Gotm18-Celts Results and Congratulations

[civ_steve]

Congratulations to the GOTM staff for another great month!! I and many others really appreciate the work you do to turn out this quality product. I gained considerable additional insight with Cracker's discussion of the cultural victories - I knew the manner in which I played the game, and to have the master compare the different results and bring in the QSC inputs of the games ... that was really impressive analysis. Thanks!!

Originally posted by hotrod0823


The question I have is a Diplo or Space victory less valuable than a Domination, cultural or Conquest Win. I am not sure why but this would appear to mean that for this game setup a Diplo/Space win was a loser from the get go.

Why is that ?


Hotrod [/B]

I know (and have noticed) what you're referring to, Hotrod, and I wanted to expand a little on Bamspeedy's and Aeson's replies. Because the majority of the Spaceship and Diplo victories occur later in the game (if for no other reason, because of the technology requirements), these games have to be 'milked' to score highly. The vast majority of players are not going to do this, so the averages of these types of Victories are reduced in comparison to games where active milking does occur, or games where an early victory is achieved. I don't think this means that these victories are less valuable; this is just a consequence of the balancing act that the Jason scoring system follows.

 

[Yndy]

It seems that everyone has a different view of why diplo/space score lower.
I think it is due to the fact that those victories can be obtained very quickly if you get the skill to play them. But the skill to play a very fast diplo or space seems to be one of the hardest skills IMO. You have to conquer early, and develop the empire while in the same time increase research. The victories of DaveMcW and Ribbanah in the former GOTMs show that and the score system has to keep that in mind. In GOTM 18 I went for an early SS victory and ended up with a diplo one but I consider it a failed attempt and my score shows that.

 

[Karasu]

Yndy -call it "a failed attempt". I think you came up with the second fastest Diplo!!!

 

[Skyfish]

The difference in score is firmly related to the way the Firaxis scores on Territory and Population.
When going for a Domination, 100K culture or Conquest you WILL necessarily have a larger territory, while going for a diplo or spaceship you do not NEED to have a large territory, this is the main reason why the scores are different.

 

[Renata]

Which I think stinks, by the way. I probably could've won my spaceship launch in no more than a few extra turns (maybe 50 pts worth?) with no more than my original and the Roman territory. (And maybe the four Greek/Carthaginian towns close to my capitol.) The extra conquering beyond that was fun, but time-consuming and unlikely to be make a significant difference to my launch date. And if you'll note, even with that, my in-game score was significantly lower than anyone who finished around me -- all of whom had been out conquering from the get-go.

I really wish Firaxis would come up with a more balanced scoring system. Technology is power in and of itself in most cases; so is culture; and these should both be included in the scoring, IMO.

Given the limitations of what the GOTM staff have to work with, though, I think the modified Jason score is about as good as could be expected.

Renata

 

[a space oddity]

Originally posted by Renata
I really wish Firaxis would come up with a more balanced scoring system. Technology is power in and of itself in most cases; so is culture; and these should both be included in the scoring.

I concur

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by Renata
I really wish Firaxis would come up with a more balanced scoring system. Technology is power in and of itself in most cases; so is culture; and these should both be included in the scoring, IMO.

So do I, but I think the Jason score works out very well....

 

[hotrod0823]

I wonder how far in tech those large domination/conquest type games got. I am not sure if Tech or Cuture is given any scoring consideration at all apart from Sanitation and that is only necessary to allow a larger population. I think even the future tech score is very limited.

Small and tech savy is not given the same scoring consideration as a large military powerhouse.

 

[LeSphinx]

More than 180 submission and 160 in the timesheet score!
Waouh!

For me, I made my best civ3 score : 6403 and also my best jason score : 5234! But I'm only 68th. Snif!


So I'm happy!

Good playing in GOTM19...

LeSphinx

 

[Skyfish]

@hotrod : To give you an idea, I had the third fastest Domination win. I never researched, slowed the pace down dramatically (as SirPleb so beautifully described) and the last tech I ever had was Chivalry...far, far away from Sanitation. Never even tried to get high population.
I stayed the whole time in Despotism !

EDIT : taking into account Maximus' fast victory.

 

[hotrod0823]

I guess that goes to show you that all it takes is a few knights and knowing how to use them.

 

[Skyfish]

Yes indeed...a few... I think I had 150 or so when I hit the domination limit...

 

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by hotrod0823
I think even the future tech score is very limited.

I had like 15 future techs and only scored 4.4 points. So they aren't worth researching.

 

[OneFastWarrior]

well, I have been having a hard time in the harder levels, and I am now reading QSC's (wish I had read them B4 I had started gotm19) I read Sirpleb's and plan on reading quite a few more. I also will not start gotm 20 until I read some of the qsc19's.

As I have read Cracker say for anyone that needs help or is having a hard time, Wait and read some QSC's, They really do help".
I still think that I will probably not do great this month(gotm19) but I have a much better idea of what I am doing.

Thanks to sirpleb and all the others for great timelines. I also thank everyone who gives good advice in the pregame talk.

 

[Gen. Maximus]

Quoted from hotrod0823
"I wonder how far in tech those large domination/conquest type games got."
When going for domination, only research necessary tech to give u strong defensive/offensive units. You don't research much, you only extort it out from your losing rivals when they are down on to their knees. I played till 950AD before domination ending with the tech of Chemistry (aiming for Calvary), and was still among the most advance in terms of science and strongest culture in. Was under evil Despotism rule all the way!
Again Adel beat me as always, last GOTM was by 1 turn for fastest dom vivtory, now he beat me handsomely by 150 years!

 

[cracker]

Quoted from hotrod0823(and Gen. Maximus)
"I wonder how far in tech those large domination/conquest type games got."

Culture games can also see some fairly severe research shutdown depending on map conditions. One of my fastest culture games on record was basically shut down for all research after "steam power" and I only beelined straight up to "Replaceable Parts" so I could get the worker productivity up a notch to help milk for more food from irrigation and rails. I was driving almost 1000 culture points per turn at that point and disbanding empty armies plus using elite cavalry in semi-defense to fish for more leaders to help rush universities in every city on the planet.

Shutting down research at the right time can give you lots of cash to do amazing things if you combine the cash with short rushing and unit/shield shuttling.

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by hotrod0823
I wonder how far in tech those large domination/conquest type games got. I am not sure if Tech or Cuture is given any scoring consideration at all apart from Sanitation and that is only necessary to allow a larger population. I think even the future tech score is very limited.

In my GOTM#18 I didn't even make it into the Industrial Ages, and I was playing for 100 K culture, gaining over 2000 culture points in the last year.

If you know beforehand that you'll never get to Sanitation, but you still want a good number of citizens, don't reserve 20 tiles per city!

 

[Gen. Maximus]

Talking about domination, I was nearly wiped out of the map by Romans in 2470BC(32nd turn) when undefended Entremont was captured by lurking "polite" Roman warriors and my capital 'transfered' to Alecia. Cracker, that's to explain"palace??" remark for my details in QSC result. The QSC went badly for me. At the start, my settler move south then north back again, losing two turns. So not a surprise to get #9 from BEHIND in the 91 submission list in QSC. Luckily managed to rebound back to finish #13 for the final game.

 

[Skyfish]

I apologize Maximus your victory was faster than mine, sorry.
My previous post was wrong I will correct it. Sorry.
I was third fastest not, second fastest.

 

[Gen. Maximus]

Oh, Skyfish. I did not realise you wrote that even though I did read your post earlier. No apology necessary, we're on the same boat, i.e. we're not in the same league as that top few who can always seems to finish a few hundred years ahead of us.
I normally play dom or conquest as to minimise my time playing Civ3, IT"S TAKING TOO MUCH OF MY TIME!! Kind of an addiction!