GOTM 65 Final Spoiler

jesusin

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GOTM65 Final Spoiler



So how did your game after 1AD go? Tell everyone and discuss in this thread, subject to...

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Did you settle in a nice site?
Did you find the Rhine's gold? :gold: :drool: :gold:
What have you learned this game?
 
Did you settle in a nice site?
Did you find the Rhine's gold?
What have you learned this game?

I settled 1N of the iron, iirc. Though I didn't know there was iron at the time, of course. I saw the trees and cows, and silver... figured it would be a good place to set up a CS-sling from Oracle. It was a good enough capitol, I supose. Though I would rather have started inside the Ring. ;)

I found the ring, but not until I had Persia down to just a couple cities... one of them was called Sidon, and when I got a map from somewhere, I saw that this was inside a ring of gold, with plenty of food to work them all. :goodjob: Of course, like an idiot, I proceeded to pillage all those gold mines and farms while my cata knocked down the city defenses. :lol:

So I took sidon with 2 macemen and a catapult, no losses. Captured 2 workers who had to rebuild everything. :rolleyes:

My second city was westward, like 2 rivers away... forget why, though. Maybe horses? Anyhow, I originally planned to put it near the stone and make Pyramids, but Persia beat me there. From 2 cities I made the Civil Service sling, and then wanted the Pyramids to help me in a space race goal. However, Persia built them. So I raced to machinery and took them with macemen. Unfortunately, Persia had acheived longbows by then, so the war was long, and required a ceasefire in the middle. With help from liberalism free technology (nationalism), I then went on to get cavalry, and take the Pyramids, plus everything else Persia owned (including Sidon, which was still only protected by axes, which is why the cats/mace worked so easily). By then I had filled out to the mountain barrier in the west. Health and happiness not a problem.

What did I learn (or re-learn): My main mistakes were two-fold. One, I switched to slavery early, but did not whip very much at all. My Heroic Epic city (#2 city) could produce a cavalry every 2 turns, so I didn't feel a need to whip military units. I whipped a few courthouses and Unis, but not as much as I should have... and I did not plan well for getting Oxford up early as I was in a war when I bulbed Edu finished and wasn't ready to make unis yet). My second main mistake was "a bridge too far". Having captured all of Persia, I had all those cavalry right next to China which was also defended by LB's. I DOW China and take one city, only to see everything upgraded to Grens next turn! I don't recall if I could have gotten a ceasefire then... I didn't even try but I should have. Instead, I promptly lost that city, and then lost and retook the Persian Versailles city twice before getting back to the pre-war status quo and giving education for peace. A short while later I have Panzers and capture all of China, though the two best cities revolted to India before my spaceship was done. So I got greedy and it cost me a lot of time.

I learned that a pre-combustion fort does not provide oil in Vanilla when combustion is learned... had to wait until I built a well. Mongols were most powerful and had declared war, but a single frigate/destroyer meant they couldn't touch me. I bribed Alex to fight the mongol hordes... which ended up costing Alex a few cities. I learned that Panzers are truly devastating to enemy infantry, especially when you catch them outside a city.

I completed my spaceship in 1950AD, which was very disappointing to me, but I suppose it accurately displays my skill level. All my SS games significantly faster than that include hand-picked opponents and map, plus regens for advantageous resources. Plus there was a lot of land in the north I never bothered to settle, so had more barb-trouble than I should have. This set-up provided a lot of challenge to the cookie-cutter type of space race I usually manage... so I enjoyed it a lot.

And the Ring... that was a thing of beauty. Thank you! :cool:
 
I settled 1S2W of the starting settler location after moving for two turns. I figured the cow and hills weren't awful for a start, and there likely wasn't anything better around.

Initial builds were worker-scout-settler. My first scout went west, and I didn't see any AI's until well into the second scout. My plan for the second city was to foolishly get Marble/Horses from Cyrus, not realizing that fighting a culture war with a creative civ early is a bad idea. Fortunately, I didn't make it there in time by one turn, and instead tried to culture fight cyrus for the cow in that area. I was going nowhere with that too (and realized it soon enough). My third city grabbed iron and I planned on conquering Cyrus with swords. The third city got rather quickly conquered by barbs, which were very strong (earlier axes and swords than I expected). I also lost a worker and spearman to the barbs in that encounter.

My fourth city was on the ring, which I found thanks to my western scout followed by a scouting workboat. I think my date to there was around 1500bc, although I don't remember for sure.

I crippled Cyrus with swords, and peaced for some techs, and made the unfortunately mistake of not crippling him further but decided on peacefully teching towards UN because I didn't want to play a huge military campaign. This was a mistake, because there 5 different active religions in the game, and thus I should have thought twice about trying for a peaceful diplo win with a small empire (8 cities). Ghenghis had about 30% of the world's population throughout the game.

Here I ran a specialist economy with no religion (and thus no pacifism benefits) and no parthenon. (I did have Pyramids thanks to Cyrus). I also built a somewhat late (500bc, I think) GLH because I had a bunch of coastal cities.

I grabbed Physics through Liberalism, and was set to get a ~1400 mass media. About this time I realized I was never going to win a vote, and detoured to Rifling/Military Tradition in order to do some... population gathering. This meant I got Mass Media in 1500s instead. Second, I settled an early GE instead of saving him for UN. My capital (on the ring) built UN in about 15 organic turns). This probably didn't actually matter, because I don't see how I would have gotten the votes in time, but it still pissed me off at the time.

I ended up having to take out the ~4 largest cities from Cyrus, Asoka, and Mao in order to squeak a diplomation vote, with Alex and eventually Napoleon voting for me. Finishing date was I think 1830s., can't remember.

I really liked this map. Looking it over, I still don't know great strategies for it. You can't both grab Rhine's gold and take out Cyrus effectively super-early (well, maybe you can, and moreover I bet one of you did it :) ). I'm guessing Rhine's gold is more important (to the point of settling 2nd city there if possible, and then fending off barbs on the mainland), but it does slow expansion a fair amount.
 
After 1 AD, I tried building the GLH, but missed it by two turns. I did get the Colossus in 560. My scouting had noticed the Rhine strangely running through the sea, but by the time my galley discovered exactly what the Ring was, Genghis had already settled there. About the same time, he built another city on my side of the mountain range.

But both of those cities were weakly defended, so in 1110 it was time for war! :viking:

My maces took both cities, followed by one more (Samarquand) on Genghis's side of the mountains, before I made peace in 1350. (His stacks of doom, including war elephants, were approaching.) As I built up the Ring, making use of the mines Genghis had already completed, I was able to trade that lovely gold for many other resources, and my score began to climb out of last place. And now the long era of peace was replaced with a long series of wars.

1595 - 1765: QSH makes war on Asoka.
1690 - 1765: Alex makes war on Asoka.
1804 - 1856: Cyrus makes war on QSH.

In 1812, I reject a demand from Genghis for Military Tradition, so he declares war on me. I manage to defend Samarquand in a war of attrition, while bribing Asoka to join me in the war. (As far as I could see, he never contributed anything to the effort.) Genghis had built a lot of frigates, which initially overwhelmed mine, but ironclads and then destroyers came along in time for me to turn the tide on the sea.

1850 - 1884: Alex makes war on Asoka, again.

In 1856, after Cyrus finished his war against QSH, he agreed to join my war against Genghis. But just like Asoka, his seems to be a phony war.

1866 - 1912: Napoleon makes war on Asoka.

I capture one more coastal city from Genghis, before seeing his garrison upgrade to infantry. I sign a peace treaty in 1866.

1870 - 1900: QSH makes war on Asoka.

In 1892, Cyrus asks me to rejoin the war against Genghis, and I agree. In 1894, I bribe Alex to joint this war. Cyrus then leaves the war in 1900, but Alex and I capture some more cities, before I sign a cease fire in 1914.

1927 - 1940: Cyrus makes war on QSH, again.

In 1927, I resume the war with Genghis. By 1934, Alex and I finally destroy the Mongols.

Meanwhile, Napoleon has completed the Apollo project in 1930 and has begun assembling his ship components. That's a good reason to knock him down, so I declare war on Napoleon in 1936, bribing Alex to join me and talking Asoka to join the war for nothing. (Once again, nothing was all his contribution was worth.) I take Marseilles, on the coast, and Gepid, a old barb city that Napoleon had captured, far on the western edge of the map. The latter was especially valuable, since it had the Statue of Liberty. After this, though, the war bogs down, with Napoleon's artillery obliterating a couple of stack I tried to advance into his interior. Cyrus has also completed the Apollo project, so it's time for me to concentrate on the space race, too. I make peace in 1949, followed by Asoka in 1963 and Alex in 1967.

Thus ends the era of warfare and begins the Space Age...with one exception. QSH completed his Apollo project in 2001 and Cyrus responded by conquering the last remaining Chinese city in the next turn!

Cyrus had built a significant lead with his space ship before my Apollo project completed in 1963, but between the Ring and my new Mongol territory, I now had a lead in score, GNP and manufacturing. With the help of the Space Elevator in the Ring and a final golden age in 1991, my space ship launches in 2006, for Space Race victory and 10945 points. Cyrus had two components to go, at that point.

My mistakes?

1. Not following the hints toward the Ring, earlier.
2. Not fog busting.
3. Not building the National Epic in a GP Farm, earlier.
4. Various tactical errors in the Napoleonic War, including not stopping the war earlier.

But I'll take the win and try to remember all of this, next time!
 
Domination 1949, I've lost two huge stacks of units from Mongols, when they declared on me, and I moved all my units to their land from eastern front, where Chinese were just finished and India should be started and finished within few turns... plan was to go for Napoleon after, but I abandoned my plans to take care of Mongols, and they killed all of my units - 40+ which I landed on forest near closest city, artillery is much more power in vanilla I guess, so I had to make other plans...

I had good production and a lot of cities, so it wasn't a big deal of renewing units, but things could be much faster if I kept to my original plan, which I did after two more attempts on Mongols, I gave them some tech for peace because of my war weariness and cause I got stacked without making any progress in conquering... in few turns I had enough army for Asoka and he lasted few turns, Alex then was in the mood for attacking Napoleon, so we attacked him from both sides and he lasted little longer then Asoka... after that me and Alex attacked Mongols, I needed Alex's culture borders, so I gave him some tech for dow-ing GK and I got my revenge on GK taking all of his cities... while waiting for borders to popup, I attacked Alex trying to get conquest instead of dom, but I was about 2 turns short for that...

I thought that divided map would be good for human player against AI, but didn't went so good for me, cause I couldn't finish Mongols wounded units while he did mine, several times... I learned a lesson from that and next time I had really huge stacks of units, when I dow-ed him, after conquering Napoleon, so he had no more chances of killing my forces, I grouped them together until few of his stacks were killed, and then went for other cities simultaneously...
 
Space win, 1874AD. I was quite disappointed by the date until I had another look at the map and realized just how bad the map was for decent land, with tundra everywhere, and our start squeezed between the tundra on one side and Cyrus and the Chinese very close on the other side.

At the start at the game, I decided, as I discussed in the pregame discussion, that there was no point exploring North given the hints of tundra there, so sent both scout and settler south. Settled 1S of where the iron turned out to be. 2nd city by the copper, and I'd realized by that point that due to lack of land, Cyrus was going to have to go. So in a series of wars, I eliminated the Persians, then removed the Chinese from the mainland. Now I was big enough to stand a chance of winning. Was also very happy to build the pyramids. I was slightly puzzled that the Chinese seemed to be teching very fast considering I'd reduced them to what must have been a couple of useless cities on islands somewhere, but didn't think too much of it.

It was not until much later that, while preparing to eliminate the chinese so I could get rid of any aspirations of 'we long to join our motherland' that I discovered the truth. One gold ring, and the Chinese capital right in the middle of it. And so well defended with numerous longbows that in the end I didn't even try to capture it until I had cannon. In my defence I'll merely comment that that ring had 8 golds, but a well planned cottage city should often be able to get 10 or 12 towns, and a town, once matured, is easily better than a goldmine anyway. So there! Actually I might have tried my luck at capturing the ring earlier but I had enough on my hands with numerous barbs spawning in the tundra, and a battle to take the good city sites to the west of the starting position before Genghis and Napoleon snatched them all.

At any rate nothing else particularly noteworthy happened. I destroyed the chinese quite easily, then destroyed India because they were putting too much cultural pressure on my ex-Chinese cities. Then cruised to a very late spacerace. One odd quirk of this game was that I decided to be exceptionally careful not to research any techs that I'd probably be able to get from an AI, unless the tech was urgent and vital. The result was that I won the spacerace without ever discovering democracy - coz even in 1874 none of the AIs had it (which I guess confirms the map was bad for science). I was quite surprised how well you can progress without it - had previously assumed it was essential for faster teching. I bet not many civs can say they built a spaceship while still having slavery! ;)
 
Late victory :( But victory :)

I settled north of Iron. Second city took copper, and rice in BFC, but Persian culture pressure took rice from me :(
Parsia was a pain, but we remain in peace for the whole time. At the end, I regain some land.

I lost Oracle and most of wonders, I managed only to build Stonehenge and Hanging Gardens among all early wonders ;/


I didn't find the ring early, I skipped sailing as well for a long time, so it was settled by Indians!

Thruogh early game I was producing a lot of axes and swords, but Cyrus was always ahead, when I wanted to attack him, he actually got feudalism :( what's more he captured barbarian city far in the west - all other western land was mine, inluding cottage floodplain megacity.

I transported 6 axes and two swords to the treasure island and captured indian city, soon after war ended. Unfortunately, a liitle earlier i build the forbidden palace in a nearby city, so I couldn't move capital to the island. Actually I did it only for a short time, while building oxford and moved capital back to Berlin, when I switched to Univ. Suffrage and emancipation.

Among late wonders I built Statue of Liberty and Pentagon and THDam, being far behind Asoka and Cyrus in techs. All Culture wonders and UN was build by Asoka.

I discovered Rocketry ver yvery late (I went for Indusrialism first), when Cyrus and Asoka has theirs Apollo Programs built.
Even though in military techs I was far ahead late game, I never declared on Cyrus. i had a huge stack instead just in case.

Cyrus was not a trouble at the end, as I took some of his mature cottages with culture

At the end I won space race, even though Asoka was the most advanced. I researched only space technologies and built last components with huge help of Space Elevator (engieneer rush)

Final date - 1994 space race victory, just few turns ahead Asoka.
All other civs were far behind in teechs
 
Domination 1655ad, lousy score due to lack of population (damn you war weariness :mad:).

Wandered around for some turns before settling near the starting point for silver + cows + FP (and later iron). Found Cyrus close by so decided to settle towards him. There were two nice city spots in between and Cyrus decided to pick the stone before me. That left me with copper and Cyrus with no option but to build me some cities and wonders to conquer. With those two cities I whipped some axes and started beelining Construction. My axe party took out Cyrus, getting Stonehenge in the process which was nice. I'm not sure if he had also built Mids (or maybe it was Qin or Asoka...) for me but got it too somewhere in the process.

Once Cyrus was gone I regrouped my axes (gotta love them as there is no counter for them in vanilla) and continued to Qin. Chinese had only 3 cities and I loved especially the one with double ivory. Got even more interested about the Construction that I got maybe around here. Once Qin was wiped out I waited for Asoka to build all those nice plantations around for me before DoWing him mercilessly. Those Indians didn't last long as I now had also cats around and started building phants too. Behind Asoka I found another Great Wall and Nappy, and noticed I have to research Fishing anyway. That was a bit disappointing. :(

I hadn't settled any cities to the west from the starting area so there were some barbs coming all the time to my capital. They were mainly nice exp for my few axes around, nothing more. I decided to send my troops there to conquer those barb cities and check what was behind the another Great Wall. I had gotten Mids (+ Sistine and some other wonders) as war trophy earlier and crushed my economy totally so it was time to switch to Repre, build some cottages around and get CoL with the gold from war efforts. I recall having around 50 gold in treasury with -10 gpt (0% science) and lots of wealth-building at some point. I spammed markets and courthouses everywhere and actually got out from the hole. Learning Alpha after 1000ad was fun and a bit different from my earlier games.

I didn't really have coastal cities so it took some time to research Fishing + Sailing and get some coastal barb cities online and building galleys. Genghis had built one city to my side of The Great Wall and he seemed to be a monster so he had to go next. Once I got the first galley built I started shipping my army of cats, maces and phants to the other side of The Great Wall. There were still few tiles that weren't inside the cultural borders of Genghis so I chose one of those tiles as my starting point. While shipping the whole army with just a few galleys I had time to scout the land. Around here I found out about the ring and noticed Nappy sitting there. :drool:

Once I was ready, I DoWed Genghis and started rampaging his lands. He had knights but those weren't much of a problem with an army of phants. The next turn Genghis bribed Nappy against me so I decided to gather a small force to take the ring from him. I kept building more units and even started to tech towards knights as my economy was ok at that point. I sent units to both fronts and gathered a nice army south near Nappy. Once I got my galleys there I shipped the whole bunch to Nappy's side and started messing with him too. After getting HBR + Guilds it was time to switch to Police State as unhappiness from warring started to hit 10+ per city. It helped some time but soon my cities were again very unhappy and I didn't have patience to keep whipping them the whole time. Conquering Genghis and Nappy simultaneously took longer than I expected (Genghis even got cavalry during the war but a couple cavs can't really do a squat to an army of phants + stuff) and my cities were very limited to 10 pop due to unhappiness problems even though I had all the Calendar-based luxuries without the actual tech. Finished with both of them around the same time and decided to leave Alex alone as I was only some tiles away from domination limit and he had been nice the whole time.

This was really the first time I actually kept going offensive almost all the time. And the first time I was well behind in techs and fought against AIs that had better units. I'm used to having both technological advantage and superior number of units while I go to war so this was something new. I also learned that cats perform nicely even in the later stages of the game in vanilla. :)

Thanks for the scenario, jesusin!
 
I probably should have taken the easier start given that I only just staggered home in last month's Prince game. Ended up retiring in 1842 after a rush of blood to the head.:mad:

I was still floating on the joy of last month's GOTM when this game was announced and studied every word and post in the start thread. So I had several preconceived ideas about what I would find that were all wide of the mark.

I didn't find the Ring until 1000AD and took it in 1500 from the French. Renamed it Nibelungland. The food resources were at least as valuable to me as the gold for the health boost. And gold seemed to be like, well, gold dust for trading - was there no other gold on the map?

I also only discovered that the world didn't end at the mountains to the West in about 1200AD - on my mental map it was marked "Here be Dragons" - and with GK there that wasn't far from the truth.

Started by moving scout to S hill, saw cows (my favourites! :cowboy:) and SIP. Not the best spot, but OK I think - I like my capital to be fairly flexible, although here it was mostly cottaged.

Missed my preffered site for a second city (SW of cap, several resources), so Berlin was W, taking copper and silver. This city suffered from culture problems - I ended up building culture here for most of the game, when it wasn't building culture buildings/wonders. I'm thinking I should build border cities a little closer together for the mutual culture boost, and maybe in a concave shape, so one can't get surrounded by enemy cities.

Third city was N of cap to seal off lands to the W. I eventually settled all that land, but at the cost of no Open Borders. I think that's the right strategy, but I took too long about it. Watching the replay, I see that I was last to found my second city and much slower at expanding than the AIs. This is something I really need to work on in future games.

After taking the Ring, I was well behind on tech, not good as I had been thinking of going for a space win. A few good tech choices and trades got me to the middle of the pack, but I was still losing ground to GK and Cyrus. It felt like I had to make a move and built an army. I saw Cyrus get railroad, which would soon make it much harder to attack him as his reinforcements could be quickly deployed. Thinking it's now or never, I attacked one of the cities hurting Berlin with culture. Total failure, as he was much stronger than I could handle. He took Berlin and marched on my capital. It felt like my only chance had gone, and I thought getting crushed would be neither fun nor a good learning exercise, so I resigned.

[After resigning and submitting, I went back to a slightly earlier save, and tried going all out for space without attacking. Not finished, but it looks like GK will easily win space. Maybe I wasn't so crazy to try attacking. So if you are behind on tech, land and cities, there's no room to expand, tech trades have dried up, what do you do?:confused:]

On the plus side, I had my best attempt at specialization, with a GP farm and a unit factory (but too many production cities compared to commerce).

This was only my sixth game ever, and my first defeat - I found CivFanatics during my second game , and it has been a huge help keeping me ahead of the increasing difficulty levels. And I still have tons to learn, which I love. Can hardly wait for next month's game!

Thanks to jesusin and the GOTM team for another great game. At least I got the Ring!:cool:
 
Following on from my first post.... short version was, I had 2 cities at 50BC....

So I was up to 3 cities soon after and my army was almost ready - catapults and an assortment of melee units. I had decided the land to the west was not good enough to support my empire & I needed at least 2 cities from Persia. They were in such good places, with lots of resources, and one of them had the Pyramids.

The Persian War started around 300AD when the Chinese asked for my help in the war. I took one city, defended it against counter-attacks for a while then marched on and took the second. My options then were to attack junk cities, take peace or push on to their capital-on-a-hill whilst they had elephants & I only had a couple of spearmen. So I went for peace, also feeling that without these two cities, the Persians would only be a minor world power as they did not have many decent city sites now & had some junk cities to maintain. I was proved right with this theory thankfully :) I concentrated culture in those two cities (even getting Hanging Gardens in one of them) so they gradually became better & more useful as the game went on & more tiles came under my control.

I then settled two nice-ish cities out to the west & one juky tundra city (with deer & iron though) to take my total to 8 cities. The Indians had one great and two awful cities out there too, and the Mongols had one on the coast too. Our half of the map (Indians, Persians & I) turned into a Hindu love-fest which was nice.

Then I discovered the Ring, which led to.... The First French War

I had catapults and maces around 1100 AD, no matter as the tech pace was generally fairly slow (Indians took lib in 1500AD?!). I took the ring from them and got Oxford Uni on there (did I mention the tech pace was slow?), this & my Buerocracy capital got 300+ beakers between them for most of the game which were really crucial. I then pushed on and took one city from their mainland. I quickly came to realise that my chance of pushing onwards were slim so I took peace so I could tech up some more, build my economy and grow my ring city, and at least I had one city in their lands now. The French were one of only two non-Hindus (the other being Khan) so he was really ag reat target for me & I didn't think I could win with just my initial cities. SO I built up for a bit, and then I was ready for....

The Second French War, circa 1830AD - 1901AD

I got to Cavalry and sent 15 of them to my French beachhead. I took one city however then their counter-attack killed about half of my cavalry & severely injured the rest, so they ran back to my beachhead city and waited for reinforcements. They eventually came (in Galleons) in the form of around 15 more cavalry, some cannons & riflemen. It was a long & bloody war but eventually the French were eliminated. I lost two of my new cities to Greek culture but I didn’t mind that.

Elsewhere in this age, The Mongols & I ended up at war twice, the first time the Greeks asked me to join them, and the second time I asked the Greeks to join me (which they did for a really small bribe of around 1000 beakers). I took their city in my homeland and also one island city. The second war went really badly for the Greeks and they had around 6 cities captured or razed by the Mongols. This left a gap which was filled by barbarians, fresh cities from the two and even one crazy city then Indians settled, having sent their settler the entire length of the map. This war set them both back technologically which was great.

My economy was getting screwed by the 13 war unhappiness so I was very happy when the war was over and I could put my culture slider back to 0%. Thoughts turned now to how I could win. No chance of culture, Domination, conquest & space were all not possible due to the Indians having better land, about 8 techs on me (I was second in techs by this point) and a power rating that was around FOUR TIMES my decent-sized army.... so this left Diplomatic as the only option. The Persians would vote for the Indians but the Greek would vote for me (around +17 diplo score :D) so that just left the Mongols, who hated everyone & whom no-one liked as the whole world was Hindus apart from them. If I could somehow persuade the Mongolian people to vote for me, that might be enough... and the only was to persuade them was by military power.

I reached assembly line just as the 2nd French War ended, so I spend some time building up factories, making my cities bigger thanks to no war weariness & biology & SP (actually the first time I’ve ever gone State Property…. I’ll definitely be doing that again especially since it’s better in BTS), then got 30 infantry together. A few turns after I reached industrialism the first few tanks were online, so it was time for...

The Mongol War, approx 1947-1978

The Indians had already been at war with the Mongols, but due to AI not coping well with same-landmass wars with impenetrable peaks, they hadn't taken any cities. They had destroyed a lot of improvements with fighters & bombarded cities though, which was nice of them :) I marched in to the first city however I then lost about half of my troops to waves of Cavalry. Basically I was too cocky & didn't upgrade many of my infantry with city garrisons...

Never mind, hordes of tanks soon landed. The first 3 cities took a while but then all the rest fell rather quickly (well, they never got as far as Infantry themselves...). I built the UN (in about 7 turns I think?! Industrial + Ironworks + Factory = very fast wonders) and was duly elected secretary general. The first vote happened before the Greeks were wiped out. Everyone voted as expected & I could see that my votes + Greeks + soon-to-be-my-Mongols put me 2 or 3 votes short of victory. So I concentrated on city growth & planted a few tundra cities & grew them too. The next vote came up just after I had wiped out the Mongols and...well you can see the result here :)

gotm65.jpg


Here's the power graph for the last 150 turns, so you can see how insanely big the Indian army was.

gotm65power.jpg


1980AD diplomatic win. Very pleased after my awful start to turn this around :)
 
Great game WelshGandalf - you certainly showed me that it's possible to recover from a really bad start! :goodjob:

One point of interest to me is your French beachhead city. I also took the ring from the French and (having overestimated the size of army I would need, so I found them something to do) one coastal city. My main reason for taking this city was to prevent it eventually reactivating the dormant French culture close to the ring (which was probably quite significant) when it later popped its border. So my plan was to raze it, as I thought it would be very difficult to hold, under attack from both culture and war.

I can see that it might have been very useful to have a beachhead, as the French were one civ I might have been able to beat-up later on. How hard (and costly) was it to hold your beachhead, and did it provide a worthwhile advantage in the later war?
 
Thanks for the compliment! At 1AD I had an army so I at least wanted to try to use it & see how it worked out.

The beachead did help yes, as I had only galleys until some time after cavalry so I got to (slowly) transfer lots of troops there ready for the attack (cats, & HA's to upgrade to cavs). This was much easier than a full-scale amphibious attack.

Keeping it from war was not a problem as I signed a peace treaty soon after landing, plus I had about 20 troops there - slightly outdated ones but enough to hold it for a few turns until I decided to take peace. Keeping it from culture was fairly easy too - there were only two other cities that could pressurise it, one was 4 spaces away and the other was 4 or 5 (and not very well developed). A few culture buildings & it was easy enough to hold; I only had 3 land tiles but all the water tiles kept the city fed. With trades routes & the water tiles it was probably pulling in some 20 commerce a turn so it wasn't an economic pain.

(having overestimated the size of army I would need, so I found them something to do) one coastal city.
Haha yes I was in exactly the same position of wanting to do something else with all the troops I had. Also they had a forest on the beach right outside their city so it was ideal to dump a load of troops there & attack the city. I'm surprised they didn't get more reinforcements there tbh.

ON a side note, is it even possible to take a city by culture across water - isn't there a limit to how far over the water a city's cultural radius can spread?
 
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Had I retained the beachhead it might have saved my game.

ON a side note, is it even possible to take a city by culture across water - isn't there a limit to how far over the water a city's cultural radius can spread?

I think culture spreads normally across coast, and this map had extra coast tiles along the Rhine, where there would usually be ocean. Straight after capturing the ring, the French culture was close by and I saw it as an immediate threat. I wasn't so much worried about losing the city as losing control of tiles. IIRC the next pop would have cost me the food tile on the south of the island.

But I could be completely wrong about the culture-over-water situation.
 
After Persia was eliminated, I ganged up on China with India. Well, actually, India left me holding the bag all by myself.

Before I could make much progress, the French had landed a Settler near the western area where I'd just finished clearing out some Barb Cities. So, it was war on France, too. It was only then that I found the River Rhine's Gold, which France owned. How convenient it was that we were already at war with each other. ^.^


Anyway, I took down China, razed the French City near the Gold and built 2 Cities on that island. Maybe it wasn't an ideal approach (I could have kept a Size 4 City) but my Happiness and Healthiness caps were still low, so I felt that 2 Cities working some Gold Resources would get up to speed faster than a single City would, even one that started with some population points.


I let China with one City but later I bribed India to finish them... then cut into India while India's stacks were split.


Once India was taken, it was time to shuttle troops across the water to Paris, which I did from both the north (from near the Rhine's Gold Island) and from the east (shuttling troops that had destroyed India).

After taking down most of France, I went for India's two island Cities and finished them off, too.


Meanwhile, I was set up nicely for Domination, as I had a good portion of the world's land. However, I have been trying off and on to get a Space Victory and this map seemed to be pretty good--the Persian Cities were solid for production and I'd gotten off to a great start.

I also also reasonably set up for Diplo, too, since the two remaining AIs (the Mongols and the Greeks) were Friendly with me, but that fact just meant that I felt safe putting aside the war machine while I teched to the stars.


I fed the AIs some techs but I only got a couple of random late-game trades, such as Flight a couple of turns before the end of the game. I was pretty much teching the mid-to-late-game tech tree by myself.


I managed to complete the Engine in 4 turns, 1 turn behind most of my other Spaceship parts.


I had fun building the late-game World Wonders unopposed, including the 3 "Hits" Wonders, The Three Gorge's Dam, and even The Space Elevator (since it's a useful Wonder in Vanilla as you need Robotics for a Spaceship Victory, unlike in BtS).


To me, the greatest challenges of this map were:
1. The Barbs
2. Taking down the Persians
3. Finding that elusive Gold when I was too busy fighting Barbs and AIs to think about the idea of building a boat
4. The French hogging too many of the Wonders on "the other side" of the mountains


I goofed up my Golden Ages, in that I was short a few turns' worth of turns in order to get my final 2 Great People, so I just said "forget them" and got one a bit earlier in my Great Person Farm, just giving me the "2 Great People" Golden Age. I ended the game with several turns' worth of Golden Age remaining, so I guess that either my Great People usage is terrible or else I just won the game too soon! ;)


My Final Score was reported by the Submission system as being lower than I remembered, so I guess that I must have taken the Challenger saved game.


I bet not many civs can say they built a spaceship while still having slavery! ;)
I tried to stick with Slavery until the end but the Emancipation Unhappiness from two AIs was sufficiently high to force me into switching to Emancipation at the cost of 2 turns of Anarchy, without getting any other Civic-swaps in the bargain.


I eventually settled all that land, but at the cost of no Open Borders.
Not having Open Borders with ANY AI will hurt you. Some things to consider:
If an AI has most of its Cities on one side of your empire and builds a couple of Cities on the far side of your empire, you can always fight a war later where you defend your Cities on his main border while taking out the isolated Cities that were settled on the other side of your empire.

Get a Trade Route connection (using Sailing or Roads), even through one AI that you do not have Open Borders with, to another AI. The farther-away AI is less likely to send Settler Parties through your lands but will still provide you with the lucrative Foreign Trade Routes. Those Foreign Trade Routes are "free" Commerce, so you really want to be getting it! Note that they're not completely free, in that the AI will also get some, but if the AIs have Open Borders with each other anyway, then by Opening Borders with such an AI, you won't really be giving that AI anything new, as they'll already have Foreign Trade Routes. Don't get left out of the game--you want to be reaping the same benefits that the AIs likely already have!



Oh yeah, one more thing: Asoka had a non-Fast-Worker. I just confirmed that if I am the Indian Civ in Vanilla and capture another Civ's regular Worker, it turns into a Fast Worker. Similarly, if I declare war on India and they capture my Worker, it turns into a Fast Worker. Jesusin, did you perchance move the Indian Civ? ;)
 
Oh yeah, one more thing: Asoka had a non-Fast-Worker. I just confirmed that if I am the Indian Civ in Vanilla and capture another Civ's regular Worker, it turns into a Fast Worker. Similarly, if I declare war on India and they capture my Worker, it turns into a Fast Worker. Jesusin, did you perchance move the Indian Civ? ;)

Rats! My secrets as a map-maker have been unveiled! :lol:

Sorry about that mistake. :blush:
 
Thanks for the insights Dhoomstriker. I knew it was costing me, but at the time I thought it was worth it. I now also see that had someone settled west of me it would have helped with those pesky barbs!

Get a Trade Route connection (using Sailing or Roads), even through one AI that you do not have Open Borders with, to another AI.

I was mistakenly assuming that only the distant AI would benefit (and then only if he had OB with the middle civ). I now see I can trade through someone I don't have OB with, as long as we are not at war.
 
Conquest 1950

Wow, that was quite a challenge, and the writeups have been fascinating. Jesusin, you should be feeling very smug. :goodjob: When I wrote my 1AD report I had just discovered the Ring, occupied by Nappy (though I didn't tell about that, of course). I was torn between taking it or going after Persia, but I couldn't resist all that gold. I took it with some cats and then ferried over longbows to defend the hills as fast as I could, fearing retribution. As it turned out, nobody ever touched that soil again, but it was awhile before I had enough spare units to go after Persia. I took 2 cities pretty quickly but ran out of steam and took peace until I could try again. During that break, Cyrus went after QSH and was kicking him around pretty good. After 10 or so turns I attacked again and Persia fell without too much trouble. I left QSH as a buffer against Asoka, who was getting pretty big and advanced (with several wonders, including Pyramids). When I was ready (I don't recall what units I was using--maybe grens and cannon?) I attacked Asoka, taking a few cities and then peace. During the break I polished off QSH's two remaining cities, then cleaned up Asoka.

My plan was to ferry a large force around the mountains and start on Nappy, but Khan DoWed me instead. I could not let this insult pass, and shifted all my forces back up and around. Khan meanwhile landed a few units on my coast near the western mountains but I killed them easily. I don't recall if/when he would have talked for peace, but I should have tried that and continued with my French invasion plans. Heck, I probably could have just stayed in a phony war with Khan since it was hard for him to get to me and WW wouldn't be a problem.

Instead... I took his easternmost coastal city. And promptly lost it. I assembled another force and took it, then really reinforced it. And lost it again. Then one more round for old time's sake. :rolleyes: I think we'd both lost close to 100 units by this time. Even with a jail and running Police State (which I kept the rest of the game) I had 14 WW in Berlin, so that would have been around 56 raw WW :eek:. I accepted peace and went in search of a softer target. (I later got Fascism and built Mt Rushmore, which really helped.)

Meanwhile, Alex, who I'd been trying to cultivate as a buddy to go after Khan, turns on me and DoWs me after my most recent DoW on Khan. After my peace with Khan I turned my attention to he who had betrayed my friendship. He fell without too much trouble to Infantry and Artillery, and then I moved on (finally) to Nappy. I had to raze a couple of the Greek and French cities to avoid going over the Dom limit--I really wanted to erase Khan from the face of the Earth! By this time I had marines and tanks (and soon bombers) and figured out how to use them. Instead of giving Khan a chance to recapture his cities and slaughter my defenders, I reduced his coastal cultural defences using ships, softened things up with a few sacrificial artillery, and then used marines (amphibious!) to clean up. I wouldn't go all the way, though, so he had nothing to strike at. Then he'd pour more units into the city and I'd repeat until I was sure I could take and hold the city.

For inland cities I used bombers---lots of bombers---and then captured them using tanks and gunships. I even resorted to two nukes to move things along. In the end, it only took 12 turns from declaration of war to victory. And it was very sweet.

Other details: I took Nationalism from Liberalism (beating Asoka by not a lot) and chopped out the Taj using the forests around a crappy little pop-2 city to the north of Berlin that was settled by Cyrus to get the silver on the northern edge of the map. Iron Works went in Persepolis, Oxford in the Ring City, Wall Street way out east in Susa (along with Globe), Heroic Epic in Berlin. Oh, and because I'd razed parts of France and Greece, I was getting barb cities popping up in the 1900's! I eventually used workers to fogbust the wilderness.

So, why was this game such a bear? The land wasn't that bad, was it? Hmm, maybe it was. Dividing our attention between the Ring and the Persians was a neat trick. There were 4 civs on "our" side of the mountains, but only 3 on the other, so the others (especially Khan) got to grow more. Land movement around the water slowed things down a bit, at least until railroads. And the mountains made initial attacks [edit: on the other side] harder to sustain because of the difficulty of reinforcing (or retreating). Still, I have trouble understanding how a "mere" Monarch game could be so tough. Other thoughts?

Congrats to all, especially Asterix! And probably Dhoom, who as usual didn't bother to mention a date. ;)
 
I had a shocker!

Moved 1s with the settler, saw cows and though 'what the hell, this will do'. After settling I see rice & silver just outside the BFC. Yay!

Attempted to axe rush Cyrus, and got the stone city, but his cap, on a hill, had 5 archers in it by the time my axes arrived. So I abandoned that attempt. My 4 axes did take shanghai and another useless chinese city.

Barb hordes poured out of the area to the west, certainly made things interesting.

Found and settled the ring, very, very nice.

Missed Oracle sling, in fact I only managed to build 2 wonders the whole game, which is a real waste of the industriuous trait, but I kept getting beaten to them.

Used 15 GA bombs to finish in 1848 IIRC. 7, 5, & 3.
 
At 1 AD I had just settled the ring with my 7th city. I had taken 2 of Cyrus' cities and was guarding his strategic resources with axes, I did not have IW yet but a 5 mined tundra hill without copper... :mischief:

I then slowly took Cyrus, QSH and Asoka with axes, cats, maces and knights. I then moved around the mountains with 2 galleys :eek: and moved my forces through France and started on Alex, taking all but one city, made a cease fire because of ww and because Nappy was closing in on one of my Greek cities with a large stack. I put in a lot of reinforcement and then next turn Nappy DOWed me and suicide a lot of troops on my grenadiers and knights. :crazyeye:

The rest is history, I took all the French cities and the last Greek, waited for borders to pop while founding a few more cities.

I did research cavalry, and I think one of them actually made it into battle! :lol:

One odd incident: Nappy had a settler and an archer sitting on one of the small islands for many turns and on the turn I take his last city on the continent he settles a new city... :confused: :mad:
This caused some ww as I had declared on Alex the same turn anticipating that France was history.....
(Actually Alex also had a settler sitting on an island but he never settled it. :) )

Capital with ww:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


Question: What happens when your pop goes on strike?
 
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