GOTM 41: First Spoiler

ControlFreak · Mar 31, 2005

AlanH said:
Suppose I have an unused roaded floodplain (3fpt+2gpt = 5) and my city is at pop 5, 15 food in the bin, producing 5fpt, and about to grow. Are you saying that, with the governor set to emphasise shields, my extra citizen will *not* work a forest (1fpt+2spt = 3) to give me 2 shields in the interturn?

You know, AlanH, I was somewhat happy in my ignorant bliss. No longer. :sad:

I did a editted map with Irrigated, Roaded FPs, and Unimproved Deserts and Forest. What I found DID surprize me.

Growing to size 2, even with production emphasis on, the governor still picked the FP. No surprize there, because it has more icons.

Growing to size 3 using 2 FP, the governor picks the forest. :eek:

Despite the forests being worth 3 and the FP worth 5. Emphasizing food does make the Govenor pick FP(OK that's expected). Emphasizing Commerce makes the Governor pick...The Forest :crazyeye:

Growing to size 3 using FP and desert, Emphasizing Commerce makes the Governor pick FP.

Growing to size 4 using three FP, picks the Forest with the same rules as growing to size 3.

Interestingly, Growing to size 4 using 2FP and the Forest with Emphasizing Production picks the Desert (worth 1) :crazyeye:

Last, Growing to size 5 using 2FP, Forest and Desert, govenor picks FP.

So I modify my previous statement.

When picking a new tile on a growth turn: EDIT: THIS RATIONAL DOES NOT WORK EITHER, MORE RESEARCH TO BE CONDUCTED

If no emphasis, pick the highest shield tile that either keep you at least 3fpt, or will give you the most food possible if 3fpt is not possible.
If food emphasis, pick the highest food tile (my test, the Governor never stopped picking FP)
If production emphasis, pick the highest shield tile that either keep you at least 2fpt, or will give you the highest food possible if 2fpt is not possible.
If commerce emphasis, pick the highest shield tile that keeps you at least 3fpt and at least 2spt.

In short, with no emphasis the governor will always try to get at least 3fpt and at least 2spt. If Production is emphasized, keep at least 2fpt. When those are satisfied, it picks the highest tile by emphasized gain (Food, Production or Commerce) or Total Worth if no emphasis specified.

I attached the test file at 4000BC. Have fun.

AlanH · Apr 1, 2005

If Production is emphasized, keep at least 2fpt. When those are satisfied, it picks the highest tile by emphasized gain (Food, Production or Commerce).

This was my understanding, and I think it's what I said some posts ago. But then it doesn't explain Offa's result. With 3fpt and a choice between forest and FP on growth, the production emphasis should choose the forest as it still gives 2fpt.

CdB · Apr 2, 2005

Ancient Age
[civ3]

v1.29f Open
I decided to look at good math advices on the best start and settled SE search Pottery at max and did the following Irrigate 3xFPs , Chop+Irrigate 2 Furs, Irrigate Plain. I have also roaded every thing. My build list was Warrior-Worker-Warrior-Granary-Warrior-Settler. My settler factory is working fine at a settler every 4 turns. First settler is produced in 2430 BC.
2430 BC : First settler is produced. I have just met Japan and finished IW. IBT: I have arrange the following trades Rome: Alphabet & 10 GP vs Masonry & Pottery / Japan: The Wheel & WC & CB & 4 GP vs Masonry & Alphabet. I am now going towards Republic at max speed. I will settle towards Rome to limit their area and secure the closest Iron by going E with my first settlers. I cannot spot any horse in the area

1750 BC : Japan just found mysticism, so I trade Mysticism & 6 GP vs Pottery & Writing. At the end of this turn, Rome extorts Contact with Japan

. I have 5 towns 4 Wa 3 Wo 1 Settler.
1325 BC : 9 towns 8 Wo 7 Wa 1 Se. I have one barrack on my 2nd town that will be pumping Warriors and one granary my only infrastructure. I will only be building barracks in anticipation for libraries / galleys in the event I can gain Litterature / Map Making from contacts. I am at the moment searching Republic as fast as possible and roading a 2nd lux to help maintaining the luxury bar at minimum and research at maximum. I wish I had done this earlier. I may have cut some more turns from Republic search in 18 turns.
1300 BC : I trade Rome : WM & MM vs CB & HB & Philosophy & WM / Japan : WM vs WM so that I have a full view of the starting continent. Immediately changes where I can some builds to galleys.
1000 BC: Republic is next turn. I have 12 towns - 10 Wo 14 Wa 1 Ar 1 Galley. I will then search towards Maths and next age. I get 3 turns of Anarchy to revolt towards Republic.

900 BC : My first galley survives. This is another lucky break with the fact I did not have any disease during all this period. I continue to have 4 turns settler factory working so that I continue to build towns (RCP 4 / RCP 7 / RCP 10). I have just roaded my Iron source so that I can produce Immortals. I will build a strong force to kill Rome (before too many Legions appear and Japan before any Samurai). I am not able to build any knights and do not want to face samurais, by no means.
775 BC : Keltoi : TM & 66 GP & Contact with Iroquois for WM. I exchange WM to all TM and finally to England WM. With all the cash, I can upgrade 4 Wa to Immortals. I have full view on old & new continent and will keep contact separated. With WM, I can now spot some land not settled with an Horse resource available. Unfortunately, I do not want to try too much my luck by crossing attempting a suicide cross with a galley+settler. I will wait a bit a try to first position 2 galleys in both side of the path. I will return the first one to starting continent and then will try to cross the next turn.
- If the first galley survives, settler will change galley to cross to the new continent.
- If the first galley sinks, I hope RNG will not make the second galley also sinking thus having the settler crossing.
570 BC : Rome is in Republic and I am strong against them. It is time to attack.
Spain has just found Code Of Law but has not currency. Spain : Litt & WM & 1 GP vs Currency. I can switch some builds to Libraries so that I gain some Culture.

Roman War (550 BC 110 BC)
550 BC: I have repositioned my army so that I can cover wandering pair of settler / warrior. I have now 16 towns 2 settlers 11 Wo 10 Wa (that I am keeping for MP / defence as I can upgrade them if needed to Immortals) 1 Arc 3 Galley 19 Immortals. I gain 8 slaves, starting my GA.
530 BC : Cumae & Veii are captured by my 2 piles of 6 Immortals.
490 BC : I have the Galley settler pair ready. My long waiting galley crosses the ocean back to home soil.
470 BC : IBT: Eager galley was so pleased to join home soil that it did not pay attention to treacherous ocean. It sunk. Nevertheless, second galley with the settler tries the crossing and survives
410 BC : Rome with Pyramids is captured

. It was really nice of Rome to build such a valuable wonder rather than piles of legions and barracks ! Up to now, I only faced Reg Spears. I am moving a settler to grab gems. I was forced to research Polytheism because nobody had it !
I will change area in the next turn. I have now 20 towns 2 settlers 11 Wo 10 Wa 1 Ar 2 Galley 18 Immortals & 10 slaves.

To be followed ...

eldar · Apr 2, 2005

SirPleb said:
I have a thought about the disease and iron depletion luck elements. I was going to start a new thread about it but then thought better not - it would be hard to avoid spoiler information getting mixed in.

I had exactly the same thoughts, before I even started. I was another of the ones to get hit be disease, literally the turn I completed my Granary and went into 4-turn mode. Only the once, at least.

tR1cKy · Apr 2, 2005

Vanilla - Open class - Here's the detailed log of the ancient age.

Opening moves.

Settled SE and moved the worker east to work the floodplain tiles. At this point going east and north seems to be the best (and suggested) path. Mountains, hills, rivers... I take the risk to send the 1st and the 2nd warrior around that area, thus leaving my capital undefended for a few turns. If there was a strong opponents west i was doomed... but i wasnt.

Research is set to Iron Working at minimum. I want to see iron as soon as possible, and with Bronze Working already known the path is short.

Expansion

3500BC - several things are spotted. A probable sea east and a fine source of spices, far in the NE.

3200BC - spotted the border of Rome SE of Persia- approaching

3100BC - settler built in Persepolis. Roman warrior + settler approaching. Made contact. Traded Alphabet for Masonry+40 gold. This sucker already knows Bronze Working. Probably a hut. Persepolis is building a warrior, i cannot risk something coming from west or north (it's difficult that there's someone south, not enough landmass)

3050BC - Founded Pasagardae.

3000BC - first warrior, now SE, is heading west. The roman warrior+settler follows in the same direction 2 tiles south.

2900BC - Romans found Veii. Spotted sea west?

2850BC - Sea west. Persepolis produces a warrior. Unit sent north exploring. Once again, there seems to be a suggested path (north of Pasagardae) made of mountains and hills. I follow it.

2470BC - The 2 wandering warriors are following a sort of spiral path. Lots of terrain discovered. Sea at west, for sure. Possibly spotted the end of the jungle at north.

2350BC - Disease strikes Persepolis damnit! But the city is size 2 so it should suffer only 1 pop loss instead of 2. Meet the japanese to the north. Trade everything. Alphabet + Masonry for Wheel, Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code. Rome has already Iron Working. I was short 6 turns... btw, i can buy it in return of the Wheel and 20 gold. The trade is done. Spotted 2 sources of iron!

2030BC - Founded Susa. Beaten the romans that were headed in the same zone. They retreat. Rome starts the Pyramids. Fine addiction to my empire.

1990BC - Spotted a roman warrior not too distant from Japan. Probably they will meet each other. See Japan. He has Mysticism. Sold Iron Working for Mysticism + 20 gold. Sold Ceremonial Burial to Caesar for 62 gold (all he's got).

1725BC - Founded Arbela. The romans have Writing. Bought it it for Misticism and 160 gold.

1700BC - Pottery can be researched in 4 turns, at 2.8.0. It costs less than buying it. I decide to research it.

1600BC - Done with pottery. Polytheism in 16 turns. Good.

1450BC - Found Antioch. Its place claims the iron tile and a spice tile. I leave the iron tile unconnected, so to build el-cheapo warriors and upgrade them later.

1375BC - Spotted a roman warrior+settler heading for the zone that i selected for my next city, south and west of Persepolis. They'll arrive first. No problem. Once war starts, it will be an easy conquest, and i'll have spared the settler to found it

1325BC - Founded Tarsus

1275BC - Rome founds Pisae exactly where i wanted to put my coastal city.

1100BC - Researched Polytheism

1050BC - Founded Gordium. Some readjustements in production. Budget set to 1.9.0. Monarchy due in 16 turns (was 19)

1000BC - Celts have built the oracle. Rome has discovered Code of Laws. Japan has Map Making. The reason why i'm not trading Polytheism is that i want Rome to go for the republic path rather than monarchy. The same for Japan, but i'm not counting on that too much. That's why i'm waiting another turn or 2. I'm at risk of being screwed up if someone research it...

975BC - Rome has completed the Pyramids. Japan (Kyoto) was building it as well and switches to the Great Lighthouse.

950BC - Another check at Rome. Time to trade. Polytheism and 20 bucks for Code of Laws, territory map and a fine roman worker. Sold Code of Laws and Polytheism to Japan for Map Making, Horseback Riding and a world map. Back to Rome. My world map and 30 gold for Caesar's world map. And now i know the whole continent.

775BC - Founded Bactra.

710BC - Can found a city... but it's better wait to discover monarchy (1 turn left). I've heard that the more cities you have, the more turns of anarchy you may suffer. 1 turn late won't harm. Troops amassment continues. The turn ends. In the interturn i discover monarchy and hold a revolution immediately, as i did before. Domestic advisor tell me that i have to go on 1 turn of anarchy. Phew...

690BC - anarchy. 3 workers arrive to the iron tile, ready to connect it next turn. Research set to philosophy at minimum (i'm not sure if i did it or not). Founded Sidon, while in anarchy.

670BC - established monarchy. Now i need a few turns to gather the necessary money for a mass upgrade of all the warriors.

The Roman war

650BC - Caesar try to extort monarchy. I refuse. He declares. Iron is connected, and the 2 first warriors are upgraded to immortals.

590BC - An immortal attacks an archer in open plains and my golden age begins.

510BC - Captured Veii. Lost 1 immortal. Lost another one attacking a spearman damn it!

490BC - Failed to capture Hispalis. 3 immortals. All 3 dead against 2 spearmen. The city is size 4 on grassland and no walls are present. Go figure.

450BC - Captured Hispalis. Killed some pesters. An immortal attack a warrior and lose. Their name starts to look like a mockery.

370BC - Captured Neapolis. I was planning a blitz war... but it's better to prosecute it. I'm in a golden age and cranking up military like crazy. Rome has still iron unconnected, except for one city that i'm going to attack now. Set budget to 3.7.0 and philosophy is due in 1 turn.

350BC - Researched Philosophy

330BC - Captured Pompeii, but an immortal is killed by a legionary. Golden age for Rome. But immortals continue flowing from north, and an attack to the Roman capital seems all but impossible.

310BC - Traded monarchy to the Japanese for 130 golds. Rushed a temple in Veii

250BC - Triggering a golden age for Rome has turned out to be good. Colossus completed in Cumae.

230BC - Adjusted budget to 4.6.0 to research Currency in 1 turn.

210BC - Mastered Currency

190BC - Founded Tyre. Rome has Construction! Good. Since it's the only tech of the ancient ages (compulsory) that i miss, research is set to Absolute Zero.

170BC - Captured Roma, with heavy losses.

150BC - Captured Cumae, and the Colossus.

130BC - Failed attack on Lutetia! Once again, incredibly bad odds. And they are called "Immortals"...

90BC - Captured Lutetia and Ravenna.

70BC - Got Construction from Japan, in return for Currency. Acquired Monotheism as a free tech. I'm in Middle Ages now. Research set to Feudalism at minimum (10.0.0 with a specialist). I have 19 cities and judging from the demographic screen i'm #1 almost everywhere. I'm also in possess of 2 useful wonders: the Pyramids (Rome) and the Colossus (Cumae)

------------

Contacts:

3100BC - Rome
2350BC - Japan

Research:

4000BC - Bronze Working (prerequisite)
4000BC - Masonry (prerequisite)
3100BC - Alphabet (trade with Rome)
2350BC - The Wheel (trade with Japan)
2350BC - Ceremonial Burial (Japan)
2350BC - Warrior Code (Japan)
2350BC - Iron Working (Rome)
1990BC - Mysticism (Japan)
1600BC - Pottery (own research)
1100BC - Polytheism (own)
950BC - Code of Laws (Rome)
950BC - Map Making (Japan)
950BC - Horseback Riding (Japan)
710BC - Monarchy (own)
350BC - Philosophy (own)
210BC - Currency (own)
70BC - Construction (Japan)
70BC - Monotheism (scientific free tech)

No screenshots at the moment. I haven't one timed at 70BC and i don't want to reload past turns. Will post them once the game is over.

DBear · Apr 3, 2005

DBear's GotM41o Ancient Age highlights:

Towns founded:
3950BC Persepolis
2430 Pasagardae
2150 Susa
1675 Arbela
1575 Antioch
1200 Tarsus
1075 Gordium
950 Bactra
850 Sidon
630 Tyre
470 Sardis
410 Samaria
390 Hamadan
330 Ergili
290 Dariush Kabir

Technologies:
4000BC Mason + Bronze (start)
3450 Pottery (learn)
2550 Ironwork (learn)
1870 Alpha (learn)
1790 CB (trade)
1600 Wheel (learn)
1250 Math (learn), Writing + Mystic + War Code (trade)
775 Poly (learn), Map + Horse (trade)
470 Philo (trade)
310 Monarch (learn), Law + Construct (trade)
70 Currency (learn), Mono (bonus)

Wars:
370BC- Japan. Rome had been hittin' them bad and I decided to pile on.

contacts:
1790BC Romans
1350BC Japanese

Scores:
QSC: 208 Firaxis, 2109 QSC.
Ancient: Persia 436, Rome 407, Japan 294

In the 700s BC, I see that Rome and Japan are at war. And they have to go thru my lands to kill each other.

370BC: Golden Age begins
310 4 turn revolt to monarchy

Rome must've got a GL, because I got a notice that they started and built the GWall on the same turn.

Damn Romans built Byz on the peninsula in 590BC

Niklas · Apr 4, 2005

, open.
Goal: Diplomacy probably.

After missing the diplomacy award in GotM40 by a mere 3 turns, I decided to give it another try in this game. At least that was the plan, but in this game it was easy to diverge. You'll see how well I could stick to the plan... :crazyeye:

My early game was similar to most others, settling SE and setting up a 4-turn factory. I got hit by disease in 2070 in Persepolis and Pasagardae at the same time, Pasagardae was only pop 2 though so I lost 3 pop in total. What I did different from most others (I think) was my perhaps biggest mistake in the AA: My early build sequence was warrior-worker-granary. Yeah, that's right, only one scouting warrior, which cost me valuable turns of research. Here's the full story:

Major events:
Met Japan in 3300 BC.
Met Rome in 2470 BC(!!).
The remaining AA was rather uneventful. Rome flaunted some archers along my borders, but played (foolishly) nice. Japan kept to their side of the jungle. I kept amassing warriors, waiting for a chance to upgrade them once I had Republic.
Rome tried to steal my iron...

... so there was only one thing to do - steal it back! :lol:

QSC stats
----------------------------
Towns:
11 towns, 34 pop (34 happy...)

Buildings:
2 granaries
1 library
4 barracks

Units:
1 settler
9 workers
1 galley
23 warriors (15 vets, 8 regs)

Techs:
Missing techs Maths, Curr, Constr, Poly and govs. Republic due in 5 turns.

Contacts:
Know Rome and Japan, embassy in Rome.

Misc:
37 gp
-2 gpt
----------------------------

I finished Republic in 875 BC, got 5/3 turns of anarchy.
Connected to Iron in 850 BC.
Came out of anarchy in 800 BC, and lo and behold, I'm paying 60gpt in troop upkeep! Big miscalculation, need to go to war at once. But what have we here, a Roman settler/spear pair entering my lands. I tell them to leave and he declares on me.

My immortals were swift (eh, or not) and vengeful, despite some early bad RNG luck. I lost 4 veteran immortals to regular spears on flat land in the first turn, before the fifth survived (redlined) and started our golden age. The war with Rome continued into the MA, but they never posed a problem since they never bothered to connect either of their iron sources. :eek:

In 750 BC a galley made it across and met the others, securing some but not all remaining techs. I finally researched Currency in 550 BC and entered the MA.

Tech:
4000 BC: Bronze Working (free)
4000 BC: Masonry (free)
3400 BC: Pottery (researched)
3300 BC: Ceremonial Burial (from Japan)
3300 BC: The Wheel (from Japan)
2590 BC: Alphabet (researched, met Rome 3 turns later)
2590 BC: Mysticism (from Japan)
2470 BC: Warrior Code (from Rome)
2390 BC: Iron Working (from Rome)
1990 BC: Writing (researched)
1600 BC: Literature (researched)
1450 BC: Philosophy (researched)
1400 BC: Horseback Riding (from Rome)
1250 BC: Code of Laws (researched)
1075 BC: Map Making (from Rome)
875 BC: Republic (researched)
750 BC: Mathematics (from [purple AI])
750 BC: Construction (from [yellow AI])
630 BC: Polytheism (researched)
550 BC: Currency (researched), enter MA.

Things I did right
* I set up a nice RCP at 3 and 6. My RCP 3 towns would continue to be highly productive throughout the game, and the RCP 6 towns provided plenty of both beakers and units.
* I had enough units when I went to war. So many other times I've been standing there with the long face, watching the single remaining redlined now-elite spear in the enemy capitol. Not this time.

Things I could have done better...
* I built only one scouting warrior. Because of this I didn't meet Rome early, and had to research Alphabet on my own. I estimate that this cost me about 4 turns to Republic, and possibly more to MA. Rome was one of my better trading partners despite being isolated in the early game. Had we met earlier I might have gotten help with one or two techs more before the war.
* I researched Literature before the Republic. I figured libraries would help me towards Republic, but as this was in the middle of my most aggressive expansion I had no time to build the libraries anyway.
* I badly underestimated the upkeep I had to pay to sustain my army. I would probably have been better off, research-wise, by connecting the iron quickly and hand-build fewer immortals instead of upgrading ~20 warriors. I had to turn off research for a few turns just to get that army going.

Off to the MA...

k-a-bob · Apr 5, 2005

Vanilla, Mac, Open
(now braver after my first Game last month)

I don't settle the fur! I head for the hill NE and settle, start on Iron immediately. I want to know where I need to go ASAP. Hopefully we aren't cursed.

I don't have many notes - I will start next month with taking better notes.
Meet Rome first, trade low level techs. Japan not too much later (they don't have a lot to trade.)

I then beeline to Monarchy. I see the 2 irons east and north and make roads to both for my settlers to get there quick. Both times, I just barely beat the Japanese and Romans to the spots!

Just after my switch to Monarchy around 1000 BC, sneak attack! Romans hit with their legions - now in a GA (and they were already fighting Japanese). I have about 6 immortals at that point, so I trigger mine as well. We are both strong, I take Pompeii on the coast, attack Veii but cannot hold. Then the Roman counter and take my iron city (on a hill - spearman goes down to archer who doesn't lose a HP. :rolleyes:

Sue for peace in 190 BC, gaining 1 tech. If I'd done it before losing Bactra, I would've gotten 2 plus a pot full of gold. Oh well.

I get construction in 10 BC - and get mono. At the same time, my other iron city flips to the Japanese!! No more Immortals! Obviously, this means war - and I pick the Japanese, so hopefully I don't ever face Samurai. They are weaker than Rome also.

This ends my AA...

(Things go much better in the MA...)

Tubby Rower · Apr 6, 2005

Goal: Domination

I decided I was going to go after my neighbors first before exploring. Since this one was Monarch and basically I'd be setting the research pace, I decided to "help" Japan & Rome along.

I was hit with 2 or 3 diseases. That really sucked. I wasn't able to expand like I wanted but I was able to get caught up. It probably cost me quite a few turns on my final victory.

Rome started to come through my territory and at first I let them due to lack of military. Then after I had some immortals I asked them to leave and Caesar told me that my mom had hairy thighs and then it was on. I signed on Japan and the war continued into the early MA

AA techs
researched
Pots (3400)
Alpha (2900)
Writing (2150)
Math(1575)
CoL (1250
Phil(1125)
The Republic (670)
Currency (470)
Constr (350) <into MA free tech = Feud

Contacts
Romans (2950)
Japan (2950)
Celts (775)
Iroquois(750)
Ottomans (750)
English (725)
Spanish (725)

Spoiler QSC turnlog :

ControlFreak · Apr 6, 2005

I decided to put up my spoiler before investigating the unpredictable Governor tile selection.

PTW Open - Goal: Domination

Opening Moves
I founded on the SE furs as many have. Persepolis made 2 warriors for scouting and a worker to help the forest chops before starting it's granary. Granary was built in 2710BC and the first settler took 5 turns, finishing in 2550BC. There after, settlers were four turns each.

After looking at the map, I decided I would be sacrificing too many good tiles if I stuck to RCP so I ended up building a hybrid R4-5 (three at R4 and five at R5). The outer cities would be at R10. In fact my fourth city was at R10 and helped grab the iron with culture expansion. This approach worked well as my R10 cities were still fairly productive and I covered a lot of territory early with cheap librarys.

Stunting Rome
I found Rome in 3100BC. Two turns later, I was on a mountain next to a Roman worker and decided to snatch and run. I also noted a warrior/settler pair two tiles to the north. I declared war, captured the worker and moved him next to the settler pair, hoping the warrior would come down to grab the worker and I could hit him for all three pop points. The settler pair ignored my bait and ended up founding Veii before I could catch up to them. After some debate, I decided to attach Veii with my solo warrior. Luck was on my side and I ended up razing the town. My slave and wounded warrior were able to retreat to safety before the archers came. I settled for peace when the enemy was at the gate for techs and all their gold.

This seemingly insignificant war CRIPPLED Rome. They had much fewer cities, no terrain improvements including roads. I think I took their only worker and they never built another until near the end.

Technology
3950BC - Start Potteryat MAX
3400BC - Pottery, turn off Science
2900BC - Wheel, CB from Japan for Bronze and Masonry
2750BC - Alphabet, Warrior Code from Rome for Peace.
2750BC - Start Writing at MAX
2150BC - IW from Rome for CB, Wheel, Pot (they never met Japan)
2150BC - Mystism from Japan for Alpha
2030BC - Writing Learned, Start Literature at Max
1600BC - Literature Learned, Start Code at Max
1375BC - Code Learned, Start Phil at Max
1250BC - Phil Learned, Start Republic at Max
0825BC - Republic Learned, Big picture Anarchy gives 6 turns, Revolt at pop up gives 3

Map Making was bought from Japan at some point, all other techs were free (learned via the Great Library or Scientific trait).

The Fall of Rome (The Rise of the Persians)
After the worker theft, I switched to mostly builder mode. Most towns got a barracks before starting warriors. I built some libraries where I could to have more workable tiles and to build culture for my plan of eventually capturing and keeping of cities. I had only a few warriors on defense when Rome sneak attacked me. They had two archers, one outside two different cities. The resident MP warriors were luckily able to fend off both attacks, and that was the extent of Rome's offense. I started building up warriors, but as I didn't want a Golden Age in despotism, I sent them as is to Rome, just to harrass them. I danced on the Mountains, staying on the opposite side of the river. On defense, my warriors killed many archers by the defensive advantages of the mountains/rivers (and we were a bit lucky with the RNG). On offense, I attacked archers that strayed out into the flatlands near my warriors. I had a benefitial win/loss record that was amplified by the fact that my units cost 10s while the opponents cost 20s. Rome started to be gassed and my dances had fewer and fewer partners. I decided I was going to have to hit their cities before Republic so I started amassing archers. A stack of seven headed for Rome but ended up being decimated by the spear on defense there. So I went back to dancing and waited for Republic/Immortals.
...
I got really bogged down trying to get my immortals down to Rome. I also lost track of the southern iron supply and let Rome found Neopolis on the iron hill before I realized it. Up to then, they hadn't connected the Iron to the SE so I faced no legionary. Now that Neopolis was founded on iron, I had to take on a legionary just to raze their iron source. Rome's Golden Age started. Retasking my army from dancing to eliminating Neopolis allowed Cumae to hook up their iron also. (WHAT A MISTAKE) My Golden Age came and went before Rome was eliminated in 70BC (Although, some of the slowness was because I hesitated sending a lot of troops South, knowing they had to turn around and march North against Japan.)

Wonders
Having been on the under-populated continent, I feared that the rest of the world might be way ahead in tech by the time I got there. I had beelined to literature for the culture aspect but used the tech to begin the Great Library. The turn before it was due, I realized that only the Oracle had been completed. I could have whichever Wonder I wanted. I chose the pyramids because of the size of our continent. I could quickly outpace the other civs with a granary in every town captured/founded on our continent. I had started another prebuild that would eventually grab the Great Library anyway.

I also managed to build the Great Lighthouse and the Colosus back to back in an R5 coastal city and the Hanging Gardens in an inland core city. One civ on the other continent managed to build the Oracle and the Great Wall. I'm not sure what the other AI were working on but what ever it was, they weren't fast enough.

Playing dirty with the Japanese
I wanted to make up time lost in the Roman War so I dedided to use ROP Rape against Japan. I had found the other continent and there was no doubt I could eliminate Japan before they could ever get the word out. So I sent several strike forces through the Japanese Road system. And when they were in place Japan never knew what hit them. In the first turn of war (70BC), four towns were razed and two captured. It seemed that they had been in a farmer's gambit as well. Most towns had no population points and only had a warrior defending. By 30AD, all their towns were captured or auto-razed, but they had at least one settler floating on a boat. The first showed up along the spice pennisula and was quickly destroyed with local troops.

"Iron"ically, they ended up founding Hakodate in 70AD on the remains of Neapolis (I CANT BELIEVE I MADE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE :mad:

) It took me a long time to re-task my troops back to the south. Japan was finally eliminated in 230AD.

More growth
With Rome being pitiful and Japan autorazing 60% of their cities, I had a lot of territory to found, so after the Pyramid build, Persepolis went back to settler production. The first few were 2 or three turns each until I fell back to 4-turn factory mode. I also needed lots of workers to get the new citys of the Republic connected and eating. (Almost all worker improvements were irrigation.) I mixed several workers in between settlers and had three or four productive cities just building workers.

Productive city-wise, I had three coastal cities building galleys and everyone else was building barracks and then immortals. Non-productive cities slowly built towards librarys and then temples or workers. I had a plan to conquer the world but that story is to be told in the next spoiler.

QSC
9 cities, 9 workers, 18 warriors, 2 archers, 3 barracks, a granary and a library. QSC score is 3771 according to CrpMapStat.

My Empire at 1000BC:

My R10 Iron town at 1000BC and the dancing army outside of Rome:

DJMGator13 · Apr 6, 2005

I settled on the fur hill and build warrior, worker, granary, then started on settlers. I met Rome in 2800BC and Japan in 2070BC. Here is my editted event log from Dianthus Viewer program.

Turn 2 : 3950BC
Persia settled Persepolis

Turn 33 : 2470BC
Persia settled Pasargadae

Turn 40 : 2190BC
Persia settled Susa

Turn 49 : 1830BC
Persia settled Arbela

Turn 51 : 1750BC
Persia settled Antioch

Turn 57 : 1600BC
Persia settled Tarsus

Turn 60 : 1525BC
Persia settled Gordium

Turn 63 : 1450BC
Persia settled Bactra

Turn 70 : 1275BC
Persia settled Sidon

Turn 73 : 1200BC
Persia settled Tyre

Turn 74 : 1175BC
Persia settled Sardis

Turn 80 : 1025BC
Persia settled Samaria

QSC Summary
5 workers, 15 warriors
6 barracks, 2 granaries
12 cities, pop 31, tiles 101

I issue DOW on Rome in 825BC, after noticing that Romes 2 iron sources are not connected to the rest of their empire. I kick off the war by autorazing Veii and kicking off my DESPOTIC Golden Age. I receive good news in 800BC Rome has built the Pyramids.

Turn 87 : 850BC
Persia settled Hamadan

Turn 93 : 710BC
Persia captured the Roman city Rome
Rome has 9 cities left, but only 1 is above size 1 so I sue for peace gaining 4 more cities.
Persia captured the Roman city Viroconium
Persia captured the Roman city Hispalis
Persia captured the Roman city Pisae
Persia captured the Roman city Neapolis
I also sign a ROP with Japan this turn

So after razing 1 city and capturing another my war with Rome is over and Rome has been crippled.

Turn 97 : 630BC
Persia settled Ergili

Turn 98 : 610BC
Persia settled Dariush Kabir
Persia settled Ghulaman
Persia settled Zohak

Turn 100 : 570BC
Persia settled Istakhr
Persia settled Jinjan

430BC my galley sinks just off the coast of the other continent but luckily one of the AIs sent out a galley so contact was established. I proceed to make contact with everyone and acquire a world map. I also trade my way into the Middle Ages.

Reach Middle Ages 430BC
24 cities, pop 72, tiles 217

6 workers, 10 warriors, 32 immortals

Mark Cutt · Apr 7, 2005

Still looking for the fastest 20K award
I settled NE, then built warrior, worker, granary, warrior. The settler factory was ready in 2630BC.
I built at ring 4 and 7.
Discovered Pottery in 3400BC, then stopped research because there was no second level tech I could research. In 3300BC I met Rome, buy Alphabet and start researching Writing. Discovered Writing in 2310BC, Literature in 1750BC, Philosophy in 1600BC, Code of Laws in 1425BC and eventually Republic 1075BC.
Meet Japan in 2390BC.
I got a 2 turns anarchy therefore Persia became a Republic in 1025BC.
I had no problem with barbarians, no illness, nobody attacked me. I accepted few requests for money and tech by Rome and Japan.
My culture city Pasargadae was founded in 2390BC, built Temple in 1830BC, Library in 1650BC. I decided to build Forbidden Palace in Pasargadae both because it has a decent culture per shield ratio and to decrease corruption. FP was ready in 1175BC. At that time Pasargadae was a 7 citizens city (the maximum I could afford). It reached 9 around 1000BC.

At the end of the QSC period I had:
13 cities
44 citizens
5 warriors
7 workers + 1 slave
2 Barracks
4 Libraries
1 Temples
1 Granary
Forbidden Palace

I connected Iron in 710BC and started the warrior upgrade. In 590BC I decided I was ready for the Golden Age and attacked Rome.
In the meanwhile I discovered Mathemtics in 925BC, Currency in 825BC, Construction in 730BC and Polytheism in 650BC. I entered MA and get Engineering as a free tech.

PaperBeetle · Apr 7, 2005

Wow, everybody is going for 20k! I hoped maybe it would be under-represented, given the uninspiring start position - few hills and bonus graslands.
Also, there seems to be a lot of interest in the SW coast. I had a look down there with my scouting warriors, but I think it's a red herring. I am going for 20k in the capital, which can do 20spt in Republic without much effort, and maybe squeeze another shield or two if I work at it.

Culture builds (dates are F5 style)...
palace -3950
temple -2390
Pyramids -1250
library -1175
Great Library -370
Hanging Gardens -90
cathedral 30
colosseum 70

As an afterthought, has anyone tried doing 20k in the capital, building a palace elsewhere while prebuilding for Forbidden in the capital, timed to finish in quick succession? This gives the 20k city the capital's benefit of being quick off the mark culturally, and later the Forbidden's benefit of palace prebuilding and, if done early enough, 4cpt instead of the palace's 2cpt.
But then again, maybe one should have better things to do with one's shields...

Redbad · Apr 7, 2005

PaperBeetle said:
As an afterthought, has anyone tried doing 20k in the capital, building a palace elsewhere while prebuilding for Forbidden in the capital, timed to finish in quick succession? This gives the 20k city the capital's benefit of being quick off the mark culturally, and later the Forbidden's benefit of palace prebuilding and, if done early enough, 4cpt instead of the palace's 2cpt.
But then again, maybe one should have better things to do with one's shields...

I did that in COTM10. I started 20K in the capitol. My fourth or fifth city was totally dedicated to building the palace. After an entire era buiding the palace it was finished at the time the capitol had a Sun Tzu prebuild for FP ready.

I don't know if it was worth the trouble?

Skydance · Apr 7, 2005

Redbad said:
I don't know if it was worth the trouble?

My guess would be, it's probably not worth the trouble building the palace by hand. However, if you are expanding through conquest (to make sure you have the tech to build Wonders, and your enemy doesn't), you probably want to set up a second center. Using a leader to rush the Palace for a second center does sound worth the cost of 200 shield to prebuild the FP for your capital, if you get lucky enough to coordinate it. Timing of the Leader would be key: if he appears when you have 170 - 220 shields in your capital, then I like the option. If not, it's probably better to use him to rush a wonder in your capital.

civ_steve · Apr 8, 2005

1.27f

Opening sequence is very similar to several others: move Settler SE, found on Furs, build Warrior, Warrior, Worker, Granary, Settler, etc. Founding on Furs and getting the extra shield is very nice!! Granary was on-line about 2750, and first Settler in 2510. I was hit with disease once, just as I was finishing my second Settler (2350 BC). I pretty much built Settlers in Persepolis after that, except for a short period where I bulked up my worker force.

Initial Research was on Pottery, then Alphabet. Contacted Rome in the late 3000's (actually, one of their Archers passed by and said hello - my 2 warrior scouts headed to the North, including that tantalizing spur of Jungle going east to ... nowhere

) I was able to trade Masonry and Pottery to Ceasar for Alphabet. Decided to leave Writing to the AI, and to research Mathmatics next. Met Japan in 2900 BC, trading for Wheel and CerBur, then going back to Ceasar was able to trade CerBur for WarCode, keeping Wheel out of his hands (for now). No Horses (so far) anyway.

Pasargadae was founded 3 NE of Persepolis; I thought this a very powerful location with some Floodplains, furs, several Hills and Mountains and getting both Gold Mountains within it's radius. After that I designed a RCP-5 distance ring figuring that 1 city at rank 1 would not increase the corruption for this main ring too much. Regarding Iron, here's how I placed my cities to grab the Iron - I wanted more river spaces, and a connection to Spice so this placement got me both and culture over the Iron.

AI Relations. Both Rome and Japan are militaristic, so some aggression can be anticipated. Ceasar shows up demanding Wheel - I give it to him, at the time I had maybe 4 Warriors.

After I'd learned Math, Japan shows up demanding it. I see no Japanese units nearby, and I had the feeling that Rome and Japan were at war (based on Roman troop movements), so I said no, and he backed down. A few turns later, I see some more Roman units move within 2 spaces of some undefended Persian cities, so I contact Ceaser - still polite - and borrow 17 Gold, paying back 1 gpt. He was probably heading off for Japan, but I hoped to keep his mind off me, and either way, he didn't attack. That was it except for a horrible backstabbing that occured in 710 BC. (more about that later)

I'd learned Math (around 2390 BC), and Writing wasn't available yet (Japan knew Mysticism, so I traded Math for Mysticism right after he had demanded Math.) I powered on to Currency, learned in 1500 BC. Now Rome knew Writing, but wouldn't trade it for Math and Myst. At 100% I could learn Writing in 6 turns, so I did one turn of Research on Writing, and now Math and Myst were enough to get it in Trade - 1475 BC. After that, Philosophy in 1350 and Code of Laws in 1150. I started on a minimum research of Literature. That was it for the QSC period. My QSC stats: 9 towns, 26 citizens, 1 Granary and 2 Barracks, 13 Workers and 18 Warriors (10 are Vets), 281 Gold and gaining at 41 gpt, and missing Lit, Poly, HBackRiding (which Ceasar knows) and Construction, and the 2 Govt. Techs.

Here's a picture of the backstabbing of 710 BC:

In 1150 BC, I established an embassy with Rome and saw that they were 4 turns from completing the Pyramids, and had no Iron connected. I signed a ROP, and sent some Workers off to build a road system so I could move my Immortals into position quickly. So I've got stacks of 3 Immortals next to 6 Roman cities, with not a Legionaire in sight! In 730 BC I got notice that Ceasar had started building the Great Wall; I decided to use my Currency and about 6 gpt to get Construction and HorsebackRiding from him prior to attacking. In 710 BC I attack, taking 4 cities and razing 2. I turned research back on, finishing off Literature, and learning Poly (no help from Japan) in 570 BC, entering the Middle Ages. After healing and Regrouping, a 10 high stack of Immortals captures Rome in 550 BC - I have one Elite that I saved for his Roman archer, and after taking out 4 Spearmen losing only 1 Immortal, my Elite gets pincushioned by this stupid Archer taking 5 HP's without landing one on the Archer!!! The next Immortal remedies the situation, but no Elite and no shot at GL. I will say I signed Peace with Rome in 510 BC, gaining 2 cities, and leaving him with just 2 ... for now!

I've yet to make contact with anyone else, so it's just me, a very weak Rome and a very backward Japan left on the continent. I wonder if anyone else will survive to tell of my misdeeds? :mischief:

My goal for this GOTM is to shoot for a 100K victory, if I have the time.

Paul#42 · Apr 14, 2005

Open Game.
Immortal Rush? Get IW. Barracks. Early GA. No!!
Peace! Expansion. Granary, Worker. Settlers.

Settling
3950 founded Persepolis on furs SE.
1870 Persepolis suffers floodplain-desease.
RCP 4,6

Research
3450 Pottery
3200 Warrior Code from Rome
2550 Iron Working
2350 Ceremonial Burial
1990 Mysticism
1830 The Wheel from Japan
1625 Horseback Riding. Trade Alphabet
1425 Writing
1125 Mapmaking

Roman War
1425 Rome has not hooked up Iron yet. Maybe I should make a quick archer-rush. Pyramides are due in 16 turns.
1225 6 archers, 1 Warrior prepare to attack Rome.
1025 IBT Rome built Pyramides.
1050 Capturing Rome (size 6).
1000 BC made peace.
210 AD Erased Romans.

QSC Data:
11 Cities, pop 28. 2 Settler, 5 Worker, 1 Slave.
41 Gold in treasury.
8 Warrior, 3 Archer, 3 Spear.
Contacts: Rome, Japan.
Wonders: Pyramides captured (Rome).

Target: 100k. The continent should fit the task.

GOTM 41: First Spoiler

ControlFreak

Not An Addict, Really

AlanH

Mac addict, php monkey

CdB

Warlord

eldar

ChiefTank

tR1cKy

taking over the world

DBear

unbeliever

Niklas

Fully Functional

k-a-bob

Waiting patiently.......

Tubby Rower

Chronic Slacker

ControlFreak

Not An Addict, Really

DJMGator13

Wondering why Builders can't build Roads

Mark Cutt

Analytic Chieftain

PaperBeetle

Emperor

Redbad

should have shaved

Skydance

Chieftain

civ_steve

Deity

Paul#42

flyball chaser

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