Djurre
Chieftain
Ah ok, that explains it. Thanks.
GOTM #14 *Spoilers* Thread
- Thread starter pdescobar
- Start date
Ah ok, that explains it. Thanks.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2001
- Messages
- 2,686
Originally posted by Moonsinger
How come no such luck ever happen to me!I opened two huts. The first hut was empty. The second one got three barbs. To make the matter worst, they slaughtered my warrior right on the spot. Then they headed straight for my nearest town. And they almost got away with my town too. My only warrior defending the town survived with 1 HP. I had only two towns and 3 warriors at this point; one warrior got killed by barb, so I was down to two; I gave up searching for any more huts after that.
It's good to see you were able to overcome the bad luck early on! Frankly anything I was able to do in my game is tainted by the two Settlers, no real satisfaction in it. If I already had a gold medal maybe I could have brought myself to disband the second one.*
I remember my first post here, which was actually an email to Matrix because my account hadn't been activated yet, was dealing with how an early Settler from a hut threw everything out of balance. In GOTM01 I had gotten one, my email was dealing with how much that had meant to my finish date (and thus score). I've always thought that huts should be removed from these types of competitive/comparitive games.
*Not to say I have a gold medal game, I think the highest score will be from someone who [Just realized this would be too much of a spoiler (hoping no one figures it out)
]. If I could do it again that's how I would have approached it.
Originally posted by Aeson
It's good to see you were able to overcome the bad luck early on! Frankly anything I was able to do in my game is tainted by the two Settlers, no real satisfaction in it. If I already had a gold medal maybe I could have brought myself to disband the second one.*
Even though you haven't had a gold medal yet, I have always considered you as a gold medalist on my list because very few player could survive the "worst starting position" on that iceberg and won.
I remember the time when you were alone on that iceberg and the barbs took all your golds, many people (including me) would have given up right there, but you still kept on going and going when there was very little hope. In a way, you have always inspired me to become better at this game. Thanks!
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Well, I guess my game wasn't too bad after reading some other posts (not as good as some, but just as good as others). I guess I'm just not used to having to wait so long to start on infrastructure, and fighting such a slow-progressing war. I think I just needed to be at peace for awhile to regroup my units, so I had a sufficient attack force again. Towards the end Persia wasn't hardly sending any units at me, but my forces were so drained I couldn't muster up an offensive. I know I had forced Persia to go to Monarchy, because I saw he was in Anarchy after he had already been a republic.
I think being non-industrious is what is making this game so frustrating for me. 36 turns for a slave to build a mine on a mountain!?!? I say, next time we play Deity, give us an industrious civ!
At 230 A.D., I still only had met the Zulu (and obviously Persia). The Zulu and Persia had Fuedalism as the only tech that I didn't have. Sun Tzu's had already been built by someone else. I had a 'strong' military compared to the Zulu. I might actually play this game out just to see how it turns out. Go to republic, stay at peace with Persia until I can get some marketplaces and cathedrals built, re-group my military, then wipe them out.
Here's 230 A.D.:
I think being non-industrious is what is making this game so frustrating for me. 36 turns for a slave to build a mine on a mountain!?!? I say, next time we play Deity, give us an industrious civ!
At 230 A.D., I still only had met the Zulu (and obviously Persia). The Zulu and Persia had Fuedalism as the only tech that I didn't have. Sun Tzu's had already been built by someone else. I had a 'strong' military compared to the Zulu. I might actually play this game out just to see how it turns out. Go to republic, stay at peace with Persia until I can get some marketplaces and cathedrals built, re-group my military, then wipe them out.
Here's 230 A.D.:
Well, I got off work early and managed to get my civ all the way into AD. In 250 AD, Xerxes was depeated. My civ immediately went Republic after that (had been in Depotism the dawn of civilization).
In 300AD, I disbanded two catapults to rush the first galley. More galleys will be rushed next turn. The invasion of Zululand will soon begin, but that I have to wait until next week because I don't have any more time to play for the rest of this week. My current world ranking as of 300AD is as follows:
In 250 AD, Xerxes was depeated. My civ immediately went Republic after that (had been in Depotism the dawn of civilization).In 300AD, I disbanded two catapults to rush the first galley. More galleys will be rushed next turn. The invasion of Zululand will soon begin, but that I have to wait until next week because I don't have any more time to play for the rest of this week. My current world ranking as of 300AD is as follows:
DaveMcW
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
- Messages
- 6,489
210 BC: My 5th suicide galley reaches the second continent. I use my world map and Monotheism to get tech parity.
110 BC: An Indian galley crosses the sea (they have the lighthouse). I sell all contacts.
50 AD: Cancel the peace treaty with Persia and trigger my golden age. Use my 160 gpt income to buy Invention, Gunpowder, and Chivalry from China. Then declare war on China to break the deal.
90 AD: Great Leader rushes Leonardo's Workshop.
130 AD: Peace with Persia to finish my golden age with no war weariness.
260 AD: Sell Chemistry for 120 gpt and tech parity.
330 AD: Sell Metallurgy for 70 gpt and tech parity.
400 AD: Sell Military Tradition for 80 gpt and tech parity (Physics).
I should be able to wipe out the Persians and Zulu before Nationalism.
110 BC: An Indian galley crosses the sea (they have the lighthouse). I sell all contacts.
50 AD: Cancel the peace treaty with Persia and trigger my golden age. Use my 160 gpt income to buy Invention, Gunpowder, and Chivalry from China. Then declare war on China to break the deal.
90 AD: Great Leader rushes Leonardo's Workshop.
130 AD: Peace with Persia to finish my golden age with no war weariness.
260 AD: Sell Chemistry for 120 gpt and tech parity.
330 AD: Sell Metallurgy for 70 gpt and tech parity.
400 AD: Sell Military Tradition for 80 gpt and tech parity (Physics).
I should be able to wipe out the Persians and Zulu before Nationalism.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Wow, fast tech pace Dave. I'm at 460 A.D. and nobody has chemistry.
I researched Theology myself and sold it to the Zulu for Fuedalism. Researched Education at the same time India and China sailed some ships by my shore. Through some tricky negotiating and 83 gold/turn (I'm still making 161 gold/turn at 0%science) I ended up getting:
Banking
Astronomy
Engineering
Chivalry
Invention
Gunpowder
Music Theory
Navigation
Access to all 8 luxuries
Everyone's world map
India was behind the others, so buying/trading for Banking and Astronomy from the others allowed me to get some other techs from India. Got invention from the zulu after trading the other techs. Didn't actually sell contacts until after the luxuries had been traded (so they wouldn't lose their value for 20 turns).
Made Persia lose their capital twice in one turn, and they will lose it again in the next turn. Persia is down to just their capital and 1 city in the tundra. With no iron and no horses anymore, they are easy. I'm in Republic (made the Persians break the peace treaty, so WW isn't too bad, only need 10% lux now that I have all 8 luxuries.
I think I'll build up my infrastructure some more and see what I can come up with. Researching myself will take too long, and at the moment there are only 3 choices to research, so I'll have to wait until I get more libraries and universities up before I try and do any research myself.
I have the lead in score over the Chinese by 200 pts and leading in many other categories, but I'm behind the Japanese and Zulu in culture (since when does the Zulu build culture?). Kyoto has 4 wonders already. Not sure if my next target should be the Zulu or Japan (to get his wonders/knock down his culture).
I researched Theology myself and sold it to the Zulu for Fuedalism. Researched Education at the same time India and China sailed some ships by my shore. Through some tricky negotiating and 83 gold/turn (I'm still making 161 gold/turn at 0%science) I ended up getting:
Banking
Astronomy
Engineering
Chivalry
Invention
Gunpowder
Music Theory
Navigation
Access to all 8 luxuries
Everyone's world map
India was behind the others, so buying/trading for Banking and Astronomy from the others allowed me to get some other techs from India. Got invention from the zulu after trading the other techs. Didn't actually sell contacts until after the luxuries had been traded (so they wouldn't lose their value for 20 turns).
Made Persia lose their capital twice in one turn, and they will lose it again in the next turn. Persia is down to just their capital and 1 city in the tundra. With no iron and no horses anymore, they are easy. I'm in Republic (made the Persians break the peace treaty, so WW isn't too bad, only need 10% lux now that I have all 8 luxuries.
I think I'll build up my infrastructure some more and see what I can come up with. Researching myself will take too long, and at the moment there are only 3 choices to research, so I'll have to wait until I get more libraries and universities up before I try and do any research myself.
I have the lead in score over the Chinese by 200 pts and leading in many other categories, but I'm behind the Japanese and Zulu in culture (since when does the Zulu build culture?). Kyoto has 4 wonders already. Not sure if my next target should be the Zulu or Japan (to get his wonders/knock down his culture).
Although I have decided to go on infrastructure I noticed that my 60+ units were eating my income in Republic. So I decided for another quick war with the Persians. I took one city easily as they were still defending with spearmen. The bloodbath continued for some 7 turns with the Persians loosing 2 to 1 unit of mine while I was using swords, bowmen, horses and they used Knights, Immortals. I tried to make peace as my armies were halved but the Persians didn't want to see my ambassador. I remembered that more wars meant harder to get peace. I was still building marketplaces and WW rose. When I only had 20 units I knew I was toast. I lost a core city in 360 AD. I threw my last four horses to defeat the two knigts and failed. I had little things to do for the following turns. I watched the Persians take two more core towns and barely escaped with the capital. I took one city back and was relieved to make peace in 430AD. The Persians treated with me as they lost but in fact it was me who lost this war and a lot of points in my final score as from now on I don't think I can ever take Persia. I have a very small window of opportunity for one of my former cities to flip back and I'll try to take advantage of it. I took teology from Persia but the Zulu won't give me Engineering or even chivalry for it.
The third Persian war was my first major mistake in this game. I think that reading the progress of those better than me I took more chances to be able to get back in the race but failed completly.
The third Persian war was my first major mistake in this game. I think that reading the progress of those better than me I took more chances to be able to get back in the race but failed completly.
Lucky
Game- and Quizmaster
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2001
- Messages
- 2,304
A worthy GOTM to make a return, but time once again, especially this month is a problem. My start was not that good as others have written, huts were empty, had gold and one tech, IIRC. No additional settlers. And so no way to start an early war against Xerxes. But he started one, razing one city and capturing another, I got my Golden Age, walls in all and barracks in most of my cities, as well as a leader to make the FP. The advantage were the 3 luxuries I secured and the only Iron source. This enabled my to start the second war in AD. He couldn't build pikemen or immortals, nor later knights. My addititional luxuries got me back into the science race a little, so no I'm fighting with knights and am only 3 tiles away from Persepolis, with the Pyramids and Leo's in it. Still waiting for reinforcements to my 20+ knight troops for that run. 
The war started well, I quickly destroyed most of his outdated horsemen and archers, something like at a rate 6:1 or even better. But the stupid game relocated an iron source (not mine, phew) into his territory, so he started on pikemen and now even knights.
Biggest problem are those knights and the longbowmen. It still is a hard fight and probably started too late for a really high score, but I don't know how to have built up the fighting force sooner.
I might post some details later and I probably mixed a few details right now. My main problem right now is that I cannot really think of a way to finish this game with a win. Guess I will have to continue the military line.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I know the whole world map already, of course. Somehow need to get the others fighting each other.
The war started well, I quickly destroyed most of his outdated horsemen and archers, something like at a rate 6:1 or even better. But the stupid game relocated an iron source (not mine, phew) into his territory, so he started on pikemen and now even knights.
Biggest problem are those knights and the longbowmen. It still is a hard fight and probably started too late for a really high score, but I don't know how to have built up the fighting force sooner.
I might post some details later and I probably mixed a few details right now. My main problem right now is that I cannot really think of a way to finish this game with a win. Guess I will have to continue the military line.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I know the whole world map already, of course. Somehow need to get the others fighting each other.
In my game, they are all selling the Middle Age tech for around 700 golds each. If you have 700 golds, you could buy Chivalry, Education, Invention, .... without any problem. Since my Republic empire can generate a little bit more than 200 GPT now, that means I will be able to buy new tech in every 4 turns. This is a good example of why this exploit would do more damage than good. I know what they were saying there, but in reality, it actually costs them more. Let's just think about it for moment. Why risk losing a market and a knight in every turn? It takes more than 200 golds with pre-build shields to rush a market and it also cost at least 200 golds to replace the knight. Therefore, it would cost about 400 golds each turn for that exploit to work. On the other hand, the legitimate way would cost less than 200 golds each turn. No offend to anyone, but me thinks they should learn basic Math first.
Moonsinger,
I totally agree with your comment and I might add that I am planning not to research anything at least until Steam Power. Building marketplaces and banks and not bothering with libraries and universities is easier.
But the maneuver you mention should be dissalowed as many others.
Off-topic. I just saw you had an impressive post-count at the moo3 website. Guess you are playing civ3 as a replacement also. For the past 4 months i said this would be the last gotm before moo3 but to get back on topic, this one was worth the wait.
More on you progress please...
I totally agree with your comment and I might add that I am planning not to research anything at least until Steam Power. Building marketplaces and banks and not bothering with libraries and universities is easier.
But the maneuver you mention should be dissalowed as many others.
Off-topic. I just saw you had an impressive post-count at the moo3 website. Guess you are playing civ3 as a replacement also. For the past 4 months i said this would be the last gotm before moo3 but to get back on topic, this one was worth the wait.
More on you progress please...
MOO! MOO! MOO!
Yes, I'm a MOOer too. Back on topic, especially at the Deity level, it's much better to let the AIs do research for us. In this GOTM14, since only China, Japan, and India would come up with new techs, we would have no problem in catching up with them. Anyway, my computer was fried last night; so I won't be able to play any more civ until the end of next week.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
I was the first to enter the industrial age (thanks to the free tech). Since I had a monopoly on Nationalism, I sold it and bankrupted all the other civs. I made 129+gold/turn from Japan and all of his cash stockpile. With all the extra money I had coming in from selling Nationalism, I can set science to 100% and still make a few hundred gold/turn profit. Learning techs every 5-6 turns and beat all the AI to steam power. I'm going to try and hold a tech lead for a little bit, since no civ will offer any money for Steam Power except India (everyone else is bankrupt).
Even with my ruined reputation I had Gandhi Gracious with me for awhile, and now he is polite. I sold him my only source of saltpepper while he is at war with Japan and China. Everyone else is cautious towards me. Even though you can't sign ROP with a ruined rep, you can still get the AI to sign one if you attach a 'free' tech to the deal. So the ROP, combined with giving him saltpepper made him gracious. I'm * tempted* to try and pull off a diplomatic....
Another reason I'm not selling steam power yet, is I want the wonder cascade from Newtons to end, so the AI doesn't have the chance to switch to Universal Suffrage or TOE. The AI is taking over 6 turns to learn techs, so Newtons should be completed before the AI goes Steam Power-->Industrialization by themselves.
Even with my ruined reputation I had Gandhi Gracious with me for awhile, and now he is polite. I sold him my only source of saltpepper while he is at war with Japan and China. Everyone else is cautious towards me. Even though you can't sign ROP with a ruined rep, you can still get the AI to sign one if you attach a 'free' tech to the deal. So the ROP, combined with giving him saltpepper made him gracious. I'm * tempted* to try and pull off a diplomatic....
Another reason I'm not selling steam power yet, is I want the wonder cascade from Newtons to end, so the AI doesn't have the chance to switch to Universal Suffrage or TOE. The AI is taking over 6 turns to learn techs, so Newtons should be completed before the AI goes Steam Power-->Industrialization by themselves.
AgedOne
Emperor
Oh well, a quick defeat. I couldn't really hope for better from my first serious attempt at deity. In fact, GOTM13 was my first victory at Monarch level, even. But you get nowhere without trying. Here's how it went:
I moved to the coast before founding Babylon, which seemed quite a good location.
My first warrior went exploring to the north as soon as he was free to travel. I didn't think of setting the lux rate high to keep the population in order, as described earlier in this thread. (Inexperience).
Met Xerxes in BC 3150 and he wasn't happy. I traded tech and, later, gave presents to keep him somewhere nearer Cautious rather than Furious.
In the early stages I was keeping the tech rate as high as I could to ensure I got Warrior Code. High rates don't really get you much at this level, though.
Everything was growing just too slowly for me, and too quickly in my neighbour's garden. By BC 2470 I felt like I was becoming trapped in a corner. I have only 2 cities, with a settler scurrying into position for the third, while Persia has 5 to my knowledge - the latest of which has just been dropped outside my front door.
Huts didn't get me very happy. I only managed to get into 3 before my sprawling neighbours bagged them all for themselves. These yielded (a)Pottery, (b) Nothing and (c) a map. I didn't feel significantly better off.
Things started to get exciting in about BC 1075. I had 6 cities by this time. Persia a few more than that (Ha!). A few Persian units wander into different parts of my territory. I thought this over for a few moments. If I ignored it I would probably be sneak attacked. If I asked them to leave, they'd declare on me. My real problem was in not being ready for conflict at this moment, I suppose.
So I asked them to leave and they declared on me. I ducked under the table and tried to shield myself from the blast.
Strangely, the attack was not as crushing as I'd feared. I lost one city and then survived several rounds of attacks - my bowmen holding out against horsemen very well. Xerxes agrees to peace and I breath a sigh of relief.
My next quandary. The city I lost had the horses within its borders. Also, during the war I'd hailed a passing Zulu boat and gained Iron Working from them. I could see where the iron was - and it wasn't in my land.
So how to get my hands on the resources?
I planned a culture-squeeze on Ellipi - the horse city - which was quite close to Babylon. Planted 2 small cities either side of it.
This was too much for Xerxes. In BC 610 he sneak attacked one of the new mini-cities. This time the invasion force was much mightier, and the game basically ended there for me. City after city fell, and I expected to be wiped out before 10 BC. Strangely, I wasn't. Xerxes decided to talk when I was down to just 2 cities. He'd make peace if I gave Nineveh, leaving just Babylon.
For the sole purpose of making it to AD alive, I accepted. So in BC 410 I was down to a capital only.
The remaining game was quite pathetic, really. I made a small, gentle build up with 3 new cities in my tiny cramped land area. In AD130 Persia decided that I had grown big enough and declared on me for no reason whatsoever. A tide of Immortals swept over my cities and this time there was no stopping at the gates of Babylon. All over in AD 230.
I have a lot to learn about playing against deity. (Also all the other levels)
I moved to the coast before founding Babylon, which seemed quite a good location.
My first warrior went exploring to the north as soon as he was free to travel. I didn't think of setting the lux rate high to keep the population in order, as described earlier in this thread. (Inexperience).
Met Xerxes in BC 3150 and he wasn't happy. I traded tech and, later, gave presents to keep him somewhere nearer Cautious rather than Furious.
In the early stages I was keeping the tech rate as high as I could to ensure I got Warrior Code. High rates don't really get you much at this level, though.
Everything was growing just too slowly for me, and too quickly in my neighbour's garden. By BC 2470 I felt like I was becoming trapped in a corner. I have only 2 cities, with a settler scurrying into position for the third, while Persia has 5 to my knowledge - the latest of which has just been dropped outside my front door.
Huts didn't get me very happy. I only managed to get into 3 before my sprawling neighbours bagged them all for themselves. These yielded (a)Pottery, (b) Nothing and (c) a map. I didn't feel significantly better off.
Things started to get exciting in about BC 1075. I had 6 cities by this time. Persia a few more than that (Ha!). A few Persian units wander into different parts of my territory. I thought this over for a few moments. If I ignored it I would probably be sneak attacked. If I asked them to leave, they'd declare on me. My real problem was in not being ready for conflict at this moment, I suppose.
So I asked them to leave and they declared on me. I ducked under the table and tried to shield myself from the blast.
Strangely, the attack was not as crushing as I'd feared. I lost one city and then survived several rounds of attacks - my bowmen holding out against horsemen very well. Xerxes agrees to peace and I breath a sigh of relief.
My next quandary. The city I lost had the horses within its borders. Also, during the war I'd hailed a passing Zulu boat and gained Iron Working from them. I could see where the iron was - and it wasn't in my land.
So how to get my hands on the resources?
I planned a culture-squeeze on Ellipi - the horse city - which was quite close to Babylon. Planted 2 small cities either side of it.
This was too much for Xerxes. In BC 610 he sneak attacked one of the new mini-cities. This time the invasion force was much mightier, and the game basically ended there for me. City after city fell, and I expected to be wiped out before 10 BC. Strangely, I wasn't. Xerxes decided to talk when I was down to just 2 cities. He'd make peace if I gave Nineveh, leaving just Babylon.
For the sole purpose of making it to AD alive, I accepted. So in BC 410 I was down to a capital only.
The remaining game was quite pathetic, really. I made a small, gentle build up with 3 new cities in my tiny cramped land area. In AD130 Persia decided that I had grown big enough and declared on me for no reason whatsoever. A tide of Immortals swept over my cities and this time there was no stopping at the gates of Babylon. All over in AD 230.
I have a lot to learn about playing against deity. (Also all the other levels)
DaveMcW
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
- Messages
- 6,489
I signed an ROP with the Zulu to get my cavalry onto the island as fast as possible. Then I bought Magnetism and Theory of Gravity to get Nationalism, signed MPPs with the second continent, and declared war on Zululand. I sold Nationalism a turn later to keep the Zulu from getting it, but they researched it themselves halfway through the invasion.
Ghandi was gracious to me, right up the the point where he landed an archer next to my rifleman in Swazi and did a sneak attack. I'm still trying to figure that one out.
I finished off the Zulu in 650 AD. Now I am shipping my cavalry to the second continent to join my ally China against India and Japan. No one will reach Replaceable Parts unless I decide to end the war. This is my first cav vs. rifleman conquest on diety; I don't know if my economy can build reinforcements fast enough to overcome the AI's production bonus and reach domination before 1000 AD.
Ghandi was gracious to me, right up the the point where he landed an archer next to my rifleman in Swazi and did a sneak attack. I'm still trying to figure that one out.
I finished off the Zulu in 650 AD. Now I am shipping my cavalry to the second continent to join my ally China against India and Japan. No one will reach Replaceable Parts unless I decide to end the war. This is my first cav vs. rifleman conquest on diety; I don't know if my economy can build reinforcements fast enough to overcome the AI's production bonus and reach domination before 1000 AD.
It's almost AD and the Indians visited and I finally got to see the whole map. I am fairly even points and power wise but I am behind in tech. I can never keep up in tech on Deity, the AI's trading handicap to me is something I can't overcome. I am worried I will get behind too far and never be able to catch up. Persia might be getting Chivalry soon and if they do I am in deep trouble.
How do you stay in the tech race?
How do you stay in the tech race?
The building of marketplaces increased my revenues constantly to 100 gpt. The one man research on monarchy ended and i switched to Printing Press. On the other continent, the Japanese took some 4 Indian towns than made peace. The Chinese declared war at the crippled indians and begun taking one city after the other. The indians were being exterminated but they sold techs at the lowest price. I bought Education to see that China and Japan had banking (and everythingelse but I wanted banking). I bought it after 7 turns. My income rose to 200 gpt and then to 280 gpt and i could buy a tech every 4 turns from the indians. AS everyone discovered navigation i started to sell my luxuries to the other continent. The city i took from the Persians flipped back (grr). i had built another one close by which became a flipping candidate and i abandoned the idea of keeping it.
As the one man researched on printing hat 5 more turns i begun to hope. And YES, i was the first to research Printing press. I sold it around and did some other deals to get the needed 3 techs to Industrial age, communism (which i bought for a trading opportunity and steam power. For teh firs time, I'm on tech parity (i'm down chivalry, mil tradition, navigation and economics but that don't count). My armies are building up with a defensive strategy this time. The Persians declared war to the Zulu and I hope to get by the winner's side to get some more teritory. For now there's naval warfare between the said parties in my teritory and soon to be land warfare aswell as the zulu landed some cavalry. It was boring for the last 45 turns but it's getting interesting again. The year is 800+.
Sorry for your computer moonsinger.
As the one man researched on printing hat 5 more turns i begun to hope. And YES, i was the first to research Printing press. I sold it around and did some other deals to get the needed 3 techs to Industrial age, communism (which i bought for a trading opportunity and steam power. For teh firs time, I'm on tech parity (i'm down chivalry, mil tradition, navigation and economics but that don't count). My armies are building up with a defensive strategy this time. The Persians declared war to the Zulu and I hope to get by the winner's side to get some more teritory. For now there's naval warfare between the said parties in my teritory and soon to be land warfare aswell as the zulu landed some cavalry. It was boring for the last 45 turns but it's getting interesting again. The year is 800+.
Sorry for your computer moonsinger.
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