scubagtr
Scuba Gator
I plan to build in the hills if the water is salty. A good defensive postion for the capital would be nice.
Gotm18-Celts - Pregame Discussion
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ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Ummm... I think you mean NE.
I assume you meant NE. It's too rare for my capital to get attacked unless I pop a goody hut nearby. Since I expand outward from my capital I'm more worried about defending my outer cities. Also the barb camps generally don't start showing up for a while IIRC. I'll usually have at least one other city, probably 2, before I have to worry about barb camps. Maybe I've just been lucky in the past though. You'd also lose out on the fresh water supply.
Also, I'm changing my mind on the bonus shield in the start position. Looking at some maps the green food dots are more spaced out when there's a bonus shield there, which would indicate it's not a bonus. Not that it matters, you'll be able to tell when you load up the game and plan accordingly. But based on that the start position is probably the best place to settle unless there's game in the northern forest or something else to the east.
jordanandsteph
Chieftain
Ummmmmmmm... thanks.....brain freeze...already edited my original post
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Let's not forget about Crackers warnings. There will be regionally intensive areas of barbs. On a panagea map that means, they don't get their own little island like GOTM16. They may be just over the hills. Or on the other side of that 2 tile choke point between the lakes! That could make the BG SW important from a defensive standpoint.
EDIT: Plus they may be other sources of barbs as there may or may not have been in GOTM17 (trying to avoid spoilers but some of you know what I'm talking about.)
Ok let's discuss the gallic swordsman some more. I'm trying to decide if I should even use gallic swordsmen or if I should use horsemen.
Gallic Swordsman
cost: 50 shields
3/2/2 a/d/m
Doesn't upgrade.
Horseman
cost: 30 shields
2/1/2 a/d/m
Upgrades to Knight.
The biggest reason I'm hesitant to use the Gallic Swordsmen is because I don't want my Golden Age in Despotism. I guess even after getting republic/monarchy they'll still be more than adequate for attacking though. I usually get republic in around 300 BC so I could probably put off my offensive until then.
It also depends if there's horses or iron within reach as well of course. The benefit for the gallic swordsmen is the increased defense and offense. The benefit for the horseman is the cheaper cost and ability to upgrade to knights. But then again upgrading a horseman to a knight costs 80 gold which isn't cheap, when you could continue fighting with gallic swordsmen for free. But then the situation would be reversed as the swordsmen has 1 less attack and defense than the knight does.
I really can't decide which, although I think I'm leaning towards horsemen at the moment. Unless Carthage or Greece are my first target then I'll definitely go for the swordsmen to deal with the 3 defense.
So what are other people's thoughts on this?
Gallic Swordsman
cost: 50 shields
3/2/2 a/d/m
Doesn't upgrade.
Horseman
cost: 30 shields
2/1/2 a/d/m
Upgrades to Knight.
The biggest reason I'm hesitant to use the Gallic Swordsmen is because I don't want my Golden Age in Despotism. I guess even after getting republic/monarchy they'll still be more than adequate for attacking though. I usually get republic in around 300 BC so I could probably put off my offensive until then.
It also depends if there's horses or iron within reach as well of course. The benefit for the gallic swordsmen is the increased defense and offense. The benefit for the horseman is the cheaper cost and ability to upgrade to knights. But then again upgrading a horseman to a knight costs 80 gold which isn't cheap, when you could continue fighting with gallic swordsmen for free. But then the situation would be reversed as the swordsmen has 1 less attack and defense than the knight does.
I really can't decide which, although I think I'm leaning towards horsemen at the moment. Unless Carthage or Greece are my first target then I'll definitely go for the swordsmen to deal with the 3 defense.
So what are other people's thoughts on this?
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Gallic swordsmen do put an interesting twist on things. The high attack of a sword is a big advantage as always. But the defense of 2 is an improvement over the horses. Just looking at their defensive number, you could treat the gall as a spearman with enough movement to keep up with horses. If the plan is to upgrade horses to knights then you could make a few galls to cover your horses for the first war or two. Then when Chivalry comes about, galls won't be able to keep up but they can still attack once and fortify making handy cleanup crew.
The problem with GA in despotism does pose a threat. Researching to monarchy and going for the Conquest/Domination may be the way to go. Once in Monarchy, slow the tech rate to take advantage of the time of the swordsmen. I think money may be a problem with no rivers in view which may make research slower anyway. This may make the knight upgrade tougher? Just some rambling. Some better players guide me please.
The problem with GA in despotism does pose a threat. Researching to monarchy and going for the Conquest/Domination may be the way to go. Once in Monarchy, slow the tech rate to take advantage of the time of the swordsmen. I think money may be a problem with no rivers in view which may make research slower anyway. This may make the knight upgrade tougher? Just some rambling. Some better players guide me please.
I think I will build at least two dozen warriors for upgrading to Gallic Swordsman, then use my Golden Age to build horseman to get ready for knight upgrade. Hopefully, I should be able to conquer at least one civ with Gallic Swordsman before entering the next age. Since the Gallic Swordsman can move as fast as knight, they should be able to keep up with my knights without any problem. They are perfect for squeezing out those rebellions.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Oops again. For a moment I thought knights were 3 movement but thats not until Cavs, right? So galls can keep up just fine. So yes, lots of warriors for upgrade providing there's iron nearby. If no iron, we'll need to buy some/take some? Or just go with the horses. Archers just seem to slow for this game.
Hello Fanatics,
As a newbie to this site, and a Mac user without OSX- I'm obviously blown away to be able to participate in anything at all, let alone using a Civ that doesn't even feature in my version.
I haven't read enough background on the GOTM set-up to appreciate how you stop people cheating (ie: simply restarting from different saves etc.)
But I'm sure this will become evident (especially if anyone can be arsed to explain
Anyway, you vets are all itching to start and it's rubbing off on me!
thanks again
As a newbie to this site, and a Mac user without OSX- I'm obviously blown away to be able to participate in anything at all, let alone using a Civ that doesn't even feature in my version.
I haven't read enough background on the GOTM set-up to appreciate how you stop people cheating (ie: simply restarting from different saves etc.)
But I'm sure this will become evident (especially if anyone can be arsed to explain
Anyway, you vets are all itching to start and it's rubbing off on me!
thanks again
Another important point to mention is upgrading a warrior to a gallic swordsman is 80 gold as opposed to 40 gold for regular swordsmen. To upgrade two dozen warriors is 1920 gold. It won't be easy to scrape up that much cash in the ancient ages.
I think I'll kind of take a hybrid approach to this. Maybe build about 8 warriors to upgrade and the rest will be horsemen. Have to keep in mind that the swordsmen will be around for the rest of the game, and after the AI gets musketmen and knights they're pretty weak both offensively and defensively. Also the time between switching to republic and getting chivalry isn't that long at all.
I think I'll kind of take a hybrid approach to this. Maybe build about 8 warriors to upgrade and the rest will be horsemen. Have to keep in mind that the swordsmen will be around for the rest of the game, and after the AI gets musketmen and knights they're pretty weak both offensively and defensively. Also the time between switching to republic and getting chivalry isn't that long at all.
RocknOats
Chieftain
I gotta tell ya, from my antsy newb point of view, I HAVE to look around and second guess myself or I'd have the shakes for the whole game. (which I am currently enjoying on GOTM17!) But if I had to rush to judgement I would move one step NW and settle there. That's definitely a lake to the west and Those forests are rich in game and luxuries! (sorta-I hope). Anyhoo, that's my plan. (but I'd sure like to block that Isthmus. . .)
Are you sure that it's 80 gold and not 60 gold? Well, if you have been reading my QSC so far, you may have noticed that I usually have over 1500 gold around 1000 BC. Therefore, two dozen gallic swordsmans is very doable.
Ok, next topic...research. Do your own, or let the AI's research for you? On monarch level both are very viable strategies. As opposed to regent level, you can turn research off and generate cash and the AI won't research incredibly slow. On the other hand you can easily outresearch the AI if you know what you're doing, and you have enough room to expand.
I would think if you're going for a fast tech game you're better off doing your own research even in the ancient age. For any other strategy it's probably best to max your cash in the ancient age and just keep yourself close to the tech leaders.
One very important thing I've found on pangaea maps is sending at least one of your exploring warriors far away. Getting contacts before the AI contact each other is an incredible bonus. Instead of having to buy your techs you can get most of them for free. And then the ones you do buy you can then trade to other civ's and get 3 or 4 techs for the price of one.
If you plan to conquer a nearby civ early then obviously you want to go for min research so you have cash to do upgrades with. You can also use the strategy Moonsinger described when the opportunity arrives.
I will most likely start at min research and start researching on my own after I've upgraded all my horsemen. By then hopefully I'll have my forbidden palace completed or nearing completion.
I would think if you're going for a fast tech game you're better off doing your own research even in the ancient age. For any other strategy it's probably best to max your cash in the ancient age and just keep yourself close to the tech leaders.
One very important thing I've found on pangaea maps is sending at least one of your exploring warriors far away. Getting contacts before the AI contact each other is an incredible bonus. Instead of having to buy your techs you can get most of them for free. And then the ones you do buy you can then trade to other civ's and get 3 or 4 techs for the price of one.
If you plan to conquer a nearby civ early then obviously you want to go for min research so you have cash to do upgrades with. You can also use the strategy Moonsinger described when the opportunity arrives.
I will most likely start at min research and start researching on my own after I've upgraded all my horsemen. By then hopefully I'll have my forbidden palace completed or nearing completion.
Thanks!
I didn't know that it cost 2 gold per shield.About the research, it doesn't matter what level I play, I usually let the AIs do most of the research. I just let the AI set the pace of the tech race.
That probably would explain why I have a lot of gold.Well one of the biggest things that affect your income early on is luxuries. If there's no luxuries within reach then it can cost you a lot of money because you'll probably have to leave the slider at 20-30% for most of the ancient age. On the other hand if you can grab 2 or 3 luxuries you can probably leave it at 0 or 10% and make a lot more money. So we'll have to see what the luxury situation is.
Up until around 800 BC, my biggest city size is around 4 or 5. Since I usually build a lot of settlers for fast expansion, I rarely have to worry about keeping my citizens happy at the early stage. That would explain why I failed to build the Great Lighthouse in my last game.
Basically, my start up style won't do well in the QSC, but it will help me greatly in the long run.That doesn't generally account for good income either though. Bigger cities = more commerce assuming you have enough workers to get all worked tiles roaded. And even a size 5 city with 2 military police will require luxury tax without luxuries. Whereas if you had one luxury you wouldn't need any. It's more important on emperor and deity though due to the only one content citizen.
Oddible
signal / noise > 1
I'm confused about some of the discussion on city placement - does a city always have the same food / shields no matter what land its built on or does it take the characteristics of the specific tile - namely, if you build a city on bonus grassland, don't you get an extra shield in that city?
I would assume the same goes for hills. It seems that every time I build on hills my growth is so slow due to lack of grassland in the city tile that I can't get enough settlers going early in the game. Hence I won't be building on the hills. Likewise - the presence of fresh water makes the hills a disadvantage even if there are barbs - would rather build an extra spearman or warrior than an aqueduct.
I would assume the same goes for hills. It seems that every time I build on hills my growth is so slow due to lack of grassland in the city tile that I can't get enough settlers going early in the game. Hence I won't be building on the hills. Likewise - the presence of fresh water makes the hills a disadvantage even if there are barbs - would rather build an extra spearman or warrior than an aqueduct.
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