GOTM 35: First Spoiler (End of Ancient Age)

[grs]

Wait one!

That sounds suspiciously like the sort of exploit that caused Cracker to create a special set of resource files for GOTM. Modifying game files in such a way as to improve the visibility of resources under the fog is considered cheating, as it provides information that is not available in the out-of-the-box game for other players. If that is what you've done then I recommend you do not use this approach.

I feel by heart that this is true, but there is a very thin line between using graphic programs to blow up the images, create a map with the resources you predict then compare these images and what he is doing. If there is even a pixel of the resource visible, it is very likely possible to determine this resource by the "create a look-alike map and blow up the images trick". So he actually just has an easier method of doing the same thing.

Not that I like it, but maybe think about if there is really a difference!?

Also, as we can see from the spoiler threads, people are using a gazillion different graphic mods, many of them geared towards increasing visibility of resources, smiley faces (I mean the mod that makes it easier to distinguish citizen moods), borders, etc. Why exactly increasing visibility of stuff halfways under the fog would be illegal?

A very good point!

 

[AlanH]

I feel by heart that this is true, but there is a very thin line between using graphic programs to blow up the images, create a map with the resources you predict then compare these images and what he is doing. If there is even a pixel of the resource visible, it is very likely possible to determine this resource by the "create a look-alike map and blow up the images trick". So he actually just has an easier method of doing the same thing.

Not that I like it, but maybe think about if there is really a difference!?

Yes, there is a difference. The image you blow up and examine contains information that's available to everyone. Moving the fog, or moving the resources to make them more visible is equivalent to editing the game software. Do you propose to edit the images so that you can see the full map at 4000 BC? I hope not. So why do you think editing it to show one more tile ... or half a tile ... or one more pixel ... is any more ethical?

We had custom resources for a long time to ensure that everyone had the same level of visibility. That was unpopular with a lot of players who didn't like resource file swapping, so we reverted to the standard files in response, and trusted our player community to play to spirit of the "no game editing" rules. Are you implying that the players cannot be relied upon to play nice, and we'll have to return to using custom resource files?

That's what I did. If it's a banned exploit, it should be mentioned in the GOTM code of conduct (or whatever it is called). Is it?

Editing the game is not allowed. If it's not stated in the rules it should be, but it should be obvious. Using utilities to see information that is not normally available is also banned.

I would have to say though that it would be silly to make this a banned exploit. As we can see from the pre-game discussion, players have very different abilities to look under the fog. Having access to an LCD display improves your visibility a lot, IMHO. A modified resource file can even the odds.

See my previous comments in reply to grs.

Also, as we can see from the spoiler threads, people are using a gazillion different graphic mods, many of them geared towards increasing visibility of resources, smiley faces (I mean the mod that makes it easier to distinguish citizen moods), borders, etc. Why exactly increasing visibility of stuff halfways under the fog would be illegal?

Smiley faces and borders are nothing to do with resource visibility. I was not aware that the mods are designed deliberately to expose resources under the fog. If they are then we have a problem, and Cracker's previous response to it was to create non-standard resource files. Do you want to drive us back down that path?

 

[samildanach]

Ask not for whom the sirens call ... they call for thee

I missed this little bon mot by the X-man. Or perhaps bon motte is more appropriate as it calls to mind the "presents" the neighbours dog leaves on my lawn.

 

[delmar]

Editing the game is not allowed.

If editing the resources.pcx file counts as editing the game, then a lot of people are violating this rule.

If it's not stated in the rules it should be, but it should be obvious. Using utilities to see information that is not normally available is also banned.

I am not doing anything that reveals information that is not visible. I just turned the "barely visible" into "clearly visible".

Smiley faces and borders are nothing to do with resource visibility. I was not aware that the mods are designed deliberately to expose resources under the fog.

I was referring to the mods that put a big black-on-white H, I, S, etc. next to Horses, Iron, Saltpeter, etc. This is an age-old mod that I am sure you wouldn't want to ban. I think it's even on the PTW CD.

If they are then we have a problem, and Cracker's previous response to it was to create non-standard resource files. Do you want to drive us back down that path?

To be clear, the mod I am using doesn't expose anything, it emphesizes the resouces so that they are clear when they are halfways under the fog. If you don't like this, then I think you will have to ban LCD displays and better than 20/20 eyesight as well because some folks could see the tiles around the starting area from ainwood's low-resolution screenshot! I want to drive us to a resolution where you declare that stuff halfways under the fog should be clearly visible to everyone, not only to a select few.

The connection between borders, smiley faces, and emphesized resources is that all of these make those things clear that have been there before.

Your analogy to the utilities (if I understand correctly what you imply) is not a valid one because those show things that are simply not there otherwise.

 

[delmar]

Continued timeline from post #58

I made a detailed plan for city placement:

The reddish squares mark city places in the 3 and 5 distance rings around the FP. The blueish and greenish squares mark two possible locations for the new capital (after palace jump) and the corresponding city locations in the rings. I chose these two locaitons for their distance from the rings around the FP, the amount of land around them, and the fact that they are next to river (a must for the palace jump, as I will have to beef up the city above pop 6 with workers). No other location meets these requirements.

The blue version has a 3 and a 5 distance ring, the green version has one 4.5 distance ring. The circles around the blue and green squares mark "reasonable" city placements. I used those circles to decide which capital location would be better. The blue version has clearly more city locations (given the two rings), but the number of "reasonable" city locations is about the same and the green version has the advantage of covering more area with less cities, so I decided to go with that. The arrows show two places where city locations on the ring are unacceptable due to being 1 tile away from the sea and being in the middle of the dessert respectively. The green city location in the middle of the dessert is "reasonable" because (due to the less crowded green solution) there are still enough tiles for that city to be useful.

The yellow squares mark special locations that need to be occupied even though they are outside of the high production rings. The horses, the incense, and the nearest points to the Arab island are such. The latter is a special location because I decided that building a city there with a library is the most economical way of contacting the Arabs -- it requires the research of Literature instead of Map Making and the building of a Library instead of a galley, a pure win on both counts. The same city will eventually build a galley (as a matter of fact probably many galleys) but it will help me accrue territory points while doing so.

Speaking of territory, the white squares mark city locations that are advantagous from the territory size point of view. These are low-priority compared to the other city locations, as a matter of fact I hope that the AI will settle on many of them and then I can capture the cities.

You will notice that the iron sources are not marked with yellow. That's because a.) the borders of the city next to the incense and of the dark red one next to the Northern wheat will engulf the Northern iron source, b.) I don't plan to use iron in the near future, and c.) if all else fails I can always grab the Southern source.

The yellow and the green lines show roads that will be necessary for connectivity (as opposed to commerce/income). I will try to build around future city sites to avoid wasting worker turns.

Finally, the numbers on the white background show the next six cities I will build (in the order shown by the numbers). The logic behind choosing the first city locaiton next to the wheat is that I need more food to succesfully expand on this vast continent. The next three cities will be placed so as to grab the horses, the next one will help me contact the arabs, and the last one will be the capital. Currently I have 1 settler, and can build another every 4 turns. The road from the current capital to the new capital takes 5 turns, so the 6th city will be built in about 25 turns. If everything goes well, by then (or shortly after) the FP will be ready and I can jump the palace.

1700BC I spot the first barbarian horseman. I will have to escort every worker near the borders from now on.

1400BC Currency is researched. I trade it to the Carthaginians for Writing and 109 gold, and start researching Literature. It will take 9 turns.

The settler reaches the horses and guess what, it looks like there is a landbridge there. Must explore further!!!

My military is very weak. I lost several regular warriors to barbarians and I barely fended off a barbarian attack against my cities. I have barracks in one city but it can't produce anything except warriors because it has to keep up with the barbarian attacks and the settler factory. Compared to that, I have a warrior having a vacation near the Arab border, hoping for a contact in vain. This cannot continue. I order the warrior back to the capital.

1200BC Literature is researched. Carthage has only Ceremonial Burrial to offer so I pass. I am going to research Philosophy next, following the guidance of the Holy Excel Sheet Oracle.

The cultural influence of the phantom Arab city grows just as I move the aforementioned settler in position to build the city, so they can definitely see me now. I hope they will contact me.

1175BC I have contact with the Arabs. They have Ceremonial Burrial, Horseback Riding, Map Making, contact with the Greeks, and 91 gold. First I get 45 gold and contact with the Greeks for Mathematics. The Greeks have the same techs but they don't want to give me anything reasonable for Mathematics. I don't want to give away Literature yet, as that's my only tech not known to any of my 3 contacts. Instead, I give the Arabs Currency for the Horseback Riding, Mapmaking, World Map, and 46 gold. The Greeks get Mathematics for Ceremonial Burial, 16 gold, and World Map. It turns out the Greeks and Arabs also have Mysticism, which I get from the Greeks for Currency. By the end of the turn I have every tech, 228 gold, and the world map, and I didn't give away my world map and Literature.

Even though now I have contact with the Arabs, I still found the city in the nearest spot. Contrary to the plans, it will build a galley first, not a library, for obvious reasons.

1100BC Forbidden Palace is ready. My military is still very thin: I have 10 warriors and 3 archers to cover 2 settlers, 7 workers, and 10 cities. Plus one of them is exploring the land bridge in the South. So all in all I have 12 military units covering 19 assets. This must be fixed ASAP.

1025BC The New Capital city is founded, slightly behind schedule mainly because the settler was delayed due to lack of road and lack of military escort. The Forbidden City is now the biggest at pop 6, and it has 8 other cities within 8 tiles. That's 8 and 2/3 "palace jump points". In order to make a jump to the correct city, it must have at least 9 points. That could be achieved by 5 pop and 12 units/cities, or 6 pop and 9 units/cities. I can probably do the latter easier as I am creating workers faster than units. As a matter of fact, nobody is building units at the moment because I am waiting for the horses to come online.

1000BC Summary:
Cities: 12
Citizens: 30
Settler: 1
Workers: 7
Military: 10 warriors, 3 archers
Buildings: 2 granaries, 2 barracks, 1 library, 1 FP

Picture:

950BC The Greeks beat me to Code of Laws by one turn. I would have rather had them researching Construction but I guess there is nothing I can do about this now. I give them Philosophy for Code of Laws and 17 gold and get cranking at Republic. 12 turns. I need to hook up the 3rd luxury before I can get there. Fortunately the road is almost there, just a settler is missing.

900BC I meet the Zulu. They don't have any techs. I give them Mathematics for World Map and 77 gold. They have wines and spices on an otherwise uninteresting piece of land. Would be useful to trade with them for the luxuries but I would need to build at least 20 tile worth of road to be able to do so. Or a harbor, if the Zulu are clever enough to do the same. That's a big if.

690BC The palace jump is being delayed due to the fact that the old capital's population is decreasing slowly.

Republic is researched. I don't revolt because I need production to decrease the old capital's population. It will take another 7 turns to reach 1, then I will jump and revolt in the same turn.

630BC Carthage finished the Pyramids.

590BC Polytheism is researched. 1 more turn to finish the last worker in the old capital and then I can proceed with the palace jump. Immediately after that I want to change government and I hope the AI will research Construction while I am in anarrchy so I decide to put science to 0% for now.

550BC Palace jump, trade Polytheism for Construction with Greeks, bonus tech is Engineering for me, Monotheism for the Greeks.

Moving into Middle Ages triggers the usual barbarian uprising. A spearman I accidentally built happens to stand right next to a barbarian camp; I count 18 horsemen there. I can also see another camp under the fog on the NW shoreline, there are probably another 18 barbarian horsemen there. I have a total of 8 horsemen, 10 warriors, 4 archers, and 1 spearman, but many of them far away in the East (making sure the palace jumped to the right place. The good news is that now I can cross rivers without penalty, so the horses will probably make it to the right place in time.

I have 580 gold and the only thing I could spend it on is embassies, so the usual tactic of letting all the barbarians sack a pop 1 city is not going to work. It seems I will have to fight this off and avoid being sacked somehow.

This would be a lousy moment to go to anarchy so I stay in despotism.

Summary:

Cities: 16
Citizens: 52
Settler: 0
Workers: 9
Military: 10 warriors, 4 archers, 1 spearman, 8 horsemen
Buildings: 1 granary, 4 barracks, 5 library, 1 marketplace, 1 FP

 

[grs]

Yes, there is a difference. The image you blow up and examine contains information that's available to everyone. Moving the fog, or moving the resources to make them more visible is equivalent to editing the game software. Do you propose to edit the images so that you can see the full map at 4000 BC? I hope not. So why do you think editing it to show one more tile ... or half a tile ... or one more pixel ... is any more ethical?

It would be nice if you return to a reasonable way to discuss this. Why are you exagerating what I said without any reason? I did not talk about revealing the map or asking people to cheat. Delmar raised a very valid point and explained it in detail below. As I agree with what he is implying - while I have a different opinion on modding the game - I don't need to explain it any more.

We had custom resources for a long time to ensure that everyone had the same level of visibility. That was unpopular with a lot of players who didn't like resource file swapping, so we reverted to the standard files in response, and trusted our player community to play to spirit of the "no game editing" rules. Are you implying that the players cannot be relied upon to play nice, and we'll have to return to using custom resource files?

It was very unpopular in vanilla civ3 because you had to manually swap files and not everyone playing civ likes to do that - no matter how strange that may sound to anyone more professional with computers. Additionally it was also very unpopular for new players because you had a GOTM admin these times, who flamed everyone to death who did not want to read pages of instructions before playing a computer game, but this is a different matter.

You said yourself that GOTM involves trusting the players and I think we have a community here that can be trusted. Please do not kill the messenger "Delmar" who raised a valid point that may have layed quite for some time.

I myself have changed borders and smallheads (with smilies) files, so I altered the game files to make things that everyone can see better visible to me. Do I have to be excluded from the game? Does everyone have to be excluded who uses the "smily and power blips" version of resources? It was even in your older GOTM mods with altered resources.

 

[ainwood]

Firstly, Alan is not trying to antagonize anyone here - he is simply trying to highlight that Delmar was, completely unbeknown to him, doing something that we consider to be outside the spirit of the competition. He is certainly not trying to shoot the messenger here!

We do not have an exhasutive set of rules that cover every possible exploit, because we don't need to. This is not the Olympics - its a friendly competition. When new exploits arise, we evaluate them and decide whether or not to allow them.

In terms of the actual resource.pcx issues, this is an example of what we don't really want to see:

From a software perspective, it would have been much easier if the fog of war actually overlapped onto the visible tiles, rather than receding to the hidden ones. It would be even better if the fog of war was not just a mask drawn over the real terrain...

The powerblip with smilies resources released with GOTM 21 (IIRC) were designed to give the players all the normal benefits of custom resources without taking the spoiler info to the extreme illustrated in the above pictures.

Part of the reason that we post a starting screenshot is to give the fog gazers the opportunity to have a bit of a gaze and to share their findings. I wll endeavor to provide a higher-quality screenshot. One other thing that we could perhaps do would be to maintain a list of approved modpacks.

All in all, there is little that we can do to stop people using modpacks that give the extreme sorts of advantages seen in the piccie I posted above. Even custom resource files are only a stop-gap, as its a 5-minute job to mod those as well (In short, it is a measure that doesn't really do anything to stop this issue if someone wants to exploit it, but it does annoy a lot of other people).

We can't crack-down on people using this kind of exploit, because its not really possible. However we can highlight that we think it is against the spirit of the game.

 

[delmar]

Ainwood, what's the logic behind encouraging fog gazing but declaring that knowing what's peaking out from under the fog is against the spirit of the game?

I hate to bring this up for the 100th time, but couldn't one argue that abandoning your capital for a palace jump (not referring to the corruption bug here!) and placing your cities 1 tile apart are also against the spirit of the game? I've seen several threads about this and I always agreed with the people who started them first, but the counter argument, ie. that it is clearly allowed by the rules programmed into the game therefore there is no point in forbidding it, is something I can't argue with.

Now, visibility of the tile at the border of the fog is also clearly programmed into the game, otherwise it would be pitch black. For the record, now that I know to use the LCD display and know what to look for, I can clearly see ivory on plains, wheat on plains, wines on any tile, cows on any tile, dyes on forrest, and several other resources without the mod if they are in the right direction. Lower right edge is the right direction for wheat, btw.

Personally, I feel that leaving people with worse eyesight and/or display (or simply not enough time to gaze at the display until their eyes pop out) at a disadvantage is against the spirit of fair competition. Overall, my opinion is that permitting modifications to the resources.pcx file and publicizing that this can be done is the most elegant solution here.

If, however you specifically want to disallow it, then please list this as a banned exploit in the Code of Conduct.

 

[horragoth]

P.S. Horragoth - what graphics mod-pack are you using?

I am using Womok's pack as a base. It was never extended to C3C by its author and it seemed there were some bugs (or at least I have hard time to distinguish some forest/jungle squares). Thus I have modified some files, used original volcanoes. I cannot also exclude that there is some graphics left from Sn00py's pack which I used earlier, but I am not sure because I did a lot of changes.

 

[Dynamic]

Good point, breadleyfeanor!
I miss the combination 4-turn settler+warrior.

I started 3 warriors,settler,granary then 4t settler factory 5->7.
Research Wheel at 100% for trading, then Pottery, Writing, Literature then go to Republic.

No early wars, Republic in 900BC->800BC.
MA in 590BC.

1000BC stats:
15 cities + 3 settlers
33 citizens
1 granary, 4 library.

Republic in 4 turn, currency & construction left.
Horse, Iron & 3 lux fixed.

 

[valamas]

PREDITOR

QSC Status

At 1000BC I had:
10 towns with 22 citizens
1 settler
4 native workers, 1 foreign workers
16 warriors
1 temple, 2 granaries
8g in treasury (I'm rich!)

 

[DJMGator13]

Pregame thoughts: More wheat is available, I'm hoping to be able to do 2 settler factories (possibly a third). Will go with a tight build pattern RCP 3/6/9. Greece is the only other civ with BW and only other scientific civ in the game.

I move the settler East and found Sogut in 3950BC. I set science to Iron Working at 20%. Upon reflection I should have studied Pottery first, but with it known by 4 civs at the start I thought I’d be able to trade for it early. Initial build order was warrior, warrior, settler. I found my second city (second settler factory) in 3000BC. I spy the “red” border in 2550BC and like most everyone else did not gain contact until I sailed to them.

I met the Zulu’s in 2510BC and finally trade for Pottery after having already built 2 settlers. Contact with the Cart’s followed on the next turn. Switch both my builds to granaries and found my 3rd city in 2430BC. Once the granaries complete, I do a lot of mm and manage to turn my first 2 cities into 5-6 turn factories. The settler factories are not online until 2070BC.

The Zulu’s beat me to IW by 2 turns and the barbs were persistent which forced me to build more regular warriors than I would have liked. I do a good job picking the techs to study after IW. I select Math figuring one of the AI’s would already be working on Writing, which is what happened. Do the same thing when I select CoL versus going for MapM.

Rest of QSC time is pretty straightforward. Settler factories keep adding cities and I continue to fight off the barbs.

QSC SUMMARY

17 cities (versus ZUL 8 cities, CART 7 cities)
Pop is 34
149 tiles
Score 243

Builds: 2 granaries, 2 barracks

Military: 7 workers, 13 warriors & 1 sword

Ranks #1 in everything except Approval Rating & Military Service

14 techs - missing MYST, POLY, CONST & CURR - have 10 turns left on Republic

Have only met 2 neighbors, still no contact from the red civ.

Here’s a look at my 1000BC map (notice the barb activity)

I made a conscience effort to try to keep the tech pace high sometimes giving away techs for nearly nothing. My biggest problem was not meeting the 2nd continent quick enough; contact was established in 670BC. The mainland was already 2 higher cost techs ahead of the other civs. I drew a 6 turn anarchy period and became a republic in 630BC. I also managed to lose 3 workers to barbs and wasted 2 turns researching another tech before switching to study republic.

I end the AA in 490BC with
22 cities
Pop = 67
Tiles = 196
score 404

Military: 1 settler, 14 workers, 14 warriors, 3 swords, 1 cat, & 2 galleys

If you notice I am already researching Chivalry, this is because I gifted the Greeks into the MA with me and we traded Monotheism & Feudalism.

 

[Renata]

PTW, Open class

Wheeeeeeeee! I'm back!

*sound of crickets chirping*

Ahem. Anyway, my first GOTM in over a year, thanks to me finally having enough money to spare to buy a new computer to replace the one that semi-crashed on me last summer.

A medium-length summary of the ancient age -- because I'm incapable of being brief:

Goal: Dual settler pump in Sogut (settled 1 tile east of starting point, at which point I changed plans from straight-to-granary to settler-first-then-granary) and Iznik (settled due south of the plains wheat). Modified farmer's gambit -- enough military to ward off barb attacks and keep towns happy, but no obsession with keeping every city occupied at all times. Meet as many civs as possible. Research fast early, until situation becomes more clear. Plan to go to war as early as is practical.

What actually happened:

The dual settler pump worked pretty well. I had some hiccups with Iznik, mostly to do with having to build more military there than I had desired (stupid barbs!), and I had some wasted shields. Still, though, I had a pair of granaries up and running fairly early on, and was able to get a settler every four turns out of Sogut and one every six turns out of Iznik, both running at size four and five. Carthage, who I met pretty early on, had four towns to my two at one point (they either started with two settlers or popped a hut to get Utica. I never saw a goody hut. Plenty of barbs, though), but I was up to seven before they settled their fifth. At 1000 BC I had 13 cities and three settlers (including two contributed by cities other than Iznik and Sogut), and I had 22 towns by the time I hit the middle ages. Sogut actually got taken off settler duty for six turns somewhere in there to build me a few workers -- at the QSC I only had four! Oops. It's all better now, though.

Exploration was a problem for me, mostly due to the barbs. I lost a warrior to the west just a couple of turns from where I later found out there was a visible city border -- once I finally de-fogged those tiles I parked a warrior there ASAP and got contact pre-galley, but it was after 1000 BC. Likewise, exploration to the south was held up due to barbarian depredations, and neither I nor Carthage met the Zulu until after 1000 BC. I think I lost four warriors total to barbs, and I was ransacked a bunch of times. I managed to keep my workers and settlers out of trouble, though, and the ransackings were pretty trivial considering I never had much cash in the bank -- maybe 25g and 2 or 3 shields lost in total.

One benefit of the rapid settling was that I was able to secure the three close-in lux quite early, and had two of them linked up soon enough that I only had to use a lux tax for a handful of turns the whole ancient age, despite sparing only one MP each for Sogut and Iznik most of the time. That allowed me to research fairly rapidly, despite only having one trading partner. Neither of us ever bothered to research CB until after the QSC, though -- at one point I wanted to expand a particular town's borders and was surprised to realize I couldn't! At the time I stopped playing, at 90 BC -- 20 turns into the middle ages for me -- Carthage still hadn't expanded borders in most of its towns. Poor, poor Carthage. I have such plans for you. You needn't pay any attention to those newly-upgraded medieval infantry mustering in Uskudar, really.

Ah, yes, which brings me to .. resources! I had three sources of iron locked up without any trouble at all, but it took me ages to find that one source of horses down on the isthmus that I could still get to. I was sort of planning on swords/MI (depending on research pace) all along for the Carthage war anyway -- horses against fortified Numids? Yeah, right -- so it wasn't a big deal. And I got feudalism for my free middle ages tech. Yay! Whether I take out my next target civ with knights or Sipahi will depend on how rapidly I can assimilate Carthage and on where exactly said civ is on the tech tree when I do. Considering said civ *still* hasn't bothered to set sail to go meet anybody but their nearest neighbors, they may wind up a bit backward by that time. I can't hold off contact too much longer, though -- too many boats of other civs showing up nearby, and I don't have enough of a navy to manage a blockade.

Speaking of navies ... I can't think of the last time I started so far from the edge of such a relatively small continent. I've been dead center in Pangaeas before, but not in a situation like this. By the time I got my first boat built, I had all the contacts anyway by other means. Very unusual!

Some summary info:

QSC (estimated until I get home and can look it up):
13 cities
25 pop? Seems low considering I had two towns at 4+ at all times, but that's what I remember. Could be wrong.
3 settlers.
4 workers. (Eeep! My biggest early deficiency after exploration. I'm in decent shape now, though. Thank heavens for industrious workers.)
About 15 warriors and three? archers.
A pair of granaries and I think one barracks, possibly 2.
Techs: all first level except CB. Second level: IW, HBR, writing, math. Third level: mapmaking, currency (in 1000 BC). Might be missing one, will have to check.
Luxes online: dyes, ivory.
Luxes claimed but not yet hooked up: 2 incense.
Resources claimed but not yet hooked up: 3 iron.
Contacts: only Carthage!

Between 1000 and about 500 BC I self-researched C of L and Philo, then went to Republic and drew a 6-turn anarchy. Somewhere in there I met all of the remaining civs: Zulus by exploration, the red-border civ by hanging out in that peninsula until they said hello, and the rest by contact trading. About 500 BC, four turns after becoming a republic, I reached the middle ages and got Feudalism. By that time I had 23 towns and had given up the settler business in favor of marketplaces, barracks and warriors. Since then it's just been saving cash and preparing for war. Should be fun!

I'll come back and post some pictures later, probably.

Renata -- glad to be back!

 

[AlanH]

PTW, Open class

Wheeeeeeeee! I'm back!

*sound of crickets chirping*

Chirrup! Chirrup! Welcome back, Renata!

 

[a space oddity]

Open, 1.29, scientific all the way

After the early explorarion revealed such near perfect 4-8 rings, I decided to try a Space victory. The Sipahi would make our GA come at a perfect time and would get us a good sized chunk of land to score well.

My 1000BC stats:
12 cities
29 citizens
1 Granary, 2 Barracks
6 workers
1 settler
32 Warrriors, most of them vets and 769g in the bank.

I entered the MA in 370BC, rather late, but I had captured Cathage, which had dutifully built the Pyramids. Feudalism was my free tech, so I could switch my pre-build city to SunTzu's.

BTW, Renata, good to see again!

 

[jeffelammar]

PTW - Open - Scientific from the start.

Heya, Just another blast from the past. This is my first GOTM submission in about a year as well. I just powered through this one though

I decided to play for a 20K victory, with Sogut as my 20K city, and no palace move so I could put the FP there.

Initial Moves:
1. Worker moves east, sees wheat, but I don't move closer to it. The hills and visible BGs will help me get my 20K started.
2. build 1 warrior, then start barracks as prebuild for Granary. I think given my plan I would have been better off just building a settler, and not building a granary in the capitol since it would mostly be building wonders anyway.
3. After Granary first settler went to the river by the wheat (3se, 1 e of Sogut)

Exploration/Expansion:
1. Because of the first setup, expansion was very slow at first, not really getting rolling till late in the AA.
2. First warrior went due east, eventually skirting the north of carthage and then turning south. He beat the carthaginians onto the land bridge, meeting the Zulu about half way. Since I had the bridge stopped up, I followed the Zulu home and fortified at the entrance to prevent them from meeting.

Tech/Trading:
Given the easy level and the lack of contacts, I deliberately slowed down the race. In retrospect, a bit too much. Once into the MA, the slow pace was right, but here in the AA I had two big mistakes due to the slow race.
1. I missed the oracle by two turns and had to ditch into a marketplace.
2. I missed the Hanging Gardens by one turn and had to settle for the Great Wall.
In both cases I could and should have researched another option.

War
The Zulu declared on me after I had blockaded the land bridge.
The demanded contact with Carthage and I refused.
I just retreated back up it till I could get peace. Still keeping the contacts from occuring.

For dealing with Carthage I decided on a classic Warrior->Swordsman rush. Because I was keeping the tech pace slow, I had plent of $$$, so I built up about 25 Warriors and as the Middle ages started (Around 10 AD), I owned most of Carthage.

In order to keep the tech race slow, I left Carthage with 3 cities and gave them peace after I finally got a leader and an "army" victory.

Little did I know that I would keep building other higher priority wonders, and not build the epic till late. The Heroic Epic did serve as a nice prebuild in the absence of the classic palace prebuild.

One other major mistakes.
1. Golden Age: for whatever reason I forgot that the GL would trigger my golden age. Thus I wasted most of my GA in Despotism and even a bit in anarchy.


AA Culture Buildings
4000BC - Palace (duh)
2270BC - Temple
1275BC - Pyramids
450BC - Great Library
410BC - Library
230BC - Great Wall
30BC - Colleseum

 

[Renata]

<--- *waves at Space and Alan*

@Jeff: Weird playing again after so long, isn't it? Some things just come right back, but then other things .... My own bonehead move was completely forgetting to build a Forbidden Palace until you-don't-wanna-know when. I didn't get that burned on it, and may even have broke even in the long run -- will explain tonight in next spoiler.

Renata

 

[jeffelammar]

@Jeff: Weird playing again after so long, isn't it? Some things just come right back, but then other things .... My own bonehead move was completely forgetting to build a Forbidden Palace until you-don't-wanna-know when. I didn't get that burned on it, and may even have broke even in the long run -- will explain tonight in next spoiler.

There was definately some serious rust going on.

I think the AA wonder mistakes I made were due to not having played much. I certainly miscalculated my management of the AA tech race.

As a note, I didn't finish my FP until late in the game (1300 or so IIRC). I know this is outside this spoiler, but I don't think any bad info is in this statement.
In my case, it was a concious decision. I wanted it down in the old zulu land, and due to my 20K goal I didn't want to waste a leader to build it.

 

[akots]

...1000 bc Status :
21 cities.
51 citizens
...

Wow! This is very impressive. I have built only 3 granaries and got 19 towns by 1000BC with about 40+ citizens. Sure these 2 extra granaries you built are paying off.

The game was actually a very nice micromanagement excercise, switching all these wheats between 3 cities. This tedious task fortunately became more routine after I switched to Republic (revolted 1025BC and got 3-turn Anarchy). I then focused on infrastructure (Libraries and Markets) and am not planning on early wars before Sipahi. And Carthage built the Pyramids.

IMHO, while playing Predator going for Ancient Age military expansion is really risky while battling NM and impi with horsemen.

Scientific Predator

 

[Megalou]

IMHO it's worth building swordsmen in AA. Even if the horsemen are more useful for upgrade, you will lose so many in an AA war that the ones you built first won't be around to upgrade anyway. More precisely I like the mix of swordsmen and horsemen: horsmen to soften up the defence, then swordsmen to finish it. Horsemen should always attack first.

In addition, horsemen travel to the front faster, which gives all the more reason to build swordsmen (usually upgraded warriors) first.