GOTM 68 Spoiler

I have finished though I have been unable to submit due to Email problems.

It took much longer than I expected. I switched to Fundamentalism in mid 2029. By then I had discovered the locations of all the rivals and had an attack force of 3 howitzers, 2 tanks, and a helicopter ready. Europeans went down quickly followed by Chinese. The distance to Madrid was too much for the helicopter so it stayed around protecting China.

I quickly concluded that one attack force going from one civ to the next will take too long. So I came up with this plan of planting a city on the island just east of my homeland and west of Russia and using it as a staging ground. The plan was for that city to be built the same day Madrid is taken over. Both cities would then rush an airport and I start airlifting my army to the the new city. Once this was done my attack force would go after Russians and the English.

The plan worked fine. I first airlifted a vet tank and fortified it for defense. In the turn after I had airlifted my first howitzer a Russian tank showed up by my new city and attacked it. It managed to kill my vet fortified tank and with it went the city. This set me back quite a few turns as I had to ship a new Engineer and rebuild the city. I decided to send what remained of my attack force in Madrid (2 howitzers and one tank) towards the English after all. Meanwhile I prepared a new attack force for Russians and a separate one for Indians.

It turned out that the second Russian city was at the other end of the island I was trying to use for a staging ground. I managed to capture that city wihtout delaying my overall plan. Next turn Moscow fell rather easily.

My attack force for the English was meager. I lost my AEGIS attacking London. My 2 howitzers and tank killed the 3 defenders of London but then I had no units to walk in and take London and the English had units nearby which could easily kill me in a counter attack. I ended up buying an English howitzer for 1344 (almost my entire treasury) to capture London.

Karakorum was protected by 2 ground units, 2 fighters, and 2 bombers. Fortunately, the turn I attacked both bombers were outside. I had brought a very strong force of vet Stealth bomber, vet Stealth fighter, helicopter, 2 vet tanks, and 2 howitzers.

What I did not expect was that the Indians have not built a road to the coast 2 tiles away! They had roads on the coast tiles but not on the tile between those and Karakorum. This meant that my howitzers were useless. My tanks managed to kill the 2 ground units easily. But I lost both my vet stealth aircraft attacking the Indian fighter planes! The helicopter managed to kill one of them and a bribed Indian Rifleman the other one. Here I was at the gates of an empty Karakorum with no units to take it.

Fortunately the Indians had no units left but their 2 bombers which could only return to Karakorum and not counter attack. My howitzers took care of them the next turn.

I finished in Dec 2031 about 5-6 turns later than planned.

My biggest mistake in this game was when I sent a ship for finding the rivals and on board I had a single spy. I should have put 7 commodity vans on that transport as well. Demanded or not, those deliveries would have brought tremendous amount of cash.
 
GOTM 68 Log 2028-01 through 2030-06 (Starlifter)


Code:
---------------------- Begin 2028 ---------------------------------------------------
[B]DEMOGRAPHICS:[/B]
Pop: 021.3M (Dem)
Tax: 60% (1333g, cost=0479g, 0757g in bank)
Sci: 00% (00b, 0T) (Tree + 015FT; researching FT016, cost about 1930b)
Lux: 40%
Prod: 0474MT (0040T icons, 0 skulls)
Cities: 45 
Wonders: 06 (P,MC,JSB,HD,CfC) 

[B]ENEMY:[/B]
Indian: 1 city

[B]FORCES (Zero are NONEs):[/B]
110 b09 Engineers
002 b00 Mech Infantry
003 b00 Howitzers
013 b00 Stealth Fighters
006 b00 Transports
008 b00 Spies
043 b17 Freight
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

097 2028-01 045D730 FT015, S-FT016 ; No Barbs; Score 0667; 45 cities(killing 3) 05 wonders
                      Demographics: 021M 474Mt 0040poll 36eng(b6) 30freight(b15) 5sf(b4)
                      1st Solar Plant; control pollution with gold 
                      Note: Pollution control=high priority, due to rough current terrain state
                            Very few solar plants planned 
                            Most cities will be limited to 62 shields max & use cheaper Recycling Plant
                      Karakorum grew; production went up to 6 shields; box went from 4 to _25_!!
                      ~5 Trade; poisoning Karakorum water; spies died poisoning & sabotaging.
                      
098      02 045D730 FT016, S-FT017 ; 
                      C05 & C05 sit on specials; these & others won't be transformed for now.
                      Trade blah blah.  (Just trade what is needed each turn)
                      TRADE:  Use continent/island grouping system with trade hubs
                              Meet demand for small cities to help hit near cap.

099      03 047D730 FT017, S-FT018 ; 
                      Two building mistakes, fail to change after IRBs; growth slowed.
                      All but 1 spy now dead; Pet is now size 2, no units, making Alpine.
                      X02 scheduled to die next turn; rehomed its 2 freight to x06 (wonders).
                      Build wonder next turn (maybe Adam Smith).

100      04 049D730 FT018, S-FT019 ; 
                      Killed 1 x-city

101      05 050D730 FT019, S-FT020 ;     ADAM-SMITH (Mr. Smith currently saves 61g/turn)                  
                      Will kill all 3 remaining x-cities next turn!
                      Karakorum Airport destroyed (one spy still alive)
                      Note:  In this game, I do not trade with enemy
			                 Technology and world map dimension are far more valuable

102      06 052D730 FT020, S-FT021 ;  Score 817
                      Killed 3 cities; no more sleaziness....   For now (until endgame)!
                      Note:  A03 (a sleeze) cannot be killed/moved because of Pyramids!
                      Making spies & a few stealth.  No barbs in sight, but expanding.
                      Note:  Stealth secures frontiers from red threat.

103      07 054D730 FT021, S-FT022 ; No Barbs; Score 0853[625] 52cities(killing 0) 06 wonders
                      Demographics: 025M 574Mt 0000poll 73eng(b7) 37freight(b8) 10sf(b0) 
                      Last 2 sabotages cost 1 non-vet spy.  2 vet spies remain.
                      Pet is now Size01, no improvements, no units; taking all but city square.  

104      08 057D730 FT022, S-FT023 ; No Barbs; Score 0899[636]  
                      (estimate 3400 more score in 30 years, GOTM ~1071)
                      Pet is gaining 11 shields/turn on 2-shield output.

105      09 059D730 FT023, S-FT024 ; No Barbs; Score 0948[642] 
                      Pet gained 23 shields on 3-shield output.
                      Wasting "lots" of money, for speed; losing a little growth too.

106      10 062D730 FT024, S-FT025 ; No Barbs; Score 0997[653]  
                      Pet gained 10 shields on 2-shield output.
                      Pet declared revolution.  Lost another spy at Pet.
                      SSC will be at C03 in a few turns.

107      11 062D730 FT025, S-FT026 ; No Barbs; Score 1051[665]  
                      Pet gained 10 shields on 2-shield output; now in Democracy.
                      Pet(size2): SB:19(4s-gained6) T:054g(1g loss8) S:1s F:03(-1f) 
                      Pet has 3 food in box; -1 per day; size 2  

108      12 067D730 FT026, S-FT027 ; No Barbs; Score 1104[676]  
                      Pet gained 10 shields on 2-shield output.
                      Pet(size2): SB:00(2s-gained10) T:050g(1g loss4) S:1s F:02(-1f)  
                      Uranium @ H02 (2nd of game!).
                      Gearing up for science soon.  Empire net tax exceeds 2500.   



---------------------- Begin 2029 ---------------------------------------------------
[B]DEMOGRAPHICS:[/B]
Pop: 038.3M (Dem)
Tax: 40% (0607g, cost=4007g, 0607g in bank)
Sci: 30% (00b, 0T) (Tree + 027FT; researching FT028, cost about 2200b)
Lux: 30%
Prod: 0753MT (0T icons, 0 skulls)
Cities: 71 
Wonders: 06 (P,MC,JSB,AST,HD,CfC) 

[B]ENEMY:[/B]
Indian: 1 city  [Pet(size1): SB:09(1s-gained3) T:020g(1g loss1) S:0s F:11(+1f) ]

[B]FORCES (Zero are NONEs):[/B]
144 b21 Engineers
002 b00 Mech Infantry
003 b00 Howitzers
018 b00 Stealth Fighters
027 b01 Transports
008 b00 Spies
113 b41 Freight
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

109 2029-01 071D730 FT027, S-FT028 ; Barb Fanatics@P32 (near old Moscow); Score 1183[694]  
                      Demographics: 038M 789Mt 0020poll 114eng(b8) 50freight(b12) 13sf(b0) 
                      Pet(size2): SB:06(1s-gained6) T:046g(1g loss8) S:0s F:01(-1f)  
                      One Stealth killed all 4 barb Fanatics.
                      About 4 turns to science.

110      02 071D730 FT026, S-FT029 ; No Barbs; Score 1253[708]   
                      Pet(size2): SB:06(1s-gained6) T:043g(1g loss3) S:0s F:00(-1f)  

111      03 071D730 FT027, S-FT030 ; No Barbs; Score 1331[724]   
                      Pet(size1): SB:12(1s-gained6) T:040g(1g loss3) S:0s F:01(+1f) 
                      Delay tree-cutting in C01 until upcoming IPRBs are done.   

112      04 071D730 FT028, S-FT031 ; No Barbs; Score 1412[740]   
                      Pet(size1): SB:18(1s-gained6) T:037g(1g loss3) S:0s F:02(+1f)   
                      Decided to IPRB Magellans (cost: 1000g), for transports.
                      IPRB (!!) ISAAC NEWTON's COLLEGE in C03 (SSC)
                      Delivered 2 freight, bought 2 wonders AND made a ~200g PROFIT!
                      *** SCIENCE SITUATION ***
                      Buy SETI in C01 (1596g) [science is ~2200/advance]
                      @70%T, ~4100g per turn
                      Push science up to 40%s; 30%t; 30%l.
                      Adv costs 2196
                      40% sci costs ~3000g & gives 1869s; early SETI+SSC>2196. 

113      05 074D334 FT031, FT032, FT033, FT034, S-FT035 ; No Barbs; Score 1599[780]
                      New Wonders:  DARWINS VOYAGE, SETI, ISAAC NEWTON, MAGELLANS VOYAGE 
                      Pet(size1): SB:23(1s-gained5) T:034g(1g loss3) S:0s F:03(+1f) 
                      Pet changed production from Alpine to MecInf; Sabotaged to 0-shields  
                      Advances now cost ~2300s; **adjust science to exceed that, slightly.**
                      Now netting ~1800t, for a loss of about 2300g
                      Sci gain ~ tax loss (e.g., a "good deal")!
                      Founded 9 cities.  New record.
                      Need to set up reciprical RR for SSC & C04.

114      06 000D334 FT031, FT032, FT033, FT034, S-FT035 ; No Barbs; Score 1709[800]    
                      Pet(size1): SB:5(1s-gained5) T:031g(1g loss3) S:0s F:04(+1food) 
                      Advances now cost just over 2300s; adjust science to exceed that, slightly.
                      Make Stealth for expansion.
                      Demographics: 058M 987Mt 0000poll 125eng(b9) 51freight(b20) 13sf(b0) 
 
115      07 092D334 FT037, FT038, S-FT039  62M 1803-815
                      Pet(size1): SB:09(5s-gained5) T:029g(1g loss2) S:0s F:04(+1f) 
                      H04 supplies Uranium(size 12 no sewer)
                      Demographics: 062M 1069Mt 0000poll 127eng(b7) 63freight(b34) 13sf(b0) 
                      Misbalanced H continent (Engs short)
                      Some Lib & imp while waiting on Engs to build cities.
                      Make Stealth for expansion.
                      ==================================================================
                      Due to real time constraint, speed up turns (Speed TUrn):
                      - less planning
                      - accept lower trade
                      - less matching
                      - IRB by 2 (10g loss) & 3 lines
                      - city location master plan less important
                      - science plan for 3 - 6 advances per turn nixed
                      - full colonization abandoned
                      - Accept huge waste in monthly science producition (overproduce)
                      - minimal continental balancing
                      - minimal chain expansion
                      - Trade/demand rarely considered (match continents not cities)
                      ==================================================================
                      -- "SPEED TURN" ---

116      08 102D334 FT039, FT040, S-FT041  65M 1109Mt 1900-829  [[905w]]
                      Pet(size1): SB:09(5s-gained5) T:029g(1g loss2) S:0s F:04(+1f) 
                      H04 Builds Uranium(size 12 no sewer) (to Q10 4 now)
                      Forgot to Repo D14 for 3 NoCap trade.
                      Forgot to Waken & build cities south of N04 (engs still slept!)
                      B03 screwed ENg - no rehome eng
                      Building H continent RR; must jump hill so go fast; city later
                      Irrigate A07 hills
                      Some engie on H went berserk; shorten GOTO commands now.
                      Make Stealth for expansion.
                      Accumulate food freight for eventual wonders later (50s+ producers).
                      Change of plan, out of time: Build out of original city pattern.
                      Will be nowhere near fully grown at end.
                      Missed B10 for 3 turns; no food imps.
                      At any given moment, 35-40 engs in construction.
                      Double line IRBs now common to save time for 10g.
                      -- SPEED TURN ---

117      09 113D334 FT041, FT000, S-FT000  067M 1175Mt 1993-843  
                      Pet(size1): SB:17(1s-gained5) T:017g(1g loss0) S:0s F:07(+1f) 
                      Soon begin instant 3s cities.
                      H04(as12)-Q10(as5) Uranium 1608 (Cap)
                      Missed Q0's ... grow delays.  And P42.
                      *Oil* Dmd at N01!  1608 cap of course.  Such a waste.
                      Pump C11, B00 to size 3.
                      Helping Cont D with Continent C engineers (D01...)
                      D11 1st city founded in a Desert.  Will pump.
                      H07 ship out of place by one; delay.
                      Founded G00 on wrong spot.
                      Pollution Triangle in C01, rush build MT.
                      -- SPEED TURN ---

118      10 124D334 FT043, FT044, S-FT045  000M 1219Mt 2111-858  
                      Pet(size1): SB:0(1s-gained5) T:023g(1g loss0) S:0s F:08(+1f) 
                      Sabotage Karakorum; shields 0 now, vet spy lived.
                      Built Temple not Harbor in D01; haste!
                      -- SPEED TURN ---
  
119      11 141D334 FT045, FT046, S-FT057  075M 0000Mt 2238-878  (Poll by A0c!)
                      *** LOOK AT PET as It changes gold for shields ***
                      Pet(size1): SB:03(1s-gained2) T:022g(1g loss1) S:0s F:00(+1f) 
                      -- SPEED TURN ---
  
120      12 145D334 FT047, FT048, S-FT059  079M 0000Mt 2388-900  (105frt/145eng)
                      Pet(size1): SB:06(1s-gained2) T:021g(1g loss1) S:0s F:10(+1f)
                      Stranded 2 end at G20 in boat (forgot them) 
                      Lots of "Arab Oil" ....
                      -- SPEED TURN ---
                      
                      
----------------------- Begin AD 2030 -----------------------------------------------
[B]DEMOGRAPHICS:[/B]
Pop: 084.6M (Dem)
Tax: 40% (4815g, cost=1868g, 3069g in bank)
Sci: 30% (00b, 0T) (Tree + 050FT; researching FT051, cost about 2600b)
Lux: 30%
Prod: 1399MT (0T icons, 0 skulls)
Cities: 157 
Wonders: 11 (P,MC,CO,ME,JSB,INC,AST,DV,HD,SETI,CfC) 

[B]ENEMY:[/B]
Indian: 1 city  [Pet(size1): SB:09(1s-gained3) T:020g(1g loss1) S:0s F:11(+1f) ]

[B]FORCES (Zero are NONEs):[/B]
144 b21 Engineers
002 b00 Mech Infantry
003 b00 Howitzers
018 b00 Stealth Fighters
027 b01 Transports
008 b00 Spies
113 b41 Freight
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

121 2030 01 157D334 FT049, FT050, S-FT051  085M 1399Mt 2570-925  
                      Demographics: 085M 1399Mt 0020poll 144eng(b21) 113freight(b41) 18sf(b0) 
                      Pet(size1): SB:09(1s-gained3) T:020g(1g loss1) S:0s F:11(+1f) 
                      -- SPEED TURN ---

122      02 163D334 FT051, FT052, S-FT053  000M 0000Mt 2732-946  
                      Pet(size1): SB:12(1s-gained3) T:019g(1g loss1) S:0s F:12(+1f) 
                      Build 3 Wonders.  Oops, 2.  Built GL twice; now Apollo.
                      -- SPEED TURN ---

123      03 000D334 FT053, FT054, S-FT055  000M 0000Mt 2938-973; 1 pollution
                      Initiate Endgame.  Over 15000 gold in trade this turn.
                      Switch from grow & trade improvements to happy happy happy.
                      APOLLO ; Buy & IRB wonders now.
                      -- SPEED TURN ---
  
124      04 170D334 FT055, FT056, S-FT057  
                      19 wonders done so far.
                      Large trade.
                      Make cities happy.
                      Start joining engineers.
                      Some engineers known idle.
                      -- Minimal TURN ---
                        
125      05 177D334 FT000, FT058, S-FT059  
                      One wonder x2, swtich next.  Next turn All Done.  
                      Reset build, next turn end.
                      Make happy routes.
                      Minimal engineer work.
                      -- Minimal TURN ---
                      
126      06 179D334 FT059, FT060, S-FT061  0134M 1663Mt 4129-1128; 0 pollution
                      Pet(size1): SB:3(1s-gained3) T:015g(1g loss1) S:1s F:16(+1f)
                      -- Minimal TURN ---
                      
                      
  

[B]BEFORE TAKING LAST AI CITY (June 2030/126)[/B]
==========================================

POINTS                   
3264 Citizens           (approx 15,810 max)
0560 Achievements       (560 max)
0000 Spaceship          (400 max)
0000 Peace              (100 max)
0300 Future Technology  (1275 max)
0025 Barbarians         (set at start; -50, -25, 0, +25)
0000 Pollution          (0 or negative; -10 per skull)
====
4149 Civ 2 Total Score  (At kill of last AI city, which was destroyed)
 
GOTM 68 Wrap Up
I'll cover this in a bullet-style format.

Items of note:

- SCIENCE. Most often, it sat at 30%. Ideally, it should have been tweaked each turn; not doing the tweaks caused a lot of wasted gold. I never pushed the science up to to maximal, though at 80% science/20% luxuries, the empire could sustain 5 advances per turn, and would increase to 8 or more advances per turn within 2 years.

At the end of the game:
14500tax (1382 taxmen/capitalism) --OR--
12057bkr (0312 scientists) (Advance cost ~2800)

- TRADE: Trade commodities: Uranium appeared only 3 or 4 times. The 2/3 cap was the most significant factor; since science was not expensive, the real value of those Uranium, Oil, Spice, Coal, etc. freight was wasted. The upside was that undemanded commodities could fetch between 1100 and 1500 from a size 4-8 city to a trade city like N01. The single most valuable trade city was N01 because of its location and distance from so many cities. A limiting factor at times was the ability to transport (airlift) the quantity of freight which could be consumed, particularly to N01. The P continent (old Russia) was also valuable, and had enough airports to meet volume demand, plus reserve. Even junk cities (originally an x-city) like size 12 A0a would provide 1000g+ freight payouts for crap commodities.

- TRADE CITIES: Several cities which were suitable (C#7: A01, A04, B03, C03, H02; C#2: P35; C#13: N01; C#6: D14) were used to keep the value of small city trade high, relative to cap.

- TRADE IMPROVEMENTS: Airports and Superhighways were key to maximizing trade value. A route bonus could be done (e.g., hit at or near cap) without one, presuming a small-large citypair, providing the cargo was good & demanded (e.g., Spice, Gems, Oil, etc.).

- TRADE PEAK: This was in 2030, with over 15,000 to fund RB & IRB of wonders.

- FREIGHT REHOMING: Trade freight was not rehomed; it was made (IRB) then later transported and stored when it was necessary (happiness) or valuable enough to deliver.

- TRADE TECHNIQUE: I rename cities when I shift into a Power Democracy, and use the Shift-C to locate cities. City names indicate their continental relationship, and greatly speed accurate trade deliveries; even so, mistakes are made and airlift capacity reduced from theoretical maximum as a result. If demand is matched with supply, it helps to memorize what you built in your turn, then move it at turn outset before you forget and must use F5 (which is slow). The undelivered Freight queues up around its pre-determined destination(s), and as need arises, you go to the destination (like N01) and slam it in. If unneeded, then it waits in Sleep (short term delivery) or Fortified (code for "City must grow so Wait").

- POLLUTION: Pollution was very minor in this game, by design (expense, that is). Hoover Dam, as usual, provided the bulk of the control. I think there were only 3 pollution skulls that occurred, including one on a hill in late game. I did allow any pollution triangles (icons) in any city; if any occurred, either shields were reduced, or Mass Transit, Recycling Center, or Solar Plant (if shiled output could go over 61) was made.

- PET: My Pet was a non-factor. I never gifted him anything, as science was already very cheap, which cost me a lot of trade gold.

- PET-KEEPERS: These cities were called "R"-cities in this game; they were built to ensure the pet would shrink to size 1 and never recover.

- EXPANSION: Expansion was from the initial cities, using RR & ships for support & transport. Certain cities (usually called "ENGINEER" in the name) churned out engineers, many for rehoming, and later for pumping. If an Engineer city could not sustain (like D14), it sometimes had to "rest" to recover. Most generation was done via IPRBs from lower-shield output cities in the 10-18 range. No other government can do & sustain this empire-wide like Democracy. Although full population was planned for large cities across the map, the reality was more modest. Foundings were nowhere near complete, and most cities never reached there expected size, even the SSC (which never really reached its potential since science was never turned up). Only 179 cities were built. All 254 were planned.


Scoring Notes:
- City plans were for large, powerful cities (e.g., not A01-A0a type city crowding).
- Most planned cities were never built, or never got out of infancy.
- No minor cities (less than 12) were originally planned.
- No FCT was used.
- No food freight was used as food.
- The poles were not populated.
- Peace Dividend: none in this game.
- Spaceship: None.
 
@Ali + starlifter: I enjoyed reading your verbal reports - much easier than reading detailed logs, though both are useful for careful comparisons.

@Ali: The question of airports vs transports for troop movement came up several times in this thread, and it seems transports fared better. Note Magic Gorter's amazingly fast conquest (and Lord Valuna's OCC conquest and Uruwashi's last post [was 2023 correct?]). I guess boats are cheaper and easier to build, and can move an 8-unit invasion force faster. Do you prefer airports in general - or maybe just in that particular situation?

I had the same problem with Indian roads, but since they were a pet civ I had lots of time to spy on them (didn't you?). So, I prepared 1-2 engineers to put on the transport, to build quick road(s) and/or canal cities as needed.

@starlifter: Great game! Sounds like you should get a gold medal AND a blue star for it, something I haven't seen since I started in approx GOTM #45. Especially impressive since you apparently started late. Two questions -

Why did you emphasize science so much in this game ? (even after you got Stealth) I suppose you wanted the Future Tech points, but this seemed to have a small payoff compared to your citizen score, for example.

How did you deal with your Senate? IIRC from another thread, you provoke the AI into repeatedly attacking you until your Senate will back you up when you want war. Corrrect? Does this always work as planned ?

My method was a bit clumsy - I revolted before an oedo year, killed off the AI next turn under anarchy, and switched back to Demo for score.

@All: Congratulations! Though I completely misjudged this scenario, it was a pleasure to see various players "find the truth" about the fastest conquest strategies and good growth strategies in the modern age.
 
I had to cut my game short due to the deadline. I could have gotten another 2 or 3 turns of growth out the cities that were built and could have gotten the last 10 or so cities going if I didn't shift into 'rush mode'.

I also lost out on a chunk of points when my science beakers went negative and no more future techs were discovered.

Ended in 2031 March when I took out the Chinese, Russian Confederation and English Speaking Union.

Early on I could see the starting locations of all the Civs but one; the English Speaking Union. Much later in the game however, there appeared an irrigated square and then a couple turns later it turned to a farmland.

Looking back at those saves it was due to an English engineer irrigating then farming a square that was next to the capital. Why the earlier squares being worked didn't trigger it before I do not know.

Went in and stayed in Democracy the whole game (less the final turn were I revolted to delcare on the way too nice Chinese).

Engineers, Spies, Transports, Freight and Harbors ruled my game. Any military units I had were bought from the AI.
 
Peaster said:
@Ali + starlifter: I enjoyed reading your verbal reports - much easier than reading detailed logs, though both are useful for careful comparisons.
I used to just write stories before I came to CFC. Soon after I started writing logs. While logs are useful, the big picture (the story) gets lost in the details.
I too feel that both are useful.

Peaster said:
@Ali: The question of airports vs transports for troop movement came up several times in this thread, and it seems transports fared better. ... I guess boats are cheaper and easier to build, and can move an 8-unit invasion force faster. Do you prefer airports in general - or maybe just in that particular situation?
Just in this particular situation. Even with Magellan it takes a transport 8 days to go from Madrid to London. My invasion force was only 5 military units and one spy. My plan was to airlift the units (5 days) which were all vet and build a local spy to go with them.
Peaster said:
I had the same problem with Indian roads, but since they were a pet civ I had lots of time to spy on them (didn't you?). So, I prepared 1-2 engineers to put on the transport, to build quick road(s) and/or canal cities as needed.
I did not pay attention to that detail till it was too late and unfortunately I had no Engineers on board.
Peaster said:
@starlifter: Great game! Sounds like you should get a gold medal AND a blue star for it, something I haven't seen since I started in approx GOTM #45.
You would have seen that combination a lot had you been around when Starlifter was active. I only met him for a few GOTMs before he left. Expect to see a lot of that if he sticks around.
 
... no pun intended :).

by Peaster:
Why did you emphasize science so much in this game ? (even after you got Stealth) I suppose you wanted the Future Tech points, but this seemed to have a small payoff compared to your citizen score, for example.
My plan was for a full civilization; but due to real life and catching up on reading & some posting at CFC took its toll on play time. With all the PD resources, I also develop science. The most I have sustained in a GOTM is about 6 (or maybe 7) advances per turn. I think I could have hit 10 per turn (before the rollover ~167 or so), and wanted to see it.

I never finished the science preparation, which involved pushing trade higher with railroads and matching city pairs, particularly for the SSC, plus building Universities. It would have given me only about 2,000 more gold per turn to forgo the extra tech per turn, as I got the first tech each turn with just the 3-beaker trigger scientist + Freight. I was too rushed, and did not think of dropping science a notch during the warp-speed last year or so.

The score just falls out of the playstyle; I consider this game a semi-failure in the sense that I did not meet my own internal goals of certain types of play that I do, but are not constraints on others. Things like city layout, "elegance" of efficiency, # of beakers of SSC, Spotless record (I stabbed the EU in the back, and for the first time in a GOTM for me, got a black mark; I should have not been tempted by the 200gold, but that seemingly insignificant amount was a key to accelerating the initiation of PD a few turns later; that was a major lapse of planning for me), yada yada. One goal was to hit 10 FTs per turn before the rollover, another was to hit 1500 GOTM score; both would have eventually happened, but it would have been about 22-23 hours more of gameplay. The final science goal was, of course, 254 FTs... I only had 60.

by Peaster:How did you deal with your Senate? IIRC from another thread, you provoke the AI into repeatedly attacking you until your Senate will back you up when you want war. Corrrect? Does this always work as planned ?
The senate was easy in this game, since most of the fighting was done in Fundamentalism; it only said a word once.

In 2025 after finishing all wars but the EU & Indians, I had unwanted (but profitable) peace treaties. Because of the Oedo year (August 2025, GT068), I wanted Democracy right then, and that is why I broke the treaty on the turn when I came out of anarchy. You can switch governments with no penalty all you want that turn, and I switched from Democracy to Fundy, threatened both the last 2 civs by demanding tribute.

The purple declared war for my tribute demand, and the EU ignored my threat. Unfortunately, I had to backstab the EU, because I wanted their city right then, on that exact turn. I also had to know what I should do with my Engineer (peace or combat), which depended on the state of war with the EU. I had thought the EU could be provoked -- I even had troops in their radius -- and that I would not have to break the 200gold peace treaty from the turn before. In retrospect, I would have not made a peace treaty, then my spotless would be intact. After I attacked the EU (and they were extinct), I went back to Democracy, with an "Honrable" reptuation -- the worst I have ever had this century. The EU was gone, and I had a 'pre-existing' war with the last civ (purple).

In October 2026, I approached the city of Karakorum to do more bad stuff to it, and the Senate forced peace. This was expected sooner or later. I had no UN, no prior purple backstabbing me, expected no Hawk support, and in fact no choice in the matter (as expected)... but not to worry. My combat fighting freight were on hand to totally goad the AI... sitting in their/my city radii, some sleepijng, some fortified, not to mention a spy, plus a Howitzer sitting in one of their fortresses.

A marine (which India was making) can attack only once, and I expected at worst one lost unit in a sneak attack; then I have Hawk support, UN or not. In December 2027, the Indian marine was complete, and he chose only to expel one of my spies -- no attack. On my turn, I insisted the Indians withdraw their troops (they had an Engineer outside their city, and it was simultaneously inside MY city radii) since Karakorum's city squares were INSIDE the city radii of my Pet-Control cities... naturally, the AI was not going to withdraw... they really could not anyway, so they declared war. My howie pounced on the silly purple Marine, which took another citizen from Karakorum as a trophy.

The senate, other than the one force peace, never said another word, and the AI had no units for me to come face-to-face with. War was peacefully conducted for the rest of the game -- e.g., spies pounced on the city and stripped it bare (two improvements: temple + airport), poisoning the water for fun too. The AI was reduced to a single food, a single shield, a single gold, and a single science beaker for the rest of the game. When the production box began to get full, a spy would sabotage it. The AI had no means to fight back.

Karakorum was mine... my Pet! Nice doggie. Sit. Rollover. Play dead. You're mine. :)
 
by Ali Ardavan:
... But I lost both my vet stealth aircraft attacking the Indian fighter planes! ... Here I was at the gates of an empty Karakorum with no units to take it.
Fortunately the Indians had no units left but their 2 bombers which could only return to Karakorum and not counter attack.
That is exciting warfare! Air battles and all. The game of Civ 2 has 2 (at least 2) very different faces... that of war & all its challenges (not just to win, but to win with power and grace) ... and a peaceful "Bob the Builder". The former is fun and also exciting, but the latter is... um, not as much. Sounds like yours was fun, the writeup sure is :).

by Ali Ardavan:
I should have put 7 commodity vans on that transport as well. Demanded or not, those deliveries would have brought tremendous amount of cash.
... the power of Fighting Freight. In total war against a developed, defended AI when using Power Democracy, freight "kill" partisans by the dozens while accompanying the attack units. The kill means by suppression, or by suppressing formation on defensive terrain. They lead the way (ZOC), and pay the bills, then endure the happiness after the city is taken (due to the trade routes which were established when the AI enemy had control). Freight also cause/incite wars, almost on demand, and ultimately get the Hawks to back you as a result. Fighting freight have really done their work when they are bloodied according to the Defense Minister (F2)! :nuke:


by Duke of Marlbrough:
Went in and stayed in Democracy the whole game
Wow! So you are a fighting democrat... fighting in Democracy seems impossible at first; in 1999, I thought the world rose and set with Communism and Vet Spies... but the game is not that shallow, fortunately. So many gears one can choose, and strategies to use.

by Duke of Marlbrough:
I also lost out on a chunk of points when my science beakers went negative and no more future techs were discovered.
Actually, I didn't quite follow that part... negative beakers? I'm thinking only pollution and barbarian level can lose points or go negative on score, but its been a long day & its late here now :sad: ...


Congratulations to all who played... and also those who wanted to or didn't get to finish. :goodjob:
 
starlifter said:
Actually, I didn't quite follow that part... negative beakers? I'm thinking only pollution and barbarian level can lose points or go negative on score, but its been a long day & its late here now :sad: ...
It's the first time I've encountered it, but it seems my beaker count went negative. I delivered about 35-40k worth of freight in a turn. As the deliveries began, beaker icon went to red, deliveries kept going and then the icon went to empty again.
 
It's the first time I've encountered it, but it seems my beaker count went negative. I delivered about 35-40k worth of freight in a turn. As the deliveries began, beaker icon went to red, deliveries kept going and then the icon went to empty again.
I've not heard of that before, but it sounds like the limitation of double byte integer storage. 2 bytes=16 bits; one for +/- leaves 15 bits to store an integer number (and that's how Brian did most of Civ 2, to increase CPU performance back in the old days). 2^15 = 32768. When your trade exceeds 32768, the next bit that is set is the sign bit. This is why its suddenly negative, and I just did some tests, which bear it out in 5.4.0f. Sure enough, deliver over ~32000 (I did not test to the digit though), and you get negative numbers. :sad:

Now comes the stranger part. The way you get out of the hole seems to be to "pay" a 90% tax... e.g., you deliver 1700 beakers, and your "debt" goes from say -2300 to (-2300 + [1700/10] ) or a result of -2130. This seems to hold true for both researched beakers and delivered beakers. Once your clear your "times ten" debt, then you work on the "ones" debt... once that is "cleared" -- which means reducing it to zero or a postive number, then science works as normal again.

This all means you lost about 32000 to 35000 science, most likely.... :eek:

Has anyone heard of this before? Very strange, but "makes sense" in terms of how the game was done.

The key to avoid this is not to deliver more than say 30000 or so before letting your end turn reset the science accumulation via normal generated beakers. :(

If it happens to someone, I'd say its OK to replay that turn & make sure the 32000 is not exceeded. I'm sure most of the players are having that sort of problem, now that everyone plays PD, hehe. I've evidently never delivered 32000 in one turn, or else never noticed the science hit. In this game, the most I delivered was almost 15,000.


BTW, I did not get a red indication of science; just an empty science box that was heretofore full of white beakers.
 
I wasn't paying attention enough to it at the time as I was just trying to get the game done.

I didn't even realize it had even happened until I was going through the cycle for the next turn and didn't gain any techs. The good thing though was that it made my game go even faster as I soon relaized that the new deliveries weren't bringing it back to 'positive' either. Cutting out moving 40+ freight around the map saved a lot of time as did stopping the rush buying for 240 cities.
 
Experienced players probably know this, but newer ones may not....

What will happen if your first city (a size one city!), the Capital, builds an Engineer/Settler before your possess a 2nd city?

A. Disband your capital & you lose the game.
B. Disband your capital & you get a NONE settler.
C. Go "in the hole" one citizen.
D. Create a supported E/S, and no change to your food stores, no disband.
E. Create a supported E/S, and your food box empties, no disband.

From this city status (below), how do you build the E/S on the next turn, August 2020?


Answer...
Spoiler :
D. Create a supported E/S, and no change to your food stores, no disband.

SO if you disband your Rifleman (20 shields) to help the Engineer cost, you will have 2 cities, quickly.


The screenshot also contains the sequence of ICS cities I built in this GOTM. Cities 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9 were originally planned for eventual eradication ("x-cities"). But I had to build the Pyramids in #4, so it got a free pass (I removed it from the x-list). #5 turned out to be fairly valuable, despite having only 11 of it 12 citizens being terrain workers. It brought in over 100 gold and science each turn, and occasional deliveries of 1000+ gold/beakers, so I kept that x-city too (see log).



After containing the AI in a Fundamentalism war, I spent several turns building up key improvements and Freight. The delivery that started it all was demanded Spice from N01 to A01, both of which had airports. N01 (source) had Superhighways. In hindsight, this 2026-02 delivery should have been done in 2026-01, and no waiting on the N01 Superhighways, as the big Spice bonus still kept the valu beyond the 2/3 cap.


I use a lettering/numbering system to speed trade in late game. The continents and city groupings were lettered like this:
 
starlifter said:
I've not heard of that before...

This all means you lost about 32000 to 35000 science, most likely.... :eek:

Has anyone heard of this before? Very strange, but "makes sense" in terms of how the game was done...

Yes, it happened to me several years ago. I was working on FT and delivered too much freight one turn. IIRC, it took 3 or 4 turns to return to normal. Nice to know the mechanics of what caused it. :goodjob:
 
starlifter said:
I use a lettering/numbering system to speed trade in late game.

Interesting. I also name my cities based on land masses. Not many people tend to do that. I also use my city names to hold 'notes' for the city or its units.

Mine were similar to yours:
A->A
B->B
C->C
D->D
E->only threw two cities on late in the game (the land mass at the end of 'D' was my 'E')
Q->J
P->K
 
The negative beaker count is caused by integer addition without checking for overflow as starlifter explained (though I could not follow his subsequent discussion about the 90% tax). This integer-addition-without-checking-for-overflow happens all over the game. It is what causes future techs to go to zero after 255, the tech cost to go back to 10 around future tech 168, ... In most cases the program is using unsigned integers which causes the number to roll over to zero, in the case of the beaker count it is using a signed integer (I do not know why as beaker count can never be negative in the normal course of the game so I guess this is an oversight on the part of the programmers) which causes the rollover to negative numbers. Fortunately, the next number after the max is -1 not the largest negative number possible.

The first time I hear of this effect (negative beaker count) was when OldnSlow reported it on the spoiler thread for GOTM58, the gauntlet.
 
Civdood neber get so many citiey as 179 or 240! So many. Civdood miss starman biq questin, how can it be u not make none settler since u have no extra city and u have only one? Is this true? :sad:
 
It is a special case, which Civ 2's primary programmer (Brian Reynolds) did, in order to prevent the loss of your civilization at the start. Knowing this allows your to, in effect, get reduced-price citizen. Since the game is at the outset, a 2nd citizen (in the form of a Settler/Engineer ... or S/E ...) doubles your civilizations resource-gathering capability. That is definitely worth the price of a NON rifleman to get sooner, too. If you look carefully at the food box, you see it will FILL on the next turn, just when the Engineer is produced. This means you get an Engineer... AND the turn after that, you get ANOTHER citizen (now you are size 2, and an empty food box). This is one way to get a fast start, and how the whole planet can be conquered in 2024, or possibly late 2023, judging by what Magic_gorter posted. :)
 
(though I could not follow his subsequent discussion about the 90% tax).
Sorry, late night & fast post. I was trying to give a non-tech feel to what would happen... when you watch what happens, it seems that you deliver say a 2000 freight, but if you look at the resulting balance, you only get a credit of ~200 beakers, not the 2,000 that you just delivered. So for every 10 beakers you deliver, only one is counted to reducint the "tens" debit to zero... which "feels" like being levied a 90% beaker "tax".

Fortunately, few will have this problem. Duke sounds like he had an awesome game, and if he's spending 30,000+, then you can bet that he's running a great power democracy!! Its too bad that the real exercise of "P" in PD is not completely possible, since the P means ability to seamlessly shift from war to science to tax to growth, without a burp. No other game can do that; PF can come close, but not for the growth part. Power is one's ablity to impose your hegemony (your world-view, or "will") on others, including the system (e.g., economy, terrain, etc.). Hence, the term "Power" Democracy. The early game democracy is not PD, since others (barbs, terrain, finances, etc.) impose their constraints on you, thus limiting your strategy options. In PD, you can do anything you want, and most things simultaneously, at that.

Congratulations on your game Duke! It definitely sounds superior to mine this month. It will be interesting to compare how a continious democracy progressed, versus Demo-Fundy-Attack-Demo that I did. In particular, did Democracy-Expand that you did give a big jump on the slow growth of Fundy; in theory, it probably should. A PD will simply squash the AI like an insect as the PD expands. I went Demo-Fundy-Demo, to rapidly take advantage of the map dimensions, otherwise I really like fighting and slaughtering the enemy with the sword of democracy. :)
 
I should have focused on trade earlier and shifted away from it sooner. Conversly, I focused on expansion too long in the beginning and not enough on growth until it was too late. Ending the game with 20,000+ gold just shows the waste of resources that were put into it in the end game.

I'll pull together the city/year comparison numbers when I can.
 
starlifter said:
Power is one's ablity to impose your hegemony (your world-view, or "will") on others, including the system (e.g., economy, terrain, etc.). Hence, the term "Power" Democracy. The early game democracy is not PD, since others (barbs, terrain, finances, etc.) impose their constraints on you, thus limiting your strategy options. In PD, you can do anything you want, and most things simultaneously, at that.

I am running a democracy in approx 1000AD of GOTM69, the first time I've ever aimed for a high Civ2 score. I have control over everything (except maybe my Senate) so it seems to qualify as a "Power" democracy. But IMO my ultimate score will depend mainly on how long I play (how long I let my civ grow) rather than how well I play. I've intentionally made lots of dumb moves (like building sewer systems in size one cities, stupid deliveries, etc) just to save RL time.

My question is - should a demo player with moderate skill even stop to think?

This is not intended to be offensive! It is clear that good demo players DO think, much more than I have in my game. I could certainly understand answers like "yes, a really strong PD is just more fun" or "yes, to speed things up and try for a gold star". Just curious about the psychology of demo players. :)
 
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