GOTM116 - First Spoiler

civ_steve

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GOTM 116 - First spoiler, Greece, the Ancient Age



Reading Requirements:

  1. Must be able to research a Middle Ages Technology.

Posting restrictions

  1. Feel free to discuss distant contacts and trades, but be discreet about locations or directions of any AI.
  2. No discussion of middle-ages (or later) including resource locations.
  3. AS ALWAYS, do not post Spoiler information for ANY other 'X'OTM contest.


Being a Deity level game, I felt I needed to give you something of a good starting location. :) There are a number of AI with you on your starting landmass, and they're not too far away. How did initial contacts go? You have a fair chunk of land in your region of the continent; were you able to control most of it or did the AI challenge you for it? What is your situation entering the Middle Ages?
 
open...

that is indeed a nice starting position, steve! not only around the capital. the whole area looks bright, especially compared with the mostly poor AI starting positions and areas. like, the Chinese face their real world desertation problem in this game, as they cannot even bring water into their core at all...

well, that is THEIR problem. my problem is my computer, which is probably seeing the beginning of its end. around 350bc it has frozen twice now, in a not so exciting turn move-wise, but a very tedious mm-turn. i will most probably NOT replay that turn a 2nd time.

until here, there were bad events and good events. i settled in place, had quite some losses against early barbs. settler and i believe also worker before the granary. and i built quite a few of those, with the many food ressources around. the number became 5, i believe, more than i have ever built on such a map before.

for the second town i chose 1n2ne, for again a dense core. the core towns are 2w, 3nw, 1n2ne, 1e2ne, 3se. classic 3- and 6-tiles distance rings. 2 factories lie in the 2nd ring!

the other civs are no issue. their tech speed is surprisingly slow. so their only benefit is that they kill some of the barbs around.
for the good news, my first galley can make it to the other continent, with 3 turns on sea, in 1200bc. they are farther technologically, so this nets me Poly+contacts+gold, of course not giving away my broker position. in the same year the 2nd and 3rd lux gets connected, so research goes back to 100%. in 1100 i finally get my first promotion! and in 1025 the barbs uprise, when 2 tribes of the other continent enter MA.

for the probably first time i chose not to got for the Rep-path directly, but try to trade for those techs. i did MM and Maths and got both Philo and CoL in time, from exactly the tribes i expected them from. then full steam on Rep.

in 1000bc i have 14 towns, 45 pop, 129 land, 151 gold, 15 workers, 1 slave, 7 warriors, 2 horses, 1 galley.

in 900 i research Rep, but revolt only 1 turn later. trading it gets me into MA, but i draw the same free tech like the other sci tribe. stupid me misses a barb horse that kills 3 (!) of my workers, i could cry. and then i get 6t of anarchy. those are the really bad news.

templar_x
 
nice stats templar
i will go for 20k, but it looks difficult.
AA builds: Temple, GLib, Library, Colosseum
early and long war with rome and chinese, alliance with india. india lost many units and 1 town.
i had only 2 fights archer vs spear
contact to the other continent 670bc
enter MA 610bc
530bc 3t anarchy for rep
 
I reached MA in 1000 BC but had no contacts. I can't help feeling a little sting of envy towards T_x whose first galley got over - incredible. But it is noted that you did not get an extra free tech...

I had to self research both currency and polytheism, which says something of the tech pace. Still, I decided early on to go for science and hopefully the guys on beta continent will be more of a help. In the MA I'm hoping to trade at least invention, gunpowder and astronomy. Maybe feudalism will be possible too. We'll see what happens with chivalry and MT. Second core in early IA is crucial.

I chose RCP5 which might have been a bit stupid.
 
Well as always my first goal in a Deity game is just to survive.

Moved north one time, built war, worker, war, war grainery and built a 4 turn factory.
Ring one at 3 (never done one that close before, but it is Deity) second ring at six.

Researched pottery then straight to Republic, and was surprised I was the first, traded for a few other techs along the way. Used Rep as a bargaining tool to start war with China, and allied Rome and India.

Researched Lit and traded it away and then shut off research to build my army and hoped the Glib would be close. India obliged by building it in Delhi.

Taking in put me over into the MA.
 
I missed the COTM as I was too wrapped up with my first Sid win. None-the-less, I was not expecting good things from this game. So far, however, it has gone well.

I'm trying 20K, though I doubted it was possible for me, at first. Now I'm thinking it might work. I've got a reasonable number of towns, though less land than the AI. The local tech pace has been glacial, for deity, but my first galley got across and the other continent is doing a little better. With the GLib I'm doing okay, but through the AA I did some self-research after the GLib anyway, to get currency in a timely fashion.

Early on, the Indians marched a settler+warrior way up north. They settled right next to an archer+warrior pair of mine that was barb hunting. There were no other Indian units around, so I gambled and declared on them, razing the town. I then saw nothing of them for many turns, until they marched a stack of 5 warriors to Thermopylae. This netted them 4 dead warriors (one fortified and waited for reinforcements) and me a great leader. Hooray for hoplites. I used the leader for an army, loaded in the elite* hoplite, and waited for some more warriors to arrive so I could build the Heroic Epic.

The idiot Chinese built a city near me and then declared war. It took quite a while for me to take the town, as I waited for it to grow, but they were at war with everyone else, so I felt very safe.

Culture builds:
Temple 2470 BC
Library 1025 BC
Hanging Gardens 150 BC
Great Library 1100 BC
Heroic Epic 650 BC
Forbidden Palace 90 AD

I'm not very far into the MA right now, and I've got a 20K date before the end of the game, so I'm encouraged.
 
swordsman_small.gif

Predator, because noblesse oblige and
...is for the faint-hearted :p


Settled in place and went for the granary gambit. Worker roads the two moos, then irrigate moo1 and mine moo2, with Pottery being researched just in time for the barracks prebuild to avoid completition and switch to granary. Next tech is Writing at max. When the granary is complete, the four-turner is immediately operational. Athens starts producing settlers at pop 4-5 and so it goes for most of the ancient age, with the sole exception of a pair of workers later on.

I spot a hut in the immediate vicinity and no AS comes around to pop it, that means lots of land for expansion and/or enemies far away. When city 2 is founded i send the worker to explore it, and get my very first combat units from there, a conscript warrior that is sent exploring around.

A first ring is built at distance 3, then a second one at distance 6, with a pair of stray cities to claim useful land and NOT leave dangerous spots open for barb breeding. We build nothing but workers and regular warriors at first, then core cities specialize: some build barracks and start chunking out veteran units, others continue with workers and the occasional reg warrior for MP duty and exploration.

Barbs were not an annoyance, at first. I managed to win several battles, by defending on mountains on the NW/SE axis, but when barb horsemen showed up i started losing units at an alarming rate, and had to divert some production to hoplites and archers in order to get rid of them.

When Writing is complete, as a monopoly tech, i have knowledge of India and Rome and i can buy contact with China, Masonry, Bronze Working and Iron Working, adding some gpt to the bargaining table. Paying gpt to the AS was enough to keep them happy and deter them to turn nasty on me prematurely (i am very weak at this stage!). But it also meant less money for research. Fortunately, a source of iron shows up, in range but unconnected, leaving me with the option of building veteran warriors and save money for a mass-upgrade later on, keeping research at minimum.

With the right pick there's still a chance to get a useful tech. My choose is Code of Laws and it didn't work, but nothing would have worked because in the meantime the AS had researched everything, including Literature. However, not everyone had everything, and with the large mass of money i had collected i was able to buy CoL at a discount, Map Making, Philosophy, Wheel and Horse Riding, paving my way to Republic. I had once again to pay gpt to Rome and China, but i still want them happy at this stage.

The QSC mark is hit with 15 cities, 37 population units and an army consisting of 21 workers, 23 warriors (11 veterans), 5 archers, 3 galleys and 4 hoplites.

At the time i'm 9 turns away from Republic and about to connect iron. However, i had to stop research for a few turns and resume it at a slower pace, because lots of money went in the early tech trade and it needs a lot of cash for the mass-upgrade of warriors.

As the warriors are upgraded, Republic is still many turns away and i'm also paying unit support costs (in despotism!) so i decide to go to war anyway, and to hell with the poprushing stuff. Obvious target is India. War is declared in 850bc, honorably, and the first 3 cities fall easily in the next turn, netting also 2 elite promotions. But then, in the battle of Delhi i stumble upon a SOUR (String Of Unlucky Rolls) that slows me down a bit. However there are enough troops to go on anyway.

Republic is finally researched in 690bc. I drew 4 turns of anarchy and did not reroll. The tech is sold to Rome and China for Mysticism, Polytheism, Math, Literature, updated world maps and a good amount of cash. As soon as i get out of Anarchy i trigger the golden age with a veteran hoplite attacking a redlined enemy.

The remaining techs are still unknown, so i go for Currency but China, who has Construction, flatly refuse any sort of trade that doesn't involve an outrageous amount of cash, so i had to half-research it first. Finally, in 410bc, i'm able to buy Currency and make it to the middle ages. I get Engineering as a free tech and go slowly for Feudalism. Meanwhile, China becomes a Monarchy. Bad news, they won't feel war weariness and will be tough opponents till the very end. Well, i'll have to deal with it.

Middle ages begins with India still alive, but about to be destroyed. The ugly part is that i still do not have contacts with the AS on the other continent. A few galleys were sunk trying, one of them even managed to see foreign borders in the distance, but did not survive to make the final trip. At this point i'm about to send a fleet of 4 galleys all at once, hoping that at least one of them will survive long enough to make contact.

The plan for the middle ages is to hand-build the FP near the capital, jump the palace in the Roman land with a leader and, of course, take over the whole continent as soon as possible. We need two leaders, one for the palace jump and one to build Sun Tzu somewhere, and it shouldn't be too hard to get them. After that, i'll probably have to research my way up to Navigation before venturing oversea.

Alas, this game is very time-consuming and i'm playing it in a very fragmented way, something that does not help careful planning. I hope to get a good final date anyway. So far, i'm doing fairly well.


Here are some logs:


Techs:

4000bc: Alphabet (prerequisite);
3250bc: Pottery (research);
2110bc: Writing (research); Masonry, Bronze, War Code (trade, India); Iron Working (trade, China);
1575bc: Ceremonial Burial (trade, India);
1225bc: Map Making (trade, China); Philosophy, Wheel (trade, India); Code of Laws (trade, Rome);
1200bc: Horse Riding (trade, India);
_690bc: Republic (research); Mysticism (trade, China); Literature, Math, Poly (trade, Rome);
_530bc: Currency (research);
_410bc: Construction (trade, China); Engineering (scientific bonus);


Cities until 1000bc:

4000bc: Athens
2800bc: Sparta
2590bc: Thermopylae
2470bc: Corinth
2230bc: Delphi

2070bc: Pharsalos
1700bc: Knossos
1625bc: Argos
1525bc: Mycenae
1425bc: Plebos Nexia;

1325bc: Herakleia;
1275bc: Qitaiodea;
1225bc: Brempalonica;
1125bc: Ephesus;
1025bc: Thessalonica;


Meetings:

2850bc: India
2150bc: Rome
2110bc: China


And a shot of my landmass at 1000 bc:
 

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a nice one tr1cky!

but if you want to challenge me for a predator competition, you next time please take a heart and do that IN ADVANCE. :p

for this game, unfortunately, my dead civ computer might hold me back of putting up a challenge anyway :cry:

btw, your settlement pattern looks practically identical to mine. therefore this comes to my mind, what someone once posted here: great minds think alike - and fools seldom differ.

templar_x
 
Aha i see! Our first rings are identical, and i suppose the 2nd ones are quite similar as well... not that there was much choice actually. Ano other setup is clearly inferior, unless someone wants to play the peaceful builder, but this is not the case, isn't it? :D

Oh, and i hope you sort out the issues with your PC. This game is really worth playing.
 
well, it is not like you would find my mug if you type "peaceful builder" into wikipedia... ;)

but actually on this map it could be an option to go for a non-militaristic vc. not for me though, because i will :hammer: my computer into a second level of death. :mad:

our pattern in 1st and 2nd ring is identical except on the se peninsula. there i founded one more 2nd ring town, which allows me to get more of the food AND production to get worked earlier.
and i irrigated BOTH cows, which i actually do not understand why you did not. the only possibility is that one wants the combo factory, but i do not think you mentioned that.

templar_x
 
and i irrigated BOTH cows, which i actually do not understand why you did not. the only possibility is that one wants the combo factory, but i do not think you mentioned that.

templar_x

With one irrigation and one mine i got the exact amount of surplus food for a four-turner and, at the same time, complete the granary as soon as possible.

Once the four turner was operational, i kept moo2 mined to have more micromanaging options available. Tile 3 and 4 could have been either two simple grass, game+fish, BG+fish or even grass+fish with game as tile 5. It eventually got irrigated once in Republic because, without the penalty, one moo was enough to keep Athens as a four-turner.
 
I've played a bit and I have a turnlog. Goal is a scientific victory but these Deity AI's are no help in research.

Open
Worker to cow, irrigates, roads, then roads and irrigates the other cow
Found Athens in place.
Athens built: granary 3250, settler 3050, warrior 2950
Research: Pottery 3250, Writing 2150, Code of Laws 1625, Philosophy 1425 (bought rest from Rome), 1025 The Republic
Contacts: India 3450; Rome, China 2150;
3250 sell pottery for 35 gold to India
2900 build Sparta
2550 build Thermopylae
2470 Corinth
2150 trade Writing for WC, Masonry, CB, IW with AI’s
2110 embassy in India
1830 trade IW for the Wheel with India
1600 trade CoL for WM, MM, Mysticism, HBR and some gold with AI’s
1475 barracks in Thermopylae; lose galley galley to a barbarian ship
1325 Forbidden Palace finishes in Sparta
1300 trade for Literature
1275 Carthage completes Pyramids
1250 Delhi built The Great Library, good news; Chinese built Oracle
1225 2nd galley lost to barbarians
1175 2nd granary for workers
1125 3rd galley lost to barbs
1075 4th galley lost to barbs; Persepolis completes Lighthouse
1025 trade Rep for ~400 gold and poly, math; turn off research as I plan to conquer GLIB; will use gold to do warrior->swordsman upgrade
975 after spending 5 turns in an ocean galley finds the Persians;
Trade with the other continent, get all contacts, all the gold in the world and the world map;
Gift AI’s to tech parity as I want them to research; have 736 gold in the bank
900 establish Republic
875 barracks in Sparta
850 barb uprisings, AI’s have Currency; buy it and then get gold back after selling my free MA tech;
Persia get the same free tech as I do.
 

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i have finally got my new computer up and running and have installed civ3 again. only to find out that civassist won´t work under the newest windows. or will it? please help, if someone knows a way to get it started. (technical section seems to indicate that ainwood might come back to that some time, but there is no solution so far)

so there are only a few days left to get this game continued, without additional software? no way, that i will manage that. so if there is no extension, this will be just another fun XOTM game without my participation.

t_x
 
cannot find it in the utilities section. you got a link for me? thx in advance, t_x
 
What's the problem? Installation or running? Initially I struggled to get CA2 installed, and the main problem seemed to be that it required an older version of the .net framework to be installed. Occasionally I also get periods where CA2 and Civ3 won't run together; if I try to start CA2 with Civ3 running, CA2 immediately aborts, or if I start Civ3 with CA2 running, again CA2 immediately shuts down. My solution to that one was... use MapStat and then try CA2 a couple of games later, to find that it now works. :dunno:

The link to CRPSuite on Dianthus's website seems outdated, but it's in the CFC downloads database at http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16266
 
it is the installation already. but I need to make another try to get the version 1.1 installed. but everything looks different in the new system...

thanks a lot guys for helping me out with this stuff.

t_x
 
For what it's worth, I don't think I'm running .net v1.1 any more. I did spend a lot of time doing stuff like: (1) install v1.1, (2) rename its folders so they wouldn't get deleted when I did.. (3) install the latest version of .net, (4) set the v1.1 folders back to their old names. But obviously .net ought to be backwards compatible so that's not necessary. Maybe there was a bug in the backwards compat that has been fixed now: it looks like I'm running v4.0.30319 and CA2 is fine with it.
 
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