GOTM 38 Spoiler

[A+ombomb]

I am not convinced that bribing will help you achieve a max score more so than just taking over a city. It would be largely dependent on how many turns after taking over the city you plan on expending before you end the game. If you only have 1 city left to take before the end, and you plan on bribing it, the few measly population points you gain from bribery will probably make such a small impact on your gotm score that I really doubt it would even be worth the effort, unless you were ending the game *really* early, like 1AD ish.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by A+ombomb
I am not convinced that bribing will help you achieve a max score more so than just taking over a city. It would be largely dependent on how many turns after taking over the city you plan on expending before you end the game. If you only have 1 city left to take before the end, and you plan on bribing it, the few measly population points you gain from bribery will probably make such a small impact on your gotm score that I really doubt it would even be worth the effort...

To me it's more about preserving the city at all. If you go entirely conquest, too many cities are razed. There's no way to capture a defended size 2 city, and most size 3's have 2 defenders so they're gone too. I also think that with bribing, you tend to get cities that are more ready to contribute to the war effort. The difference between a size 3 and a size 1 city is huge when playing like this.

...unless you were ending the game *really* early, like 1AD ish.

Who says I wasn't?

 

[rainman]

Originally posted by A+ombomb
I was generating 888 bulbs at 140 ad . .

What do you mean "bulbs"? You mean tech beakers? How did you manage 888 by 140 ad???

 

[ElephantU]

Welcome to CFC and GOTM, rainman. Two ways to generate a lot of tech beakers: lots of cities, or a Super Science City (SSC). The technique for making lots of cities is called Infinite City Sprawl (ICS), and is summarized here:

http://www.cms.livjm.ac.uk/wittgenstein/davev's_ics_strategy.htm

A+ombomb was referring to both the SSC and the ease with which cities could be allowed to grow without happiness worries due to the Prince difficulty level. Combine that with Mikes Chapel and a quick growth to size 8 is possible, even from an ICS start. There was a lot of potential in this game.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by A+ombomb
I am not convinced that bribing will help you achieve a max score more so than just taking over a city. It would be largely dependent on how many turns after taking over the city you plan on expending before you end the game. If you only have 1 city left to take before the end, and you plan on bribing it, the few measly population points you gain from bribery will probably make such a small impact on your gotm score that I really doubt it would even be worth the effort, unless you were ending the game *really* early, like 1AD ish.

A good part of the final score is based on population, so anything I could do to boost that would help. In working through the Greek, Viking, Jap and Spanish cities I tried to bribe as much as possible, with the intent to pump up the captured cities with some WLTCD growth before I took out the Mongols and the Celts. As soon as a captured city got to size 2 I switched it to settlers and spread out across the empty countryside. I was actually planning to take the Celts out next, but the Mongols conveniently declared war while I was working on the Spanish. So the WLTCD was postponed till after the Mongols were gone, and most cities went from size 2-3 to 7-8 in 8 turns. Bribing a few Celt cities didn't add much to my score, but I wasn't going to get any points for gold so I figured "why not?". The final city was taken by force anyway, simply because there was no Dip nearby.

 

[Old n Slow]

Welcome as well.

I just played a couple of turns (after a two week hiatus) and there's no way I'll win a speed game any time soon.

So we'll just have to focus on plodding along -- something I seem to do OK at.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I never really considered celebrating, although it might have helped inflate the score. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure more than 2/3 third of my cities were below size 3 at the end, so I don't know if it would have done enough to really help, given the speed-driven nature of the GOTM scores. I would have had to start it earlier, with a concious effort to get newer cities up to size-3 rather than spitting out settlers as soon as they hit size 2, and the necessary luxuries would have meant less gold to play with.

 

[ElephantU]

When I was getting close to finishing I directed all my Settlers to join small cities or found new ones, then WLTCD them up to size 8 before switching back to Monarchy for the coup de grace. The plan was that with HG, MC, and JSB I could celebrate anything up to size 8, but after that I would need AQ and MP. I went from a population of 5M just before WLTCD to 15M in 8 turns! It was a rush to see the population announcement skip every other million!

 

[A+ombomb]

Originally posted by rainman


What do you mean "bulbs"? You mean tech beakers? How did you manage 888 by 140 ad???

Well, like elephant was saying, since its on prince you can really go boomtown big time in no time flat, if you really put alot of effort into getting shakespear for a large trade center. I placed my trade center directly on top of the swamp just south of the starting spot (for some reason that resource type escapes me, the one that has the trade ). The reason why I placed it directly on top of it was so that I could immediately benefit from its maximum trade potential, which is quite high (I think 6 or 7) and it allowed me to make some insane routes to the greeks very early on. The 888 bulbs was from a size 23 city (I think) from that square, with 3 +11 routes to sparta - I don't really know what my total bulbage was at that point but I don't think it was that much more than 888 since my other cities were only size 3-5 with no improvements.

 

[A+ombomb]

Originally posted by ElephantU


A good part of the final score is based on population, so anything I could do to boost that would help.

Yep, absolutely. In fact, population is pretty much the whole deal. That's why I don't feel bribery is worth it, except at the minimum - you can often spend the same money towards buying settlers and food caravans (I actually have never made a food caravan once, since I just celebrate to regain population from settlers, but theoretically its an alternative method) and expand much faster and at your own terms (placement)! Perhaps I have overlooked something here, but I have put alot of thought into the pros and cons of diplomats and this seems to be my conclusion every time I think about the subject.

 

[A+ombomb]

Originally posted by TimTheEnchanter
I never really considered celebrating, although it might have helped inflate the score.

I am fairly sure the key to maximizing gotm score always revolves around celebration. Abuse it to its fullest! I might take the time to break down exactly how much real score you will need to be gaining per turn , approximately, at 1AD, 1000AD, and maybe some other pivotal dates - it would seem fairly worthwhile to everyone. I think that if you are gaining more than 25 points per turn at 1AD (on prince) that its safe to say you are improving your gotm score, but like I said I haven't actually looked for sure and it is different for each difficultly level. That boils down to only about 15 cities gaining a population a turn (assuming you can make 2/3s of them happy citizens).

 

[Old n Slow]

Yup growth is a big part of the score. (Speed is also, as pointed out time and again by Smash.)

 

[ElephantU]

I'm going to have to restudy the Early Conquest strategies. Looking back, I think I could have done this one by AD1.

 

[grigor]

I agree with Elephant - for this map a fascinating and difficult challenge is to conquer the world by 1AD.

I have replayed this start 3 times after submitting my first try. I can't seem to get earlier than 200ad trying the Smash plan (direct Chivalry rush). I built Lighthouse and Sun Tzu, but perhaps neither is necessary. Maybe pyramids is better on Prince.

I am trying a kind of homeland development strategy now, but I fear that it will prove even slower. In comparison to most early game strategies developed for deity level, this game starts with only one settler, which delays the early game by about 13 turns.

Perhaps the fastest will prove to be the plain vanilla early elephant rush (monarchy, maps, poly).

I look forward to hearing more about this 1AD challenge!

 

[A+ombomb]

I went for pyramids instead of mike's as second wonder after hanging gardens on this one.

 

[A+ombomb]

I managed a 150 b.c. finish in a second game for fast conquest (not submitting, of course). I can post it at some point if people are interested. My strategy was a fast colosus in a heavy trade city, just as any other game - I used the large 200 gold trade routes to fuel both a quick tech to chivalry and navigation and to build up the money for my secondary and tertiary wonders, the lighthouse and sun tzu's. The extra money from colosus allowed me to buy knights after 1 turn starting production (I would go to 30 resources if the city had 5 + shields production, sometimes shifting resources to exactly 5 or 10 production if possible, otherwise buying to full 40). By buying knights up like this with my huge economic base I quickly had an enormous army, and I just kept flooding them out the gates. It being prince level, the computers rarely had more than an archer or two in any city, so veteran knghts easily cruised through. As a fourth wonder, I upped magellan, which proved invaluable for traversing to the celts before the 1AD barrier.

 

[rainman]

I know about building a SSC, but how do you get a size 23 city by 140 AD? I know about celebrations, but I can't seem to get to Republic and Sanitation in nearly enough time. How many other cities did you have? I must be missing some crucial strategy here.

 

[ElephantU]

In this game the years go by 10s after AD1, so you only need to get Sanitation by AD50 to get your SSC up to 20+ by 140AD. Analyze the techs you need and try not to get off-path techs, which cause following techs to cost more. A dozen cities should be enough to do it, with most of them contributing a Settler to work the land around the SSC and caravans to build Wonders in it. After Republic and Philosophy, go to Medicine for Shakespeare's Theater, then pursue Engineering for Sanitation. If you did Monarchy first instead of Early Republic, it should take 18 techs to San (with 2 freebies); keeping under 20 is the key, as the costs go way up on the 20th. Getting Philosophy first is also important, so you get another free tech as well.

 

[A+ombomb]

Actually I don't think I took much of a direct path to sanitation at all - I was just gaining insane amounts of techs very quickly due to trading with the very nearby greeks who happened to have a very accessible coastal city. They weren't even peaceful with me, I just smuggled the goods in . I *think* I had all of the techs possible before the navigation/invention jump that dumps down trade routes, at somewhere around 1ad, basically by abusing the living hell out of caravans. I was probably gaining a tech most every turn from 500bc on, with rare lapses where I couldn't get a caravan down in time (my first lone trieme got smacked around by a greek trieme so it only had 2 moves, so that slowed my routes down a bit till I got a second). I started my republic somewhere just past 700 b.c., can't remember exactly what date. Having 2 advanced tribes out of the 5 huts on the island was definitely another contributing factor. You will be able to see all this shortly when the gotm saves are all in, and you can check out my 1AD save.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

It's been a while, and the month is drawing to a close. Time for part 3...

1000 - Greek horse withdraws
- - - Pasargadae builds Lighthouse
975 - Elephant lands, kills greek horse, Vet status
950 - Ergili founded
925 - Greek Phalanx approaches Ergili
- - - Antioch Settler
- - - Hut elephant (supported)
- - - Dariush Kabir founded
900 - Greeks approaching Ergili in force
- - - Tyre hides van
- - - Trireme kills greek horseman stack (2 units)
- - - Hut Advanced tribe - Ghulaman founded
- - - Hut Nomad
875 - Mysticism -> Philosophy
- - - Greek Phalanx killed at Ergili
- - - Zohak founded
850 - Pop > 400k
- - - Greek warrior killed at Ergili
- - - Istakhr founded
825 - Greek Chariot killed outside Ergili
- - - Jinjan founded
800 - Gordium diplomat
- - - Greek Legion killed outside Ergili
- - - Hut Barbs - Kill one of 6 horsemen
- - - Borazjan founded
775 - Elephant killed by hut barbs
- - - Arbela Hides van
- - - Susa Silk van
- - - Persepolis hides van
- - - Herat founded
750 - Philosophy -> (Golden Age) -> Monotheism -> Warrior code
- - - Tyre Hides Van
- - - Pasargadae Copper van
- - - Pop > 500k
- - - Dakyanus founded
725 - Sidon Beads van
- - - Bactra Beads van
700 - Dariush Kabir Settler
- - - Kill archer in Sparta. Capture Sparta 56g plundered, take Warrior code (over Iron working)
- - - Hut Nomad
675 - Reasearch -> Feudalism
- - - Ghulaman Settlers
- - - Adjust workers for more science for a couple turns
650 - Pop > 600k
625 - greek phalanx talks - Cease fire? No. War continues
- - - Feudalism -> Masonry
- - - Pasargadae Diplomat
- - - Pop > 700k
- - - Phalanx killed at sparta
600 - Celts start Colossus
- - - Susa Hides van
- - - Pasargadae builds Sun Tzu's War Academy
- - - Athens located right about where I thought it was
- - - Susa Silk to Athens (d-96g)
- - - Pasargadae copper to Athens (d-72g)
- - - Bampur founded
575 - Spanish start colossus
- - - Tyre hides van
- - - Masonry -> Mathematics
- - - Archer killed at athens (Vet)
- - - warrior killed at athens (vet - Gotta love sun tzu)
- - - Athens captured 35g Iron working, city razed
- - - Greeks not eliminated? Ah, boat now "near thermopylae"
550 - Jinjan settlers
- - - Zohak settlers
- - - Diplomat finds Greek city - talk - Cease fire? No. War…
- - - Tureng Tepe founded
525 - Cordoba is less than 15 distance from (13 ,15), but more than 13 distance from (17,11), more than 16 distance from (14,8)
- - - Incite revolt in Thermopylae for 124g, 119 g plundered
- - - Greek civilization destroyed.

- - - Now we're cooking with gas! Another 500 years have passed, and things are quite different than when we last checked in. The two Early Conquest wonders have been built (Lighthouse, Sun Tzu's War Academy). The Greeks have just been persuaded to vacate the planet. As far as our foreign minister knows, we are alone again, but our Military command tells us we are homing in on the location of Cordoba (presumably Spanish) and we have exploring units heading to the East and West in search of new targets. Since we have all the techs that we need, the tax rate has been turned around to 70% taxes and 30% science to rush more goodies and bribe cities.

- - - Counting the captured Greek cities, we have doubled the number of cities in the last 500 years, essentially filling our continent and most of the island to the North. We are working on occupying the Greek island, and expanding outward. The original core cities are mostly done building settlers...that duty now falls to the newer, outer colonies.