS casings and thrusters one after another (guess they had something to gain now if they agreed). Race to space slowed down so Bismark finally reached cultural victory in 1926.

I really wanted and tried to build ALL wonders but despite perfect circumstances AIs beat me to Lighthouse, Chicken and Hagia... So if my understanding of what counts as WW is correct, I have built 23 out of possible 26 wonders.

Btw, did those clusters of crabs, whales and fish had any particular meaning or was this just Deckhand being creative?

On the other hand I look at Jastrow, who considers 1785 as "late" and has Oxford up in the BCs - and still wonder, if I'll ever learn this game. ;-)

I feel exactly the same

Spoiler :

Oh, but I CAN refuse it. And I did

 

[Deckhand]

w00t! My first game on Immortal is victorious

Btw, did those clusters of crabs, whales and fish had any particular meaning or was this just Deckhand being creative?

Congrats.


Just being creative, but what do they look like?

 

[Daijin7]

>> Btw, did those clusters of crabs, whales and fish had any particular meaning
>> or was this just Deckhand being creative?

> Just being creative, but what do they look like?

Ahh, now I understand: I settled "Pearl City". Beautiful.

 

[Jastrow]

Wether Oxford in the BC was a good idea or not... I am thinking it was not. I probably invested too much into it, and would likely have been better of building it 500 years later, and getting the war machine rolling earlier instead.

Having said that, to answer the question "how?"

-Bassicaly, go for a very early CS sling, and revolt to beuraucracy asap.
-After Beuraucracy, beeling education.
-During this phase, build up 6 or 7 cities (not more, as that will kill your research rate.)
-Whip out or slow build granaries and Libraries in 6 cities. Prechop forrests, but do not chop them into those buildings.
-Once education comes in, complete all chops to get the universities done in 5 or so turns.
-Use the pre-chops from the capital NOT on the university, but save them for Oxford itself.

Using this approach (which may well not be a good idea), with some decent research tiles around the start area, and stone/industrial, Oxford around 300 AD is quite straightforward. Getting down to just before 1AD is bassically a worker and research optimization problem.

 

[nocho]

@Jastrow, how many bulbs did you do on the way to edu? Did you go for an early academy too? It'd be interesting to know about your early GP use.

 

[Jastrow]

I just opened up my 25BC save again (Oxford was built on ibt between 50BC and 25BC) to look at some stats.

I had only produced 2 GP so far, both GS. The first was used for an Acadamy in the capital. The second was used to part-bulb education.

My complete tech order was:

Aggri, AH, Write, Wheel, Myst, Med, Priest, CoL,
CS-Sling in 1640 BC, revolt Caste+Beuraucracy
Pottery, BW, Math, Currency, Paper, Masonry, Edu (400BC)
MC, (Picked up IW, Sail, Poly, and a bunch of gold in trades), Calender.

Because of the trades, I had 514 gc in the bank at 25BC.

Of course, this is all at the cost of expansion... I had only 7 cities, and virtually no millitary. 8 Workers, and 3 workboats (converted to nets), but only 3 warriors and 3 spearman for defense.

 

[Daijin7]

@Jastrow: Thank's for the explanation. Quite interesting!
I usually go for Alpha early (to trade with it) and usually build the GLib soon - I almost always get it, even on high levels.
But as I see from your example, these may not always be the best choices to get science running.

 

[FiveRings]

"As Otto van Bismarck, can you combine the various German states (many of whom don't realize they are German) into one Globe Spanning Nation?" - I thought this implies Conquest.
So, 1834 CV, meagre 55K.
OR, MIDS, Parth, TGLIB, NDame, SoL, Pentagon, Broadway and R&R (last turn, to find use of the GE, and because it rocks!)
GK vs Hat, Cyrus vs Hat (that I know of), Alex vs Monte and GK vs Alex (induced).
First IMM win, thanks for the nice and facilitating setting, DH!!: looked easier than the 100 EMP game, and my score was higher (although my submission of the 100 didn't go thru, and I didn't insist upon getting it thru.)

 

[Htadus]

This was the closest culture game I ever played. That is because I did my typical war game diplo with Alex and had him DoW me 2 times and ended up razing 5 cities on the first war. Then I paid him off and was about 5 turns from winning the game, when he landed 4 transports worth of assorted units in my warrior /archer defended cities. Scrambled to sell techs and upgraded to machine guns and Infantry to hold off his army for the 5 turns. He ended up razing 3 more cities. I did not realize that I agree for a Hatties request to stop trading with him. The man is sensitive.

But at the end the Sec Gen of UN won a cultural victory in 1860 AD with 16 shiny WW's. Missed 4 by two turns. Phew. That was close.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Wether Oxford in the BC was a good idea or not... I am thinking it was not. I probably invested too much into it, and would likely have been better of building it 500 years later, and getting the war machine rolling earlier instead.

Having said that, to answer the question "how?"

-Bassicaly, go for a very early CS sling, and revolt to beuraucracy asap.
-After Beuraucracy, beeling education.
<snip rest of explanation>

Thanks Jastrow, that's quite informative. So it sounds like, basically you built Oxford so early by prioritizing getting to education over all else right from the start of the game.

FWIW my experience matches yours a little. I've never got close to your date, but a couple of times in various games (NOT this one btw) I've managed to research education by 500ADish, by following a similar approach. However after doing that a few times I figured it wasn't that helpful. Partly that's because I found getting to education so quickly generally meant I didn't have enough cities powerful enough to quickly build universities. And partly because I got to education so quickly by staying small, which would mean I then needed to prioritise production and expansion. As a result, my science rate would invariably drop just as I'm finishing Oxford, basically nullifying its benefits.