Ronald
Emperor
Hi Moonsinger,
I think you are mistaken at that point. We think we already have a third unit from the start. Look at the picture. Singularity pointed out clearly that we start with three units.
Ronald
Gotm19-Ottomans Pre-Game Discussion
- Thread starter cracker
- Start date
Hi Moonsinger,
I think you are mistaken at that point. We think we already have a third unit from the start. Look at the picture. Singularity pointed out clearly that we start with three units.
Ronald
zagnut
Monarch
Moonsinger:
I read cracker's explanation to mean that when the game was generated there was a hut showing in the start position. He has eliminated that hut and given us what was in it. That is why there are 3 units now stacked at the start position. Apparently the hut in the start position contained a "skilled warrior" and that is now the third unit in the stack.
Also, there were 2 additional huts that would have been discovered shortly thereafter. One contained nothing and one yielded 25 gold. He has also done us the favor of opening those huts for us. I therefore believe we will start off with 25 gold in our treasury.
I read cracker's explanation to mean that when the game was generated there was a hut showing in the start position. He has eliminated that hut and given us what was in it. That is why there are 3 units now stacked at the start position. Apparently the hut in the start position contained a "skilled warrior" and that is now the third unit in the stack.
Also, there were 2 additional huts that would have been discovered shortly thereafter. One contained nothing and one yielded 25 gold. He has also done us the favor of opening those huts for us. I therefore believe we will start off with 25 gold in our treasury.
hotrod0823
Deity
My guess is that it is a full 35 gold. 10 to start plus the 25. These 3 huts, the warrior, the gold and the empty have been pre-hit and the spoils gained at the start but I think there may be more in the area as Cracker has hinted.
It just too bad that they weren't tech huts
!This also struck me! Do the other civs already have cities???
Was the extra warrior and gold just a nudge to get us started so we are not in a complete hole!
This statement also leads me to believe we are smack dab in the middle of the map with the Europeans to the NE and the Chinese and Japanese to the SW.
Contacts will go through us. Keeping the two sides unknown may be key. In a recent SG game we had the lighthouse and found 1 continent with 4 civs that were activelytrading. The other side of the map revealed the other 4 more civs. WE went from 5 techs behind at first contact to the tech leader with simple trading. The longer the 2 sides don't have contact the higher the value of the trades. Play one side against the other and trading can be very lucritative. Research a key tech and you can control the entire tech pace.
Okay enough guessing ! I'll just have to wait.
hotrod
Can you tell I completed 18 and I have no SG's to play tonight
[edit] Okay my final thoughts on the subject: Is it a coincidence that the first tier tech have lost their value for QSC? It is critical that you chose the correct branch and push for second tiers to trade back and grab the less valueable first tier techs.
Txurce
Deity
If the Ottoman historical overview that Cracker provided has any relevance to the game itself, then it would make sense that the Ottomans would start in a not very fertile location, at the center of a map shaped like an inverted C - the Mediterranean - which is itself divided by a mountain range (the Balkans). Pursuing Cracker's lead, the Ottomans' immediate neighbors should have a good number of luxuries, but our position on the map puts us in excellent shape to trade those luxuries... once we capture them.
DaveMcW predicts that Cracker wouldn't leave the exploring of the "right" mountain to guesswork, but if we have both a warrior and a worker with which to explore both mountains, then there is no guesswork. (That said, the odds are good that the more promising territory is downstream.)
What other effects does a small (and crowded) world have on the game, besides speeding up the tech pace and reducing elbow room?
DaveMcW predicts that Cracker wouldn't leave the exploring of the "right" mountain to guesswork, but if we have both a warrior and a worker with which to explore both mountains, then there is no guesswork. (That said, the odds are good that the more promising territory is downstream.)
What other effects does a small (and crowded) world have on the game, besides speeding up the tech pace and reducing elbow room?
Singularity
Infinite Density
If we truly have a chance to 'split' the world for a while it might be a map with a major barrior that should let us close the few openings in the opening play, a warrior will not spend long time crossing a 80X80 map. If a single unit slips through to the other civs we would be reduced to a juicy target in the middle of everybodies paths....
So a mix of the spine of mountains in GOTM16 and some other radical features could be riddling the map in the north-south axis where we might start in the middle. I think I will be using luxury tax for many turns in this game untill my early scouts assess what needs to be done to close down the north-south axis and put a big Ottoman flag on it eventually.
So a mix of the spine of mountains in GOTM16 and some other radical features could be riddling the map in the north-south axis where we might start in the middle. I think I will be using luxury tax for many turns in this game untill my early scouts assess what needs to be done to close down the north-south axis and put a big Ottoman flag on it eventually.
8 civs on a small map. On emperor. 
Sounds like fun. My guess is other civs will be right on top of us (with bonus units!), so I think I'll dispense with the granary for this one and concentrate on making myself look less like easy pickings. Research probably to iron-working at min, although I may change my mind on that one.
Getting enough cities for a FP may even be an issue if we're really boxed in - what is it, 7 cities on a small map? - which might make staying peaceful early very difficult.
I have no idea what victory I'll be going for; since this is emperor I'll be happy just to win. But I'll definitely try to be military-heavy early on. Maybe some oscillating wars with swordsmen or horsies if neighbors really are close?
Renata
Sounds like fun. My guess is other civs will be right on top of us (with bonus units!), so I think I'll dispense with the granary for this one and concentrate on making myself look less like easy pickings. Research probably to iron-working at min, although I may change my mind on that one.Getting enough cities for a FP may even be an issue if we're really boxed in - what is it, 7 cities on a small map? - which might make staying peaceful early very difficult.
I have no idea what victory I'll be going for; since this is emperor I'll be happy just to win. But I'll definitely try to be military-heavy early on. Maybe some oscillating wars with swordsmen or horsies if neighbors really are close?
Renata
8 civs on a small map is going to be brutal. it will probably be a fast tech game, considering the extra civs and the small map research costs.
considering real-world geography and cracker's design style, i'm gonna guess that the start is in a "valley" of sorts, with mountains providing strong defense and funneling trade through our little empire.
if it gets to that i think that Siphai will be awesome and will be a huge advantage during all those infantry/artillery wars at the end of the industrial age
now we just have to wait for thursday!
considering real-world geography and cracker's design style, i'm gonna guess that the start is in a "valley" of sorts, with mountains providing strong defense and funneling trade through our little empire.
if it gets to that i think that Siphai will be awesome and will be a huge advantage during all those infantry/artillery wars at the end of the industrial age
now we just have to wait for thursday!
I think you guys have very good eyesight; it does look like a stack of three at the starting location. Oh well, we will find out for sure in a couple day.
Oh well, we will find out for sure in a couple day.
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I still believe that this will be a continents map. That said I also believe that the rivers to the West will run out to the sea within a few tiles. Dave McW's suggestion therefore strikes me as a good idea.
Historically, you might expect the Ottomans to start to the East (in the middle east) of a narrow stretch of water that seperates them from Europe. What worries me is that in the Roman game cracker rotated his image if the Med through 90 degrees.... I also tend to agree with other posters that we could start in the middle of the map, and that there will be three landmasses, the third representing North Africa.
There is nothing in the starting position that would lead me to move the settler. My worker will always move to the tile it is going to work first, so that will be south. It's just a question for me of which fork in the river to follow with the third unit. I'm torn between northern mountain and NW...but what do I know? If I can move the settler 1 tile to get coast, wheat or cattle then I may be persuaded to move that single tile.
Also I have read talk about moving settlers 2 tiles if food bonuses can be attained by doing this. As a beginner, I can't for the life of me work out how this could be of benefit. The start location is poor, but good enough to get a settler out to this "great" site pretty quick I would have thought. Especially considering Emperor level and 7 other CIVS on a small map. For me personally I think I may aswell string my settler up to the nearest tree, the end would be quicker, but no more certain.
Historically, you might expect the Ottomans to start to the East (in the middle east) of a narrow stretch of water that seperates them from Europe. What worries me is that in the Roman game cracker rotated his image if the Med through 90 degrees.... I also tend to agree with other posters that we could start in the middle of the map, and that there will be three landmasses, the third representing North Africa.
There is nothing in the starting position that would lead me to move the settler. My worker will always move to the tile it is going to work first, so that will be south. It's just a question for me of which fork in the river to follow with the third unit. I'm torn between northern mountain and NW...but what do I know? If I can move the settler 1 tile to get coast, wheat or cattle then I may be persuaded to move that single tile.
Also I have read talk about moving settlers 2 tiles if food bonuses can be attained by doing this. As a beginner, I can't for the life of me work out how this could be of benefit. The start location is poor, but good enough to get a settler out to this "great" site pretty quick I would have thought. Especially considering Emperor level and 7 other CIVS on a small map. For me personally I think I may aswell string my settler up to the nearest tree, the end would be quicker, but no more certain.
LeSphinx
Bachogwa
Hello,
I like the scope of the game with the map of the world according to the civilization played. This put history in the game and I appreciate it.
I think my first move for the 1st turn will be:
- Go North with the conscript warrior to see that there is in the North, and see if there is be a better starting location.
- If the North is not good, send my worker to buil road+mine in the South grassland
- If no better starting location in the south, founded Istanbul in the starting location
In a small map on emperor level, I think 2 or 3 more warrior will be usefull in order to explore and expand quickly.
Then, building a settler will be usefull in order to expand.
In the beginning of the game, I will be expansionnist and preparing for a quick war with the neighboord around.
What is it best for a worker in grassland?
- Mine then building road
- Road then building mine
LeSphinx
I like the scope of the game with the map of the world according to the civilization played. This put history in the game and I appreciate it.
I think my first move for the 1st turn will be:
- Go North with the conscript warrior to see that there is in the North, and see if there is be a better starting location.
- If the North is not good, send my worker to buil road+mine in the South grassland
- If no better starting location in the south, founded Istanbul in the starting location
In a small map on emperor level, I think 2 or 3 more warrior will be usefull in order to explore and expand quickly.
Then, building a settler will be usefull in order to expand.
In the beginning of the game, I will be expansionnist and preparing for a quick war with the neighboord around.
What is it best for a worker in grassland?
- Mine then building road
- Road then building mine
LeSphinx
this'll now be my scond GOTM, with the difficulty on Emperor i dunno how good ill be able to do
but i am lookin forward ti it since ottamans is one of my favourites
and there siphai rule!
coz its a small map ill probably try for a domination victory
but i am lookin forward ti it since ottamans is one of my favourites
and there siphai rule!
coz its a small map ill probably try for a domination victory
LeSphinx
Bachogwa
I hope the HTTP Page Jason Score Calculator will be up to date before the 1st May.
Seeing the the max score and the score for the different victory type allow to choose a strategy too.
LeSphinx
Seeing the the max score and the score for the different victory type allow to choose a strategy too.
LeSphinx
Capt Buttkick
Emperor
I agree with LeSphinx on the Jason bit. In fact, that's why I haven't chosen what victory to go for yet. I wanted to try cultural, but that's probably hard on this map...
I agree with hotrod- this will probably play like a slightly underpowered Deity in many respects, if past maps are anything to go by, and I fear what cracker will do when we finally have a Deity game. 
This month we have industrious workers! The Ottomans are a great deal of fun, and I 
Sipahi (see Hot3 for details.) At Emperor, I think I actually prefer the UU later, as I might be caught up in tech enough to use it effectively. 
Persia is a strong civ, but sometimes I don't get a chance to use Immortals in time for them to be useful for anything but triggering a GA.
I won't say what I will do with the map itself yet as far as initial exploration on turn 1, as the old trick of right clicking on tiles to get a better idea of what they cover may change my decisions. The extra warrior (if that is what the third unit is) will look for any nearby high-food spots for a settler pump, as I suspect the previous posters may be right about the lack of bonus hidden food. If I find it nearby, I'll get a settler there fast, if not, I'll use the extra shields not spent on producing the warrior to finish my granary quickly.
Just a note to those not used to Emperor level: use lux tax judiciously early on. In the early turns, unless barbarians are seen immediately, it's better to uncover tiles with your warriors before you build your MP unit. (Entertainers early on are also a generally bad idea unless you are in a desperate situation or are the extra gpt it would take from an important tech deal.) Don't sabotage your economy once you get it going, but early on micromanaging the sliders can yield large benefits.
This month we have industrious workers!
The Ottomans are a great deal of fun, and I Sipahi (see Hot3 for details.) At Emperor, I think I actually prefer the UU later, as I might be caught up in tech enough to use it effectively. Persia is a strong civ, but sometimes I don't get a chance to use Immortals in time for them to be useful for anything but triggering a GA.I won't say what I will do with the map itself yet as far as initial exploration on turn 1, as the old trick of right clicking on tiles to get a better idea of what they cover may change my decisions. The extra warrior (if that is what the third unit is) will look for any nearby high-food spots for a settler pump, as I suspect the previous posters may be right about the lack of bonus hidden food. If I find it nearby, I'll get a settler there fast, if not, I'll use the extra shields not spent on producing the warrior to finish my granary quickly.
Just a note to those not used to Emperor level: use lux tax judiciously early on. In the early turns, unless barbarians are seen immediately, it's better to uncover tiles with your warriors before you build your MP unit. (Entertainers early on are also a generally bad idea unless you are in a desperate situation or are the extra gpt it would take from an important tech deal.) Don't sabotage your economy once you get it going, but early on micromanaging the sliders can yield large benefits.
Thanks for the tip Borealis. I figure that when the past two GOTMs were my first wins on regent and monarch levels, why wouldn't I win on Emperor too? Just kidding. I need all the help I can get on this GOTM, but I'll probably just make a nice statistic in the 'not-quite-ready-for-Emperor' section.
On the starting spot: a least there will be a high shield production even if no bonus food is in the area. I'm hoping for a extra worker to irrigate the plain tiles. I will probably move the worker W, as the grass looks greener downstream (as somebody said).
Another possible reason to move could be the two river-corners providing extra defence bonus for the city (yes, Emperor scares me!).
On the starting spot: a least there will be a high shield production even if no bonus food is in the area. I'm hoping for a extra worker to irrigate the plain tiles. I will probably move the worker W, as the grass looks greener downstream (as somebody said).
Another possible reason to move could be the two river-corners providing extra defence bonus for the city (yes, Emperor scares me!).
Actually it's not particularly high-shields for the early game -- all those plains tiles yield a shield apiece, no better than regular grassland (mined). There's only the one bonus grassland in sight. So we're short a bit on both shields and food, but at least our economy should be rocking!
Renata
Renata
LeSphinx
Bachogwa
Ive made a little test using the gotm19_graphics_test.sav files for PTW Civ 3 version. This game is ~the same than the one we will have to play (Deity level, small map) on May.
I try to manage the game using 2 differents way:
- Test1 : Found Istanbul in the starting location
- Test2 : Move the Settler 2 times in order to find a good location (near a food resource ) In this second test, I founded Istanbul between the Wheat and Insence.
Test1:
I built 2 warriors and start on building a Settler in order to colonize the good location near Ivory and Wheat. By 2470BC, Im meet 4 civilizations and in science, we are equivalent. Ive got 2 scouting warrior and 1 warrior in defense in each city.
Test2: I spend a lot of time in building the new settler and I just won the battle against 1 civ in order to colonize the very good area (Whales, 1 Wheat and 3 Ivory)! My cities dont have Warrior for defense! Ive got only 1 warrior remaining!
About research, with the TEST1, Ive got 1 tech more than with the TEST2 game. (Iron Working).
My conclusion is: In high difficulty, the more you wait in order to find your starting location, the more precious time you lose. In a small map, the other civs are very close to you!
Here are the 2 screenshots at 2470BC for TEST1 and TEST2.
I try to manage the game using 2 differents way:
- Test1 : Found Istanbul in the starting location
- Test2 : Move the Settler 2 times in order to find a good location (near a food resource ) In this second test, I founded Istanbul between the Wheat and Insence.
Test1:
I built 2 warriors and start on building a Settler in order to colonize the good location near Ivory and Wheat. By 2470BC, Im meet 4 civilizations and in science, we are equivalent. Ive got 2 scouting warrior and 1 warrior in defense in each city.
Test2: I spend a lot of time in building the new settler and I just won the battle against 1 civ in order to colonize the very good area (Whales, 1 Wheat and 3 Ivory)! My cities dont have Warrior for defense! Ive got only 1 warrior remaining!
About research, with the TEST1, Ive got 1 tech more than with the TEST2 game. (Iron Working).
My conclusion is: In high difficulty, the more you wait in order to find your starting location, the more precious time you lose. In a small map, the other civs are very close to you!
Here are the 2 screenshots at 2470BC for TEST1 and TEST2.
Attachments
LeSphinx
Bachogwa
Here is the 2 screenshots in 2470BC.
For me, in the GOTM19, I will:
- send the conscript warrior in the mountain North
- Send the Worker in the Est Moutain
- Found Istanbul in the starting location except in a good location is 1 tile away.
- built Warrior for scouting purpose
- built a settler in order to colonize a hopefully good area with lot of Wheat and lux!!!!!!!!
LeSphinx
For me, in the GOTM19, I will:
- send the conscript warrior in the mountain North
- Send the Worker in the Est Moutain
- Found Istanbul in the starting location except in a good location is 1 tile away.
- built Warrior for scouting purpose
- built a settler in order to colonize a hopefully good area with lot of Wheat and lux!!!!!!!!
LeSphinx
Attachments
@Renata: I'm by all means and purposes not an expert at this game, but for an industrious worker mining takes 3 turns, irrigation 2 (I tried it before I dared posting this) so this should be better at least then plain grass. After last month, having a river near your capital is nice!
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