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GOTM 119 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Inkerman, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Peaster

    Peaster Chieftain

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    As far as I know, respawns always stop at 1500AD in Deity, and later at lower levels (as Inkerman said). Some Apolyton players knew this, but it wasn't the real focus of the respawn threads. They were only interested in Diety, and in predicting how many times a civ would respawn, and where. There seems to be a large random factor in both, and thus no simple complete answers.

    In defense of Republic, if you want big cities, strong trade and fairly-early conquest all in the same game, it's probably the best compromise. I used it to "win" GOTM 16 over Starlifter, Smash, etc (though I finished a few years too late to submit the game).

    Just noticing that Ali has over 130 cities ... is this a change in style ? Maybe we can make a rabid ICSer out of you yet. Also, thumbs up to mackerel. :goodjob:
     
  2. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I play for spaceship victory but not early landing. Don't know what I did wrong but I guess the war with the Vikings is the cause I did not expand the way I wanted to.

    If I have enough time I will post more logs tomorrow.
     
  3. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
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    Here is my log from 760 to 1000 AD.

    Date Notes

    760 AD: Madrid builds Sewer, starts one of three trade route caravans. T2L355. Pop hut: Physics. Build Cunaxa II at (148, 76) Pop hut: Legion.

    780 AD: Discover Chemistry: start Invention. Kill Barb horsemen from a previous popping. 2 Eles, 2 Crusaders and a Horsemen seize a fortress at striking distance from Nagoya.

    Interturn: Jap Ele approaches and steps near my warrior near Nara.

    800 AD: Population exceeds 10 million citizens. Vet crusader kills Jap Legion in a fort near Nagoya. Kill Jap settler near Nagoya. Kill Jap archer in Nagoya: Nagoya stormed for 22g+3 citizens. Jap emissary turned down: They wow to continue their war. No Senate interference yet... although I wish I did not unknowingly took 3 turns of anarchy to get the war going. Attack Jap Elephant: My warrior dies. Build Cremona II at (9, 17)

    Interturn: Japs abandon GW. Jap government overthrown.

    820 AD: Séville builds Aqueduct and starts KRC. Population exceeds 11mil. 5 vans in Séville: 50s left for Wonder. Pop hut: 50g. Build Cannae II at (7, 7) Build Capoue II at (145, 51) Move my troops in Japan to heal and to position for attack against Edo. Pop hut: Theory of Gravity. Make sure to save this time.

    Interturn: Roman government overthrown. Jap government is a Republic.

    840 AD: Madrid van, starts Isaac Newton’s. Kill Jap catapult near Edo: horsemen is vet. Crusader kills a Jap archer in Edo. Elephant kills another Jap archer in Edo. Still units in there: I think I made a mistake for not waiting for the 2 other units to heal. Antium silk (d) to Madrid: 156g. 7 vans in Madrid: 50s left for Isaac Newton’s. Build at (16, 30) T7L3S0: With at least 3 huts popped next turn, I’m taking the risk one of them is a tech (thus why I’m delaying Invention, which kills techs from huts)

    Interturn: Barbs near Toronto, will rebribe. The Japs do not attack my stack... lucky!

    860 AD: Rome is a republic. Peace signed between Japan and another nation. Pop hut: Invention! My risk paid off, although this was the worst of the best outcomes. T2L3S5. Explorer from Séville II pops its first hut: Barbs. Bleh. Build Gênes II at (113, 27) Ele kills Jap Trireme in Edo: Edo sacked for 4g. Pop hut: More barbs. Pop hut: Nomads. Rush Isaac Newton’s in Madrid for 168g. Build Crête II at (154, 72) Build Vérone II at (143, 75)

    Interturn: Greeks develop Bridge Building. Greeks order us to withdraw: we comply. Horsemen, Explorer both die to Barbs. Toronto stormed by Barbs, 5g plundered. Germans develop Monotheism.

    880 AD: Start researching Gunpowder. Discover Gunpowder (tech box was full before the Invention hut) Democracy is next. Madrid builds Isaac Newton’s: 210 beakers per turn. Population exceeds 12 million citizens. Switch Séville from KRC to Leo’s: Rush Leo’s for 516g. Madrid wool (d) to Cordoue: 90g. Madrid gold (d) to Séville: 117g. Madrid now produces 246b per turn. Hail Japs: Senate agrees to a cease-fire?!? Not what I wanted.

    900 AD: Séville builds Leonardo’s, starts KRC. Leonardo’s upgrade Phalanxes to Musketeers. Leo’s upgrades Triremes to Caravels. Leo’s upgrades all Eles to Crusaders. Leo’s upgrades all Pikers to Musketeers. Leo’s upgrades all Legions to Musketeers. Build Salamis II at (138, 46) Kill Barb horsemen from previous popping: crusader vet. Subvert Suse for 162x2g: 24g plundered. Get 2 citizens and a phalanx. PERSIA DESTROYED BY SPAIN. Respawn is the Chinese. T7L3S0 because I need some cash and could use a zero-turn revolution. Japs: Peace treaty is signed by Senate. Stupid of me. Mongols: Give Navigation, Invention, Physics, Chemistry (Biology is next... just kidding) Banking, Writing, Pottery, Astronomy and Theory of Gravity. Update maps. Tech box full.

    920 AD: Population exceeds 13 million citizens. Madrid reaches size 21, scientist hired. Chinese: Give Sanitation, peace. Give Invention, Navigation. Swap maps. They are right near 2 of my boats... loaded with a nomad and a horsemen. Good luck on that... Horse kills a wounded Barb horse: vet. Japs: try to goad them, that fails. Bribe back Toronto for 52g: disband Legion in Toronto for a settler.

    Interturn: Chinese government overthrown.

    940 AD: Discover Democracy, start Explosives. REVOLUTION. T0L6S4. Trondheim riots. Monarchy established. Romans: No tribute. Japs: No tribute. Greeks: 50g. Mongols: 25g. REVOLUTION. Democracy established. T2L3S5. Discoveries 2 turns. Madrid 294b per turn. Subvert Pompéi for 159x2 gold. 18g plundered. Get a Phalanx, Temple and Settler with a size 2 city. ROMAN CIV DESTROYED BY SPANISH. Respawn is the Russians. Pop hut: Nomads. Pop hut: Nomads.

    Interturn: China is now a republic. Barb horsemen near Séville II.

    960 AD: Population exceeds 14 million citizens. Build Lisbonne II at (130, 32) Pop hut: NONE crusader. Pop hut: 50g.

    Interturn: Barb horsemen attacks and gets killed by musketeer, who is vet.

    980 AD: Leonardo’s upgrades all Settlers to Engineers as Explosives is discovered. Magnetism NOT AVAILABLE: Economy is next. Population exceeds 15 million citizens. Madrid produces 330 science beakers: can support 4 more scientists. Build Hambourg II at (69, 65) Build Prague II at (113, 41) Madrid is fully irrigated. Build Salzbourg II at (147, 57) Build Bergen II at (132, 66) Build Venise II at (42, 10) Build Milan II at (132, 44)

    Interturn: Exploratory horsemen meets a Russian crusader. Peace. Give Invention, Physics. Swap maps.

    1000 AD: Discover Economy: start Magnetism. Séville switches from KRC to Adam Smith’s. Japs: Ask them to withdraw troops: They do. Build Ghent II at (36, 56) Should contain the Mongols for a while. Build Pise II at (157, 77) Van in Séville: 315s left for AS.


    Status at 1000 AD:


    Population: 15.95M Cities: 101 Trade routes: 4D0F Government: Democracy
    Gold: 836 Cost per turn: 98 Total advances: 42 Production: 473MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Pyramids, HG, Marco, LH, Sun Tzu, Mikes, Cope, Shakes, Mags, JSB, Leo’s, Isaac Newton’s. Currently building Adam Smith’s
    Units: 63 Engineers, 8 Musketeers, 6 Horsemen, 11 Crusaders, 12 Caravels, 1 dip, 2 vans, 1 explorer.
    Romans: Destroyed by me
    Russians: 1 city, 21 techs. Despo, peace, 6g.
    Japanese: 4 cities, 23 techs. Republic, peace, 37g. They have Colossus.
    Germans: 1 city, 20 techs. Repu, peace, 17g. Currently building GL
    Vikings: Destroyed by me
    Persia: Destroyed by me
    Chinese: 1 city, 22 techs. Republic, peace, 5g.
    Greeks: 9 cities, 16 techs. Despo, peace, 135g.
    Mongolia: 4 cities, 31 techs. Republic, peace, 105g.


    EDIT: To answer Magic's question: IIRC, the tech cost is reset after the 167th future tech (255 techs total) The 207g problem is probably you running in the 2/3rds cap, since when that happens (after FT 167) the tech costs go down by a LOT.
     
  4. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    It's been a long time I researched a lot of future techs. I know there comes a moment where the amount of science beakers will be reset (around 150?). At the moment another strange thing is happening already and I don't remember it seeing before (perhaps I did not trade in those games). Normally I should get around 500-2000 gold for every delivery but right now I don't get higher then 207g.....

    Is this always when having a lot of FT?
     
  5. Peaster

    Peaster Chieftain

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    I finished on target, by conquest, with approx 160 cities, and had time for a very brief Republic phase at the end. The respawns were about average, about 10. Nice map.
     
  6. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    It happened around FT 90. It probably has something to do with getting close to resetting the tech costs. I don't know if this is always happening, but I expected it not earlier then FT 167.

    More info from my games:

    540 AD
    Population: 5.49M Cities: 56 Government: Republic
    Gold: 505 Cost per turn: 14 Total advances: 33 Production: 197MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: HG, Marco, Colossus, Michelangelos, Shakespeare.
    Units: 28 Settlers, 1 Warrior, 1 Phalanx, 4 Elephants, 1 Crusader, 5Triremes, 9 caravans.

    1000 AD
    Population: 12.24M Cities: 83 Government: Democracy
    Gold: 61 Cost per turn: 56 Total advances: 39 Production: 308MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: HG, Marco, Colossus, Michelangelos, Shakespeare, Lighthouse, Great Library, Copernicus, J.S. Bach, Isaac Newton.
    Units: 34 Settlers, 1 Warrior, 1 Phalanx, 1 archer, 4 Elephants, 11 Crusader, 7Triremes, 5 diplomats, 21 caravans.
     
  7. mackerel

    mackerel Chieftain

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    500-1000AD log, focused on growth and setting up for massive domestic trade. I think I went to republic too early, should have grown more in monarchy while support costs were low. Seems like I spent from 200-1000AD just building roads to keep luxuries up.

    540 - Madrid silk Paris(n) 258g. Gave university, astronomy, engineering to France for attitude and maps. Hut>barbs, dead settler. Carth settler killed by barb legion. Magnetism>Invention.
    560 - Madrid hides Paris(d) 516g. Granada3 founded. Invention>Democracy.
    580 - Malaga3, Pamplona3 founded. Hut>50g. More trade, ship chain getting set up, exploring toward Celts but a direct sea route looks unlikely. Democracy>Chemistry. Madrid builds Leo's. 9m citizens.
    600 - Madrid gold Granada(d) 210. Vigo3 founded. Kyoto+53g captured. Revolution>Democracy.
    620 - Osaka+121g captured. Barbarians capture Cardiff, Celts destroyed, respawned as Russia. Chemistry>Sanitation.
    640 - Avila3 founded. Sanitation>Gunpowder. 11m citizens.
    660 - Edo bought for 183x2+123, settler+phalanx, Japanese destroyed and respawn as Babylon. Give Russia mapmaking, invention, physics, bronze, warcode, got maps. Leon3, Burgos3 founded. Madrid sewer. Gunpowder>Explosives.
    680 - Oviedo3 founded.
    700 - Santander3, Rodrigo3 founded. Hut>barbs, musketeer becomes vet and fights off 6 horsemen. Explosives>Gravity. Madrid library.
    720 - Calatrava3 founded, completing the canal to Mongols and Greeks. Hut>barbs, engineer gets away. Cartagena3, Naples3 founded. Hut>25g. Gave Babylon invention, construction, writing, banking, astronomy, sanitation, mapmaking, got maps. 14m citizens.
    740 - Madrid dye Thermopylae(d) 394, Saragossa hides(d) 122. Dublin silk Kashgar(d) 111. Burgos2 spice Madrid(d) 192. Issus3 founded. Persians begin GL. French develop bridge building, I've been waiting for that a long time. Gravity>Steam. Madrid University.
    760 - Cadiz2, Seville hides Therm 110, 148. Madrid salt Kashgar 386. Gave French invention, sanitation, navigation, physics, they refuse to trade for bridge building so I'll have to kill them. Newton's College bought in Madrid for a caravan+1400g. Cunaxa3 founded. Hut>50g. Steam>Economics.
    780 - Madrid now produces 588 science at 100%, tech cost 1312. Tax 3.4.3 for 3 turn advances temporarily, to build gold for the push to industrialization while trade covers science. 88-195 for various domestic demanded trade to Madrid to build trade routes. Cremona3, Cannae3 founded. Economics>Bridge.
    800 - Capua3 founded. Bridge>Metallurgy. 18m citizens. Madrid reaches size 20.
    820 - Turin3 founded. Metallurgy>Railroad.
    840 - Tax to 0.0.10 for one-turn advance to get through the hurdle. Hut>25g,100g. Genoa3, Crete3, Verona3 founded. Railroad>Industrialization. Mass disorder ensues as I forgot HG would be cancelled. Madrid harbor. Industrialization>Electricity.
    860 - Darwin bought in Barcelona for 1592. Core railroad construction begins. Salamis3, Lisbon3 founded. Greeks begin GL. Electricity>Corporation>Refrigeration. Went from 62 engineers to 85 as railroad press gangs are instituted.
    880 - Leon2 gems Madrid 264. Madrid wool Sparta 486. Hamburg3, Prague3 founded. Advanced tribe Salzburg3. Greeks change from GL to Sun Tzu. Refrigeration>GenEng.
    900 - Hut>barbs, engineer founds Bergen3 rather than simply dying. Stole Feudalism from France, government falls, blah. Paris+268g+library captured, French respawn as Germans. Gave Germans sanitation, railroad, invention, banking, navigation, pottery, mapmaking, shared maps. Barbarians capture Bergen3.
    920 - Susa+33g captured, capital moved to Persepolis which is out of range. Arbela bribed for 475, 49g+barracks+walls+2phalanx rebate. Antioch bought for 532+31+barracks+market+phalanx+settler. Crusader in a bad place bought for 260. 2 Barb knights bribed for 82 each. Madrid supermarket. And back to Democracy.
    940 - Moscow captured+66g+market, Russia respawns as Rome. Bergen3 bought back for 23g, knight comes with it. Railway is complete enough on the main continent to start disbanding extra transports. GenEng>Theology.
    960 - Venice3, Milan3, Ghent3, Pisa3 founded. Persian horse deserts for 243. 2 trucks+2000g cures cancer in Toronto. Hut>barbs. Theology>Refining.
    980 - 102 engineers and it's not enough.. but the rails lead to Kyoto. Persepolis captured+58g+barracks+walls. Pasargadae revolts for 420, 98g refund+barracks+walls+2phalanx, Oracle abandoned, Persians respawn as Chinese. Finally found a way to Carthage, Cardiff revolts from barbarian rule for 260, 2 legion and a library. Hut>crusader x2. Dublin3, Toronto3, Melbourne3, Sydney3, Madrid4, Seville4, Toledo4, Cordoba4, Valencia4, Salamanca4, Barcelona4, Valladolid4, Saragossa4 founded. Exploring musket survives 6 barbs and meets 2 roman settlers, one deep in the red, Rome declares war. Refining>Steel.
    1000 - Cadiz4, Bilbao4, Granada4 founded. Bach's completed in Rome for a truck+1400g. Gave Chinese railroad, peace, writing, navigation, mapmaking, industrialization, got maps. Gave mongols navigation, railroad, industrialization, physics, mettalurgy, steam engine, magnetism, engineering, chemistry to lower tech cost.

    1000 AD status - 169 cities. 91 engineers, 3 muskets, 1 horse, 12 crusaders, 2 knights, 28 transport, 9 dip, 25+94 freight. At tax 0.4.6 I get 45 cost, 0 income, 1445 science, 1 turn discoveries. 52 advances. 27m citizens. 13 wonders.
    Rome>Celts>Russia>Rome: 0 cities, 20 advances, at war with me.
    Japan>Babylon: 1 city, 28 advances
    Vikings>French>Germany: 1 city, 24 advances
    Persia>China: 1 city, 28 advances
    Greece: 7 cities, 27 advances, building Sun Tzu.
    Mongols: 4 cities, 31 advances after being gifted 9 this turn.
     
  8. mackerel

    mackerel Chieftain

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    I've finished, landed a spaceship earlier than ever before. I am astounded by the power of a SSC with 3 trade routes from each of ~200 domestic cities. By the end of the game, while Madrid produced a ridiculous amount of science, it only accounted for 10% of my total. Size 1 cities were producing 20 beakers.
     
  9. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Between your word and mine, I will go with yours.
    Have you ever tried celebrating Monarchy? If not, give it a shot. I think it beats Republic. Maybe we should do a comparison game some time.
    It is not the first time that I have built that many cities on a map this size. But my style is definitely evolving and your GOTM games have a lot to do with it. I still do not like to build all my cities close by. I find overlaps in city radii annoying. My current thinking is that I should have several categories of cities. Those which grow to full size, those which grow to size 12, and those which never get beyond size 8. I still lack a good system of planning these apriori and keeping track of it all. But I certainly try harder than before to build cities more quickly.

    I do a lot of future tech research and I do not recall having observed this phenomenon. There is a long way from FT90 to FT167.
     
  10. Peaster

    Peaster Chieftain

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    IMO the main reason for Republic is the fast growth in city sizes. If I'm playing mainly for big trade bonuses, then it's a huge advantage to double those sizes, double the arrows, double the bonuses. If the growth ends, or trade fizzles for some reason, it probably makes sense to switch to something else, such as monarchy.
     
  11. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I have launched. Now I have 10 turns to keep growing and build 10 wonders. My rivals were exceptionally weak in wonder building. Only the Romans and Japanese built an ancient wonder each.
     
  12. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Right; and I agree. In republic only your core cities (the ones close to your capital) can celebrate; others have too much corruption. This celebration will usually be over in a few turns. After that I believe Monarchy is a better choice until modern forms of government such as Democracy.
     
  13. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Here is my log from 1000 AD to 1250 AD. Not much done, mostly expanding and building up for a last celebration spree just before the game's over. I was very slow compared to others for tech progress, but that was compensated by the fact that I ended up going for conquest.


    Interturn: Greeks ask us to leave Mycènes. Whoops. I did not notice that. Jap capital moved to Osaka. Crap.

    1010 AD: Population exceeds 17 million citizens. Japs: Same as before. Build Dublin II at (171, 87) Build Toronto II at (141, 35) Build Melbourne II at (10, 36) Pop hut: NONE musketeer.

    Interturn: Germans abandon GL.

    1020 AD: The Lighthouse’s effect is cancelled as Magnetism is discovered. Leo’s upgrades all Caravels to Galleons. Metallurgy is next. Population exceeds 18 million citizens. Build Sydney II at (72, 52) Build Madrid III at (138, 78) Pop hut: 100g. Pop hut: 50g. T2L3S5

    Interturn: Japs expel a diplomat, Germans start GW.

    1030 AD: Population exceeds 19 million citizens. Madrid reaches max size of 28 without farmland (could be 29 but supports an engineer) Japanese city of Nara went in disorder... while I was poised to subvert it. Subvert Nara for 137x2. Get 11 back, along with 4 citizens, barracks, temple and 2 units. Disband the Archer: will keep the Legion. T3L6S1, discoveries 4 turns (yay SSC!) Build Séville III at (191, 77) Crusader kills wounded Barb legion from hut popping near Séville II. Build Tolède III at (155, 53) Build Cordoue III at (44, 16)

    Interturn: GREEK SNEAK ATTACK!!! Legion kills my Crusader on a mountain. Greek archer and warrior move near my other crusader, who was simply heading home.

    1040 AD: WLTPD in every size 3+ city in the Nation. Leo’s upgrades all Legions to Musketeers as Metallurgy is discovered. Conscription is next. Population exceeds 20 million citizens. Crusader kills Greek Warrior: vet. Crusader kills Greek Archer. Build Valence III at (19, 19) Mongols: Give Metallurgy, Magnetism. Update maps. Darnit, no new Greek information. Madrid Dye (d) to Burgos: 70g. Van in Séville: 231s left for AS. Build Salamanaque III at (152, 80)

    Interturn: Germans develop BW. Germans switch from GW to GL. No Greek action.

    1050 AD: Population exceeds 26 million citizens. Build Barcelone II at (162, 82) Van in Séville: 170s left for AS.

    1060 AD: Population exceeds 31 million citizens. Japs: Try to goad them, That fails. Subvert Kagoshima for 220x2g. 15g plundered, get a size 3 with temple, phalanx and legion. Disband the Legion. Build Valladoid II at (20, 34) Build Saragosse III at (139, 51) Build Cadix III at (134, 28) Pop hut: 5 barb knights. Explorers from Séville II seem to have a curse placed on them. Build Bilbao III at (125, 73) Pop hut: 50g. Pop hut: 200g. Build at (10, 12) pop hut: More barbs. Darnit, should have planned a boat to pick up the crusader. Kill a barb knight: vet.

    Interturn: Chinese develop Monarchy. Crusader, explorer both die to barbs.

    1070 AD: Leonardo’s upgrades all Musketeers to Riflemen and all Phalanx to Musketeers as Conscription is discovered. Electricity is next. Population exceeds 35 million citizens. Build Malaga III at (126, 18) Build Pampelune III at (153, 85)

    Interturn: Greek units move away.

    1080 AD: Population exceeds 39 million citizens. Spot 3 Greek Legions, move back crusader in a dead end. I’m betting that my vet cru will have enough left to kill the 3rd legion, who could move on a mountain (the other 2 legions are stacked on grass) Van in Séville: 81s left for AS. Build Vigo III at (133, 51) Build New Pasargades at (117, 13) Kill Barb horsemen from a previous hut popping with a vet horsemen.

    Interturn: Greeks acquire Metallurgy from Mongols. *headdesk* Mongols acquire CoL from Greeks. They sign a peace treaty. Greek units do not step near Crusader. Japs learn Astronomy.

    1090 AD: Séville II riots. Population exceeds 43 million citizens. Time to switch it up. Mongols: Ask for war against Greeks. They want 100g, I wanted to pay tech. T2L2S6, discoveries every turn. Forgot how powerful a SSC is (especially a good one... shame I was unable to get Colossus as it was to no big use trade-wise on this map) Build Leon III at (107, 27) Build at (183, 93)

    1100 AD: WLTPD cancelled in many cities. Civil disorder in Ciudad Rodrigo2. Order re-established in Séville II. Leonardo’s upgrades all Musketeers to Riflemen as Electricity is discovered. Steam Engine is next. Build Oviedo III at (99, 91) Rush a destroyer in Sydney II.

    Interturn: Greeks develop Masonry. :lol: Barbs near my crusader near Séville II. Greek Ele steps near one of my crusaders.

    1110 AD: Order in Ciudad Rodrigo2. Disorder in Santander II, rush a temple and hire an Elvis. Discover Steam Engine: Refrigeration is next. Kill Greek Elephant. Build Santander III at (114, 52) Build Ciudad Rodrigo3 at (182, 32) Build Calatrava III at (186, 74) Kill a barb knight, then withdraw out of reach.

    Interturn: Another barb near my crusader.

    1120 AD: Discover Refrigeration, start Atomic Theory (only other choice Chivalry) Order reestablised in Santander II. Discover Atomic Theory, start Railroad. T4L3S3. Destroyer kills Greek Phalanx near Athènes: vet. NONE riflemen steps near Greek Elephant (rifle is on a hill) Kill another barb knight near Séville II. Rush an explorer in Leon III. Pop hut: 100g. Try a move with stranded Crusader: Crusader kills fortified Greek Legion in a hill. Took some serious damage, I’m hoping the Greek Phalanx nearby won’t attack (or will die)

    Interturn: Greek Ele dies attacking my Rifle: vet. Greek Phalanx kills my crusader. Germans develop Medicine and abandon the GL.

    1130 AD: WLTPD in many small cities and in SSC Madrid. Japs do not want to talk. Subvert Satsuma for 648x2g. Get the Colossus, 42g, 2 Phalanxes, 1 Archer, barracks, granary, temple and marketplace. Disband an archer and phalanx. Move rifle closer to Greeks, crusader follows nearby.

    Interturn: Another Greek ele kills one of my crusaders. Final barb near my crusader near Séville II.

    1140 AD: Hanging Gardens’ effect is cancelled as Railroad is discovered. Leonardo’s upgrades all Phalanxes to Musketeers as Railroad is discovered. Industrialization is next. Population exceeds 45 million citizens. Switch Séville from Adam Smith’s to Darwin’s: will be built next turn. T1L3S6 to finish Industrialization before Séville is processed as to get the most out of Darwin’s. Kill final barb knight. Build Cartagène III at (45, 5) Build Naples III at (15, 7) Build at (28, 30) as a canal city. Greeks do not want to talk and there is a Greek Ele nearby that city... Mongols: Pay 150g for war against Greeks. Pop hut: Advanced tribe! Cunaxa III has 4 citizens, a temple and a marketplace. Not bad! (and it is near Berlin and Moscou) Build Cremona III at (117, 19) Troops embark boat with intention of storming Athènes.

    Interturn: Greeks do not take my city.

    1150 AD: Civil disorder in Sydney II (destroyer unhappiness) Hire elvis and rush temple. Disorder in Milan II. WLTPD ends in many cities. Séville builds Darwin’s... Industrialization not discovered prior. CRAP, almost a full advance in beakers wasted! Got too greedy, should have went the safe way and run a tax deficit. Discover Industrialization, Leo’s upgrades all Galleons to Transports and all Muskets to riflemen. Next up: Commy or Chivalry... choose on Chivalry. Leo’s upgrades all Horsemen to Knights as Chivalry is discovered. Next up is The Corporation. This setup hurts. Move rifle and knight near Thermopyles. Destroyer kills Greek settler near Sparte. Chinese: Ask them to remove troops: They do. Also update maps. Build Cannae III at (93, 89) Build Capoue III at (127, 49) Rush destroyer in Bergen II with intent to take out a barb frigate that is preventing an engineer team to settle. T2L3S5.

    Interturn: Greek and Mongol warfare observed, Greek cannon moves near my rifle.

    1160 AD: Séville II order, and temple. Calatrava marketplace and order. Leonardo’s upgrades all caravans to freight as The Corporation is discovered. Steel is next (Genetic Engineering not available) Kill Greek cannon. Destroyer kills Greek warrior near Sparte. Build Turin III at (145, 13)

    Interturn: More Greek/Mongol warfare observed. Greek ele shows up near rifle, but does not attack and backs off.

    1170 AD: Population exceeds 46 million citizens. Kill barb frigate: destroyer vet. Build Gênes III at (113, 59) Pop hut: 50g. Kill Greek cannon near Corinthe. Kill Greek settler near Corinthe. Kill Greek legion in Corinthe. (all with destroyer) Kill greek Phalanx in Thermopyles with rifle. Build Crète III at (10, 42) Build Vérone III at (72, 70) Build Salamis III at (98, 76)

    Interturn: Greek ele dies attacking my rifle.

    1180 AD: Discover Steel, start Genetic Engineering. Kill Greek Phalanx in Thermopyles: No more defenders. Kill Greek Archer, Greek Trireme in Corinthe: no more defenders left. Choose not to take that city this turn. Pop hut near Athènes: NONE Riflemen. Too bad they probably won’t see any action next turn. Build Lisbonne III at (106, 20) Build Hambourg III at (90, 94)

    Interturn: Chinese develop Astronomy. No greek moves. Germans develop Currency.

    1190 AD: Séville builds Sewer and starts the Suffrage. Discover Genetic Engineering: start Leadership. Population exceeds 47 million citizens. 3 vans in Séville for the Cure for Cancer (switched from Suffrage) DARNIT senate signed peace treaty with Greeks! I’m pissed! No results achieved, save for damage inflicted (510s versus 90s) Rush the Cure in Séville for 1800g. T1L3S6. Build Prague III at (177, 93) Pop hut: Musketeers. Explorer starts exploring Greek homeland, near 2 warriors.

    Interturn: Greeks order me to leave Thermopyles, thanks to the... Senate. I do.

    1200 AD: Séville builds the Cure for Cancer. Leonardo’s upgrades all Knights and Crusaders to Dragoons and all Musketeers to Riflemen as Leadership is discovered. Next up: Commy or Fundy... Fundy is chosen. Population exceeds 48 million citizens. Mongols: Give Railroad before they say goodbye. Tech rate is back to a turn a tech: It should be Madrid who does the trick, so maybe I can have an oedo revolution and steamroll the Greeks. But past experience with civ2 tells me this is a longshot... but still better than cathedrals taking a hit with Commy. Build Salzbourg III at (191, 71) Notice hides is back in Madrid: I noticed it has a tendency to come back with larger cities, when you are advanced in tech (maybe because you are close to Mass. Prod, which kills hides demand?) Build Bergen III at (120, 74) Build Venise III at (127, 55)

    Interturn: Chinese government overthrown.

    1210 AD: Discover Fundamentalism: start Tactics. Do not get a revolution option. Greeks: Try to taunt them, that fails. T3L2S5. Build Milan III at (39, 15) Build Ghent III at (49, 19) Build Pise III at (44, 56) Build Dublin III at (99, 35)

    Interturn: China is a monarchy. Russia develops Monarchy.

    1220 AD: Valence builds Marketplace, starts Adam Smith’s. Population exceeds 49 million citizens. Greeks: Same as before. T7L2S1. Build Toronto III at (91, 67) Build Melbourne III at (15, 37) Germans: Swap maps, uncovers location of Leipzig. Russia: Give Railroad, Industrialization, Metallurgy. Update maps discovers Russian city of St Petersburg. Build Sydney III at (124, 60)

    Interturn: Greeks warn me to leave Ephèse.

    1230 AD: Leonardo’s upgrades all Dragoons to Cavalry as Tactics is discovered. Electronics is next. Madrid also builds walls, starts SoL. Population exceeds 50 million citizens. Rush Adam Smith’s in Valence for 1564g: would save me 148g per turn. (total cost 292g) Greeks: Same as before. Pop hut: Musketeer. Build Madrid IV at (14, 16) Tolède spice (d) to Antium: 246g. Build Séville IV at (142, 56) Build Tolède IV at (171, 93)

    Interturn: Greeks warn me to leave Argos. Greeks kill mongol elephant near Argos. Russian government overthrown. Germans develop Construction.

    1240 AD: Valence builds Adam Smith’s. Rush the SoL in Paris for 1560g. Build Cordoue IV at (137, 57) Build Valence IV at (107, 41) Greeks: Same as before. Greeks: Same as before. Build Salamanque IV at (108, 52)

    Interturn: Barbs land near undefended Barcelone III! The city is stormed by Barbs. 0g plundered. Russia is now a Monarchy. Russia and Germany declare war.

    1250 AD: Madrid builds the SoL. Population exceeds 51 million citizens. Greeks: I taunt, they declare WAR! Destroyer near Corinthe kills 2 archers in Corinthe and ele near Corinthe. Cavalry near Delphes kills Phalanx: vet. Kills another Phalanx nearby. Cavalry kills Greek archer in Thermopyles. Kill Phalanx in Athènes with Cavalry: vet. Same happens with 2 Legions. Storm Athènes: 14g plundered and Greek capitol is down. Storm Corinthe: 33g plundered. Build Barcelone IV at (23, 29) Build Valladoid IV at (28, 76) Build Saragosse IV at (87, 73)

    Status at 1250 AD:


    Population: 51.91M Cities: 163 Trade routes: 5D0F Government: Democracy
    Gold: 11 Cost per turn: 162 Total advances: 58 Production: 905MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Pyramids, HG, Colossus, Marco, LH, Sun Tzu, Mikes, Cope, Shakes, Mags, JSB, Leo’s, Isaac Newton’s, AS, Darwin's, SoL, CfC.
    Units: 84 Engineers, 1 Musketeer, 11 Riflemen, 12 Cavalry, 12 Transports, 1 destroyer, 1 dip, 1 van, 2 explorers.
    Romans: Destroyed by me
    Russians: 2 cites, 25 techs. Monarchy, peace, 72g.
    Japanese: 1 city, 24 techs. Republic, peace, 92g.
    Germans: 2 cities, 24 techs. Repu, peace, 11g.
    Vikings: Destroyed by me
    Persia: Destroyed by me
    Chinese: 1 city, 24 techs. Monarchy, peace, 98g.
    Greeks: 8 cities, 18 techs. Despo, peace, 225g.
    Mongolia: 4 cities, 35 techs. Republic, peace, 315g.
     
  14. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    Last part:

    1505 AD
    Population: 77.08 Cities: 183 Government: Democracy
    Gold: 7823 Cost per turn: 598 Total advances: 86 Production: 1025 MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Pyramids, HG, Marco, Colossus, Michelangelos, Shakespeare, Lighthouse, Great Library, Copernicus, J.S. Bach, Isaac Newton, Oracle, Great Wall, King Richard, Leonardo, Adam Smith, Darwin's, Statue of Liberty, Eiffel Tower, Women's Suffrage, Hoover Dam, United Nations, Apollo Program, Seti program, Cure for Cancer.
    Units: 1Settlers, 129 Engineers, 4 archers, 3 legions, 6 pikemen, 19 musketeers, 1 fanatic, 1 Alpine Troops, 1 Riflemen, 13 Dragoons, 1 Cavalry, 1 Armor, 1 Cannon, 4 Howitzers, 1 fighter, 6 transports, 8 Spy, 5 freight.

    1890 AD (just before victory)
    Population: 941,22 M Cities: 251 Government: Democracy
    Gold: 9791 Cost per turn: 7791 Total advances: All Production: 2349 MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: All
     
  15. WildPony

    WildPony Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    One city challenge, multi gold edition. King, 7 civs, 100x100, roving bands. Planning to build a size one settler but with a warrior first in the hopes of opening worthwhile huts including possibly an off path tech, preferentially bronze working (edit: the off path hut tech ended up being Horseback Riding).

    Note that i played this game up to 3450bc shortly after getting Horseback in a hut, saved and played it two ways as a comparison.

    This first game logged here was played with Monarchy first, then trade. Overall path to trade was as follows: Alphabet, Code, (horse from Hut), Ceremonial, Monarchy, Bronze, Currency, Trade.

    The comparison game in the post to follow was played with Republic first then Trade and includes being forced off path to Bronze before Republic. The overall path to Trade in that game was Alphabet, Code (horse from Hut), Bronze (forced 2nd off path tech from Republic), Writing, Literacy, Republic, Currency, Trade.

    There were other factors at play, but... Any predictions as to which game went better as far as a 1ad comparison?

    4000: Amazing riverlands 4 special starting spot on the oceanfront and so i built without delay.
    3950: > Alphabet (10). > Warrior.
    3850: Alphabet > Code of Laws (18).
    3800: Warrior > Size one settler.
    3600: First hut: Horseback riding. No more huts for now, likely not until after Marco's. Code of laws cost shifts to 27 beakers.
    3400: Code of Laws > Ceremonial. (Tech path did not allow writing).
    3100: Size one settler > horse... and 20 food fills the box.
    3050: 1 > 2. Settler joins city, 2 > 3. With 3 spice and S60 / T40, Science is 8, Tax is 5, Shields are 1, Food surplus is 2. Lux set to 30% to initiate a despotism celebration.
    3000: Celebration. Lux has to remain at 30 to maintain celebration . New numbers: Science 10 (+2), Tax 1 (-4), Lux 5, Food surplus: 6 (+4).
    2950: Ceremonial > Monarchy (55). Will be able to reach Oedo 2650 with 5 beakers to spare.
    2650: :king: Monarchy :king: > Bronze (66). 56+10 Without a food benefit, celebration is no longer worth the sacrifice in gold to me, so i choose S70 / T30.
    2600: 3 > 4 (exploring warrior returned home just in time to manage the martial law). All 4 specials in use, 3 spice and 1 silk. Income: Science 14, Gold 6, shields 3, food surplus: 5.
    2550: 1st Horse > 2nd horse. Horse ventures out to open up some surrounding black.
    2400: Bronze > Currency (84).
    2200: 2nd horse > building towards Marketplace. With shield production so low, decided to await Trade to build Marco's with 3 or 4 caravans and to built the Marketplace first which will provide a lot of value once Trade is completed and Tax rate is shifted to 70%.
    2100: Currency > Trade (104).
    1950: My horse met the Vikings. 10 diagonals north and 3 west. They offered to trade pottery for ceremonial, i asked if they would accept monarchy instead and they scoffed. I preferred not getting any techs yet anyway, but would have taken one for Monarchy (hopefully map making and the chance to trade maps) to get a peek at what they had. Peace.
    1750: Trade > Map Making. Tax to 70%, Science to 30. After finding 3rd Viking city, Horse is sent home (by them) 4 turns before he is needed to help out with marttial law.
    1600: Marketplace > 1st Wonder caravan. Gold income 15 > 22. As gold permits the plan is to rush caravans incrementally along the way, a cost effective option that would not have been permitted if the wonder was being built on its own. As a part of this it would be nice to have a 30 shield unit to build (but i don't at this time).
    1550: My 3 military units are all at home in anticipation of city growth next turn. Since i now have trade, will seek to trade with the Hostile vikings. Incited war with them as the first step.
    1500: 5 > 6. Gold income remains 22, science increased from 6 > 7. Approached Vikings, refused to tribute them a tech, cease fire, i offered a tech trade, they had only pottery and wanted ceremonial with Monarchy not provided as an option... then they ran off.
    1450: Gifted them Monarchy.
    1350: 1st Wonder caravan.
    1150: 2nd Wonder caravan.
    1000: 3rd wonder caravan. Roman horse came to my city, traded them for Writing which is all they had, gifted them Monarchy, peace.
    975: He's sitting on one of my grass/river/shield squares, insisted he leave and he declared war. One of my horses attacks and vets. Lux 10%.
    925: 4th wonder caravan > Marco's. 2 Viking horses on my land in Hostile / cease fire and i incite war with them to avoid their possible sneak attack and trusting in my fortified river defenders.
    900: 6 > 7. 2 Vike horses both attack and both lose, vetting my 2nd horse in the process, but not my warrior.
    900: :wavey: Marco's :wavey:. > 1st trade caravan. T70 / S20 / L10.

    Approached Neutral Greeks first and with such a decent attitude they surprised me by demanding 50 gold tribute and making war with me when i refused.
    Approached Neutral Japan and traded for Mysticism and Warrior Code.
    Approached icy Mongels, tributed them Warrior Code, Peace, traded for Map Making and Masonry.. gifted them one more tech to cordial, map trade.
    Back to japan, gifted them map making and their in progress tech masonry and another and traded maps.
    Approached icy persians, gifted them Map making, peace, Traded the wheel, for monarchy, gifted another tech to cordial, map trade.
    Approached enraged Romans in war, gifted map making, peace, gifted monarchy and their in progress tech to cordial and traded maps.

    Have 4/6 maps and all techs except still need:
    iron from the greeks and to give them horse (their in progress tech) and monarchy.. and to trade maps.
    to gift the Vikings map making and to trade maps.

    875: > Iron Working (Literacy not offered and since the Greeks have iron i plan to get it from them).
    850: Greeks still not playing nice.
    825: 1st trade caravan (hide) > 2nd . Spent gold down to 25 to open up diplomatic options with the greeks. gifted tech, peace, gifted to cordial, they refused to trade me iron working, but they did trade maps. Peace with the Vikings, gifted them map making and traded maps which is the final map i needed.
    775: 2nd trade caravan (Silver) > 3rd.
    700: 3rd trade caravan (Hide) > 4th.
    650: Romans complete Literacy and will not trade it. Greeks acquire poly and add this to iron working as techs i do not have. The developing theme here is that i need a stronger military to gain the respect of these adversaries so they will want to trade techs with me and it's possible i will also need to attack them and bring damage.
    625: Hide. Celebration (to Republic numbers). 1st trade of game, demanded Hides to nearby Kaupang: 148 and this seems to trigger my Hide supply to disappear. Beakers are full for Iron working, but i will not finish it at this time since multiple ais are researching it and i hope to trade them for it before moving onto the next tech.
    550: Salt > 1st diplomat. There is no more commodity supply for now.
    500: Iron Working > Literacy. Tried to gift iron to 3 civs and all demanded 50 gold and declared war when i refused. Very difficult game diplomatically with the Hostile ai unrelentingly refusing to trade me both iron and Literacy (as well as poly). (I finally finished iron because 2 more trades are ready to land). Demanded Silver to Upsala: 201. Demanded Hide to Kaupang: 148. Needing diplomats to bribe units to build up a military so the ai will trade tech with me.
    475: Literacy
    > Republic. 2nd Diplomat. Bribe of Roman horse for 52 gold (supported).
    450: 3rd Diplomat. Hostile vikings complete math and i trade them 3 techs for it because i don't want to risk the life of my dip in their territory with war. Gifted japanese their tech in progress which is iron working.
    425: 4th diplomat. Needed peace with Russia so they wouldn't kill my caravans and dips, forced to pay 100 gold for it. Meanwhile hope to be bribing several of their units. They continued to refuse to trade for their tech but upon reaching cordial they did make an updated map trade.
    400: Bribed the roman chariot for 92 gold that would have killed my silk caravan last turn and it's a none unit. Bribe a none Viking horse for 95 gold.
    375: 7 > 8. 5th Diplomat > 1st wonder caravan. Due to the recent aquisition of 3 additional military units, 3 of 6 adversaries are now at uncooperative rather than hostile. Gifted the vikes 3 techs to get them their tech in progress, then one more to get them to cordial+ for an updated map trade. Gifted Math to the Romans, their tech in progress.
    350: Paid 80 gold for a none Roman horse.
    325: Now 5 of 6 adversaries are at uncooperative instead of Hostile and this greatly opens up my opportunities to trade techs.
    300: 6th of 6th adversary the Greeks also became uncooperative this turn. they wanted peace, traded them for Polytheism, gifted them another tech to cordial and got an updated map trade. Approached Persians who wanted peace. Gifted poly to them and gifted then lit to cordial and got an updated map trade. Gifted India 2 techs and then their tech in progress which is poly and got an updated map trade. Updated treasury: 64 gold.
    275: Gifted persians 1 tech plus masonry (their in progress tech). Bribe of roman warrior (none) for 48 gold.
    250: 1st wonder caravan. Invested 49 gold in another none Viking warrior which keeps the scales tipped in favor of the ai wanting to trade techs with me.
    225: Romans develop Seafaring and are happy to trade me for it. I gifted it to the persians who were researching it.
    200: Hide supply opens back up along with a gold. Each adversary is now researching an unchartered tech so i do not need to gift anything to them.
    175:
    150: Hide.
    75: Hide. Vikes develop Astronomy and i trade them for it. Gifted Indians 2 techs plus their tech in progress Astronomy.
    50:
    25: Hide. With rome making war, landed my 3rd trade of game, silk which was not demanded anywhere to Veii with a bonus of only 120. Research on Republic is now at about 40%.
    1ad: Hide. Spent gold down and gifted Romans astronomy for peace (they are not building a wonder).

    1ad Summary: Size 8 Monarchy (SLoooooooow start, no Republic, no construction and no size 12). 21 Techs. Wonders: Only Marco's. Buildings: Only Marketplace. Units: 5 trade caravans, 1 food caravan, 5 dips, 1 chariot, 5 horse, 3 warriors. Treasury: 58 gold.

    If interested, please feel free to compare this game to the next one in the following post which had the same start up until 3450 and which went Republic instead of Monarchy... and maybe one or more players will choose to play their own one city comparison game. With this game in particular, the multi gold hostile ai version was particularly difficult in which to thrive, most especially in the area of being able to trade techs with the foreign civs.
     

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