GOTM #8 *Spoilers* Thread

[Grey Fox]

Finished my game this night.

Score: Somewhere in the 10k area


I used a quite useful teqnique to stop Barbarians from appearing I used ALL my produced warriors (which was 1-2 between every settler in the beginning), as scouts, putting one on every Mountain top(here and there), so I could see every single tile around my nation. I only had 1 Barbarian uprising.

Anyways, I started by attacking Russia, but not so early as many of the other players here did. I had 30+ horsemen when the war broke out and because of an RoP deal I could take 4-5 cities within the first 2 turns. I left the Capital alone with the intention of having it build the wonder it was building for me. The Great Library. But it lost the race and started building the Sun Tzu... I got peace with em, did some espionage and noticed the turn amount left on the project. I also noticed that there could be some more improvements done on their worked tiles. So I sent some workers to their city and mined 3 plains and 1 hill for them, shortening the work on Sun Tzu for them by half or so. By now I also signed an RoP with England, and I ran to their only Iron deposit with a warrior and a spearman, and sat there waiting.
When the Sun Tzu was built it became mine. And I took the rest of russia.

Now my eyes went for England, I sent all my horsemen at em, and conquered em I did. (Many knights was used in the process aswell), after that I took a look at France and was afraid that they were gonna get Musketmen. But they had no Saltpeter so I attacked em with my Knights.

Anyway, I don't know when I controlled the entire continent but it was somewhere in in the 1000 AD area.

Then I had some wars with Japan and India to take Luxaries, and a World War broke out because of MPP's.

Anyway, when I got Panzers I took out Japan, then I went for India, crushing them, and then I atacked China. (Only razing cities here because I didn't want Domination).

My tanks ran out when I attacked China, so I got peace. Rebuild my army, and later attacked again, leaving them with a tundra city on my main continent.

I settled some good grassland sites on the smaller continent and abandoned my tundra cities 1 by 1.

Later in the game I used Nukes to create Floodplains, and increased the amount of citizens on every grassland tile that I nuked with 0.5 , and every plains tile with 1.

Got anarchy twice when warring in Democracy even though every citizen was kept happy with entertainment.

Researched 17 Future Techs, and got a total of 5.7 points from it there is deffinatly something wrong with the score formula for Future techs...

Anyway, won by Culture at 2050. I guess it won't be the earliest . Would be pretty funny if it is, so please don't win by culture!

Anyway, it was quite a fun game. And the first where I used my Nuke The River Teqnique! (to create floodplains).


Anyway, have a good game!

 

[Zachriel]

On the German Valor thread, cracker was wondering what happened to the Chinese, as I never met any Chinese. He thought it might have something to do with "flying monkeys." He suggested I download the Civ3MultiTool, which I did. This is what I found:

German Valor thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=330491#post330491

 

[Phillip_martin]

Originally posted by ainwood
I too find it "interesting" that there are lots of views, and little posting early on.

I, personally, don't read the spoilers until I have the entire world-map. I think that at this point, the game is well enough advanced, and that the spoilers don't "help" me. However, I don't post my progress on the thread until the game is progressed much further.

As I understand it the rules for a spoiler thread is that you cannot look until the world is known or you are a long way into the game.

In my games I do not post early but do look at how others progress. In my game while I discovered Russia early I did not invade but concentrated on filling my borders. I wish I had as it is 1990 and Cath is the most powerful nation with me and Liz in awe of her army/culture/the lot .

This is the last time I try a make the world love me strategy as CIV III is a conquest game. Someone built the UN a million years ago but no election has been held.

As a mediocre player even an ealy reading of the spoiler may not help me

Maybe another couple of hours tonight now that I have Modern Armour!

 

[disorganizer]

my game:
i (as many) also ran into the russians early. as normaly never start a war early on, i just wanted to change my tactics this time.
after short, i had conquered russia
i then continued widespread settlement and after the lands were claimed, i started to dense settle my area. this plus a culture-attack on the borders to england and france flipped some of their city. winth tanks in my hands, i went to wartime to ally all nations against the france, which i destroyed.
having the largest nation and with the graciousness of my military partners, i managed to win un victory.

 

[Creepster]

Continued from my earlier post.

France is truly dead now. I sent several tanks at them and within a few turns theu were gone. I then went to work on clearing the second large continent. Japan went quickly under to my modern armor. China was nice enough to weaken herself in assisting me in destoying Japan. I then cleaned China off from the map in a short period of time. It is early in the 1900's and I am getting bored milking the score. I think I waited too long before I wiped out the enemy, my score is not going to be very high. Currently it looks like I might be able to get about 7000 or so. I will have to watch my culture though. It is already getting too high.

Good job to ZACHRIEL for the best post and show I have read on the story of his game.

 

[Phaedrus]

My first post:

I dealt with barbarians by spending my money, evacuating the cities and letting them beat their heads against nothing. Looked like mass suicide. Very satisfying. I stayed peaceful and built culture and knowledge beelining to motorized transportation (Panzers). I had a factory in every city (28) and began building nothing but panzers. I attacked England with 30 Panzers and the GA kicked in. I was pumping out 6-7 Panzers per turn. I wiped England off the continent and decided to try a UN victory since I have never tried that. Got the UN and the vote came up offering Otto and Cathy as candidates. I forgot who I was (major brain cramp) and abstained. There was no clear victor so the game continued. I realized what I had done and frantically tried to figure out how to trigger another vote. I guess it's just a random number of turns thing so I started bribing everyone every turn trying to keep them polite. The vote came up after Japan had nearly sucked me dry and I won! Not a high score but very satisfying despite my foo-pah. Good luck to all.

 

[JediSloth]

Just finished & posted my game, diplo victory in 1695/1700, for a very low score (for GOTM - average for me!).

But some questions which have been bugging me since I read this thread, some people did very well with early attacks, I intended to do this, but in the end never fought a single war, never had a golden age, only got a couple of wonders, Adam Smiths (was aiming for JS Bachs and was beaten to it by 5 turns), and UN. Didnt bother trying for early wonders thou.

I got 7/8 cities up and running ASAP, built temples and barracks in most (all?), after a warrior or spearman defender, then hooked up the nearest iron resource, and built a dozen or so swordsmen, and prepared to attack russia - then realised they had pikemen and a few musketmen, so backed down. The units I built never saw combat.....

So questions;

Early military rush - do people bother with barracks (cheap for germany), or in fact many buildings at all?

I built most cities in the jungle area - trying to snag the luxury resources - Bad Idea? (took lots of worker to make these cities productive, but when they were they were very good - 200 turns later

Horses were added to trade network in time to make six or so knights/later cavalry.

Spent most of game with low tech rate, and bartered for techs for luxuries and cash, (later on I led tech race in some branches - in modern era)

 

[Creepster]

JediSloth,

Here is my two cents worth.

I tend to attack somewhat early in the game and this is what I do. I like to wait until I have Iron before I attack. I build warriors for future upgrades to swordsman and let them explore until I have Iron (Science rate is 100%, and I am micromanging my city(ies))). While they are exploring I have them attack the babarians, this generally gets them upgraded to Veteran or Elite.

When I get iron, I build a barracks in a high productive city. I them send all warriors to that city as well as having that cities production switch over to producing swordsman. After I discover Iron Working I switch my science to 0%, and my tax rate to 100%. My goal is to upgrade my warriors and I need money. The techs I will get from the civ I will be attcking. In this GOTM it was Russia. When I get at least 6 swordsman I attack. I like to have at least 3 swordsman per city. This gives me a comfortable edge to ensure that I will win.

From here it is a matter of style of play. I may take one or two cities or a whole bunch. One thing I always do before I kill of the civ is to let them have peace for at least a turn and take their techs, money , and map. This will recoup the investment you just made in the war effort.

Others are more aggressive on attacking than I am. I am experimenting with Horseman vs Spearmen and it may also work well. I am still not sure how much I like that one. It does give you the units to upgrade to Knights or Calvary for later in the game.

As far as the golden age is concerned, you should never miss it. I once played the Egyptians and kept 4 chariots in reserve to trigger my GA when I wanted it. I was just entering the modern age when I wanted my GA. I found a unit that I was at war with that was almost dead (1 health rifleman) and had the chariots attack it. The first two died and the third one won the battle. You may have to get creative, but you need to trigger the GA. It is too important to miss and in a lot of cases can be the equalizer against the AI.

 

[pharmacy]

Hi all,

I want to win by producing 20,000 cp in Berlin! I just erase England becase Liz refused to cease fire and my peaceful people got confused! (where will English team go if they can not win Brasil this Friday??) [dance]

I just wonder if France build MP and I raze the city, will everyone be able to produce nukes???

 

[cracker]

I should add to creepster's comments about Golden Ages:

I think there may be many things that just have to do with you style of play, or how you might feel today, or some wild and crazy need to play things a certain way, but I cannot see any of these choices that do not include recognizing the importance of timing and getting the golden age.

This 20 turn warp drive shot of productivity and cash is just what you need to complete any strategy.

Whether you get it by building wonders or by carefully setting up condition to use a badly out of date UU, just make the effort to include getting a golden age in your game strategy and your whole outlook for the game may change.

My thoughts are generally that I want to trigger the GA after I have enough cities to really benefit from its power. Preferably I am in Democracy or Monarchy/Republic. If the FP is already complete then the power of the GA is virtually doubled.

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by pharmacy


I just wonder if France build MP and I raze the city, will everyone be able to produce nukes???

Once nukes are invented there is no way to uninvent em, sorry. (I think)

Try to keep the others from having Uranium or something...

 

[pharmacy]

Thanks for your comments. I think you are right. However, keeping uranium away from "coutries of evil" is not easy. Probably I have to use "war on terrorism" ... bombard their countries. Not very civilized but practical.

Anyway, Berlin will produce 20,000 cp before 2050. I have to make sure overall culture won't double all rivals and no spaceship is produced.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by cracker
I think there may be many things that just have to do with you style of play, or how you might feel today, or some wild and crazy need to play things a certain way, but I cannot see any of these choices that do not include recognizing the importance of timing and getting the golden age.

Everyone should have a Golden Age. I had mine with the first Panzer attack. Germany was mobilized for war at the time, and every one of twenty-one native German cities had factories, and hydro-power (Hoover Dam). Productivity exploded to say the least. This is the battle plan that brought Germany into a Golden Age

http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/GOTM8/

 

[Hergrom]

Conquest victory on 2050 AD, score between 5-8k.

This was my first game playing the German's, and I must say that Panzers rule. The extra movement point is a huge difference maker over regular tanks.

Established Berlin at starting position, made three warriors for exploration(east, west then south) then my first settler. Established 2nd city on the pond by ivory. Discovered Cathy and noticed close proximity of Moscow. Established cities at spices (?) in jungle, and on hill by incense. Discovered iron in mountains by Berlin and sent my next settler there. Built barracks in Berlin and second city and started building swordsman (no horses conected yet). Attacked Cathy with 6 swordsman, and took Moscow. Too many losses after a couple of turns, so we made peace.

Spent the next several centuries expanding, then attacked Cathy again with knights. Took almost all of Russia's cities, and made peace again. Another hundred years or so and France declares war. Not really sure why, but I made her pay. Luckily she had made several cities along the east coast and throughout the jungle for me. I took all of her outlying cities in a few turns, but never penetrated her homeland, as she had musketeers, and I had knights still. After supplying me with nearly 10 cities we made peace. I then declared war on the remants of Russia and banished Cathy to an island. The whole north and east were mine, with the south belonging to Joan, and the west to Lizzy.

Tha was my last war until I had Panzers. I spent the years in between building infrastructure, buildings, and a tech lead. My first wonder built was Theory of Evolution, but the most important was Hoover's Dam. As a side note, I actually go to build the Iron Works, but it came much later in the game.

As soon as I had the ability to build Panzers, I starte almost every city building them. I did not have oil, but Joan had traded it to me for 1gpt!!!!! After 20 turns of 1gpt oil, Joan had lost her supply, so I did too. I immediately attacked Lizzy, with the assistance of Joan, the Chinese AND the Japanese. With no more oil I had to beeline for Lizzy's supply of oil deep in her territory. After about 12 turns, Liz was no more. I kept all of her outlying cities, but razed her core cities and built my own. (Thanks Liz for building railroads throughout my new realm After a few years of peace, I decided it was time for Joan to go. Joan's cities were larger and much better defended, so I had a tougher time, and more losses agianst her. She also had a stack of nearly 60 infantry, riflemen and lonbowmen wandering into my territory. That stack never did attack, only walked back and forth. By mid 1700's I owned the entire continent. At that point Cathy, Joan & Lizzy were all extinct.

I slipped a city in between China and Japan where Inda had been (they were destroyed by Japan a short while earlier). China and Japan were in constant warfare for the next 80 or so years, neither gaining ground, but falling hopelessly behind in tech.

As soon as I had modern armor, I airlifted a total of about 80 MA onto the other continent. I first eliminated China, the gifted Japan 1 city on an island ajacent to a city of mine, then attacked. I eliminated about 25 Japanese cities in 3 turns, 18 of them in the last turn. Of course, I razed all of China's and Japan's cities, and built three of my own on luxuries.

Spent the next 170 years milking. After reading the above posts I see areas to improve. It never occurred to me to get rid of tundra cities and place new ones on fertile land. I also see I wasted my time researching the rest of the tree. Should have gone all entertainment. Hardest choice was figuring how to win the game. Could have gone culture, conquest, space race or domination. Japan pissed me off by trying to make a new city in 2030, so they chose conquest for me....

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Well it's 1750 AD and I just built the Longevity wonder, my score is a bit over 8000 and with 200 turns to go and scoring over 50 points a turn. I had quite alot of global warming before getting Ecology, I'd say I had about 100 squares change due to global warming. I think I'll finish this off in 2050 AD with a conquest victory unless the spearmen kill my modern tanks. This was my second milking and I've learned a few more techniques that will play a part in any future milks, I usually start my tech runs to the modern age too late and that can make a big impact on the score late in the game. I doubt I'll have any trouble hitting 17000 now but I'm not sure how much I'll pass that by.

CB

 

[Fossil]

Regarding GA's

In the past when I've used the GA to build units, I've tended to be rather disappointed with the results; the units built are pretty close to obsolete (or worse, dead) shortly after the end of the GA, so there has been no long-term boost.

My strategy now is to mine as many grassland tiles as I can in the core area during the GA. Those grassland tiles that were producing zero shields will now produce two for the balance of the GA. In certain cases, I'll even take some irrigated tiles and mine them, subseqently re-irrigating them.

Once this task is complete, I have workers hop into the cities and hit the "build" key. Going for massive city upgrades during the GA may provide an advantage that persists for the remainder of the game.

GA in my game

My GA was triggered when I built Sufferage (used a GL) in 1485. I used the GA to build factories and hospitals in the core cities.

I was very satisfied with my GA in this game. The (two) cores got big and massively productive. By the end of the GA, Germany was overwhelmingly powerful.

I did a "MapStat" statistics in 1545, even before all the factories were completed. At that point I had eight cities producing 50 or more shields; twenty cities with 25 or more; thirty-three cities with 12 or more (that's net, after subtracting the waste). Before the GA I think I had three cities that were over 25 shields.

Oh, and I had a total of 106 cities at that point in the game.

I'll write the game up once the milking is complete (jeez, milking is boring).

 

[RufRydyr]

Just finished with 5602 points by a histo. win. Was doing so crappy for so long.

I should have gone to war much, much sooner. Well at least it's experience for the next one. I was trying to get some culture going and should have invested in military. I had a lot of fun with nukes, though! Just need to get going sooner next time....

 

[Fossil]

Originally posted by Cartouche Bee
Well it's 1750 AD and I just built the Longevity wonder, my score is a bit over 8000 and with 200 turns to go and scoring over 50 points a turn.

CB

Cartouche Bee - I find your performance shocking, compared to my game. So, I'm trying to figure it out.

In my game with 1640 tiles under control (one under the domination limit), a 70% luxury tax rate, all eight luxuries under control, a marketplace in every city, and pretty close to the maximum population my tiles support, I am getting 29 points/turn.

Quoting SirPleb:

The scoring works by averaging your per-turn scores throughout the game. For each turn a (hidden) per-turn score is calculated as:

(Territory + HappyCitizens*2 + ContentCitizens + Specialists) * Difficulty

Monarch difficulty = 4

Territory contribution to score (1900 tiles of territory)

In this game, the domination limit is 1641 tiles. Let's say you have 1240 land tiles, 400 coast tiles, and 260 sea tiles, for a total of 1900 tiles. The internal score contribution of territory is 1900 * 4 = 7600.

Happy citizen contribution to score

What's the minimum number of cities required to cover 1900 tiles? Simple division: 1900 / 21 tiles per city = 91 cities. Based on terrain, and the cut-out corners of city area, more cities are required to cover every tile. For simplicity of calculation, let's just round it up to 100 cities.

The significance of this is that the first citizen in a city covers two tiles.

Let's say that every available tile in your territory is occupied by a happy citizen. The happy citizens score contribution is:

(total number of territory tiles - number of city tiles) * 2 * difficulty level.

The maximum contribution to your score provided by happy citizens on this map is:
(1900 - 100) * 2 * 4 = 14400.

Specialists contribution to score

Let's take a gross estimate of specialists. Let's say that every land tile in your territory (again, minus the city tiles) produces sufficent food to support 1 specialist (a 100% grassland map). Coastal and sea tiles have two food per tile - enough for a self-supporting citizen, but not a specialist. This gives us a specialist's contribution to score of:
(1240 land tiles - 100 city tiles) * 1 * 4 = 4560.

Grand total internal score

Adding up the pieces: 7600 + 14400 + 4560 = 26560

The total internal score is then 26,560. The per-turn increase in overall score is then 26,560 divided by the number of turns in the game, that is, 540.
26560 / 540 = 49.18 increase in score per turn.

Given that the map includes a whole lot of mountains, as well as plains, desert, and hills...I'm really curious how you are getting over 50 points per turn. It does not seem possible on this map, even in theory. What do your MapStats show?

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Hi Fossil,

I did receive a few PM's and emails about this today, some have even asked for saves of my game to this point ( regrettably I must decline those requests for a game in progress).

I'm currently running 4 squares shy of domination. However I'm not sure if I would trigger domination because my population is so high that it is listed as -1,000,000,000. If you use SirPleb's calculator I punch in the numbers and see that a score of 8000 in 1750 and going up about 54 or so is about 26414 (very close to your estimate) with a projected final score of 14820. This projection assumes that you are no longer increasing the internal score, but I think I will still increase this internal score although I'm not sure how much. Aeson, Bamspeedy and I have done some posts on this before in the GOTM6 spoiler threads.

CB

 

[Bamspeedy]

Hey Cartouche Bee!

I wonder if you are doing the same thing I'm doing in my HoF game? I think it might be possible to have a higher internal per-turn score on my regent game than Sir Pleb has had in some of his Deity games!!!! But, what I am doing in my game, I don't think anyone would have time for to do in a GOTM. I'm blazing to longevity now that I have most stuff rush-bought. I'm kinda thinking I should have gone for longevity sooner.