Gotm 35

[A+ombomb]

In the games they are comparing there he has ridiculous trade potential squares which do not exist nearly as readily in GOTM 35. The best I could find would be the egypt area where you have the river and 2 silk. If there is a better one I haven't found it yet but I will keep looking hehe.

 

[grigor]

Zenon is an extremely strong player, one of the best to ever play this great game. As to the believability of his results there can be no doubt. A typical Class B chessplayer might have difficulty believing what a grandmaster can do over the board, but to knowledgable observers it is just about skill level.

 

[la fayette]

Zenon,


You beat me by 64 turns. IMO this is much more than the price of helper programs: mainly the price of high skill

 

[zenon]

Thanks for the kind comments. I enjoyed this game. It gave a different early landing challenge. There was no obvious SSC site in this game and I finally chose London for trade reasons. It gave the transcontinental delivery bonus for most other cities. To overcome the weak SSC site I had to expand more than usual. I built Pyramids as second WoW (I never built MPE in this game) and could grow 23 cities to size 5 to 11 until 200 AD. This gave the necessary tech pace. I also added more small colonies in China and North America to get more trade.

I used huts in this game but no rehoming. The hut results are noted in the log, I don´t think they were better than average.

To expand so far and to get all these huts I allied with French and Spanish and could just walk through their territory.

After launching my space ship in 640 AD I continued as a growing Democracy, expanding and founding cities, building wonders and also capturing AI cities with a few howitzers and armors. I wanted to see what I could do in the remaining 15 turns. It was interesting, but I don´t think I will repeat this part. Each turn took more than an hour and coordinating the trade of some 50 cities becomes laborious.

However, this game was fun. Thank you for this interesting start, DoM.

The log and the final save for those interested:



GOTM 35

BC
Starting Techs: Bronce Working, Horse Riding, Ceremonial Burial
Techs researched: Alphabet, Code of Laws, currently researching: Monarchy
Cities: London, Glasgow, Southhampton
1 hut: 50g
Barbarians: none

2100 Monarchy discovered, French (pathetic), trade for Currency, maps, peace, alliance, Russians near Orleans, Calais (4th) (renamed Rotterdam)
2050 Monarchy established, Orleans destroyed by Russians, hut: chariot,
2000 hut nomads
1950 Spanish (weak) trade for mystizism, peace, give Code of Laws, maps. give Horse Riding, alliance, 100g,
1900 hut: horse
1850 Russians (weak) give Mystizism as tribute, peace, hut Archer
1650 French trade for Pottery, 50g,
1600 hut: masonry
1550 hut Mathematics, Berlin (5th), Odessa (6th), New Paris (7th),
1500 Babylonians contact Berlin, peace, (have Seafaring),
1450 hut Barbarians, hut: Trade,
1350 hut 25g
1300 hut archer, Stockholm (8th), hut chariot,
1250 hut horse, Russians 100g tribute, French give trade 50g,
1200 Polytheism, hut Astronomy, hut archer, hut barbarians, Babylonians give trade, monarchy, maps, Susa at 100/52 spotted, Spanish: give mathematics 75g
1150 Riga (9th), Belfast (10th), hut 50g,
1100 Persians, peace, give techs, 150g tribute, hut 100g,
1050 hut elephant
1000 Spanish develop warrior code, trade for Warrior Code, hut Construction, hut elephant, hut horse,
975 hut 50g, hut The Wheel, hut Seoul (11th), New Kiev (12th)
925 Samarra (13th), hut 50g,
900 hut Barbarians, hut Nomads, hut 50g, hut 50g, Porto (14th),
875 hut Barbarian Horde,
850 Indians, peace give tech, maps, 250g tribute, hut 100g, hut Nomads (on Greenland), shipped home,
825 dye London Babylon 120g, hut Legion, New Moscow (15th)
800 Pyramids, (instead of MPE, key civ is discovered, with all these huts tech trade has lower priority, with a weak SSC expansion to about 20 + cities will be neccessary)
775 Writing, trade for Iron Working, hut Nomads (on Greenland again), copper London Moscow (d) 64g,
750 Seoul captured by Barbarians, hut Engineering, hut Legion, hut 50g, hut Literacy,
725 Tbilisi (16th), Persians give Literacy, 50g, Spanish give Iron Working 75g,
700 Hanging Gardens, hut Bridge Building, Russians 75g tribute,
650 Omsk (17th)
600 Babul (18th)
575 Jekaterinburg (19th), start celebration under Monarchy to improve trade and science
525 Milano (20th), copper Edinborough Ur (d) 168g,
500 Philosophy, Republic
475 gold London Ur 84g, hut Legion, hut 50g, hut Barbarian Horde, hut Medicine,
425 hut horse, silk Edinborough Madrid (d) 216g, Indians give tech 100g,
400 Spanish give the wheel 100g,
375 dye Belfast Ur (d) 152g, Babylonians give Republic 125g,
350 Monotheism, Persians give Republic 50g, French give Republic 100g, Russians 75g, Babylonians trade for Seafaring
325 Michelangelos Chapel, Republic established, 17 cities celebrating,
300 hut nomads (Canada)
275 Tutgai (21st)
250 beads to Moscow (d) 156g, copper Porto Southhampton (d) 112g,
225 hut Sanitation, Montreal (22nd)
200 wine Southhampton Ur (d) 220g
150 SSC size 8, aqueduct
125 Shakes
100 hut crusader, silk Tblisi London (d) 288g
75 London Sewer System, hut 50g
50 Colossus, SSC size 12, hut New Orleans (23rd), coal Porto London (d) 294g
25 Banking, French break alliance, Spanish give Engineering 100g,

AD
1 silk Samarra London (d) 378g
20 Theology, gems Constantinopel Edinborough (d) 258g, hut crusader,
40 London Harbour, hides Berlin Belfast (d) 128g, silver New Moscow London (d) 300g
60 Copernicus, University discovered, silk Babul London (d) 540g
80 Theory of Gravity, hut Economics, hut Legion, coal Constantinopel London (d) 404g, hides Rotterdam London 100g,
100 Cemistry, beads Edinborough Toledo (d) 256g, hut Nomads, coal Stockkolm London (d) 324g, gold Belfast london 104g, dye Odessa London 140g, wine New Paris London 100g, dye New Kiev London 140g
120 Invention, London University, copper London St. Petersburg (d) 280g, dye Riga London 60g, wine Samarra London 79g
140 Democracy (oedo turn), JSB, London size 21, 22 of 23 cities celebrating, hut 50g,
160 silk Stockholm London (d) 210g
180 Gun Powder, hut 50g, coal Jekaterinburg London (d) 230g
200 INC, Navigation, London size 24, celebration ends, city sizes 11 (2), 8 (12), 7 (4), 6 (2), 5 (1), 1 (1), science at 1 tech/turn,
220 Physics,
240 Explosives, silk Constantinopel London (d) 297g
260 Steam Engine coal Samarra London (d) 220g, New York (24th), Memphis (25th), hut Barbarian Horde,
280 Railroad, gold Riga London 47g, wine Odessa London 54g, coal Edinborough London (d) 75g,
300 Leonardos, Darwins, Industrialization, Magnetism, silk Tutgai London (d) 258g, spices Southhampton London 22g
320 Corporation, hut 50g,
340 Chivalry, Indians give all techs, silk Jekaterinburg London (d) 288g, gold Edinborough London 62g, London has now railed trade routes to Edinborough (14) and Southhampton (12), science 1454, (SSC 738), needed 1380
360 Metallurgy, Refinery, hut 50g, Spanish give Navigation 125g,
380 Electricity, gold London Berlin (d) 204g, silver Odessa London (d) 205g, coal Milano London (d) 215g, gold Omsk London 126g, coal Tbilisi London (d) 255g, gold Milano London 55g, transatlantic shipline established,
400 Combustion, Barbarian Seoul bribed (26th) for 104g, St. Louis (27th),
420 Steel, hut 50g, copper New Kiev Belfast (d) 106g, coal Memphis SSC (d) 345g

440 Automobile, Electronics, SSC and Odessa superhighways, copper Constantinopel SSC (d) 336g, gold to Odessa (d) 588g, cloth Tutgai SSC 225g, beads Porto SSC 159g, salt Edinborough SSC 87g

460 Leadership, Conscription, New York, Montreal, Tbilisi superhighways, Kansas (28th), wine Montreal St. Petersburg (d) 540g, dye Montreal Ur (d) 492g, beads Tblisi SSC 236g, dye New York SSC 304g

480 Tactics, Atomic Theory, St. Louis, New Paris, Constantinopel, Edinborough superhighways, Charleston (29th), coal St. Louis SSC (d) 774g, spices New Paris Montreal (d) 516g, cloth Odessa Montreal (d) 515g, SSC wonder bread, cloth beads unblocked,

500 Machine Tools, Mass Production, Omsk, Samarra, Seoul, Stockholm superhighways, Beijing (30th), cloth London Omsk (d) 820g, silk Seoul SSC (d)1180g,

520 Miniaturization, Computers, Memphis, New Orleans, Jekaterinburg, Babul superhighways, Albuquerque (31st), cloth Samarra Montreal (d) 734g, spices Babul Montreal (d) 748g, silk st. Louis SSC (d) 928g, wine Babul New York (d) 424g, gems Omsk Memphis (d) 604g

540 Flight, Radio, Kansas, Tutgai, Milano, Porto superhighways, strange, this turn was interrupted, only a part of the units moved (no settler) and it was still 520. Hit Enter: 540, the sience box is filled again, Nanjing (32nd), oil to Seoul (d) 769g, SSC wonder bread, oil Memphis Edinborough (d) 439g, cloth Odessa Montreal (d) 383g, wool new Paris New York (d) 173g

560 Nuclear Fission, Advanced Flight, SETI Program, Beijing superhighways, Shanghai (33rd), wine Montreal Pasargade (d) 440g, oil to Seoul (d) 769g, copper Seoul SSC (d) 440g, oil New York Edinborough (d) 405g

580 Rocketry, Nuclear Power, Belfast superhighways, coal Kansas SSC (d) 414g, silver Beijing SSC (d) 480g, coal Charleston SSC (d) 376g, copper Tbilisi SSC (d) 251g, oil Tutgai SSC (d) 620g,

600 Laser, Space Flight, Albuquerque superhighways, oil to Omsk (d) 626g, oil Charleston SSC (d) 526g, oil Babul SSC (d) 523g, silk Kansas Edinborough (d) 307g, gold Stockholm Albuquerque (d) 419g

620 Plastics, Superconductor, Apollo Program, dye Edinborough Delhi (d) 424, wine New York Pasargade (d) 210g, wine Porto New Orleans (d) 283g, gems St. Louis Babylon (d) 312g, cloth St. Louis SSC 191g, oil Samarra SSC (d) 452g, oil Tblissi SSC (d) 439g, oil Constantinopel SSC (d) 424g, oil Porto SSC (d) 424g, wine Constantinopel Albuquerque (d) 310g, wine Stockholm Albuquerque (d) 390g, oil Albuquerque SSC (d) 694g, oil to Jekaterinburg (d) 439g, beads to St. Petersburg (d) 248g, beads Southhampton SSC 34g (SSC unblocked), 24 space ship parts completed,

640 Refrigeration, Fusion Power, Launch 15 – 3 – 3 – 1 – 1 – 1, surprise attack by Russians, Shanghai, Nanjing superhighways, oil Shanghai SSC (d) 694g, beads to Kansas (d) 338g, oil New Orleans SSC (d) 666g (oil supply unblocked)

641 Mobile Warfare, Babylonians steal Plastics, we declare war, New Moscow superhighways, oil to Montreal (d) 654g, oil Jekaterinburg SSC (d) 439g (oil supply unblocked)

642 Robotics, Petersburg captured 241g, oil to Seoul (d) 831g, gems Milano SSC 108g (oil supply unblocked)

643 Moscow captured 177g, Kiev captured 133g, Russians destroyed, oil to Seoul (d) 859g, dye New Paris SSC 63g, wine new Moscow New York (d) 350g,

644 Recycling, Southhampton superhighways, Fukuoka (37th), Ur captured 207g, Babylon captured 169g, wine Memphis Delhi (d) 405g,

645 Seoul, SSC airports, oil to Seoul (d) 1377g, Nineveh captured 189g, Babylonians destroyed, Barb leader near Kansas 100g, Wuhan (41st), Akila (42nd), cloth Samarra St. Louis (d) 510g, beads New York London 192g (oil supply unblocked in both cities),

646 Communism, Montreal airport, Berlin superhighways, Spanish steal Plastics, alliance broken, Spanish declare war, Cordoba captured 66g, Toledo captured 37g, oil to Seoul (d) 1428g, oil Montreal SSC (d) 1125,

647 Espionage, surprise attack by French, Jekaterinburg airport, Paris captured 55g, French destroyed, Sevilla captured 97g, Madrid captured 45g, Spanish destroyed, oil to Seoul (d) 1470, dye Kansas Bombay (d) 368g, coal Nanjing Belfast (d) 463g, silk Shanghai Edinborough (d) 627g, cloth New Orleans SSC 232g (oil unblocked, a perfect delivery circle), gold new Moscow Charleston (d) 488g,

648 Future Tech 1, Memphis airport, Fukuoka, Kiev superhighways, wine new Orleans pasargade (d) 285g, oil to Seoul (d) 1512g, oil Memphis SSC (d) 1223g, silk Belfast Omsk (d) 568g

649 Genetic Engineering, Akila Wuhan superhighways, silver Akila SSC (d) 576g, dye peking SSC (d) 236g, spices Jekaterinburg Montreal (d) 1092g, dye Montreal SSC 332, oil Kiev SSC (d) 383g, coal Ur New York (d) 348g, oil to Seoul (d) 1512g, wine Constantinopel SSC 138g

650 Combined Weapons, Cure for Cancer, New York airport, Nineveh superhighways, Persians declare war, Minsk destroyed, Susa, Antioch captured, oil Fukuoka SSC (d) 797g, oil New York SSC (d) 1069g, wine Cordoba SSC 69g, gold St. Louis SSC 185g, silk Fukuoka Edinborough (d) 624g, oil to Seoul (d) 1611g, wine Southhampton SSC 44g,

651 FT 2, Toledo, Paris, Babylon superhighways, Adam Smith, Persepolis captured, Tarsus Parsargade bribed, Arbela destroyed, Persians destroyed, copper milano St. Louis (d) 200g, silver Wuhan SSC (d) 527g, dye Wuhan SSC 211g, gold New Orleans SSC 211g, oil to Seoul (d) 1643g, wine Odessa SSC 118g, wine Kansas SSC 205g (oil is blocked)

652 FT 3, Eiffel Tower, silk Akila Edinborough (d) 657g, dye Nanjing SSC 234g, cloth Albuquerque SSC 191g, copper Edinborough Beijing (d) 470g, SSC wonder bread, unblocked, wine Memphis SSC 378g, oil unblocked, spices Paris Montreal (d) 467g, oil Samarra Montreal (d) 1161g

653 Amphibious Warfare, United Nations, Dodge City, wool Jekaterinburg New Orleans (d) 400g, oil Toledo Memphis (d) 616g, gems Beijing SSC 262g, gems St. Louis SSC 182g, oil to Seoul (d) 1736g, oil Nanjing SSC (d) 844g, spices Cordoba Montreal (d) 592g, oil New Moscow New York (d) 756g, all other freights delivered, spend the gold on WoWs,

654 FT 4, Lighthouse, King Richards, Magellans, SoL, Great Library, MPE, Sun Tzu, Great Wall, Oracle, found some cities,

655 AC Landing

 

[ElephantU]

Your log is missing Mapmaking. Must have been the off-tech after CoL during the late 2000s BC.

Very impressive game, Zenon. I liked the Wonder grab at the end too...

 

[Old n Slow]

Nine wonders in one turn!

I wonder if that is close to some kind of recored!?!

 

[A+ombomb]

Nice game. It seems the vast majority of techs came from huts, and since I don't use any aid to find huts for myself I suppose I am at a supreme disadvantage. I did manage to find a great way to achieve a similarly fast landing, though. By placing a city at the tip of spain, not too far to trieme to, you can have some nice trade with babylon which has many rivers. With one city in the walking land path to give the road/railroad bonus. Since babylon is just a stone's throw away by trieme, it makes for very good trading. I still only hit landing at 920, but perhaps if I use a hut finder next try I will be able to achieve a quicker landing. Feb. w/out huts will be interesting.

By the way, is rehoming caravans legal?

I noticed single year turns after spaceship launch, does this always work like that? Thats quite a large advantage for early landing score influx.

Again, very impressive. I suppose I never realized the power of mass hutting since I usually play smaller maps which tend to have much fewer huts.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by A+ombomb
Nice game. It seems the vast majority of techs came from huts, and since I don't use any aid to find huts for myself I suppose I am at a supreme disadvantage.

You can study the patterns of huts by making a large continent of Plains in Map Editor and looking at their pattern relative to the Buffalo and Wheat. Or download HutFinder from Apolyton.Net and give it a try. BTW, the Early Landing games over there prohibit using huts for benefit, which makes the record landings even more significant. They wanted to even out some of the random benefit of huts, but found that getting rid of the sudden changes to tech plans was an unexpected side benefit.

By the way, is rehoming caravans legal?

Yes, it is legal in the GOTM here at CFC, but not over at Apolyton.Net.

I noticed single year turns after spaceship launch, does this always work like that? Thats quite a large advantage for early landing score influx.

Guess you have not launched a spaceship yet. It is more of a disadvantage for anyone who launches a slow spaceship, as it gives the AI more turns to try to "take you out". Most people bypass the ship with only one engine and one fuel component, which takes over 30 years, for the one with three of each, which takes 15.

Again, very impressive. I suppose I never realized the power of mass hutting since I usually play smaller maps which tend to have much fewer huts.

Map size is one component of this game; I would say continent size and known configuration were bigger elements. We all know what EurAfAsia looks like, but since it was all joined together dropping just a few explorers could cover a lot of distance. And having Horse as a free starting tech meant those early explorers could move twice as fast.

 

[zenon]

Thanks, Elephant. Of cause you are right, Map Making was the offside tech on the way to Monarchy.

One more remark about techs from huts. I looked into my log and found 10 techs from huts (out of 51 huts before Invention), which happens to be the statistical probability. This sounds good, but just at the first glance. Techs from huts happen to include unwanted techs. This rises your tech costs and can spoil your own research: best example are offside techs before Monarchy. On the other hand, if no huts are opened there are several compensations:
- more techs can be traded with the AI
- this usually allows to skip unneeded techs. Possible candidates are Masonry, Warrior Code, Feudalism, The Wheel or Pottery (unless HG are needed), sometimes Iron Working or Polytheism
- skipping techs reduces research costs by 26 each on a medium map once 20 techs are reached throughout the game
- skipping techs helps getting a research bonus when tech gifting the key civ and avoiding a research penalty
- skipped techs can be traded in the late game to avoid researching unwanted techs when the wrong techs are in the research path
In conclusion techs from huts are not much of an advantage when playing an Early Landing Game. The value of the huts lies in tribes, settlers and gold to speed up the game. Units are nice but of little value. It´s best to keep a few none units and convert the rest into shields when the government is switched to Republic.

 

[A+ombomb]

There is no denying that hut teching can potentially be detrimental, as it slows down techs you really want short term, but teching to landing is different. While there is a best way to tech to space flight, you need pretty much every hut tech, unless you have a way of trading past certain base level techs but that is often as unreliable as the huts. I wasn't claiming that you had an unusual amount of techs from huts, but tech is tech, and it shaves down turns especially when you claimed a very early astronomy and sanitation out of it. Don't get me wrong, I still think you did an amazing job landing so early, but ultimately I just really dislike the luck factor of huts which was, large or small, still a factor in the game, and that is why I love gotm 37 .

 

[Achinz]

OK zenon has posted his final .sav but I'm interested in his 1AD.sav to complement his log and also the savs of the other participants.

I wonder if the Duke can oblige with a zip sometime?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

They have already been sent to TF.

 

[Achinz]

Thanks, look forward to it.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2gotmarchive.shtml