tR1cKy
taking over the world
Yes, but we can have some nice steak then.Taxpayer'sMoney said:
GOTM 55 - Pre game Discussion
- Thread starter ainwood
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LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
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- 23,750
Più Freddo said:
I was thinking in terms of trading for pottery as an alternative, but that's iffy with archipelagos.
Nice summary on the other stuff you wrote. For me the big issue on deity level is not getting overrun by AI settlements. So one reason to go straight into settlers is to get my inner circle completed before the devils start lurking around my armpits. Since this starting location looks cramped against the ocean, a 3-ring may be what I want and I may want to delay the granary until after putting down about 5 settlements. What my real goal with that is to create warrior factories. Once the inner circle has several towns with barracks and at least a couple producing warriors every two turns, then I feel safe to build the granary.
One other good argument for an early granary is that you can also spit out a worker or two and let all your other towns grow as fast as possible.
What I'd really like to know, though, is what is the difference at, say, 1000 bc between making one settler then the granary and making about 4-5 settlers and then the granary. On a big map, I would go straight for the granary, but on a small map at the deity level, i wonder what SirPleb and those types would do.
F-86 Sabre
Chieftain
azzaman333 said:
{Slaps forehead} Duh!
LethalLogic
Chieftain
in GOTM54 I got squished. Deity makes me tremble, but I will go for it. Some really nice pointers by all of you thank you very much. Would be going conquest class and thus two settlers.
The only thing I would like to do is cut a small slice for myself (as we are on the tip of the map) and hold it long enough before the bigger badder guys throw me out.
Enough of being funny. I think my best bet would be a diplomatic victory with lots of molly coddling.
The only thing I would like to do is cut a small slice for myself (as we are on the tip of the map) and hold it long enough before the bigger badder guys throw me out.
Enough of being funny. I think my best bet would be a diplomatic victory with lots of molly coddling.
azzaman333
meh
LethalLogic said:
Dont worry, i got murdered in GOTM54 (muskets cant kill panzer...) and im still playing the deity game with no fear!
Maybe im stupid, but it hasnt stopped me berefo.
PaperBeetle
Emperor
tR1cKy said:
Good thinking that mouse. Founding the first town on the moo will free up room to put the second town on one of the wines
Rare beef and a claret, mmmm.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
As to building a granary:
Assume you have 5 excess food, and can thus pop out a settler every 8 turns with stable population, and assume you have the shields to do so.
If it takes 16 turns to build the granary (it will take less, but this is a simplifying assumption), that's 2 settlers before you get any, but you are then popping out settlers twice as fast - so you have 2 when before you would have 3, are tied at 4 and ahead after that.
It takes less than 16 turns to build the granary, of course - chopping trees help, and you will produce more shields at a higher level, but then, there is an advantage to having your second city out 12-16 turns earlier, so those things probably even out.
But that's not all - even when you run out of room to settler, the factory can *still* pump out worker after worker, for improvements or population growth in cities that you have set to, say, build military, and so have working 2 forests and aren't growing on their own.
I would be very suprised if the map is set up so you can't get more than 4 other cities - you might have to jam them in, but my guess is that you will be able to get 7-9 in if you are there with another civ. You might want to pop out one additional settler before building a granary, so someone can build some military to defend against barbs, for MP and for exploration.
What is an interesting question is: Can you build a 6 turner without a granary by irrigating cow and both wines? can you get enough shields to do that? I would think so, from size 5-7 - that makes for an interesting alternative.
oh - no barbarians. hmm. I'd almost bet that we are alone on this island. If it were us vs. 1 deity AI, we would get crushed without barbarians to distract them. And I dunno that we will have 2 AI on the same island as us on an arch map.
Assume you have 5 excess food, and can thus pop out a settler every 8 turns with stable population, and assume you have the shields to do so.
If it takes 16 turns to build the granary (it will take less, but this is a simplifying assumption), that's 2 settlers before you get any, but you are then popping out settlers twice as fast - so you have 2 when before you would have 3, are tied at 4 and ahead after that.
It takes less than 16 turns to build the granary, of course - chopping trees help, and you will produce more shields at a higher level, but then, there is an advantage to having your second city out 12-16 turns earlier, so those things probably even out.
But that's not all - even when you run out of room to settler, the factory can *still* pump out worker after worker, for improvements or population growth in cities that you have set to, say, build military, and so have working 2 forests and aren't growing on their own.
I would be very suprised if the map is set up so you can't get more than 4 other cities - you might have to jam them in, but my guess is that you will be able to get 7-9 in if you are there with another civ. You might want to pop out one additional settler before building a granary, so someone can build some military to defend against barbs, for MP and for exploration.
What is an interesting question is: Can you build a 6 turner without a granary by irrigating cow and both wines? can you get enough shields to do that? I would think so, from size 5-7 - that makes for an interesting alternative.
oh - no barbarians. hmm. I'd almost bet that we are alone on this island. If it were us vs. 1 deity AI, we would get crushed without barbarians to distract them. And I dunno that we will have 2 AI on the same island as us on an arch map.
@tR1cKy & PaperBeetle: What's this? Do I hear the beginnings of a Predator Red-Ambulance Contest? 
As noted I'm going for the Cow. Since I've never before won on deity, I'll be playing open, and won't feel bad about it one bit.
As noted I'm going for the Cow. Since I've never before won on deity, I'll be playing open, and won't feel bad about it one bit.
tR1cKy
taking over the world
Hehe... it wouldn't be a bad idea to try a weirdo game like that 
But i'll wait for lesser level games. A deity one like that deserves to be played seriously.
But i'll wait for lesser level games. A deity one like that deserves to be played seriously.Maybe I'll come back to PTW just for this one.
I'm inclined to go settler first. On Deity, we only have so many happy citizens, so keeping a large population is tough at first. Build the settler, hopefully claim another lux, then think about granaries.
Also, even though moving sw can be costly on Deity, if that really is coast up there to the E and NE then moving will in effect 'reserve' that land for us, and we could concentrate on settling W first to 'beat' the AI. Simply put, moving probably gains us land in this situation. Talk about your long term benefits...
I'm inclined to go settler first. On Deity, we only have so many happy citizens, so keeping a large population is tough at first. Build the settler, hopefully claim another lux, then think about granaries.
Also, even though moving sw can be costly on Deity, if that really is coast up there to the E and NE then moving will in effect 'reserve' that land for us, and we could concentrate on settling W first to 'beat' the AI. Simply put, moving probably gains us land in this situation. Talk about your long term benefits...
tR1cKy
taking over the world
Seriously - i have downloaded the file but i still have to fire it up and start the mess, so here's what i intend to do.
Despite the level, i wouldn't be shy of spending one or two turns to find a central placement for the capital. A better RCP will more than offset the initial turn waste. Given a probable coast E (it could be a lake, but with an archi map it's more likely to be coast), settling one or two tiles SW may be worth it. Anyway, working the cow seems mandatory so i'll move the peon on it, see what terrain is revealed and decide what to do.
Are we isolated? I think it doesn't matter. With Alphabet as a prerequisite, a min run on writing with the money saved to buy some techs later seems the best option anyway. What follows depends on the map. Pottery -> Maps at max if we're isolated, Literature (with Pottery likely to be traded) if someone else shows up.
If we're isolated BUT the island is big enough trying to build the Pyramids may be worth it. If someone beat us to it, we're likely to cascade on Great Library of Great Lighthouse.
Despite the level, i wouldn't be shy of spending one or two turns to find a central placement for the capital. A better RCP will more than offset the initial turn waste. Given a probable coast E (it could be a lake, but with an archi map it's more likely to be coast), settling one or two tiles SW may be worth it. Anyway, working the cow seems mandatory so i'll move the peon on it, see what terrain is revealed and decide what to do.
Are we isolated? I think it doesn't matter. With Alphabet as a prerequisite, a min run on writing with the money saved to buy some techs later seems the best option anyway. What follows depends on the map. Pottery -> Maps at max if we're isolated, Literature (with Pottery likely to be traded) if someone else shows up.
If we're isolated BUT the island is big enough trying to build the Pyramids may be worth it. If someone beat us to it, we're likely to cascade on Great Library of Great Lighthouse.
Tallmidget
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 2, 2006
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- 3
I have Civ III Complete, is it still possible for me to play this scenario?If so how?
Tallmidget
Chieftain
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- 3
never mind my last question, I figured it out
StrictlyRockers
Chieftain
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IModerator Action: DELETED. Do not post here after you have started playing.
Desertsnow
πr²
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- Dec 13, 2004
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- 1,794
Deity? Aargh! I'm scared even to start this one. In the last GOTM I tried I got my heinie kicked--by France, ironically enough. 
(Actually I did start the recent Celts regent game [#53 if I recall rightly?] but never finished it.) 
I'd probably get pwned here. 
(Actually I did start the recent Celts regent game [#53 if I recall rightly?] but never finished it.) I'd probably get pwned here.
azzaman333
meh
Desertsnow said:Deity? Aargh! I'm scared even to start this one. In the last GOTM I tried I got my heinie kicked--by France, ironically enough.
I always get pwned on anything higher than Monarch. At least this will be a quick game
King Of America
Warlord
@Desertsnow and azzaman333 -- Try the Conquest class. Often the bonuses are enough to help or at least make it close.
azzaman333
meh
King Of America said:
Ill stay with open class. Makes me feel better when i get driven into the ground.
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