GOTM 68 Spoiler

LordValuna said:
You were most fortunate, each AI has a destroyer on hand at the start. The transports wouldn't last long if they encountered one along the way :crazyeye:
Cheers to your good fortune :beer:
starlifter said:
are veteran destroyers! They began anhilating each other,
Yep I was wrong, not good fortune, but silly computer.
I thought the compter AI was silly enough that it didnt expand or make cities bigger than 8, but this takes the cake :hammer2:
 
Peaster said:
How did you discover these things ? :confused:
After completion, I used the cheat menu to see the bountiful AI armies & navies at start.
Starlifter replayed the game (see post 60) and watched the action.
I remember seeing the destroyers wandering by my coast. It scared me so I increased the requirements for my two convoys/task forces. Big mistake :nuke:
 
I began gotm 68 monday and I'm now in Sept 2026 with 11 cities. In this turn I bribed Paris and destroyed Europeans.
 
by LordValuna:
Ok I'll bite,
OK, I will too :crazyeye: ... simply because my first thought was that the AI built another city & moved the capital, thus making Paris bribeable if not in Democracy. But it seems unlikely due to the early game year...

by Peaster:
How did you discover these things ?
You can go back and replay from the game start, and watch/examine. Although this game has very little early random variation (no huts, set pieces), there are little perturbations in how events are played out. It actually has entertainment value to watch this game, due to the initial naval action! The human city has no 'action' in the first game turns as the naval drama unfolds; but if you keep your rifleman, it will sometimes sink a trolling enemy destroyer, which is pretty funny. :lol:
 
starlifter said:
You can go back and replay from the game start, and watch/examine.
:eek: You can do this during your game? Not sure I understand.

So, is it legal to play only one turn, then go back and replay an entire game ? I'd guess not (in most GOTMs anyway) since that would reveal the map. Also, don't you need cheat mode to discover that the destroyers are vets? :confused:
 
I just played till Aug 2029. I was a democracy till July 2029 and just switched to Fudamentalism. This same turn I found Moscow and established an embassy with them. Now I have embassies with every one but Indians and I know where Karakorum is thanks to my helicopter.

Russians have established 2 cites. All the other rivals have only one although I cannot be sure about Indians since I visited them qutie some time ago.

I have expanded quite a bit although in the past couple of years the emphasis was more on growth through celebration than on building new cities. I have fully covered the southwest island, all the little islands in the south, the little island to the west, and northern europe. I recently established one city on the eastern part of china and another one on the island just south of it.

My invasion force just unloaded in southern europe heading towards Paris. I have a spy, 2 vet tanks, 2 vet howitzers, 1 regular howitzer, and a vet helicopter.
 
by Peaster:
So, is it legal to play only one turn, then go back and replay an entire game ?
No :rolleyes: , the time in my game is June 2029 (Game Turn 114). The AI has been "defeated" since 2025: it has no units left (1 AI civ, with 1 size 1 AI city making 1 gold & 1 science per turn: purple game map viewed in Karakorum, see Spoiler pic), and can never likely make another. I went back and let the 1st two-three years run (e.g., founded my city & kept hitting enter) to see what went on in that time frame.

... replay an entire game ...
My GOTM game is not replayed, much less the entire game; the game is done far past 2022, my log posted, and no advantage that I can see can be gained by looking at & discussing what the start conditions were at this point. Hypothetically, a person can gain the same thing (knowing the game start conditions) by simply reading a spoiler thread post which tells about it, LOL. :) Its now strictly a matter of killing the purple by walking into their empty city at leisure to end the game.

Screenshot of the Karakorum city, which I spy on each turn. There are more notes on the graphic, about some things (unrelated to your question about game replay) I will post about when I have time to write after the game is done. Some may not realize that you can look at the city details in the enemy status screen, for example.
Spoiler :


:cool:
 
@starlifter: I'm not saying you got any unfair advantage in this game. Eg replaying a few early turns (without cheat mode) after you have essentially finished off the AI is not going to give you much useful info. But this should not be allowed in the early stages of a game. So, where do we draw the line ?
 
LordValuna said:
Ok I'll bite, How did you bribe Paris? Isnt it a capital? (you cant bribe capitals) :scan:

Oh I just captured Paris. I didn't bribe it.
 
Eg replaying a few early turns
I'm not sure if it is a language thing, but to be quite clear... I did not replay the GOTM game. I played my game through to mid-2029. Then after reading someone's post, I started a new game of 2020, founded a city, fortified the rifleman, and watched what happened, like a movie replay, by repeatedly hitting Enter and seeing how the scenario ran for the years 2020~2022. I did not replay my GOTM game itself, nor did watching the long-dead AI have an effect on any phase of it. :nuke:

But this should not be allowed in the early stages of a game. So, where do we draw the line ?
Gaining knowledge of how a game (particularly a scenario) will unfold & then playing it should not. About drawing a line, I do see your point Peaster. Out of the general principle, in perhaps it could have been better to simply wait until after I killed the purple to even look (or read about?) the scenario start.

However, the same principle & question extends to a player being in a spoiler thread at all... before the game is done. :eek: Its even less control there, as future events (in some games) could be read (e.g., you don't know where the line is until you've read what was posted), even if one did not want to hear about it. The general guideline of the past is to be well established in the game, then get into the spoiler thread and post about the progress. Each player decides line. In this particular GOTM (nothing remaining except mundane building), it was interesting to figuring out what might have been going on ~100 turns before. The start was clearly no longer was relevant to completing my game.

Continuing on the question of where is the line, in past GOTMs, we used to post maps, detailed discussions, etc. of progress. Today, there is the "spoiler" button (a new great feature), which can hide graphical detail from those that don't accidently want to see it. But the same issue... when is it OK? Should a player still working on a game be in a Spoiler thread? Why do we really play GOTMs? Its really up to the player, since discussion and learning and dissemination are part of the GOTM. I plainly post what I learn so that others may then learn & possibly improve their general gameplay, and that's my philosophy.

:)


PS, Old-time players will probably already know this, but... I don't have a problem with others seeing and using my logs and strategy as a benchmark. If it helps people become better players, then I'm quite happy. To be fair, in the past, not all players in GOTMs of the past felt that way -- and in fact, some refused to post or talk about their games. And others would say very little. And that's OK too. But 5 years later, I see that players are still posting good/helpful/entertaining info -- many even with logs! :cool:
 
:) Yes, I understand. I agree that you got no useful info, and anybody could get more from the spoiler. Just seems that we've uncovered a vague spot in the rules. Maybe DoM can clarify what players are allowed do with the starting save in future GOTMs.
 
+2028/01 Domestic offshore Silver for 77.
+2028/02 Domestic offshore Coal, Gold, Silk for 77, 94, 176.
+2028/03 Vienna founded.
+2028/04 Gheshm and Turin founded. Domestic offshore Copper for 31.
+2028/05 Gold to European Paris for 96.
+2028/06 Samarra founded.
+2028/09 First pollution. T5L5S0.
+2028/11 Magellan built. Domestic offshore Dye for 152.
+2028/12 First airport built.
+2029/01 Hamburg and SouthPole1 founded. First offensive naval unit, an AEGIS, produced.
+2029/02 AbuMusa founded.
+2029/03 London discovered and English embassy established. They also have 1 city with Airport but no supermarket. They have a None paratrooper, howitzer, tank, 2 fighters, and a bomber. Xotan founded on the eastern end of China.
+2029/04 Berlin, Abskun, and Nippur founded.
+2029/05 European tank shows up near my cities in northern Europe. Domestic Coal for 65.
+2029/06 Shuruppak founded.
+2029/07 Revolution started. T4L6S0
+2029/08 Fundamentalism established. T2L8S0 Moscow discovered and Russian embassy established. They have 2 cities!
+2029/09 Russians sneak attack and sink my transport with spy aboard. Thankfully it was done with its mission and was heading back. Widespread celebrations T5L5S0. Asked Europeans for a tribute and they declared war. My forces are conveniently nearby! 3 Howitzers kill the 3 defenders of Paris easily. Helicopter takes the city over for 165g (they had 297g, where did the rest go?) and Airport! European civilization destroyed. Domestic offshore Spice for 168.
+2029/11 Domestic offshore Gold for 220.
+2029/12 Domestic offshore Silver for 90.

Status at +2029/12
Population: 21.46M; Cities: 43; Trade routes: 28D0F; Government: Fundamentalism
Cost per turn: 179; Total advances: 83; Production: 360MT; 1 polluted tiles
Wonders: Pyramids, Michelangelo, Bach, Magellan.
Units: 32 Engineers, 1 Fanatic, 1 None Riflemen, 1 Paratrooper, 4 Mech. Infantry, 3 Armor, 3 Howitzer, 2 Helicopter, 1 AEGIS, 3 Transport, 3 Spy, 10 Freight.
Russian: 2 cities, 83 techs; war with me
European: Destroyed by me
Bolivarian: 1 city, 83 techs;
Chinese: 1 city, 84 techs;
English: 1 city, 83 techs;
Indian: No embassy
 
Peaster said:
:) Yes, I understand. I agree that you got no useful info, and anybody could get more from the spoiler. Just seems that we've uncovered a vague spot in the rules. Maybe DoM can clarify what players are allowed do with the starting save in future GOTMs.

No player should 'redo' a game unless they have already made their submission for that game. Then, they should be careful to not provide any 'special' information to other players until after that games deadline has passed. That includes screenshots, detailed locations of Civs, etc.
 
I won by conquest in Dec 2030 with about 50 cities. I did a mistake when I attacked Moscow the first time.
 
starlifter said:
How true! A single howitzer could have been used to defeat at least 3 civs, even in mid-2025. By making just 1 (or 2), late 2024 conquest could be cake. Could anyone... with perfect play... do it by July 2024? That might be tough.

I've finished in may 2024.
I replayed it tonight. I grew asap to 4 cities. Then building 2 ships and 2 howies. One went east and one went west. Then again building 2 ships and 2 howies. Ship 3 went east and ship 4 went west.

My first attempt went great till a got to the yellow civ. They were the only one I couldn't defeat with one howie. Otherwise I could have win end 2023??? In my seccond attempt I build one destroyer which went to the yellow civ and helped me to get them down. Lost one ship near Parish (just dumped my howie on land on 10 tiles distance to Parish (lucky me).

So it can be done with one howie but it is very risky. So better build 2 howies and a little bit more turns with a certain victory.
 
Otherwise I could have win end 2023???
Most impressive! You're an efficient conqueror; was any city defended by more than 1 unit that early? I figure the counterattack would be the worry, but your naval option seems to have solved that part. Part of the reason for my using several howies was an attack by especially a multi-move unit. Did you make peace, then break it next turn to get 2 shots? Or go just ashore and blast away?

I really liked this GOTM. It is such a change, and rarely (if ever) do I recall a GOTM that can actually be done well & simultaneously both as early conquer and as Bob the Builder. :)

Later when I get time, I want to try a super fast conquer, too. I also want to try an HRush, though I have not built a Helo since my very first MGE game in 1999. But with the distances involved for helo transit, I'm not sure how much they will "rot" enroute. In this case, vets might be needed, but airports are too expensive that early. Fortunately, the battle terrain is hospitable, and can be waged from the sea; unlike howitzers, I think some Helos would be lost due to weakening.

I'll post about my game later when I have time to write; I had to quit & sent it in being to June of 2030, having just seeded about 70%, but not properly grown my empire ... so many size raw one & two cities, so much unsettled land... but I just did not have time last week to play the endgame. There were numbered 179 cities and 134 million people when the Axe mercifully fell on the lone undefended citizen of Karakorum -- earning his one gold and one shield and one science beaker. :lol:

For demonstrating trade and rapid exansion in a late-game PD (without having to play the early and mid game to get there), this GOTM is very good. Its also good for showing how to "start" a PD.
 
Thanks for the compliment. The funny part is that I hardly play conquest games at all. All cities had one defender except to yellow civ who had two defenders and one unit outside.

Did you make peace, then break it next turn to get 2 shots? Or go just ashore and blast away?

I made peace and break it the next turn for 2 shots.
 
I had a hard time uploading my game.
I had to replay the last turn , since it show all cities taken but the game was not over " ? ".
Paratroopers took London in 2023....Game over ..right ??

Nope...kept going .. !!

So I replayed the last turn and saved several times.....until my last unit landed in London.
Strange !!
 
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