Gotm 92
- Thread starter Duke of Marlbrough
- Start date
LordValuna
High Lord
Thanks DoM for posting game under tough circumstances.
You gave us a tough nut to crack this month. As I predicted its a diety game.
I believe the level of Barbarian Activity to be Raging Hordes (+25 score).
You gave us a tough nut to crack this month. As I predicted its a diety game.
I believe the level of Barbarian Activity to be Raging Hordes (+25 score).
CharlieChuck
Prince
Deity & extra large map & 6 civs means a landing game for me.
Banach
Warlord
Sweet, I love it when more people do landing - gives me some motivation. I'll try to do better than last month when I fumbled things badly and didn't land until the 1500s. I look forward to some friendly competition.
LordValuna
High Lord
DoM
Are Restarts on or off?
on would make conquest pretty hard
Are Restarts on or off?
on would make conquest pretty hard
Restarts are on. Barbs destroyed indians in my game, and mongols were later on top 5 list. Delhi, in fact, was top city for a while. Barbs also got Athens, but that wasn't a part of your question...
LordValuna
High Lord
Prof, Barbs also destroyed India here, do you suppose DoM has seeded the map with groups of marauding Barbarians?
Its possible, I suppose. I got attacked by two different ships of marauders at different times. I don't know enough about how barbarians travel and disappear to know if it is plausible that barbs were set around map and were therefore able to get me twice or if I just had bad luck from random barbs. Given the fact that restarts are on, I can see little reason to have barbs attack the Indians, except, perhaps, to set the key civ farther behind than it would otherwise be.
Seems unlikely. I don't think this is possible except in scenario mode [and I assume this game is not in scenario mode, since nobody has mentioned it]. This is probably mostly luck, plus the Raging Hordes setting.
Pls be careful not to include "spoiler info" in this thread. I don't think anyone has really gone too far yet though.
Pls be careful not to include "spoiler info" in this thread. I don't think anyone has really gone too far yet though.
Still not up and running fully, but, games would be due Oct 18th.
URUWASHI
Warlord
As usual, I am going for the missing CIV.....I will get them back in the game.
I played a few turns, and I know one CIV is missing....
What difference will it make ???...have no idea....
But I like all 7 Civs at this level.
I played a few turns, and I know one CIV is missing....
What difference will it make ???...have no idea....
But I like all 7 Civs at this level.
WildPony
Warlord
This is the 2nd strait month of being inconvenienced by 2 red archers dropped immediately next to my cap (in 3600) before it was even possible to defend with anything but a warrior.
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No. It is the place where you are told that it is time for you to play without a capital. I lost my capital to the barbarians, didn't have masonry, and didn't get it in my next tech selection (I traded for it a little later). Losing your capital is quite a setback, but it you can reduce the gap the longer you play because exponential growth is limited by easy expansion room. Play the game out (if you still have time) and see how you do. Or, if the game is completely unsalvageable, hope for better luck next month. In any case, the last GOTM didn't have raging hordes, so you were really unlucky. When you play all out expansionist, there is some risk involved, and if you get caught you should take the lump and continue the game. Remember, it is entirely possible to save yourself from barb attack, because barbs can't win attacking a defended capital when it is your only city. To be safe from barbs, you would just build and improve one city until you get a decent attack unit and build a couple. Less risk, but less reward.
WildPony
Warlord
You brought forth interesting insights. What i hear u saying is that a single warrior inside the cap would have been able to withstand the attack of two archers (or even a hundred archers) if the cap was my only city? This i did not know.
I don't have much experience vs. raging hordes (instead my experience is with a "raging hord" of games facing the human enemy with villages only), but i really thought i had a lot more time to defend against them.
Thanks for the feedback
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URUWASHI
Warlord
I think Garfiled is correct.
I usually have a Warrior defending my Capital, and I have to admit that a single warrior never loses to Barbarian Archers, in this case.
If you are playing Deity Level have AT LEAST a Warrior fortified.
In general I do research Bronze Work first because ita path to trade.
My MO is very simple, after you built your Capital, built at LEAST a Defending unit, though I prefer Phalnxes.
I have lost many games in the long run against the AI, but I never lost my Capital to the Barbarians.
Food for though.....GEM
In my game ( # 92 ) , Barbarians took UR ( from repsawning Green ),with Great Library...NOW I have seen Barbarians researching Masonry and Alphabet..but they never got anything from Great Library...!!
I usually have a Warrior defending my Capital, and I have to admit that a single warrior never loses to Barbarian Archers, in this case.
If you are playing Deity Level have AT LEAST a Warrior fortified.
In general I do research Bronze Work first because ita path to trade.
My MO is very simple, after you built your Capital, built at LEAST a Defending unit, though I prefer Phalnxes.
I have lost many games in the long run against the AI, but I never lost my Capital to the Barbarians.
Food for though.....GEM
In my game ( # 92 ) , Barbarians took UR ( from repsawning Green ),with Great Library...NOW I have seen Barbarians researching Masonry and Alphabet..but they never got anything from Great Library...!!
WildPony
Warlord
... but the warrior only protects the cap against 2 red archers if it is your only city, true? And once you have more than one city, can a single phalanx in the grass, even if it's a vet, reliably withstand the attack of 2 barbarian archers, or especially 2 barbarian legions? If so, bronze first on this setting makes a lot of sense. In my 2nd attempt, i played it very carefully and researched warrior code first so i could have something to hit them with.
A warrior is only guaranteed to win if the capital is your only city. A quick test found that a fortified warrior was able to survive 3 barb archers, but was killed by a fourth. I only did the test once, however, so the results are not especially reliable except that the defended capital can be captured. (I was pretty sure that my capital was defended in the last GOTM, but I tested to make sure) Barbs get an attack bonus of, IIRC, 50% on deity when attacking the human. A warrior fortified and in a city will get 2 plus 50% bonuses (fortified and defending city bonuses) and will therefore defend at 2, while a phalanx will defend at four. An archer should attack at 4.5. Unless the capital still gets a defence bonus of some kind, I wouldn't rely on phalanxes for defence. There are a couple of options, however, but they require off path techs, which slow down the early game and are thus usually ignored.
Option 1: Warrior Code. You need an off path tech on the way to monarchy anyway, and I think warror code could be used. The main disadvantage is that archers have only one move. Also, Warrior code isn't even on any of the early tech paths.
Option 2: Polytheism. You need two off path techs for this one: horseback riding and Polytheism. Horsback riding won't cover it because horsemen only have an attack of 2 and thus can't be relied on to beat an archer. Polytheism has the advantage of being on path to Monotheism, a reasonably early goal. Elephants, however, cost 40 shields, the same as a settler.
Option 3: The Wheel. This also requires an off path tech, but the wheel is no more on path than is Warrior Code. Chariots, however, are 10 shields cheaper than elephants but can be relied upon to beat barb archers.
Option 4: Writing. Writing is quite useful and is on path to philosophy, generally the goal after Monarchy and Trade, and is on path to Republic if you want to go that way. Diplomats can bribe the barbs, but the disadvantage is that you need coins to bribe an archer (to attack the second archer and barb leader).
Usually early barbs don't appear with more than a couple or three units. Option 3 is probably the worst in my opinion. The others have merits and costs. Option 4 requires that you have enough coins and therefore requires a fortunate hut and no rushing of settlers.
Option 1: Warrior Code. You need an off path tech on the way to monarchy anyway, and I think warror code could be used. The main disadvantage is that archers have only one move. Also, Warrior code isn't even on any of the early tech paths.
Option 2: Polytheism. You need two off path techs for this one: horseback riding and Polytheism. Horsback riding won't cover it because horsemen only have an attack of 2 and thus can't be relied on to beat an archer. Polytheism has the advantage of being on path to Monotheism, a reasonably early goal. Elephants, however, cost 40 shields, the same as a settler.
Option 3: The Wheel. This also requires an off path tech, but the wheel is no more on path than is Warrior Code. Chariots, however, are 10 shields cheaper than elephants but can be relied upon to beat barb archers.
Option 4: Writing. Writing is quite useful and is on path to philosophy, generally the goal after Monarchy and Trade, and is on path to Republic if you want to go that way. Diplomats can bribe the barbs, but the disadvantage is that you need coins to bribe an archer (to attack the second archer and barb leader).
Usually early barbs don't appear with more than a couple or three units. Option 3 is probably the worst in my opinion. The others have merits and costs. Option 4 requires that you have enough coins and therefore requires a fortunate hut and no rushing of settlers.
WildPony
Warlord
Thanks for the really good post Prof. Garfield. My follow up questions and comments...
"A warrior fortified and in a city will get 2 plus 50% bonuses (fortified and defending city bonuses) and will therefore defend at 2"
Wow, this is my first time hearing this. Every city defender even when u have 2 or more cities gets a 2nd 50% bonus? Would u say if the warrior was a vet it wold be 2 + another .5 or 2x1.5?
"Option 1: Warrior Code. You need an off path tech on the way to monarchy anyway, and I think warror code could be used. The main disadvantage is that archers have only one move. Also, Warrior code isn't even on any of the early tech paths."
This is the option i went with in my do over game. I am so unfamiliar with Raging horde Barb behavior i may have gone overboard. Built a barracks and 2 vet archers berfore planting my 2nd city. Would you experts out there say that was overkill for a guy that wanted to have more than one city?
"Option 4: Writing. Writing is quite useful and is on path to philosophy, generally the goal after Monarchy and Trade, and is on path to Republic if you want to go that way. Diplomats can bribe the barbs, but the disadvantage is that you need coins to bribe an archer (to attack the second archer and barb leader)."
i would favor option 4 especially being a strait to republic player, but those bad dudes often step in doubled up, in unbribable formation, no? In which case, the option i would like best is completely unreliable, true?
"A warrior is only guaranteed to win if the capital is your only city. A quick test found that a fortified warrior was able to survive 3 barb archers, but was killed by a fourth. "
If those barb archers with 50% deity bonus are hitting with 4.5...and it takes 4 of them to defeat a warrior that would otherwise be defending at 2?, Sounds like u get a 'Defending your Only city bonus" of about 8x, no?
"A warrior fortified and in a city will get 2 plus 50% bonuses (fortified and defending city bonuses) and will therefore defend at 2"
Wow, this is my first time hearing this. Every city defender even when u have 2 or more cities gets a 2nd 50% bonus? Would u say if the warrior was a vet it wold be 2 + another .5 or 2x1.5?
"Option 1: Warrior Code. You need an off path tech on the way to monarchy anyway, and I think warror code could be used. The main disadvantage is that archers have only one move. Also, Warrior code isn't even on any of the early tech paths."
This is the option i went with in my do over game. I am so unfamiliar with Raging horde Barb behavior i may have gone overboard. Built a barracks and 2 vet archers berfore planting my 2nd city. Would you experts out there say that was overkill for a guy that wanted to have more than one city?
"Option 4: Writing. Writing is quite useful and is on path to philosophy, generally the goal after Monarchy and Trade, and is on path to Republic if you want to go that way. Diplomats can bribe the barbs, but the disadvantage is that you need coins to bribe an archer (to attack the second archer and barb leader)."
i would favor option 4 especially being a strait to republic player, but those bad dudes often step in doubled up, in unbribable formation, no? In which case, the option i would like best is completely unreliable, true?
"A warrior is only guaranteed to win if the capital is your only city. A quick test found that a fortified warrior was able to survive 3 barb archers, but was killed by a fourth. "
If those barb archers with 50% deity bonus are hitting with 4.5...and it takes 4 of them to defeat a warrior that would otherwise be defending at 2?, Sounds like u get a 'Defending your Only city bonus" of about 8x, no?
LordValuna
High Lord
Duke
Any chance for an extension, Im only at 1600ad and the weekend is looking pretty busy!
Any chance for an extension, Im only at 1600ad and the weekend is looking pretty busy!
