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GOTM 83 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Peaster, Dec 10, 2007.

  1. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,950
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Date Notes

    -4000 Tenochtitlan founded. Barracks started. T4L0S6
    -3950 -> Alphabet
    -3750 Alphabet -> Mapmaking
    -3500 T0L4S6
    -3450 Tenochtitlan is size 2.
    -3350 T4L0S6
    -3300 Mapmaking -> Code of Laws
    -3200 Barracks sold. Lighthouse started.
    -2750 Code of Laws -> Ceremonial Burial.
    -2700 Tenochtitlan is size 3.
    -2200 Ceremonial Burial -> Monarchy

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.06M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 114 Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 4; Production: 5MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders:
    Units: 2 Warriors
    Russian: No contact
    Japanese: No contact
    German: No contact
    Persian: No contact
    Carthaginian: No contact
    ?: No contact

    -1750 T3L2S5
    -1700 Tenochtitlan is size 4.
    -1450 Monarchy -> Writing. Monarchy established. T1L2S7
    -1200 Lighthouse built.
    -1050 T1L3S6
    -1000 Tenochtitlan is size 5. Writing -> Bronze Working. T0L3S7

    Status at -1000
    Population: 0.15M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 139 Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 6; Production: 5MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse
    Units: 2 Warriors
    Russian: No contact
    Japanese: No contact
    German: No contact
    Persian: No contact
    Carthaginian: No contact
    Mongol: No contact

    -0975 T1L2S7
    -0950 Trireme produced.
    -0750 Bronze Working -> Currency.
    -0725 Library built.
    -0650 T1L3S6
    -0625 Tenochtitlan is size 6. Newly built diplomat sets sail. Tenochtitlan is size 6. T0L4S6
    -0550 Currency -> Trade. My power is supreme.
    -0375 T1L3S6
    -0350 Marketplace built.
    -0325 Carthaginians (2) show off bridge building! Trade -> Mysticism.
    Trade -> German (6) -> Literacy, peace, no alliance. My power is down to Strong.
    Literacy, Trade -> Persian (0) -> Mysticism, peace.
    -0300 -> Philosophy. Power is Mighty. Mysticism -> Carthaginian (3) -> Construction. T7L3S0
    -0250 Construction -> Mongol (2) -> Wheel, peace.
    -0150 T5L5S0
    -0125 Temple built. Tenochtitlan celebrates. T7L3S0
    -0075 Hides caravan to Karakorum establishes the first trade route for 203. T4L3S3
    -0050 Philosophy -> Engineering -> Pottery. Philosophy, Construction -> German (5) -> Republic, Pottery. Revolution started. T2L6S2
    -0025 Republic established. Warrior disbanded. T7L3S0
    +0001 Tenochtitlan celebrates.

    Status at +0001
    Population: 0.21M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D1F; Government: Republic
    Gold: 120 Cost per turn: 3; Total advances: 17; Production: 5MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse
    Units: 1 Warrior, 1 Trireme, 1 diplomat, 2 Caravans
    Russian: No embassy
    Japanese: No embassy
    German: No embassy
    Persian: No embassy
    Carthaginian: No embassy
    Mongol: No embassy
     
  2. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,950
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    +0020 Tenochtitlan is size 7 and unable to continue celebration. T8L2S0
    +0120 Philosophy, Republic, Pottery -> Mongol (3)
    +0140 Accepted German offer of 100g to ally with them against Russians. They also slipped me Banking.
    +0160 Tenochtitlan is size 8. Hides to Berlin for 228 establishes the second route. T1L2S7
    +0180 -> Seafaring.
    +0220 Seafaring -> Medicine. Hides to Carthage for 373 establishes the third route.
    +0240 Harbor built. T0L3S7
    +0260 Tenochtitlan celebrates.
    +0280 Tenochtitlan is size 9. Aqueduct built. T1L2S7
    +0300 Medicine -> Sanitation.
    +0320 Turned down Persian offer of alliance against Mongols.
    +0340 Seafaring, Monarchy -> Mongol (3). Seafaring -> German (5) -> Masonry, 0g.
    +0420 Colossus built with 4 caravans.
    +0480 Turned down Mongol offer of alliance against Persians.
    +0500 Tenochtitlan is size 10. T4L3S3

    Status at +0500
    Population: 0.55M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D3F; Government: Republic
    Gold: 79; Cost per turn: 6; Total advances: 21; Production: 5MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Colossus
    Units: 1 Warrior, 1 Trireme, 1 diplomat, 3 Caravans
    Russian: No embassy; War with Germans and me
    Japanese: No embassy
    German: No embassy; Allied with me
    Persian: No embassy
    Carthaginian: No embassy
    Mongol: No embassy

    +0520 Tenochtitlan celebrates. Sanitation -> Math. T7L3S0
    +0540 Tenochtitlan is size 11. T6L2S2
    +0580 Hides to Carthage for 429. T3L2S5
    +0640 Math -> University
    +0780 Temple sold. T8L0S2
    +0800 Tenochtitlan is size 12. Shakespeare built. T8L2S0
    +0820 Salt to Moscow for 448. T7L2S1
    +0840 University -> Astronomy. Sewer built. Tenochtitlan is size 13. Hides to Karakorum for 466. T2L0S8
    +0880 Astronomy -> Theory of Gravity. University built. T6L3S1
    +0900 Tenochtitlan celebrates
    +0920 Tenochtitlan is size 14
    +0940 Tenochtitlan is size 15
    +0960 Tenochtitlan is size 16
    +0980 Tenochtitlan is size 17.
    +1000 Tenochtitlan is size 18.

    Status at +1000
    Population: 1.71M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D3F; Government: Republic
    Gold: 1001; Cost per turn: 10; Total advances: 25; Production: 5MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Colossus, Shakespeare
    Units: 1 Warrior, 2 Trireme, 1 diplomat, 3 Caravans
    Russian: No embassy; War with Germans and me
    Japanese: No embassy
    German: No embassy; Allied with me
    Persian: No embassy
    Carthaginian: No embassy
    Mongol: No embassy

    +1020 Tenochtitlan is size 19.
    +1040 Tenochtitlan is size 20. Hides to Berlin for 485. Sanitation -> German (4). Math, Sanitation, Banking, University -> Mongol (5). Construction, Sanitation -> Persian (1).
    +1060 Tenochtitlan is size 21 and unable to celebrate any further. T8L0S2
    +1080 Theory of Gravity -> Chemistry.
    +1220 Hides to Carthage for 486.
    +1240 Chemistry -> Economics. Hides to Carthage for 504.
    +1320 Economics -> Navigation. Hides to Carthage for 522. T5L0S5
    +1360 Navigation -> Physics. Tenochtitlan is size 22. Hides to Carthage for 560. T8L0S2
    +1460 Physics -> Atomic Theory.

    Status at +1500
    Population: 2.53M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D3F; Government: Republic
    Gold: 5309; Cost per turn: 10; Total advances: 30; Production: 5MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Colossus, Shakespeare
    Units: 1 Warrior, 2 Trireme, 1 diplomat, 10 Caravans
    Russian: No embassy; War with Germans and me
    Japanese: No embassy
    German: No embassy; Allied with me
    Persian: No embassy
    Carthaginian: No embassy
    Mongol: No embassy
     
  3. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    turn 62: 975BC Trade->Map Making (117 beakers)
    turn 63: 950BC -
    turn 64: 925BC -
    turn 65: 900BC -
    turn 66: 875BC first caravan build
    turn 67: 850BC -
    turn 68: 825BC -
    turn 69: 800BC caravan build
    turn 70: 775BC Map Making->Banking (150 beakers) / 50t-0s-50l
    turn 71: 750BC >0,2M (size 6)
    turn 72: 725BC caravan build
    turn 73: 700BC -
    turn 74: 675BC -
    turn 75: 650BC -
    turn 76: 625BC caravan build / start building trireme
    turn 77: 600BC -
    turn 78: 575BC -
    turn 79: 550BC -
    turn 80: 525BC trireme build/ start with Lighthouse
    turn 81: 500BC Lighthouse build / start with caravan for trade
    turn 82: 475BC -
    turn 83: 450BC -
    turn 84: 425BC -
    turn 85: 400BC -
    turn 86: 375BC dye caravan build
    turn 87: 350BC -
    turn 88: 325BC -
    turn 89: 300BC -
    turn 90: 275BC -
    turn 91: 250BC first caravan delivered in Persepolis (208g)
    turn 92: 225BC Banking->Ceremonial Burial (154 beakers)/ caravan build
    turn 93: 200BC -
    turn 94: 175BC caravan
    turn 95: 150BC size 7
    turn 96: 125BC caravan
    turn 97: 100BC -
    turn 98: 75BC hides caravan delivered 132g+132g
    turn 99: 50BC caravan
    turn 100: 25BC -
    turn 101: 1AD caravan

    Status at +0001
    Population: 0,28M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 2D0F; Government: Republic
    Money: 179 gold; Cost per turn: 1; Total advances: 10; Production: 5MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse
    Units: 1 Trireme, 3 caravans

    turn 102: 20AD -
    turn 103: 40AD -
    turn 104: 60AD Marco Polo's Embassy build / got Ceremonial Burial and Mysticism from Russians
    turn 105: 80AD -
    turn 106: 100AD ->Philosophy
    turn 107: 120AD Philosophy->Medicine->Pottery (Pottery from Mongols)
    turn 108: 140AD ->Seafaring (256 beakers)
    turn 109: 160AD car 144 gold
    turn 110: 180AD -
    turn 111: 200AD -
    turn 112: 220AD Seafaring->Masonry (272 beakers) (got Masonry, Construction, The Wheel)
    turn 113: 240AD ->Engineering
    turn 114: 260AD -
    turn 115: 280AD -
    turn 116: 300AD car 360g+360g
    turn 117: 320AD Engineering->Sanitation
    turn 118: 340AD -
    turn 119: 360AD -
    turn 120: 380AD -
    turn 121: 400AD -
    turn 122: 420AD -
    turn 123: 440AD -
    turn 124: 460AD car 180g+180g
    turn 125: 480AD car 180g+180g
    turn 126: 500AD Sanitation->Mathematics (got Mathematics)

    Status at +0500
    Population: 0,28M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 3D0F; Government: Republic
    Money: 593 gold; Cost per turn: 1; Total advances: 22; Production: 5MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco Polo
    Units: 3 Trireme, 2 caravans
     
  4. CharlieChuck

    CharlieChuck Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    305
    Location:
    england
    I've just got to 1900's with about 6 techs left to discover before spaceflight. All my cities are size 20-24. It's going to take a while to finish though due to christmas and I've just got a new PC (windows vista) so I'll have to reinstall Civ2, then transfer game files over etc.

    I'll try building the largest spaceship and all the remaining wonders to get my score up.
     
  5. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    turn 127: 520AD ->Astronomy / car 156g+156g
    turn 128: 540AD -
    turn 129: 560AD -
    turn 130: 580AD -
    turn 131: 600AD -
    turn 132: 620AD car 344g
    turn 133: 640AD Shakespeare's Theatre build / Astronomy->University / car 172g
    turn 134: 660AD car 192g
    turn 135: 680AD -
    turn 136: 700AD car 192g
    turn 137: 720AD University->Theory of Gravity
    turn 138: 740AD car 192g
    turn 139: 760AD Harbor
    turn 140: 780AD >0,3M (size 8)
    turn 141: 800AD Aquaduct / >0,4M (size 9)
    turn 142: 820AD car 204g
    turn 143: 840AD -
    turn 144: 860AD >0,5M (size 10)
    turn 145: 880AD >0,6M (size 11)
    turn 146: 900AD Sewer System / >0,7M (size 12) / car 236g
    turn 147: 920AD Theory of Gravity->Navigation / >0,9M (size 13) / car 248g / got Bridge Building and Iron Working
    turn 148: 940AD >1M (size 14)
    turn 149: 960AD size 15
    turn 150: 980AD University / car 280g+280g / size 16
    turn 151: 1000AD Navigation->Physics / size 17

    Status at +1000
    Population: 1,53M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 3D0F; Government: Republic
    Money: 474 gold; Cost per turn: 10; Total advances: 28; Production: 5MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco Polo, Shakespeare's
    Units: 3 Trireme, 2 caravans

    turn 152: 1020AD size 18
    turn 153: 1040AD size 19
    turn 154: 1060AD Bank / >2M (size 20)
    turn 155: 1080AD car 162g+162g (size 21)
    turn 156: 1100AD Colosseum
    turn 157: 1120AD -
    turn 158: 1140AD Physics->Magnetism
    turn 159: 1160AD 162g+162g
    turn 160: 1180AD Hanging Gardens
    turn 161: 1200AD -
    turn 162: 1220AD size 22
    turn 163: 1240AD car 324g+162g / size 23
    turn 164: 1260AD >3M (size 24)
    turn 165: 1280AD size 25
    turn 166: 1300AD Colossus
    turn 167: 1320AD -
    turn 168: 1340AD Invention->Democracy
    turn 169: 1360AD 200g
    turn 170: 1380AD -
    turn 171: 1400AD 200g
    turn 172: 1420AD Democracy->Chemistry / DEMOCRACY / got Chemistry
    turn 173: 1440AD ->Steam Engine
    turn 174: 1460AD 544g
    turn 175: 1480AD Copernicus Observatory / Steam Engine->Railroad
    turn 176: 1500AD -

    Status at +1500
    Population: 3,25M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 3D0F; Government: Democracy
    Money: 474 gold; Cost per turn: 17; Total advances: 36; Production: 5MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco Polo, Shakespeare's, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Copernicus
    Units: 3 Galleons, 0 caravans
     
  6. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    turn 177: 1510AD -
    turn 178: 1520AD -
    turn 179: 1530AD -
    turn 180: 1540AD -
    turn 181: 1550AD Isaac Newton / Railroad->Industrialization
    turn 182: 1560AD -
    turn 183: 1570AD Industrialization->Economics
    turn 184: 1580AD -
    turn 185: 1590AD Factory / Economics->Corporation
    turn 186: 1600AD -
    turn 187: 1610AD Corporation->Refining / 267g
    turn 188: 1620AD -
    turn 189: 1630AD Refining->Gunpowder (got Gunpowder)
    turn 190: 1640AD ->Explosives / 282g
    turn 191: 1650AD Explosives->Combustion / 200g
    turn 192: 1660AD -
    turn 193: 1670AD Combustion->Metallurgy / 432g
    turn 194: 1680AD Metallurgy->Electricity
    turn 195: 1690AD 216g
    turn 196: 1700AD Electricity->Steel
    turn 197: 1710AD -
    turn 198: 1720AD Steel->Automobile
    turn 199: 1730AD 338g
    turn 200: 1740AD Automobile->Conscription
    turn 201: 1750AD Superhighways / 429g / got Communism and Chivalry
    turn 202: 1752AD Conscription->Leadership
    turn 203: 1754AD 525g
    turn 204: 1756AD Leadership->Tactics / 525g
    turn 205: 1758AD -
    turn 206: 1760AD United Nations / Tactics->Machine Tools
    turn 207: 1762AD -
    turn 208: 1764AD Machine Tools->Electronics
    turn 209: 1766AD -
    turn 210: 1768AD Electronics->Miniaturization
    turn 211: 1770AD -
    turn 212: 1772AD Miniaturization->Mass Production
    turn 213: 1774AD Offshore Platform
    turn 214: 1776AD Mass Production->Computers
    turn 215: 1778AD -
    turn 216: 1780AD Computers->Flight
    turn 217: 1782AD Research Lab / got Atomic Theory
    turn 218: 1784AD Flight->Radio
    turn 219: 1786AD -
    turn 220: 1788AD -
    turn 221: 1790AD Radio->Advanced Flight
    turn 222: 1792AD Airport
    turn 223: 1794AD Advanced Flight->Rocketry
    turn 224: 1796AD -
    turn 225: 1798AD Rocketry->Space Flight
    turn 226: 1800AD -
    turn 227: 1802AD Space Flight->Mobile Warfare (got Mobile Warfare)
    turn 228: 1804AD ->Robotics
    turn 229: 1806AD Robotics->Plastics
    turn 230: 1808AD Darwin's Voyage / Plastics->Nuclear Fission->Nuclear Power
    turn 231: 1810AD -
    turn 232: 1812AD -
    turn 233: 1814AD Manufacturing Plant
    turn 234: 1816AD -
    turn 235: 1818AD Nuclear Power->Recycling
    turn 236: 1820AD -
    turn 237: 1822AD -
    turn 238: 1824AD Recycling->Environmentalism
    turn 239: 1826AD -
    turn 240: 1828AD -
    turn 241: 1830AD Apollo Program / Environmentalism->The Laser
    turn 242: 1832AD -
    turn 243: 1834AD Nuclear Plant
    turn 244: 1836AD -
    turn 246: 1838AD -
    turn 248: 1840AD start building spaceship
    turn 250: 1842AD -
    turn 251: 1844AD The Laser->Superconductor
    turn 252: 1846AD -
    turn 253: 1848AD -
    turn 254: 1850AD -
    turn 255: 1851AD -
    turn 256: 1852AD -
    turn 257: 1853AD 1325g
    turn 258: 1854AD Superconductor->Fusion Power
    turn 259: 1855AD -
    turn 260: 1856AD -
    turn 261: 1857AD -
    turn 262: 1858AD -
    turn 263: 1859AD -
    turn 264: 1860AD -
    turn 265: 1861AD -
    turn 266: 1862AD -
    turn 267: 1863AD -
    turn 268: 1864AD Fusion Power->FT1
    turn 269: 1865AD -
    turn 270: 1866AD -
    turn 271: 1867AD -
    turn 272: 1868AD -
    turn 273: 1869AD -
    turn 274: 1870AD -
    turn 275: 1871AD -
    turn 276: 1872AD -
    turn 277: 1873AD -
    turn 278: 1874AD -
    turn 279: 1875AD -
    turn 280: 1876AD -
    turn 281: 1877AD -
    turn 282: 1878AD -
    turn 283: 1879AD -
    turn 284: 1880AD LAUNCH
    turn 285: 1881AD -
    turn 286: 1882AD FT1->FT2
    turn 287: 1883AD -
    turn 288: 1884AD FT2->FT3
    turn 289: 1885AD -
    turn 290: 1886AD -
    turn 291: 1887AD FT3->FT4
    turn 292: 1888AD -
    turn 293: 1889AD FT4->FT5
    turn 294: 1890AD -
    turn 295: 1891AD FT5->FT6
    turn 296: 1892AD -
    turn 297: 1893AD FT6->FT7
    turn 298: 1894AD -

    LANDED in 1895

    I made the mistake not to notice that all deliveries were to the germans.This caused that I blocked my freights and couldn't use them in the rest of the game. I could have finished much earlier if I did not make that mistake. For my first OCC on Deity I may not complain much. Of course it was easier then normal because the other civs could only have one city.
     
  7. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    Horrible game in 2007 very poorly planned out. Played and logged this again in 2019 with much more experience and with far superior results : ).
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  8. grigor

    grigor Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    354
    I am so sorry not to be able to play this map - it reminds me of when I set up a 1-square island on the world map around where I judged Easter Island to be and tried to play it straight (no whale) - big wipeout even by the AI!!

    Big imposing statues didn't help.
     
  9. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    Edit in 2019: This post represents an inexperienced and inefficient game played in 2007 with a very late conquest year of about 1750 ad before i learned how to be a much more effective one city player : ).

    By contrast and for comparison the following link (somewhere on the page) represents a 2019 log of the same game with a 980 ad conquest : https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gotm-83-spoiler.254077/page-3.

    2007 game:

    After a less than speedy performance in my first attempt, i was thinking how i would play this game differently for a faster conquest. With such a tiny map, i decided to skip pilo, university, medicine, sanitation (and econ) this time around and go for the kill with just Colossus, HG, Lighthouse and Copernies (skipping king rick's, shakespeare's, University and Stock Exchange) in a size 12 city as compared to an unnecessary size 25 city in game 1.

    In both games the ultimate tech goal was Steam Engine, but this game shaved off 5 techs, 2 wonders and 2 buildings (and 11 citizens). Still not a perfect game, but this brought a much faster conquest than the first try. As well, knowing the map knocked off at least 3-5 extra turns. Could maybe have done this without banking/bank, but otherwise (aside from my beloved Republic) i believe all of my techs were necessary in the path to Steam.

    I logged some of the key years but was not very diligent.

    Tech path:

    Alpha, writing, ceremonial, code, Lit, [Republic 1400bc, 1300 revolt]
    Myst
    Bronze, Currency (reached in 775bc), [Trade in 625bc]
    (Colossus 450bc)
    Pottery in 350bc (HG about 325)
    Map Making in about 460ad? (Lamp about 480)
    Masonry, Construction (about 600ad)
    Seafaring about 680ad
    Banking
    Astronomy (1420ad) (Copernies 1440)
    Horse (1440ad trade aided), wheel, Navi, engineering, physics, invention, [Steam Engine in 1630ad]

    Growth:

    size 4 in 1250,
    50% lux brings us to size 5 in 1150,
    myst in 1050 allows us to reach size 6 in 975bc and size 7 in 950.
    HG in about 320ad, size 8 about 340ad
    Aquaduct about 620ad then size 9 by 640 or 660
    Harbor about 760ad, then size 10,11,12 by 800, 820, 840ad.

    Summary of Wonders:

    Colossus about 450bc
    HG 320ad
    Lamp about 480ad?
    Copernies (1440ad)
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  10. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    Edit in 2019: This post represents an inexperienced and inefficient game played in 2007 with a very late conquest year of about 1550 ad before i learned how to be a much more effective one city player : ).

    By contrast and for comparison the following link (somewhere on the page) represents a 2019 log of the same game with a 980 ad conquest :https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gotm-83-spoiler.254077/page-3.

    2007 game: This time i played it much like game 2, but skipped HG and utilized the renewable hide trade from a size 7 city a lot more averaging about 200 per trade... and was able to shave a full 2 centuries off the conquest year. Interesting to note, aside from the size of the foreign city, Berlin was size 8 while the others were mostly size 6's, it didn't seem to matter how far away the city was, nor whether the commodity was in demand. Trades to Berlin brought about 240 and trades to the 6's brought about 200.

    I probably made about a dozen trades until being forced to choose navigation (or invention) at which point i finished that tech with caravans and then let copernies take over the science rush for invention, physics and Steam. This quickie game took me about 1 hour and 45 minutes.

    Wonders:

    Colossus 25bc
    Lamp: about 380ad
    Copernie's: 1060ad (much much earlier than last game)

    Key Techs:

    Republic again in 1250bc
    Astronomy: 1040ad
    Steam Engine: 1300ad

    It would be interesting to see if the game would end faster with a size 8 city :p... though i suspect not since construction and seafaring are both in the path to steam anyway.

    Another test i'd like to try would be another size 12 with marcos to see what results that would bring... though i don't have much experience exploiting the ai to the fullest extent... ie: i've rarely seen an ai civ willing to trade maps, 98% of the time their response has been "we have no need for your useless maps".

    Has anybody so far been able to finish faster than 1550ad?

    ps: apologies for adding the link before, i didn't know that was against the rules :) .

    Sun Tzu

    Edit: played and logged this map again 15 years later in 2019 with far better results. Of course Marcos and trade caravans is absolutely key.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  11. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,295
    To get a map:

    1) Research mapmaking.
    2) Give techs to the AI, until they have mapmaking and their attitude is Worshipful.
    3) Suggest a map trade.

    If you get this far, they will always say yes. Usually, you can even stop at "Cordial".
     
  12. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    I notice in my games that even when the ai is cordial they won't trade maps in the early game (first 100 turns). Only when I have Marco Polo I can get their maps...so I think having an embassy (with diplomat) will also do the trick.
     
  13. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    Very nice. Thank you both for the good information :) And if i might be so bold, to play the strongest game possible vs. the ai, to make your tech cheaper to research, you generally gift purple most of what you have?
     
  14. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    one more quick question about the4 ai, how best to set up the most effective system for extorting gold?
     
  15. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,950
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    It has been a while since you played grigor. Any plans to come back?
     
  16. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,950
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    You should gift your key civ, which often is purple, but not always. If you are playing OCC, for example, your key civ will be different.
    There are 2 ways to get gold. One is from allies through a gift request, the other is from non-allies through demanding tribute. The first one rarely works if you are higher in power ratings than your ally. The second one is not even an option in Republic and democracy and works when they see you as a threat. I do not know if it is fully understood how the AI assesses that, but sharing a land mass with the AI and having troops on their land mass are definitely factors.
     
  17. grigor

    grigor Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    354
    Civ II is not playable on an Intel Mac computer.
     
  18. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Messages:
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    Zenon did a study of this in a thread at Apolyton. IIRC you need an attack factor total which exceeds the AI's total number of units there. Both totals are just for the land mass of the AI capital. For example, two ele's (attack = 4+4) can intimidate 7 AI musketeers. I think this is a useful rule of thumb, at least for the first demand. But I may be forgetting other factors, like reputation or AI wealth.

    Another method is to get into a war with the AI, and insist on gold for a cease fire and/or peace. I don't know the exact "rule" for when that works,
    but it seems you have to intimidate the AI, as in Zenon's discovery. I probably get as much gold that way as from tribute.

    Magic: I've heard that Worshipful + mapmaking always leads to a map trade [if the AI will talk], and that's always worked for me. If someone has an example where that fails, please share it - that would change Civ2 folklore! I don't think MPE is a factor. But I usually build it before AI contact, so I can't be 100% sure that it's not helping.
     
  19. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    +1520 Mongols show off Chivalry.
    +1530 King Richard built with 4 caravans and 400g. 2 caravans and 600g contributed towards Copernicus.
    +1540 Hides to Carthage for 578. Last warrior disbanded. My capital is now only protected by a diplomat and 2 caravans.
    +1550 Copernicus built. Atomic Theory -> Invention. Hides to Carthage for 597. T4L0S6
    +1560 Invention -> Steam Engine. Salt to Moscow for 352.
    +1580 Steam Engine -> Democracy. Navigation, Invention, Physics -> Carthaginian (3) -> Iron Working. T7L0S3
    +1600 Hides to Carthage for 700.
    +1610 Democracy -> Gunpowder. T3L0S7
    +1640 Gunpowder -> Metallurgy. T2L0S8
    +1650 Salt to Moscow for 352. Spent a diplomat to find out that Moscow is defended by 2 warriors, a Phalanx, and a legion. There is no barracks, so they are presumably not vets. My vet Ironclads (thank you Lighthouse!) take each defender out with one shot incurring minimal damage despite the coastal fortress. I brought in 3 Ironclads and only used 2. Even one may have been sufficient. Moscow taken for 915g and Bridge Building. Coastal Fortress survives the attack! Russian civilization destroyed. Temple rushed in Moscow. Approached Hostile Japanese hoping they might declare war. But they did not. Gumpowder -> Mongol (5)
    +1660 Metallurgy -> Conscription.
    +1670 Hanging Gardens rushed in Moscow with 1 caravan and 600g.
    +1680 Hanging Gardens built. Moscow celebrates.
    +1690 Conscription -> Explosives. Moscow grows to size 5. Revolution started. T2L6S2. Revolution started. Vet Ironclads attack Persepolis. One kills a Phalanx and gets heavily wounded. The other kills a phalanx and dies in the subsequent attack.
    +1700 Monarchy established. T0L3S7. Fresh Ironclad kills Persian Phalanx and warrior. Wounded Ironclad kills Persian Warrior.
    +1710 Both cities celebrate. T1L2S7. Fresh Ironclad kills Persian caravan and trireme. Persepolis captured for 320 and Polytheism. Persian civilization destroyed. 1000g and 2 caravans contributed towards Newton.
    +1720 Wine from Moscow to Carthage for 200.
    +1730 Newton built. Explosives -> Monotheism. Ironclad kills Japanese Archer and Legion. Kyoto captured for 509g, Horseback riding, barracks, and coastal fortress. Japanese civilization destroyed. Undemanded Hides from Tenochtitlan to Carthage for 382.
    +1740 Navigation, Conscription, Metallurgy, Physics -> Mongol (5) -> Feudalism. Germans dissolved alliance over my refusal to give them invention. 1096g contributed towards Magellan.
    +1750 Monotheism -> Theology.

    Status at +1750
    Population: 2.74M; Cities: 4; Trade routes: 3D3F; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 2977; Cost per turn: 30; Total advances: 44; Production: 38MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Shakespeare, King Richard, Copernicus, Newton
    Units: 1 Phalanx, 1 Musketeer, 1 Rifleman, 2 Trireme, 1 Caravel, 5 Ironclad, 1 Caravan
    Russian: Destroyed by me
    Japanese: Destroyed by me
    German: No embassy
    Persian: Destroyed by me
    Carthaginian: No embassy
    Mongol: No embassy
     
  20. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    +1752 Silk from size 2 Kyoto to Berlin for 198. All but Steam Engine to Mongols.
    +1754 Theology -> Magnetism. Switched from Magellan to Bach. 3 Ironclads attack Carthage and manage to kill a vet Phalanx, a musketeer, 2 warriors, a settler, and a caravel. Carthage captured for 1808g, Warrior Code, and marketplace. Carthaginian civilization destroyed.
    +1756 Bach built. Barracks sold after production of 4 vet Riflemen.
    +1760 Magnetism -> Electricity.
    +1766 Leo built. Electricity -> Railroad. A single Destroyer kills 2 Phalanx defending Berlin which is then captured for 858g, and coastal fortress. German civilization destroyed.
    +1768 Magellan built. Coal from size 3 Persepolis to Karakorum for 180.
    +1770 Railroad -> Industrialization. Revolution started. T2L6S2
    +1772 Democracy established. T2L2S6. Silk from size 4 Persepolis to Karakorum for 184.
    +1774 All cities except Berlin celebrate. Mongol embassy established. Railroad, Magnetism -> Mongol.
    +1776 Michelangelo built. Industrialization -> Corporation. Industrialization -> Mongol. T1L3S6 to continue celebrations.
    +1780 Corporation -> Steel. Steam Engine -> Mongol. Tenochtitlan maxes out at size 25. Domestic deliveries: 120+242. All cities have 3 trade routes except Kyoto. T2L3S5
    +1782 Berlin joins celebration.
    +1784 Steel -> Refining
    +1788 Refining -> Combustion
    +1792 Combustion -> Automobile. Undemanded domestic Oil for 228.
    +1794 2 Coastal fortresses sold to raise cash.
    +1796 Automobile -> Electronics.
    +1800 Electronics -> Mass production.

    Status at +1800
    Population: 8.44M; Cities: 6; Trade routes: 14D3F; Government: Democracy
    Gold: 28; Cost per turn: 63; Total advances: 56; Production: 30MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Shakespeare, King Richard, Copernicus, Magellan, Michelangelo, Newton, Bach, Leo
    Units: 6 Riflemen, 2 Destroyers, 3 Transport
    Russian: Destroyed by me
    Japanese: Destroyed by me
    German: Destroyed by me
    Persian: Destroyed by me
    Carthaginian: Destroyed by me
    Mongol: 1 city, 49 tech, 1951g
     

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