GOTM 13 - First Spoiler

ainwood

Consultant.
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
30,080

GOTM 13 First Spoiler



Reading Requirements:

1. Have reached at least 0 AD.
2. Have contact with all other civilizations on the starting continent.

Posting Restrictions

1. Please do not discuss events past 500 AD.
2. No screenshots or discussions of events not on the starting continent.

Ideally, this should be a more relaxed game to allow you to fill in time over the festive period. It appears that a lot of you have completed it already!

Tell us about the early game.
 
Cooooo! Me first! Me first! Me first!

Wowee! A game with something different for everyone. I love the being on an island set-up, where you have to go for lots of science, and axerushing to victory is impossible (unless you can somehow pursuade axemen to swim oceans). Thanks Ainwood, that's a cool, different, map. And of course for anyone who isn't going for conquest/domination we have another nice challenge: A powerful unique unit, and the resource for it cunningly situated so that almost the only way you can actually build your unique unit is if you've already conquered everything else on your starting continent, and you therefore don't need to build it! I'm not so sure whether I want to thank Ainwood for that :mischief:.

The Plan: Oracle Beats Mince Pies

Spoiler :

But anyway onto the grand Dynamic-Spirit attempt to whisk the glorious Spanish into space faster than ever before. The cunning plan involved beelining for the Oracle, getting a COL-slingshot (yeah, I know, imagination and novel untried approaches is my middle name), then using a prophet to get theology. Oh, and stealing workers from my near opponents to weaken them so I can get bigger and fatter faster without having to consume too many mince pies.

So I founded in-place and proceeded to tech towards writing/priesthood while my little warrior a-went-exploring. I researched polytheism first and got Hinduism :goodjob:. Meanwhile the warrior went West. He went South. He went North-West. In short, he went everywhere that the Russians weren't, until he got eaten by a bear, 3-4 tiles short of probably discovering Russia. Here is a lesson in the vast impact that minor chance decisions can have. I'm pretty sure if I'd moved the warrior North to the hills-jungle tile, he'd have lived, and the game would've turned out very differently, but in a moment of carelessness I moved him NE to the hills tile.


Those Damned BC Years: Alone Again, Or…?

Spoiler :

Well of course at this point I'm convinced that I'm alone on the continent (It's obvious from the coastline that I've explored everywhere except a tiny corner of the continent, and had no contact with anyone), so I cease almost all military building to focus on the Oracle, which gets built for nice, early, Oracle slingshot, in 1450 BC. Wow, I'm happy, this game is going well. Of course at this point I have only one city, but this city is home to two religions (I'm just drooling at the thought of the two shrines and Wall Street and the gold). and I have all the time in the world to expand to fill MY continent. Ainwood, if at this point I could found an Ainwood-worshipping religion, I would. And I'd convert to it instantly.

Then a Russian archer shows up.

Bugger.

Of course, the Russians are polite, and agree to open borders. And I think, hey, that's not too bad, I want a spaceship victory anyway, I can do with a tech-trading partner. At this point it's far too late for a worker-steal to be effective, so I may as well be friends instead.

So I research to alphabet.

Will Peter trade any techs?

Will he heck.

Bloody inscrutable Russians. So polite, so accomodating, but the moment I try to get them to agree to anything remotely useful, I just get 'We don't want to start trading away this technology just yet'. I suspect it may have something to do with me being the only person they know, but I don't quite know how the game mechanics works in that regard.


Golden Brown: Who's going to Strangle the Barbs?

Spoiler :

Anyway, run back in time a little, The moment the Oracle was complete, I started settler-pumping to found a few more cities, and teching to find where the resources are. I'd been continuing to map out the continent, and planning my 2nd city. I was going to put it where I bet everyone playing GOTM13 has put it. By that lovely gold.

OK, I was going to, until this happened:



(Screenshot's from a little later in the game, but you get the gist).

That's the second problem that was caused by losing the warrior. I didn't have enough units around to explore and simultaneously fogbust round the gold.

Bugger. That's going to set my science back a lot.I have only archers too, no chance of capturing the city for quite a while. (And I'm also discovering the lack of any copper or horses nearby).

Oh well, I do the best I can, I sneak a settler round the barb borders and found Barcelona on the floodplains to the South.


Ain't No Prophet

Spoiler :


One good thing. My prophet-slingshot plan works. I get civil service in 170AD. I think that's a respectably early date. Unfortunately, around this time I realize that civil service is next to useless for my situation. Why? Well not only is the capital not in a brilliant location, but I need two more prophets to found shrines. And because great prophets are hard to get, I need those before I have my great-person farm up and running. So of course I'm running two priests in Madrid, basically stopping it from growing. (I'm starting to discover that prophet-CS-slinghot + 2 religions doesn't work quite as well in practice as the idea sounds).


Run to those Maiden Iron Hills

Spoiler :

Anyway, city #3. I've actually earmarked a couple of sites, as shown on the screenshot.



Again the screenshot is from a bit later coz I didn't save often enough, it shows the cities actually founded, but at this stage this was just the plan.

  1. Seville. Will get me copper and elephants, but I'm reluctant to settle there just yet as it's a long way away. If I can get iron first, I might find somewhere nearer to settle to build swordsmen.
  2. Cordoba. Will make an excellent great-person-farm (after I've done a lot of jungle-clearing)

But for now the preferred spot is Spot 3, 7 squares North of the capital, you know, on the hill NW of the fish. That'll be instantly useful as a cool commerce centre. It's still a bit far from the capital but looks a good site. I get the settler ready to wander over there.

But I hesitate. I really need resources to get me some defence should Mr-smug-'we-don't-want-to-trade-this-tech-away' turn nasty on me. I'm close to getting ironworking, and that copper really is miles away, and swordsmen would be better than Axemen for restoring civilization to Ligurian and putting that gold to use. I have visions of founding the 3rd city then discovering iron just outside any city radius. So I decide to keep the settler in Madrid for the 10 turns or so before I get iron working, then I can decide where to settle. I mean, speaking hypothetically, yeah, there might be gold near spot 3. Just for sake of argument, there might be iron located at - shall we say - the plains tile immediately to the North of it. And if so, I'll be very happy to have settled there. But if the iron turns up somewhere else and I have no settler ready to nab it, then I'll probably wish I hadn't used my settler.

So I wait.

I discover iron working.

Of course, all you guys reading this know exactly where the iron is. You know what I've just discovered, don't you.

Actually, you probably don't. What I discovered was much worse. It looked a bit like this:



Yep. Mr-smug-'we don't want to trade this tech away' has just settled in spot 3. The very same tile. And he's got the iron. (And yes that was a later screenshot. If I hadn't kept the settler waiting, I would've just got there first)


Glorious Achievements

Spoiler :

Let's recap, shall we. Here be the grand Spanish achievements, c. 500BC.

  • Lost two of the three gift-city-spots.
  • Got no strategic resources.
  • Got no worthwhile trading partners.

But in, the words of one Pious_Pete from some other recent GOTM/WOTM write-up, 'It's not all bad.'

  • I have built the Oracle.
  • I have a couple of warriors (and even one or two archers)
  • I'll soon be able to get myself an extra couple of hammers per turn by running civil service giving me 150% times almost nothing instead of 100% times almost nothing in the capital.

Btw @Pious_Pete: You related to Peter the Great by any chance? If so, do you mind having a word with him about the mutual advantages of tech trading?

At this point, I take the only option left. The copper might be miles away. It might damage my economy. But I've gotta go for it. So I send the settler up to found Seville and another to found Cordoba.



Summary

Spoiler :

And that's where I'm at around 500AD. Screenshot shows my empire



(Yeah I know it's actually in 575AD, but I don't have a 500AD save and it doesn't give any spoiler info away as the 500AD map would look almost exactly the same. So Ainwood, please, posting that screenshot can be tolerated can't it? Go on. Be nice. You owe me one for the nasty horsie-location anyway.)

Don't get me wrong, this isn't disastrous. I've no doubt I'll win the game. At the rate I'm going it may be a spaceship win around 2049AD but I'm sure I'll get there. It'll just be a bit slower (well probably a couple of hundred years slower) than it would've been if a certain bear hadn't eaten my warrior, thereby leading me to play as if noone else was around.

I would erect a monument to the bear and his historical achievements, but I don't think the warrior's family would appreciate it.
 
Seeing how this was my first entry to the GOTM, let alone playing at this level I chose to play the Adventurer Class. Despite the early unit advances, I still made many mistakes and made them often.

I founded Madrid in place and sent my units off exploring. A few turns into the game I ended up meeting Peter of Russia. Eventually I lost my early Adventurer units (with the exception of the workers who were a moot point anyways due to the lack of any tech that would have made them useful the first few turns) to Barbs and thus any edge it may have given me.

Tech-wise I tried to get on the Spiritual track to play off of Isabella's Spiritual strength by starting for Meditation (3580 BC) but lost Buddhism (3610 BC) one turn before I would have gotten it. By this time I lost my early Adventurer Archer so I figured the next sensible path would be Hunting (3310 BC) to get up to Archery. But instead I figured it was time to put that initial worker unit to work with the Wheel (2980 BC) and then Mining (2710 BC). Prior to starting Mining, Peter adopted Slavery in 2770 BC which prompted me to head for Bronze Working (2110 BC) when I realized I was already starting to fall behind the tech "8-ball" if you will. Once I was able to get my workers chopping I used it to begin my settlers (although now I think I should have started earlier instead of farming warriors). I didn't found my second city, Barcelona, until 2560 BC and it was placed directly west of Madrid to take advantage of the rice and pigs. This led me to tech Agriculture (1900 BC) and Animal Husbandry (1660 BC) next. Finally I could shore up my defense when I got Archery (1480 BC). Sent a settler down south to gain the marble and create my 3rd city, Seville (1360 BC) which sent me to tech Masonry (1270 BC) and Pottery (1090 BC) next. My fourth city came with Cordoba (1030 BC) placed just NW of Madrid to grab the gems, rice, pigs and bronze. During this time I was working on Writing (925 BC) in order to Open Borders with Peter and try to get on the early path to peace and friendship. With that out of the way it was time to get back to the initial religion plan. I figured Priesthood would be a good jump but apparently I'd been beaten to that so it was back to Iron Working (850 BC) and Sailing (625 BC) to build up defensively and get those galleys. Next I gave another shot at religion and this time came up successful as I was able to found Confuciousim with Code of Laws (310 BC). This newfound religion spread quickly through not only my lands but Peter's as well and by 160 BC I now had the religious ally I so desired.

But during this time my settlers weren't producing fast enough and I discovered that the Barbs has created 2 cities themselves (Thracian and Hun) with nice resources of rice, ivory and sugar, so I naturally decide a few archers could go take care of that and convince these to cities to join the cause. Well this was my next big mistake as it took wave after wave of archers (8 vs 3 at one point) and I still could not take the cities. Finally I wised up and created a few axemen and swordsmen and the apparently were more convincing joining Thracin (485 AD). During this frustrating time of wasting hammers on archers I was able to tech Math (190 BC), Calendar (25 BC)and Alphabet (155 AD). Once I had Alphabet, it was time to talk to Peter about some tech exchange and it was at this point I discovered that I had not only caught up to him but passed him up! By 500 AD I was on my way to Compass (but not quite yet) with hopes of heading out on the seas to seek out new civilizations.
 
Was playing Challenger, so, Ai got some bonuses, not that I noticed.

Well, from memory:

Settle in place,
research went
Meditation- miss biddism by 2 turns-mining-bronzeworking-farming-
well-masonry-pottery-priesthood
2050 Bc Barselona founded near Marble.

910BC Sevilly founded near gold
880 BC build Oracle in capital.

It was my by the way plan, if no one build oracle at time I connect Marble,
I was intended to build it and took Mettalocasting of it
So, Some preroaded forests and whipes give me Orcale in a few turns after I connected Marble and researched priesthood.
Plan was safe as I was not committed to Oracle untill I research priesthood.

460 BC Peter complited Pyramids, testy.

AFter Oracle I went

Saling and start build ligth houses and plan to chop Great ligthhouse.
There is only Peter on our continent, but still, continent is big and
GL is good for city spamming. 2 commerce/city just from interciv trading.

310 BC I build GL in Capital.
Reaseach went
sailing-animal hasbentry-writing-
Iron working
and here I discover that Peter allredy took Iron cite and there is 2 barbarian cities between me and cooper. Darn.
I was not worring mach, as we have ivory and what else one need then elephants and cats?

IW-Mathematic-construction

Start to build GL in Barselona, floodplains city.
175 BC I founded 4th city
on hill in jungle near Gems.
175 BC Imhotep was born in Moscow
and 160 BC Peter used it to build Panteon, very testy.
70BC Moses was born in Thiebes.
GP, good, I need religion,
so I made a detour to Politheism-Monotheism and used it to get Cristianity
in 125 AD, when I addopt theocracy.

research went Alphavit-Litherature.

As you can see I did not made any trades with Peter, he had nothign to offer.

in 155AD he converted to Cristianity, temporary becoming my baddy.

255AD I cuptured first Barbaruan city.
Some where in that time peter demanded somehting form me and I tell him to go away.
He send stuck of 3 chariots runnign around my land, but after looking on my elephants he decided better and set tigth.

320 AD Peter claimed cooper cite, leaving me with out mettalls. I allready planded t attack him, as he own Piramids and Panteon in Moscow.
So I start to plan a Firats Greate War for mettals.
380 AD I cupture second barbarian city and my war preparation in a full swing.
470 AD I finished Greate Libriry and ready to attack Peter.

There I live you in suspecion, awayting the word of the greate war for Mettal!

Viva the Isabella the Cristian!

There state of my civ 140 AD, th eonly save I have of this time.
State_of_my_civ_140_AD0000.JPG
 
Early game:

Spoiler :
I started out this particular game without a specific plan in place. As a general rule I like to start out the first 100 turns or so trying to keep my options open. Like how I play in a poker tournament, where I don't make any conscious plan to play aggressive, or tight, or loose, or wild, or anything, I rather enjoy adjusting myself to my surroundings, especially on a challenger start on an unpredictable map on a difficulty level that I'm still not 100% comfortable with.

I went for Meditation first, maxing out my commerce just to be safe. Unlike some others, it appears, I was able to nab Buddhism, and rubbed my own Buddha belly in celebration.

Early scouting revealed what others have pointed out: a gift city spot with access to pigs, rice, silk, gems, and goldx2, as well as the FP-happy spot on the southern tip of the continent. Barcelona is founded early, on the gold spot; after the settler and a worker is out, Madrid starts working on some Oracle goodness.


First contact...

Spoiler :
I make contact with Peter early, my warrior stumbling upon Moscow to find him crushing me in score. Buddhism spreads in St. Petersburg, and he converts. We're happy. We're friends. All is good. Once I determine it's just us on the island, I decide not to make Alphabet that high a priority, since all that will be required for tech trading is one of us getting it.

My first priority is the Oracle, and it's coming along nicely, coinciding with my research of Writing within a few turns and nabbing me Code of Laws, founding Confucianism in Barcelona.


Barbarians attack! Spain lucks out! In a serious way!

Spoiler :
Not long after the barbarians upgraded from animals to warriors, I spot a lone warrior bearing down on Barcelona (my good city on the gold), and realize with horror that I've left it undefended. Stupid mistakes like that are still a big part of what plagues me in this game - I get focused on one aspect of the game and leave another completely in the lurch. That was showing in full force as the barbarian warrior found itself planted on the rice patties to the NW of Barcelona, staring at an undefended city, with no possible means of developing a warrior for another turn. My warrior in Madrid was racing to defend the city, but would arrive one turn too late. In a desperation move I send my Worker one spot to the east of the warrior, hoping he would take the bait and gank the worker instead of the city, but I lucked out... the stupid barbarian warrior decided it would be more fun to pillage a rice patty than to pillage a city!!! I hope his barbarian boss ripped him a new one for that, because, my interests aside, that was just plain stupid. But I am not - repeat, NOT - complaining!

My warrior from Madrid arrives just in time to save the city. I breathe out a Spain-sized sigh of relief. What can I say, some games are just blessed.

Not long after I found Cordoba, in range of six flood plains, three hills, and marble. Now that's what I call a city! I research BW, finally, to find no copper in my vicinity. Well, crap. I research AH to find no horses in my vicinity. Well, crap. At least I have a couple of nice cities going.

Somewhere along this timeframe, Peter switches from Buddhism to Confucianism (it has randomly spread to Moscow, and I think he needed it for the happiness), and, not ready for a war, and because Confucianism is the religion that's spread to Cordoba, I follow suit. I rarely play with Spiritual leaders, but I could really get used to this "no anarchy" thing...

Time passes, and I grab a couple of important prereq technologies, including Mathematics. I also note the presence of a few good potential city sites around the copper up in the NW. Unfortunately, arriving at the site, I see that there are two barbarian cities overlapping the two sites I wanted to choose from. Well, crap. I take an escorted settler three squares north of a barb city to put it in range of a FP, rice, and copper, and found Seville. That'll have to do.

Unfortunately, the constant pressure from the barbarians below and to the right of it makes Seville a tough startup, consistently having to sacrifice population for archers. I finally throw a worker on the copper, escorted by a 3.3 archer, fortified on the copper to 20%. The AI throws a single, unupgraded archer at mine, and I lose! CRAP! Karma for the AI not sacking Barcelona when it had the chance, I suppose. It was quite some time before I got the copper online ... it took Construction, two war elephants out of Barcelona and Madrid, and two barb cities sacked, one razed, one occupied. Anasazi is in a keeper of a location, with three FP, two pachyderms, gems, and a river running through almost every square.


That's pretty much where I ended at 500ish, having rushed to Construction and used War Elephants to stomp some barbarians (that may take me a bit beyond 500, but not so much as to be meaningful for the spoiler). Construction was certainly the answer for me in the early game...

Next up: Russia switches religions on Isabella. You know that can't be good...
 
Here is a lesson in the vast impact that minor chance decisions can have. I'm pretty sure if I'd moved the warrior North to the hills-jungle tile, he'd have lived, and the game would've turned out very differently, but in a moment of carelessness I moved him NE to the hills tile.
...
Bloody inscrutable Russians. So polite, so accomodating, but the moment I try to get them to agree to anything remotely useful, I just get 'We don't want to start trading away this technology just yet'. I suspect it may have something to do with me being the only person they know, but I don't quite know how the game mechanics works in that regard.

Nice reading, Dynamic Spirit :) Good Luck!
I always try to move in forest in my games, and if I have a scout, I ensure that he ends in forest as well. It doesn't always help (I lost my warrior even in forest in this game :cry: ) but I think it's worth any detours involved. And after two victorious battles, I can upgrade him to Woodsman and improve my chances in the future. It is one of the more nervous moments in my games when moving around the first warrior on plains. And I agree that the fate of the first warrior has a very big impact on the rest of the game.

And yes, I was very upset too with the Russians refusing to trade tech. I thought it was a something special with Peter, but now when you mention it, I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that the AI is reluctant to trade if he only knows the player. This could of course be a myth. Could someone confirm (either through experience or pointing to a post)?
 
@DynamicSpirit (#2)..

"Bloody inscrutable Russians. So polite, so accomodating, but the moment I try to get them to agree to anything remotely useful, I just get 'We don't want to start trading away this technology just yet'. I suspect it may have something to do with me being the only person they know, but I don't quite know how the game mechanics works in that regard."


I of course saw this same message from the Russians, and was initially perplexed by it, but then remembered that I read in one of the treads on this board (I cant remember which, so cant give proper credit to the originator) that this specific message means that the AI *thinks* it has a monopoly on the tech. Of course at that point I realized that with only two civs on our Island, it will think that about every thec until astronomy, and thus is pretty useless as an ally....
 
I started this game without a specific plan for victory other then a general notion that my Conquistadors need to be excersized :ar15:, and that I would try to pay for a sprawling empire using a shrine :jesus:

So, in 4000BC I decided to found in place and work the lake for the two commerce to try and insure a religion. Moreover, I opt for Poly which often is the safer of the two early religions.

After the first turn I pause to do a simple calculation just for fun, and neccessarily because I think I will need it :mischief:... From mousing over the score, I see there are 964 land tiles on this map. The victory condition tells me I need 60% for domination. That means I need to control 579 squares. I already own 5! Only 574 to go :devil:


I sent my warrior out to explore the world, and started work on a workboat to brign the clams in asap. Buddism was FIDL in 3580, dnd I got Hinduism in 3460.

During this time, my scouting warrior has discovered the southern floodplane which I plan to make a GP farm, and the gold hills for another nice city. He then headed up towards the north, as I started minning to try and find copper.

I met Peter in 3110 and decided to bring the warrior back home for protection (He just mad it, evading the bear). I also built a scout for more scouting as I still was not sure if we were only two on the continent. He unfortuntaly was short lived and died to the bear in 2410 (despite being on a forrested hill).

I produced a settler and founded Barcelona near the gold, which, with one border expansionw would seal of the southern plan for future colonization.

I built the Oracle in my capital in 955 (through chopping) and took metal casting with it. In 450BC came a barbarian rush. Lacking metals, I had to whip 4 archers to defend myself.


Not much nothworty happened until 500 AD... I beelined to constructions for cats and pachyderms, and did rush a nice barb city in 380 AD. As of 500AD, I am still friends with Peter, and still do not have any horsies for my UU, so it looks like a cat+elephant rush to the north is in the offing.
 
I accidently deleted my game, so I won't be uploading. But it didn't matter much: I lost somewhere around 500AD. In Madrid, I tried for the oracle right after creating a settler for a second city. I aimed for the gold in the west, but the settler was eaten by a hidden barbarian. Madrid continued with the oracle, since I figured I needed the science boost. At this point, I had already tried tech trading with Peter and had given me the finger. The only other game I've had a problem tech trading was in a similar situation with Korea -- on another GOTM. I think if the AI doesn't know anyone else, he won't trade with you. Since I don't have enough experience with this, I really didn't know how to react. I noticed that Peter's cities were much larger, and better developed (with farming and such nearby). I decided to try and catch up. Unfortunately, I only had three cities by the time he had claimed almost the whole island, and when he decided to come at me with axemen, I only had warriors and archers. I did manage to find iron and start to build my defenses, but he had chariots. With the chariots, Peter smashed my resources and captured my workers. It was a quick conquer defeat.

I had a lot of trouble with this map, mostly because I assume I can trade away for the small techs in the late BC era. Oh well, that's what assuming gets you...
 
Okay; to summarize the BCs

4000 B.C. Settler in place.
3550 B.C. Buddhism
3340 B.C. Hunting
2770 B.C. Archery
2470 B.C. Settle Madrid
2290 B.C. Bronze Working
1990 B.C. Priesthood
1570 B.C. Oracle, got Monarchy. (Divine Right)
1150 B.C. Iron Working
1060 B.C. Settler (at this point still unsettled)
835 B.C. Stopped a small barbarian attack (1 warrior, 1 archer)
760 B.C. Animal Husbandry
535 B.C. Have Iron (start building swordsmen, etc…)
370 B.C. Place 2 archers by barbarian settlement (Gespid) that attacked me
65 B.C. Start building swords to take over Gespid, leave two archers there that will stay in Gespid after I take it over.

My situation at 65A.D. (see screenshots)

I may have missed some techs in there, but you get the idea. I was glad to get the Oracle in 1570 B.C. I plan on beating back the Russians with a swordman army, not waiting for catapults or horses (of which I havn't the resource, but the Russians do). I have, in 65A.D., 1 axeman, 6 archers, 2 spearmen, 4 swordsmen.

My wars are about to begin attack. First, I plan on taking the Barbarian city of Gespid with 3 of my 4 swordsmen. Then its on to Russia. I can see Russia has 5 archers and 1 spearman, but they have at least one more city I can't see but probably will have more by the time I get up there. After that, I will go for gold and science to try and keep up with everyone I havn't met who are trading amongst eachother, so it will be pretty difficult to keep up I am sure. Not exactly how I am going to do it yet.

485 A.D. (screenshot)

Right around 1A.D. I take Gespid.
260 A.D. Army gathered for Russian War
350 A.D. St. Petersburg (destroyed)
410 A.D. Moscow (kept)

Have taken Gespid and Moscow. Kept them both. I can see 3 more Russian cities, but there will be more. I plan on razing 2/3 that I see, I will keep Rostov. I will build my own city by the horses.

My army size at this point; 5 swords (more building), 3 axe, 4 spear (I sitll have not seen any Russian horses though), 9 archers. I will have to concentrate on science after the war! I also plan on hanging my Capital to Barcelona.
 

Attachments

  • 65AD_a.jpg
    65AD_a.jpg
    92.3 KB · Views: 198
  • 65AD_b.jpg
    65AD_b.jpg
    215 KB · Views: 196
  • 485-AD.jpg
    485-AD.jpg
    93.6 KB · Views: 212
Only my second GOTM and first ever Epic game so overall goal is win whilst avoiding low scoring wooden spoon awards.
Initial plan was to use Oracle to gain COL and confucianism as religion of choice. Settled in place and sent off warrior to explore went for BW first to enable chopping and locate nearby copper. Whilst exploring in the jungle my warrior was cut off by a bear, as I was already on jungle/hill I decided to dig in and fight thinking I would be safe(ish) at a strength of 2+80%ish v 3. Not so. Did not think of thsi as such a huge loss as had explored all nearby area and discovered no other civs and no copper.
After initial workboat for clams, then worker began to chop first settler, then came dilema, to go for spot to west for gold, gems rice et al, science commerce city or south to flood plains and marble poss gp farm. Decided to go south as marble would be useful with Oracle and flood plains could be farmed to help produce second settler quickly.
Built Oracle to get COL, used missionary to spread confuc' to recently discovered Russia and was well on way to settlers for new citys. :)
This point started to notice increased Barb activity. Firstly a few warriors, which were easily dealt with by couple of warriors I had scouting nearby. Then came a few archers just about held off by scouting warriors with now woodsman promos. Decide to divert to archery and delay settling by gold by few turns cos of marauding barbs but eventually seems clear to do so.
Then, disaster still a couple of turns short of archery, barb axemen appear.:sad: Lose recently settled Seville by the gold, just about manage to hang on to Madrid by couple of HP points and have number of improvements pillaged before having enough archers to restore balance. Look to resettle by gold but find barbs have settled in exact same spot, Doh. Have no hope of reclaiming this spot until can build something better than warriors or archers. After finding a lack of both horses and Iron as well as copper have to beeline to Constructuion before an attack can be contemplated.
Not a good start but am sure (well at least hopeful) that others are at least in a similiar predicament. Only main regeret is that if I had settled Barcelona to west in gold rather than in the south would have had some cultural defence bonus on the front line when the barbs attacked and therefore would hopefully not have lost this city.
Plan is to capture barb city with cats and elephants then hopefully settle a couple more to grab some more resources, then beeline to optics to find some more civs or poss land with strat resources to settle.

Have one question, I remember Peter spawned 2 GE's during early game in Moscow?? Is this normally possible?? or was he just lucky or a cheat?? Due to limits on enginneer specialists until industrial era I find it hard/impossible to get these before then!! :help:
 
Not long after the barbarians upgraded from animals to warriors, I spot a lone warrior bearing down on Barcelona (my good city on the gold), and realize with horror that I've left it undefended. Stupid mistakes like that are still a big part of what plagues me in this game - I get focused on one aspect of the game and leave another completely in the lurch. That was showing in full force as the barbarian warrior found itself planted on the rice patties to the NW of Barcelona, staring at an undefended city, with no possible means of developing a warrior for another turn. My warrior in Madrid was racing to defend the city, but would arrive one turn too late. In a desperation move I send my Worker one spot to the east of the warrior, hoping he would take the bait and gank the worker instead of the city, but I lucked out... the stupid barbarian warrior decided it would be more fun to pillage a rice patty than to pillage a city!!! I hope his barbarian boss ripped him a new one for that, because, my interests aside, that was just plain stupid. But I am not - repeat, NOT - complaining!
I believe that there is a 50% chance that they will pillage instead of walking-in to the undefended city (as long as there is something to pillage). Saved my capital (and only city) in one game....
 
Have one question, I remember Peter spawned 2 GE's during early game in Moscow?? Is this normally possible?? or was he just lucky or a cheat?? Due to limits on enginneer specialists until industrial era I find it hard/impossible to get these before then!!
Wonders is the way that this is done; this is probably a clue that Peter has the Pyramids. Also, were the Hanging Gardens built? It's not an uncommon strategy to use the GE from the Pyramids to build the Hanging Gardens in the same city, turning it into a super early GE farm (+8 per turn with a philosophical leader like Peter, +14 if he also has MC, a forge, and is running an engineer).

It's also possible that he has the Pyramids, is running science specialists from a Library, and got lucky with the second GP pop.

Could be good news for you, couldn't it? Peter probably has at least three wonders for the taking!

Wonders won are twice as sweet as Wonders earned.
 
As dawn breaks on the young Spanish settler, decisions are on the table. The mountain range in the south is rather foreboding, so he decides to take a gander to the north and heads for the elephants. After seeing, well nothing except possibly the outskirts of a jungle, he decides this would be a fine location to call home, and Madrid is founded right in the middle of a pachyderm herd. The people demand to know the mysteries of religion, Hinduism is the choice, and the scholars are put to the test. All of the village tradesmen are put work on a small boat, they believe it will be enough to help them grab the small shelled creatures hiding just offshore. In the meantime, all available troops are sent into the wilderness. They begin searching for all things unknown, which is pretty much everything at this point, and immediately begins looking for a way around those giant peaks to the south.

:jesus: Hinduism is founded in Madrid in 3460BC and people rejoice at their great fortune! Now the call goes out for metals, since we're not quite sure where to look, the task of Mining seems like a great way to begin to understand the intricacies and other small details associated with the eventual harvesting of non-precious ores. About that wandering warrior. He has discovered that indeed there is a way around the mountains, and a great (read GPP) floodplain lies on the other side. He has also discovered some other very interesting facts. There are some really great looking hills on the western shore of this landmass that seem to have plenty of food supplies for supporting a new settlement. As he continues his journey northward, one fact becomes abundantly clear. The jungle is thick and there is a lot of it! He puts in a call for reinforcements.

In 2560BC, the art of Bronze Working is discovered, unfortunately, there ain't no bronze or copper or any other substance to play with. The towns people of Madrid are starting to become a little concerned for their safety at this point, so the village elders decide it might be prudent to increase their skills at Hunting, figuring this has got to be able help them protect themselves as well as make the people forget, at least for the time being that there are no actual troops stationed for the defense of the city.:)

In 2470BC, the settlement of Barcelona is founded next to the golden hills in the west, and by 1090BC Hinduism had spread to the upstart village. The people of Barcelona are very peaceful in nature and undertake a great project, they hope to call it the "Parthenon", if they are allowed to complete it.

The tale of the wandering warrior heats up, as reinforcements begin to slowly trickle into the jungle behind him, only darkness lies ahead. He snakes is way northward, and suddenly, from a hilltop, the unmistakable appears on the horizon. An archer representing a ruler named Peter offers us peace or war! Since we're not quite sure who "Peter" is at this point, or how many archers may be following after this one, we gladly accept his offer of peace.

By 940BC the Spanish empire is ready to expand even further and it is decided that a city in the south would be rather easy to defend. So it is written, so let it be done. Seville it is named, hills and floodplains galore!

The scholars of the Spanish empire have really been doing an outstanding job. After mastering the skill of Hunting, in quick succession that was followed by Archery, Wheel, Pottery, Priesthood, and in 925BC Animal Husbandry. As in the case of our earlier discoveries, knowing what a horse is, won't allow you to play with 'em if you can't even find one.:sad:

Peter seems like a nice enough fella at this point, so we decide to research Writing next to see if he'll let us do a little exploring in the northern part of our shared homeland. Lo and behold, Peter is agreeable, and not only that, he seems to have access to that copper stuff, and horses also.

It's about 800BC now, and the Spanish are calling for more settlements. All available settlement sites are now situated in the jungles to the north, something must be done. The elders say Iron Working is our only hope, so it is written, so let it be done. Can you even believe the lousy luck of the Spanish, Peter has iron too, right next to that brand new city of his just north of Madrid! Just when it seems as if the Spanish didn't have bad luck, they'd have no luck at all, they catch a break. Hinduism has spread into the Russian empire, and Peter converts. Now the elders tell us that if we adopt Hinduism as well, Peter will be more likely to trade his knowledge with us. It's worth a shot!

At 580BC, we can start clearing the never ending jungle and begin to plan some settlements in the north. The scholars begin looking into Meditation and follow that up with Agriculture, Masonry, and Monotheism.

A great wonder of the world is created in 115BC. The people of Barcelona have completed their great project, The Parthenon draws artists from far and wide to marvel at its magnificence.

Northward expansion for Spain. Cordoba is the first of the new villages, it is founded in 70BC east of the gems and near the Russian border city with the iron.;) Also occurring in 70BC is a religious push by some of the Spanish citizens. The recent discovery of a Code of Laws has made it possible to pursue Theology, which it seems the people desire, who am I to argue.

:jesus: Christianity is founded in 200AD in the city of Cordoba. The discovery of Theology has allowed a new religion to spring forth from the land, and the people rejoice in their most certain abundance!

However, all is not well in the Spanish empire. The elders in Madrid are beginning to become concerned. There is very little land left for the burgeoning Spanish empire. It has been determined that the needs of the empire require at least 9 or 10 cities of significant size to reach our ultimate goals. The options appear to be rather limited. Something must be done about the "Russian Problem"! :confused: Given the lack of resources at the disposal of the arms makers, they implore the scientific community to come up with some alternatives. The scientists are very quick to respond. They determine that the study of Mathematics will allow them to study Construction, and this will give the arms makers the ability to create the powerful weapons they so desire.

In 320AD the scientists discover Mathematics. At this point, a Great Scientist that has been teaching to small groups of people, decides that the time is right for an astounding discovery. Nabu-rimanni heads for the hills to undertake some serious contemplation! After 5 short years of studying, he is enlightened, Philosophy must be the answer, even though we're not quite sure what the question was!

:jesus: Taoism is founded in 325AD in the city of Barcelona, and the people rejoice in their most certain abundance!

In 365AD the village of Toledo is founded on the western shore, north of Barcelona and very near to the small town of Visigoth which has just been captured from the barbarians by the evil Russian empire.

485AD! Preparation for the "solution"! The discovery Construction has opened the door, and the arms makers rush in! War Elephants and Catapults are the answer, and soon the Russian masses will be begging for relief.....
 
Hi,

only a short article from me here:

I also lost the iron to the north of capital due to hesitating about settling early (like DynamicSpirit). I was also very upset about Peter not willing to trade techs, since I eagerly beelined to Alphabet expecting that I can trade for all the urgently needed small techs during the turn I discover it. At least now I know that won't ever work again if the other civ and myself are alone on a continent (maybe Blake's AI behaves differently, I haven't tried it yet).
On the other hand this might give you valuable insight into the situation on your continent quite early, because if after Alphabet you find out your neighbour won't trade anything, this probably means that you two are alone (as in this case), and so you can plan accordingly.

I also found it very amusing that the Conquistador that was so heatly debated in the pre-game thread is quite worthless on this map since you don't have the resource for it before crushing the only civ that is blocking access to the very resource. Even if you had it IMHO it wouldn't be worthwhile to beeline to Guilds just to conquer one rival.

So after finding myself without Iron, Copper and Horses and making a few silly mistakes (because I wasn't very focused during play), I decided to beeline Construction and take care of Peter and the Barbs with Elephants and Catapults. This worked really well since he wasn't particularly well defended. The first city I took was the iron spot, only to get the mine pillaged by a Russion chariot due to carelessness (I could have moved my Axe onto the mine, but didn't :hammer2:). So a few more turns needlessly being without iron, but as far as I remember it didn't really matter.

The early game was a brilliant emotional rollercoaster (finding the gold hills gift spot, then finding out about Peter being unwilling to trade and the lack of horses and metal). I wish more maps would be like this.

--Sigi
 
Had a great time with this game. :D

Like Civicide, I rarely know within the first 100 turns what victory condition to go for. However, I was fortunate with my first warrior and he survived more than a few battles (Woodsman I & II) and helped found Russia and most of the starting continent. I used that first warrior to poach Peter's worker very early in the game (3070 BC). That bought me time to expand and focus on growth (this is Isabella after all).

One decision I made regarding techs was no religion. With all of these wonderful resources (and I was amazed at the number of them). I focused my research on growth techs.

Hunting (for the camps)
Mining (dars gold in dem dar hills!) :crazyeye:
Bronze Working (for seeking copper and choppin)
Archery (did you see the size of that BEAR!.....and the barbs)
Wheel
Agriculture
Iron Working (clear out them jungles) ...lookin for Iron
Masonary
Pottery (cottage spam time)
Writing
Mathematics
Construction (cats and oliphants!) time's up for Peter
and so on and so on..........

Speaking of Peter, once I saw him, I never hesitated to harass him. I stole his worker and circled his first city Moscow. He sent over his archer after a few turns (once it was built) but died attacking me (a bit of luck goes a long way...).

I did retreat with the worker (avoid that bear) and by then my own expansion was in full swing.

I settled Barcelona west with the gold. Next I founded Seville in the north and Cordoba in the south with all of those flood plains. I pushed out a few archers for the barbs which were menacing, but never too much to deal with (no axemen until later). Oops.......I see Peter lost Novgorod to the Barbs. Let's send a couple of archers to take it over after Peter's forces wear them out! ;)

I keep prioritizing the techs to cache in on the city's special resources. I didn't try (at this stage) for any of the wonders but beeline for Construction as soon as I felt ready for the couple of Barb cities and then Peter.

Once I had cats and Oliphants I took Chinook and Navajo (Barb cities). Peter's lost Novgorod provided me the horses, but now with Oliphants that didn't seem so important. Guilds tech was a long way off (for Conquistadors) and I wasn't planning on letting Peter stick around that long anyway............!

By 500 AD I had 9 cities (2 barbs and 1 from Peter thru barbs). I had no great people, no religions and no wonders. Peter had 3 cities and I had no further contacts with other civilizations.

By now I felt I was preparing for either a culture victory or a spaceship win.

Felt good about this continent's domination, but I had no idea what the others we doing. Would my isolation put me too far behind in the tech race? Was any of the other civs as comfortable as I was? The demographics hinted I was large and well populated but behind in the size of my armies. Would I be blindsided by one of the more aggressive civs shortly?



Most importantly...........have I expanded too much at the cost of a more efficient economy?
 
Felt good about this continent's domination, but I had no idea what the others we doing. Would my isolation put me too far behind in the tech race? Was any of the other civs as comfortable as I was? The demographics hinted I was large and well populated but behind in the size of my armies. Would I be blindsided by one of the more aggressive civs shortly?
These are also my usual fears after such a start that you had (a magnificent start, in my opinion BTW). For me it has turned out in all cases so far that you are actually ahead of all the others (on the other continents, that is), because they have more competition and therefore can't focus as much as you did in this game. It is only 500 BC and you are already taking off. If you manage your continent properly, the other civs won't have a chance of keeping up.

As for being blindsided by one of the aggros: I don't know if you are talking about the 500BC situation, but that wouldn't make sense, since Astronomy is still a long way to go for everyone. Until then you will have defenses if that turns out to be necessary (usually they pick on each other first before declaring on a completely new civ on a different continent, and even then they are easier to handle than on Pangea, because a strong navy will do half of the trick).

The only one of your concerns that I think might be valid is that you might be behind in tech, because the other pack will trade aggressively amongst themselves (as they always do), with you having to research everything yourself. In that case, just go for cultural :-). But probably even then you'll be able to catch up and retake the lead (by trading and because you will have an entire, very fertile, continent running at full blast in a few more turns).

--Sigi
 
Well, this game has been pretty amusing because most of everything I intended from the beginning went wrong. :crazyeye:

I did get Hinduism, as I expected, and I also got Confucianism when I mis-timed the oracle and was forced to take CoL with it.

I then went for alphabet because I didn't yet know that Peter and I were stuck on an island, alone, and that he would refuse to trade for the whole game, lol. So alphabet did nothing for me. After alphabet I tried to beeline for conquistadors, but this was also a waste, because I had no horses! :lol:

I got some of the early techs very, very late because of trying to beeline and having noone to trade with. The only techs I got from peter were ones that he gave me as part of peace treaties. When I began attacking him, I had only swords, axes and spears, no cats because I got construction so late. But he only had archers since we were both backward from no trading.

So I was able to get a good start conquering the continent by 500ad, but I didn't finish taking it until much later.
 
Wow, this is pretty early for me! I was intrigued by Spain's Conquistadors and their capabilities, so I'm leaning towards being a Warmonger this month! The extra couple of weeks helps as well.

Didn't like the opening location. Warrior moved and I saw a Hills/Forest/Plains space on river to the West. 2 Turns later I was there, and saw a Hills/Plains to the west of that. Looked a little nicer, more River spaces and less mountains, so moved again. Ahh! Pigs and Gold! Founded Madrid here. Missed out on the Rice, but got an extra Gold.

Those Pigs were hard to develop! I needed AH and BW to chop the forest on them. First Worker started irrigating any space it could (this location is very food poor); then mining the Gold when that was learned, chopped the Forest once BW was in, the finally pastured that Pig.

My initial Warrior became Bear food pretty quickly. As did the 2nd Warrior I sent out, but I did make contact with Peter. BW had revealed Copper; Peter had clear access to the one off the East coast, and had an easier shot to grab the 2nd one to his SW. It would take effort to grab this one.

Barcelona was founded in 1810 BC in the Floodplains Marble area to the SW. I was going to Irrigate this place as well and use it to generate Great People.

Started a War against Peter in 1750 BC, by grabbing an unprotected Worker. Unfortunately this Warrior and the Worker were ambushed by 3 Barb Warriors. Peter never did come very close to me, but he did capture a Barb city just to the NW up the coast.

Peace was eventually signed. I didn't need the health, so I gave him the Pig resource; eventually he signed Open Borders which gave me access to his cities. IW had revealed 2 Iron sources, one was way to the NW, and the other close to the initial starting location, and I found a 3rd waaaay to the North which Peter had founded near to and was preparing to work.

After working my way up to Alphabet (no trading ever, BTW, but we had been at war) I learned Hunting and Archery. Protected by a stack of Archers I was able to found Seville to the North, on the River, near the Copper. What a great location! The river allowed immediate access to resources, and the expanded Fat Cross of Seville had the Copper, Ivory, Rice and several Floodplains. And lots of trees to chop. I was going to make Seville a thorn in Peter's side!

Barcelona got its first GP, a GS, in 285 BC, which was used to build an Academy in Madrid.

Once I had access to Copper, I started building Axemen. Peter had founded near the Iron to the NE (just North of the initial starting location) and I intended to take that ciy. Declared war in 275 AD, and an Axeman stack captured this city (Yaroslavl); not a bad city with Pigs, Rice, the Iron and Fish within its expanded radius; let's get a library built! A Warrior in the far north pillages Peter's Iron up there; no additional Swordsmen for you! (If he's built any) The Axemen moved forward and captured St. Petersburg in 395 AD, taking his Copper away. This is where I've stopped for now.

Since learning Alphabet, I've been plugging away at the central set of Techs to get to CS without learning COL. I'm 3 turns away from finishing Feudalism. After that CS, and then the Ship techs (Sailing, Compass, Optics, Astronomy) to make contact and perhaps do some conquesting. I'm using a Scientist/Engineer combo in Barcelona to attempt getting a GE for Machinery. Otherwise I'll try for GS's.

With 2 Golds I perhaps should have tried for CS faster, and sorted out the other Techs and the metal situation later. However, I'm about to dominate my continent, and start perparing for the others. Should be fun!
 

Attachments

  • 40tm13_ad390_1.JPG
    40tm13_ad390_1.JPG
    126.1 KB · Views: 191
  • 40tm13_ad395_2.JPG
    40tm13_ad395_2.JPG
    155.1 KB · Views: 211
Fun game, fun map, a learning game for me, as for me it was the 1st time I played a game till the modern age. More in the next spoiler.

I started off with settling on the Ivory, and with workboat and mining I calculated to have a settler around 2900, which still could be a time to found hinduism directly in the 2nd city.

This worked out as planned, founded Barcelona 2770 E at the Gold, Seville S in the floodplains 1960 and Cordoba 1150 N at the Pig & Rice, which later brought me the iron, great :king: . Toledo I founded NW around the gems. Cherokee & Saxon, that were located between me and Peter, joined by cultural conviction. Who says one needs weapons ....!

Culturally I did pretty well. Founded Hinduism and Montheism and till 500AD I built Stonehenge, Pyramids, Parthenon, G Lighthouse, G Library and the Kashi V. in this order. Also I have the Heroic and National Epic.

GL's I got were Homer, Thepsis & Moses.

I didn't have any plan, things developed naturally, Peter adopted to Hinduism, so did I and that helped our relationship. By 500AD I occupied the S of our island, Peter the N and I left it that way.

Things were I can/could improve is the use of civics. Here I need to learn a lot. Also the trade sytem of CIV4 is still a black box for me, e.g. open borders having influence on gold was new for me, as were lots of things, especially later on :crazyeye:.

For completeness my tech dev tree in correct order till 500 AD: mining, poly, BW, Agri, Mason, Mono, Sail, AnHu, Hunt, Wheel, Pot, IW, Write, Math, Alph, Lit, Music and Calender

Have fun, I sure did, tx Ainwood :goodjob:
 
Back
Top Bottom