GOTM 21 game freeze still unresolved

[Hurricane]

My GOTM 21 game froze during the early AD's, with the end result of me being unable to complete or submit my game. The whole issue was heavily moderated during July, but now, well into August, I think I am allowed to ask if the problem ever was located. I was a bit surprised (well, more than a bit) that cracker in one thread said the issue only concerned "poor" players:

Originally posted by cracker
We are tracking some sort of game freeze problem that I have identified as real but cannot yet replicate it in normal play. So far the freeze only effects games in Civ3v1.29 that are played down at a very low success level that may be causing the AI hatred and attitude registers to go into overload. In several cases these games that are freezing up are played with perhaps 3 or 4 towns and may be 8 to 10 techs behind the AI civs when typical players in the GOTM games are no where near this status in the games.

I thought I was doing pretty well, had quite a few cities, was well ahead in tech, and had never broken any deals.

I sent 2 PM's to cracker, but never got any other replies than a confirmation that he had received them. So maybe the GOTM community could come up with fresh ideas about what is wrong. My game can be found here:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Hurricane_civ3v1_29,_350_AD.zip

I am hesitating to continue the GOTM as long as this issue is completely unresolved.

 

[cracker]

Hurricane,

A key point that you semi omitted here and that will avoid 99% of any confusion that might result is that you game was being played in the v1.29 version of the GOTM and that we ended up with 4 total examples of the freeze/crash that could not be diagnosed.

The freeze/crash problem clearly occurs in your game and the other examples and occurs in the AI decision movement cycle usually when the game has very severe AI attitude and diplomacy balance issues with the AIs either hating the humna or being supremely powerful.

The problem does not appear to be a random issue and will not effect any other games except where the conditions related to power and diplomatic attitude may be replicated in v1.29.

On the technical support side, Firaxis has abandoned software support for the Civ3 product except for players that purchase the "optional" expansion packs. This pretty much means that no solution will be forthcoming to this rare software bug and that we just have to try and steer around it.

We ended up with over 220 total games successfully submitted for Gotm21. Of these games, 55 were successfully played and submitted in the Civ3v1.29 version. The problem clearly appears to be related to a set of game play choices that create an internal conflict with a bug in the AI decision programming. Very few games will ever be effected by the bug. The bug seems to have been fixed in PTW by any one of 100's of documented or undocumented software changes.

I personally invested over 30 manhours trying to chase the bug for you and the other three players. Chasing this unresolved bug came at the expense of virtually ignoring and neglecting the needs of other players suchs as our French and Spanish friends. The diagnostic process included using special software tools to eliminate every possible inference of a relationship to any added or enhanced GOTM feature. The typical freezes where occuring move cycles for standard civs like Russia even when civs like the Minoans, Celts, and Spain were totally removed from the game by artificial intervention of SODs of Modern Armor.

Ultimately the diagnosis was that this freeze problem was not specifically related to the game setup or to you specific installation. Your game freezes fro me too and I tested it on two different computer installations.

I would play on with the next game and just write of your failed Gotm21 as a random learning event. Your game was the most advanced game in terms of play progress but common element in the failed freeze games continues to be lower than expected success in diplomacy and AI relationships. The other three failed games had tech deficits of 6 to 12 technologies and as few as three cities with contact with only 3 or 4 AI rivals at time periods when most players had contact with 12 to 15 rivals, tech parity, possession of virtually the entire world map.

We are also seeing absolutely no evidence of encounters with this bug in other games including Gotm22.

Since you are a PC user, you do have the option of demanding that Firaxis provide you with a Free copy of PTW to fix the bug that you have found even though this bug will not likely be encountered in any otehr games that are well played.

 

[Naboo]

I also had the freeze in gotm21. I had more than a few cities but was pretty far down in tech, trying for a "capture the Great Library" gambit. Worse than not being able to finish was not knowing if my plan would have worked. I was only a turn or two from launching the assault.

If I recall, it was also an issue of having a large roster of AIs. Cracker mentioned something about AI hatred registers overflowing, or something to that effect What did YOU do to #### them off?

Maybe not an issue this month, with a smaller roster of Civs. I did not get a freeze this month. I don't think I was playing as "poorly" , but I had some pretty hateful AIs at times...

I'd say go ahead and play gotm22. I haven't seen any reports of this freeze this month.

I imagine the team is taking care to avoid scenarios that tread near the trouble spot (i.e. large # of AI) until the problem is understood.

 

[Naboo]

oops, I see Cracker already responded. Many thanks for all the time spent on this! Although it's a pretty stiff penalty for poor play, it definitely provides motivation to improve! Perhaps PTW will eventually make it to Mac, and I can slack off

Cracker, do you have a feel for which gameplay issues pose the greater danger?

- falling behind in tech
- falling behind in # of contacts
- general "hatred", i.e. everyone is "furious"
- # of Civs

While some of these are things that are usually striven for (keeping up in tech & contacts), others may be deliberate ("always war", etc).

Again, thanks for the research. Glad it's not a mod issue.

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks for the answer, Cracker. Since so few other players have posted in this thread, I can agree that this random bug is more or less of a no-issue. This does, however, very much look like vanilla Civ3 is becoming obsolete, and I am not surprised to see cracker mentioning that the solution to my problem would to be to upgrade to PTW.