Gotm 69

[starlifter]

GOTM is for everyone, and IMHO is especially for newer players, players that might want to see how others play, and just to play a map that lots of others will also do. "New" GOTMers are not viewed with the "oh gee, not another newbie question", etc., that you see in many internet forums.

Also, a lot of the 'shop talk' (esp. from the likes of me) is about a lot of innane, mundane, and even totally insane details. A lot of that stuff does not apply to gamers unless they are trying for a similar strategy. The game does absolutely not need to be played that way, and people in this Forum (the Civ 2 community, historically) view all games and especially posts as worthwhile and interesting. So don't let the large posts or minutia in micromanagement talk scare or intimidate... people of all levels play!! And have fun. And are welcome.

 

[ElephantU]

All we really ask is that you play a bit on your own (like up to the first "official" save at AD1) before reading and commenting in the Spoiler forum. It's unfair to the others if you read the mistakes they made before you start playing, and some games have an "early suprise" (like the time Duke loaded the AI with extra units!). The primary GOTM thread (like this one) is not for spoiler or other play comments, but for clarifications of the starting conditions and pre-play discussion of strategies.

 

[starlifter]

I plan to do an OCC this month, despite it being Prince (I've never done an OCC except at diety... need to think about the tech paradigms for my AI reseach assistants... could be "slow" [?] ...). I've not gotten it yet, since the webpage keeps giving an error "not available" right now.

 

[LordValuna]

I plan to do an OCC this month,

I hope you do a good job on your log
as the link to paulicy is dead, which had a nice table with the wonders, improvements and the techs for OCC

dead paulicy link http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ.htm

 

[ElephantU]

I've got a copy of the text of the Paulicy, but not the Quick Reference Table. Anyone got a copy of that, even on paper?

 

[starlifter]

...dead paulicy...

I thought I had a copy, but no. I'm sure its around somewhere on the web though.

Before I start this month's game, I'm going to look at some old OCCs, and really think about Prince level first. I've played OCC conquer before, on a small map (Sten Sture's 4-whales). But it was almost at tedius making a spy return system as PD trade system, LOL. I'm wondering if this map can be done as a Size 4 OCC or even size 1, but I'll probably do a normal size w/SS, I've not played OCC in a long time.

I hope you do a good job on your log

It was learning OCC in 1999 that I started doing logs. Had the original OCCers not made & posted their logs, my OCC play would not have improved and I would never have learned many of the finer points of the game.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I too am planing on doing an OCC. Part of the reason is real time. Finishing GOTM68 took much longer than I expected. I probably will not start on this one till next weekend.

With all due respect to the pioneering work of Paul V. in writing Paulicy, it is somewhat out of date. Our OCC masters ElephantU, OldnSlow, and TimTheEnchanter would be good candidates for writing a new one.

 

[starlifter]

Part of the reason is real time. Finishing GOTM68 took much longer than I expected. I probably will not start on this one till next weekend.

Ditto, exactly!

Smash is (was) an OCC expert, too. Is he still here? He's listed as a Mod, but I see no activity from him in months.

 

[civdood]

Sorry to noobie, but what means OCC? Paulicy=policy, yes? (not see linnk work)

 

[Peaster]

I've got a copy of the text of the Paulicy, but not the Quick Reference Table. Anyone got a copy of that, even on paper?

Ermmmm.... I printed one out last year for our OCC comparison at Poly, and probably still have it somewhere (but a quick search for it failed). If it is the only surviving copy, I will look more carefully. And post it on ebay (j/k).

 

[ElephantU]

OCC = One City Challenge

Paulicy = Paul van den Belt's One City Strategy Guide
(included rules, strategy suggestions, and comparison games)
Paul was strong on an 80-shield city, but he does mention some end-game ideas for smaller production. His suggestions could be filled out now with more info about tech paths and trade.

 

[LordValuna]

I've got a copy of the text of the Paulicy, but not the Quick Reference Table. Anyone got a copy of that, even on paper?

Amazingly I discovered the reference table (after having disappeared for about a year) I retyped it but couldnt upload the file, doesnt like doc or pdf extensions

edit: ok read the help file, and its a zip file, click on link below

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/15576/OCC_Ref.zip

 

[ElephantU]

Thanks, LV. I booted an old Win98 machine yesterday in hopes that I had a copy on it and found one from 2003. Yours looks pretty good too.

I will start a thread in Strategy over the weekend to resurrect this valuable (if dated) guide. Anybody know how to contact Paul regarding reproduction rights? We may want to gather some commentary and improvements and publish our own revised version in a second thread.

 

[starlifter]

Thanks also, LV. The guide is a good starting place. I'm trying to find my first OCC log; hopefully a friend has it, since I don't have most stuff from back in 2002 anymore (unfortunately including all those hundreds of missing graphics in some old threads that must have been lost in forum upgrades in the last 4 years, or whatever).

 

[ElephantU]

I don't know if I'll have enough time to do an OCC this month, but as I think through the starting conditions I am worried about the missing civs. If my One City spends too much time with it's KeyCiv as one of the missing it will face a serious research penalty. White and Green are the most likely to cause long-term problems, as they correspond to Power Ratings of Pathetic and Weak, which is where OCCs tend to spend the most time. The other settings are favorable, particularly the starting techs which permit first round research of Monarchy and either Trade or Republic on the fourth round. I notice Duke has also thrown us another curve by choosing continent #1 for our starting location.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I am worried about the missing civs. If my One City spends too much time with it's KeyCiv as one of the missing it will face a serious research penalty.

Your worry is unjustified for 2 reasons. One, this is a prince level game; thus even with such a handicap you can still win. Two, in OCC the power rating (and hence the key civ) changes throughout the game quite a bit. This is unlike a landing game where you spent the majority of the game stuck on supreme.

White and Green are the most likely to cause long-term problems, as they correspond to Power Ratings of Pathetic and Weak, which is where OCCs tend to spend the most time.

No, white and green are the ones that cause absolutely no problems. In fact, a 5-civ game with white and green missing is no different than a 7-civ game. That is because the most powerful is always supreme as opposed to the least powerful being pathetic.

The ones that cause most problem are blue, yellow, and cyan. We are playing as cyan, so we know that one is in.

I notice Duke has also thrown us another curve by choosing continent #1 for our starting location.

It is irrelevant for OCC. We know there is a 4 special site with ocean access one tile away. We know at least one special is great (a whale). The rest of the continent we are on is irrelevant for OCC.

 

[ElephantU]

Of course we can still win, but getting stuck in a KeyCiv hole significantly prolongs the effort, while one of the primary reasons for playing OCC is to cut down the time required. I've played several OCCs with missing civs before, and always found myself hitting those holes at some point in the game. Once I know where they are I can try to alter my strategy to manage my Power Rating but it limits my flexibility.

You are right that White and Green are not important in this game because the bottom two ratings will not be used unless a civ is split by civil war. I was arguing about the problems of less than 7 civs, but then picked the colors based on 7. Dumb. My favorite strategy is to spend most of my time as the lowest power rating, so I definitely need Blue in the game. Once I get my city to size 3 (and milk MPE for early alliances) I like to get an early spurt of growth in to size 8 or 12, which often tops me out before the AI hits a growth spurt. That would mean that not having Purple in the game will also hurt for a while. Once the AI catches up (they seem to react to the growth of the human player with a switch to Republic and their own growth, at least in their core cities - which incidentally means that early caravan deliveries should be targeted at their capital or a high-food city near the capital) I let them pass me and drop back down to the bottom of Power Ratings, primarily because I am trying to pump out caravans as quickly as possible for wonder building. If the AI has been aggressive there is sometimes a stunted or restarted civ so I will either settle on Blue or Yellow in the mid-game. When I get Shakes and Demo I will go for another growth spurt to top out in the low 20s, which can sometimes cause me to top out again, moving up and down a few steps on the Power Rating ladder again. In the late game I am often gathering gold faster than I can pump out freights, and gold is one of the determinants of Power Rating. If my city is smaller (lately I've tended to aim for 30 or 50 shields rather than 80) I rely on accumulated gold rather than production.

You mention we are Cyan, which is #5. Odd that none of the lower numbered AI civs has planted a city yet.

Yes, there is a 4-special site next door, but it is Swampland. There is another 4-special nearby, and a couple 3-specials, but since both land and ocean are #1 we cannot tell if they are accessible. I'd like to know if the island is small or large, too, because if it is a large continent there may be another civ on it and that would greatly change my early strategy. Getting early trade routes with an AI city on your continent can lead to significant improvements in those routes once key road/rail lines are completed. So I don't think it is "irrelevant". But then I'm a bit of a perfectionist.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Decisions, decisions.