I don't think they're going to be able to publish that before the end of the month. The Jason "best dates" are based on the type of landforms. But we don't know if it's continents, pangaea or archipelago. Now he could just leave that field blank or say "Mystery" but people who understand the formula would be able to calculate backwards and figure out what kind of landforms it is.
Gotm19-Ottomans Pre-Game Discussion
- Thread starter cracker
- Start date
I don't think they're going to be able to publish that before the end of the month. The Jason "best dates" are based on the type of landforms. But we don't know if it's continents, pangaea or archipelago. Now he could just leave that field blank or say "Mystery" but people who understand the formula would be able to calculate backwards and figure out what kind of landforms it is.
True enough. My comment was made assuming that with industrious workers we'd be able to more than keep up with growth (assuming no food bonuses) even if we had to mine plain grassland. Even non-industrious workers can *just* keep up with growth with no food bonuses (pre-granary): 1 turn to move, 3 to road and six to mine takes ten turns, same as growth.
The rivers will definitely be nice, but I will miss all those shields I had in Entremont last game.
Can't have everything.Renata
Txurce
Deity
Thanks, Alamo. I had no clue about a small map's effect on corruption.
Continuing with what may and may not be available, based on Cracker's historical synopsis: no bonus food source nearby, forcing the Ottomans to go to war early on horseback against their luxurious neighbors... but prepare for no nearby saltpeter, to theoretically approximate the Ottomans' historical trading for firearms.
Continuing with what may and may not be available, based on Cracker's historical synopsis: no bonus food source nearby, forcing the Ottomans to go to war early on horseback against their luxurious neighbors... but prepare for no nearby saltpeter, to theoretically approximate the Ottomans' historical trading for firearms.
BillChin
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 494
Here is my thinking on initial builds. I am leaning towards one warrior then a granary. Even if there is limited land, being on a river makes a granary worthwhile. Being industrious probably means I can get the granary before pop three, especially if there is a second shield grass in the radius. Cutting forests (five turns for ten shields) may be key to getting that granary before a settler would be ready. On a small map, pottery is less than ten turns of research for a river capital, so 100% research. Of course a nearby food bonus changes all these calculations.
In my experience the AI does not attack if I only have one city and no settlers. On Emperor this may be a saving grace if there are hostile neighbors nearby. Once the granary is complete warriors will come out quick enough, if needed. However, a warrior rush is not a good plan on Emperor because the AI starts with five free units.
+ Bill
In my experience the AI does not attack if I only have one city and no settlers. On Emperor this may be a saving grace if there are hostile neighbors nearby. Once the granary is complete warriors will come out quick enough, if needed. However, a warrior rush is not a good plan on Emperor because the AI starts with five free units.
+ Bill
Here is what I'm planning to do as of now, it may change.
I will probably build 2 warriors, then a settler. Hopefully I'll have found a food bonus nearby to place my 2nd city there. That city will build a granary and my first city will go to a barracks and then warrior production, supplying workers in between as needed.
I will start off with 100% research on Pottery. I will hopefully be able to buy Alphabet and then I will do 100% research on Math. I believe, even though this is emperor, that the map effects on tech speed will make it worthwhile to do your own research in the ancient age.
Hopefully there will be a source of iron nearby and I will upgrade all the warriors that the capital produced. I hope to go to war real early in this game, when I only have 3-4 cities or so. I'm going with swordsmen instead of horsemen because the map is small. You won't have to travel far to reach another civ and the 3 attack of a swordsmen is much better than 2 attack horsemen. Also I can benefit from building warriors and upgrading to swords, while it's not easy to build chariots and upgrade to horsemen since once you learn horseback riding you can't build chariots anymore. Also chariots are more expensive to build than warriors are.
I am going to attempt DaveMcW's famous Palace jump. I've been studying his games and trying to figure out how he manages the extreme fast tech rates.
I will probably build 2 warriors, then a settler. Hopefully I'll have found a food bonus nearby to place my 2nd city there. That city will build a granary and my first city will go to a barracks and then warrior production, supplying workers in between as needed.
I will start off with 100% research on Pottery. I will hopefully be able to buy Alphabet and then I will do 100% research on Math. I believe, even though this is emperor, that the map effects on tech speed will make it worthwhile to do your own research in the ancient age.
Hopefully there will be a source of iron nearby and I will upgrade all the warriors that the capital produced. I hope to go to war real early in this game, when I only have 3-4 cities or so. I'm going with swordsmen instead of horsemen because the map is small. You won't have to travel far to reach another civ and the 3 attack of a swordsmen is much better than 2 attack horsemen. Also I can benefit from building warriors and upgrading to swords, while it's not easy to build chariots and upgrade to horsemen since once you learn horseback riding you can't build chariots anymore. Also chariots are more expensive to build than warriors are.
I am going to attempt DaveMcW's famous Palace jump. I've been studying his games and trying to figure out how he manages the extreme fast tech rates.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
First, for the benefit of LeSphinx and any otehr players that are mucking around with the graphics test save file for any other purposes than what the instructions indicate it is good for, here is a quote for the pregame discussion last month from Gotm18:
Here is a link to and even stronger warning:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=884127#post884127
---------------------------------------------
Shillen is exactly on track with his interpretation of whether the Jason score calculator will be available early for this game. Gotm18-Celts was somewhat of an exception to the process in that the scoring functions were almost entirely driven by information that was revealed to you in the Scope of the Game announcement. In most cases, you will not have all the scoring parameters available to you in advance of the game. The basic scoring concepts are always consistently focused on Maximizing Territory and Population and then proceeding to the Chosen Victory Condition as quickly as possible.
-----------------------------------------------
To aid all you aspiring Grand Visiers in your pregame planning, here is a minimap view of your world as revealed by the intercession of the Mullahs:
And just a reminder to any drunken Celtic headhunters who may still be wandering lost among the wilds of Gotm18 , if you have not yet completed and submitted the Celts or Keltoi game, focus on that objective first and get that game on the record books before April 30st; only 2 1/2 days left to go.
Good luck to all of you in this month's game!
cracker
Here is a link to and even stronger warning:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=884127#post884127
---------------------------------------------
Shillen is exactly on track with his interpretation of whether the Jason score calculator will be available early for this game. Gotm18-Celts was somewhat of an exception to the process in that the scoring functions were almost entirely driven by information that was revealed to you in the Scope of the Game announcement. In most cases, you will not have all the scoring parameters available to you in advance of the game. The basic scoring concepts are always consistently focused on Maximizing Territory and Population and then proceeding to the Chosen Victory Condition as quickly as possible.
-----------------------------------------------
To aid all you aspiring Grand Visiers in your pregame planning, here is a minimap view of your world as revealed by the intercession of the Mullahs:
And just a reminder to any drunken Celtic headhunters who may still be wandering lost among the wilds of Gotm18 , if you have not yet completed and submitted the Celts or Keltoi game, focus on that objective first and get that game on the record books before April 30st; only 2 1/2 days left to go.
Good luck to all of you in this month's game!
cracker
G
Gainy
Guest
This is going to be my first GOTM, and im quite keen to see how ill do compared to everyonme else. But i cant download the GOTM 18 - celts stuff 
, "this page cannot be displayed". Will this be fixed, or is it just me that cant get on to the download?
, "this page cannot be displayed". Will this be fixed, or is it just me that cant get on to the download?
Originally posted by Gainy bo
This is going to be my first GOTM, and im quite keen to see how ill do compared to everyonme else. But i cant download the GOTM 18 - celts stuff
The same thing also happened to me (the link for the extra graphics pact from GOTM18 is invalid.
Basically, this link is invalid:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm18_start_PTWv1_14.zip
However, I went to the GOTM18 page and got it from there. You can get those extra graphic pack from the GOTM18 from this link:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/gotm18_start_ptwv1_14.zip
Edit: Obviously, the link is case sensitive.
Thanks moonsinger, that gave me enough info to fix the case sensitive server issue. - cracker
Txurce
Deity
The world map at 4000BC goes along with my guess that we are on a doughnut- or C-shaped land mass.
Shillen, keep us posted if you crack - or dent - DaveMcW's research scheme. I've been thinking of early war as well. Do you think you'll have iron working and enough gold to upgrade those warriors, while researching at full speed, not too long after building that fourth city? I am considering archers if horsemen prove prohibitive. Ten archers aren't too hard to build, and can lop off two cities in one turn, immediately crippling your hoplite-free opponent, and boosting you to major-power size - at which time it becomes easier to build either horsemen or swordsmen, depending on what makes sense.
I am also considering building the GL in the capital, since it won't serve as a settler factory, but will generate plenty of shields and river gold as it grows past size 6, and will allow me to stay even in tech while I go to war and carve out an empire that will allow me to go to space.
Shillen, keep us posted if you crack - or dent - DaveMcW's research scheme. I've been thinking of early war as well. Do you think you'll have iron working and enough gold to upgrade those warriors, while researching at full speed, not too long after building that fourth city? I am considering archers if horsemen prove prohibitive. Ten archers aren't too hard to build, and can lop off two cities in one turn, immediately crippling your hoplite-free opponent, and boosting you to major-power size - at which time it becomes easier to build either horsemen or swordsmen, depending on what makes sense.
I am also considering building the GL in the capital, since it won't serve as a settler factory, but will generate plenty of shields and river gold as it grows past size 6, and will allow me to stay even in tech while I go to war and carve out an empire that will allow me to go to space.
Well, I am one of these old drunkards... Must say, tho, that I am not lost in the wild. In fact, I followed an unexplored and often neglected side branch of the tech tree...Not everyone knows that Pottery (+ at least three cities with Wheat and River nearby) allow you to research Brewing, which lets you build the City Improvement "Brewery", which turns wheat into Beers. The effect is that all your citizens become forever happy (although they won't work anymore, plus you won't be able to start the game on Sunday mornings).
Five Breweries will open up new techs for you to research:
- Lager Beer Brewing
- Abbey Beer Brewing
- Weisse Beer Brewing
- Lambic Beer Brewing
- Whiskey Making (city improvement: Pub)
- Playing Darts
Discovery of the last two techs really made for a complex game, as my workers won't be able to follow straight paths any longer, nor will they be able to make any further research (so, space race and diplo victories are gone).
All culture buildings, moreover, suddenly lost their power, so cultural victories are impossible too.
My warriors fight bravely, but they are very hard to manage and get beaten up by their sober rivals.
My only chance now is to build the Great Wonder "World Darts Tournament" (need ten Pubs and one UU "Drunken Dart Player") and win it.
But I'll try to make it for the deadline, if I manage to weak up sober one of these days...
Just an on-topic comment: I wouldn't expect the world geography to represent too closely the real historical settings -that would be too predictable of Cracker...
Yes I've thought about this as well. I really don't know until I'm actually playing. If I have to alter my strategy I will. For instance I could research math at min instead of max. Or possibly research math and then start on currency at minimum while building cash for upgrades. I'm really not going to have that many warriors by then though. I won't upgrade the regulars of course, so I'd say I'll probably have about 4 warriors to upgrade which is 160 gold. That should be nearly enough to take an enemy capital and I'll build more to reinforce them. I don't expect to have my fourth city until around turns 55-60 in the game.
Of course my whole strategy is out the window if we turn up on an island or something. You always have to adapt.
G
Gainy
Guest
Thanks moonsinger
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
I'm not sure I'll be playing this month. RL is getting busy. Hopefully I'll end up with time later in the month. It is after all just a small map 
I don't think that enough is known about the map to make firm plans. It will be very important on this map to be opportunistic, watching for potential advantages and adapting as things evolve.
I do have some general thoughts, most of them subject to change depending on how things unfold. The geography will have an especially strong effect. Many of my thoughts are based on the assumption that most Civs will be in contact at a fairly early date. That seems most likely to me. But it is possible that we're somewhat isolated at the start and in that case a lot of the following would change a bit. Another thing which will have a strong impact is the availability of resources. Impossible to guess in advance whether early aggression is something I'll try, that decision will have to wait until more is known.
Seven rivals on a small map is likely to be a bit crowded. Unless there's something about the geography which precludes this I'd expect some early wars.
The tech pace will be fast. If most AIs have contact early on then the early game tech pace will be very fast. If we contribute to it with aggressive trading and research the tech pace will be extremely fast. But I do think it will be possible for us to remain competitive in research. Expanding as quickly as possible at the start will be important of course to build up some capacity. I think it will be possible to build the Great Library to catch up early techs - I'll write more about that possibility further down. I don't plan to try that, expect I will trade and research for tech.
I don't think this will be a good map for my more usual style of falling behind in tech at the start and catching up later. The value of the trades I like to make when Writing and MapMaking become available could be low on this map. (Depending a bit on geography, the small map means the AIs will have explored more and have more contacts, resulting in less for me to trade.) Combined with the high pace I think this means that casually falling behind in tech will not work well. I'll make an effort to stay caught up in tech on this one.
I don't plan to try it but it may be possible to get a tech via forty turn research and then leverage it in trading. It will be a bit of a gamble. If trying for this I think the best candidate for it will be Polytheism. In any case for this to work it will be important to get the prerequisite techs as soon as any other Civs know them and to start the forty turns asap to maximize the chance of success.
This could be an ideal map for a Palace jump. Forbidden Palace can be built after just seven towns. If there's a bit of expansion room and it is possible to found a good city for the new Palace early on, a peaceful Palace jump could work well. Definitely a possibility to watch for and to take if it seems appropriate.
Wonders: It will be difficult to build any early wonders in this game. The AIs have their Emperor advantage, and the fast tech pace means there will be more wonder cascades. I think it will be possible to build the Great Library but only by dedicating major effort to it. I don't plan to try it. If you do go for this I'd suggest: 1) Start a prebuild around 3000BC (not much later!) in one of your first two towns. 2) Groom that town's production - ensure that the tiles its citizens are working are productive, that there is no unrest there, and that it continues to grow at a good pace. 3) Going for Great Library may be incompatible with going for a Palace jump.
Temples: I plan to build very few, perhaps none. If there's a severe luxury shortage I might change my mind on this in a few towns. Literature should be known fairly early in the game. Due to the high tech pace it won't be possible to build all improvements in all towns. Libraries are a cheaper way for us (as a scientific Civ) to maintain cultural parity than temples, and they'll boost our research capacity at the same time.
Golden Age: The Sipahi will be available a bit later than I'd like for a Golden Age. But I think they're the way I'll plan to trigger it. The alternative by building wonders doesn't look good in this game. Our traits mean that for an earlier Golden Age we'd need to build the Great Library and any one of the Great Wall, Hanging Gardens, or Pyramids. It will be tough to meet those conditions on this map. If we can capture one of the required wonders that could change things. Probably not though.
I'm still mulling over opening moves. Where we are in the minimap might have some influence. My current thinking is:
1) Rapid expansion is even more important than usual since the map is likely to be crowded.
2) Unless the start position is extremely crowded, or there turn out to be some nice food bonuses nearby, I'll want a granary. It would be a pity to build Granary in the capital and then abandon it in a Palace jump later on but I'll do that if it seems best, i.e. if there's no food bonus for the capital.
3) First move the warrior to the eastern mountain. That will expose a number of tiles which look like a grassland area. If a food bonus is revealed then all other bets are off, my worker and settler will move to take advantage of it.
4) If no food bonus from (1) then move the worker to the northern mountain to reveal as many other tiles as possible. Again, if a food bonus becomes visible then that will dictate my subsequent moves.
5) If no food bonus from either (1) or (2) then it will be tempting to throw the dice and move the settler west or south to continue the search. I may throw some dice to decide Probably not, probably settle at the start. And then start by researching Pottery and building a Granary immediately. Even with two wasted worker moves it will be possible to build the Granary before the capital grows to size three, and then produce the first settler a few turns after that growth.
I don't think that enough is known about the map to make firm plans. It will be very important on this map to be opportunistic, watching for potential advantages and adapting as things evolve.
I do have some general thoughts, most of them subject to change depending on how things unfold. The geography will have an especially strong effect. Many of my thoughts are based on the assumption that most Civs will be in contact at a fairly early date. That seems most likely to me. But it is possible that we're somewhat isolated at the start and in that case a lot of the following would change a bit. Another thing which will have a strong impact is the availability of resources. Impossible to guess in advance whether early aggression is something I'll try, that decision will have to wait until more is known.
Seven rivals on a small map is likely to be a bit crowded. Unless there's something about the geography which precludes this I'd expect some early wars.
The tech pace will be fast. If most AIs have contact early on then the early game tech pace will be very fast. If we contribute to it with aggressive trading and research the tech pace will be extremely fast. But I do think it will be possible for us to remain competitive in research. Expanding as quickly as possible at the start will be important of course to build up some capacity. I think it will be possible to build the Great Library to catch up early techs - I'll write more about that possibility further down. I don't plan to try that, expect I will trade and research for tech.
I don't think this will be a good map for my more usual style of falling behind in tech at the start and catching up later. The value of the trades I like to make when Writing and MapMaking become available could be low on this map. (Depending a bit on geography, the small map means the AIs will have explored more and have more contacts, resulting in less for me to trade.) Combined with the high pace I think this means that casually falling behind in tech will not work well. I'll make an effort to stay caught up in tech on this one.
I don't plan to try it but it may be possible to get a tech via forty turn research and then leverage it in trading. It will be a bit of a gamble. If trying for this I think the best candidate for it will be Polytheism. In any case for this to work it will be important to get the prerequisite techs as soon as any other Civs know them and to start the forty turns asap to maximize the chance of success.
This could be an ideal map for a Palace jump. Forbidden Palace can be built after just seven towns. If there's a bit of expansion room and it is possible to found a good city for the new Palace early on, a peaceful Palace jump could work well. Definitely a possibility to watch for and to take if it seems appropriate.
Wonders: It will be difficult to build any early wonders in this game. The AIs have their Emperor advantage, and the fast tech pace means there will be more wonder cascades. I think it will be possible to build the Great Library but only by dedicating major effort to it. I don't plan to try it. If you do go for this I'd suggest: 1) Start a prebuild around 3000BC (not much later!) in one of your first two towns. 2) Groom that town's production - ensure that the tiles its citizens are working are productive, that there is no unrest there, and that it continues to grow at a good pace. 3) Going for Great Library may be incompatible with going for a Palace jump.
Temples: I plan to build very few, perhaps none. If there's a severe luxury shortage I might change my mind on this in a few towns. Literature should be known fairly early in the game. Due to the high tech pace it won't be possible to build all improvements in all towns. Libraries are a cheaper way for us (as a scientific Civ) to maintain cultural parity than temples, and they'll boost our research capacity at the same time.
Golden Age: The Sipahi will be available a bit later than I'd like for a Golden Age. But I think they're the way I'll plan to trigger it. The alternative by building wonders doesn't look good in this game. Our traits mean that for an earlier Golden Age we'd need to build the Great Library and any one of the Great Wall, Hanging Gardens, or Pyramids. It will be tough to meet those conditions on this map. If we can capture one of the required wonders that could change things. Probably not though.
I'm still mulling over opening moves. Where we are in the minimap might have some influence. My current thinking is:
1) Rapid expansion is even more important than usual since the map is likely to be crowded.
2) Unless the start position is extremely crowded, or there turn out to be some nice food bonuses nearby, I'll want a granary. It would be a pity to build Granary in the capital and then abandon it in a Palace jump later on but I'll do that if it seems best, i.e. if there's no food bonus for the capital.
3) First move the warrior to the eastern mountain. That will expose a number of tiles which look like a grassland area. If a food bonus is revealed then all other bets are off, my worker and settler will move to take advantage of it.
4) If no food bonus from (1) then move the worker to the northern mountain to reveal as many other tiles as possible. Again, if a food bonus becomes visible then that will dictate my subsequent moves.
5) If no food bonus from either (1) or (2) then it will be tempting to throw the dice and move the settler west or south to continue the search. I may throw some dice to decide
Probably not, probably settle at the start. And then start by researching Pottery and building a Granary immediately. Even with two wasted worker moves it will be possible to build the Granary before the capital grows to size three, and then produce the first settler a few turns after that growth.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Well, I'm back.
And this is what I have to deal with? Oy!
But I went out and purchased PTW today, and plan to play the GOTMs from now on. Kudos for me. (I don't think I'll get back into the Succession Games, because everybody is probably mad at me for bailing en masse...unless they had forgotten, and I just reminded them...DOH!)
I'm confused on one thing (one thing?)...what's stopping us from starting til Thursday? No .sav file?
EDIT: Oh yeah, and what's this QSC thing? -- ok, I found the info, never mind
And this is what I have to deal with? Oy!
But I went out and purchased PTW today, and plan to play the GOTMs from now on. Kudos for me. (I don't think I'll get back into the Succession Games, because everybody is probably mad at me for bailing en masse...unless they had forgotten, and I just reminded them...DOH!)
I'm confused on one thing (one thing?)...what's stopping us from starting til Thursday? No .sav file?
EDIT: Oh yeah, and what's this QSC thing? -- ok, I found the info, never mind
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
In the readme.txt, I find: "You may then download the starting save game file from the following internet address anytime after the 1st of April 2003."
I bet some people will climb back down off those mountains now. I am definitely thinking about a SW move to get away from those mountains - a tactical advantage to attackers.
I am a bit suprised to hear so many granaries. If there are 2-3 close rivals then real estate could disappear fast. Since we're industrious the worker may get ahead enough to join for a settler.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
I'm thinking SW move to start as well--for the Settler. South move for the Worker, and a N move for the Warrior.
Of course, I suck at Emperor and haven't played for ~8 months...
Of course, I suck at Emperor and haven't played for ~8 months...
Singularity
Infinite Density
That minimap leaves me completely baffled to the shape of the terrain we're playing in, shaped like a giant C someone said, perhaps - or the doughnut world... It has to be something around those lines at least if we're to have any chance of seperating one half of the world from the other half in the opening game.
I have thought a bit about my opening and think I will stick to this solution: First move my conscript warrior N to the mountain. If he sees nothing of interest I will move my worker W to scout and start irrigation in the next turn if he doesnt find anything either. That way we will have the same result when we're size 2 as compared to mining the grass south of start. Of course I will travel on with my worker if he should spot a cow or some wheat in the plains NW or N of my worker.
Edit: Mmm, forget that. It takes too long for the city to grow to size 2, so mining the grass must be a natural choice. Which leads me to sending the warrior W instead of north, to get a better view of the river system to the west of us.
A possible shape of the map could be a diagonally lake/bay running from the SE corner to the NW corner with us on the only connection between the NE and the SW half of the map.
I have thought a bit about my opening and think I will stick to this solution: First move my conscript warrior N to the mountain. If he sees nothing of interest I will move my worker W to scout and start irrigation in the next turn if he doesnt find anything either. That way we will have the same result when we're size 2 as compared to mining the grass south of start. Of course I will travel on with my worker if he should spot a cow or some wheat in the plains NW or N of my worker.
Edit: Mmm, forget that. It takes too long for the city to grow to size 2, so mining the grass must be a natural choice. Which leads me to sending the warrior W instead of north, to get a better view of the river system to the west of us.
A possible shape of the map could be a diagonally lake/bay running from the SE corner to the NW corner with us on the only connection between the NE and the SW half of the map.
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