GOTM55 Spoiler

ALI ,
'" What happens if you wipe out all your enemies in one turn? Reduce them one by one to one city then wipe them out all at once. Has anyone ever tried that?"'

Yes, I have , thats why I eliminate all Capital cities like on game 55 and leave one city from each civilization.THats my MO ALI , I take every Capital City , leaving one city left......( Scroll up and read my post )

Problem is , respawinings will ocur until 1400-1450 ,then after that turn it will be no more respawnings.

Game 55 , I took very early ... Moscow, Athens , and Trondhiem all BC . Then Madrid and Zulu'sCapital before 200 AC, then wiped out each city left . by 200 / 300 AD hoping the respawing civs will destroy themselves .

I know that next time I need to take a different approach.
Destroy Capital cities , and keep one city from each civ , then avoid respawning.
Wait until 1400 and conquer all cities without using Armies ...( IE Bribe them )

Then Go for Democracy and Go for Early Landing Conquest.

The problem on game 55 it was a never ending respawning...I have never seen....White turn 4 times , so did Orange..........and LIlac.....I destroyed Athens TWICE........and the Russians Twice......I counted 17 respawings.

Again by the time I finished.......I was so exhausted , and tired. that I have lost feeling for the game.

But Im an old Man...... , so I get tired easily........LOL
Again ecxellent Map ........Great work , OUstanding lay out...but at one point the game becamed Tedious.

 

Well, I just submitted. In the end it took me until 1754... :S And still I seem to have been lucky compared to you guys; I counted 'only' 7 respawns, 2 of which were wiped out by AI. In the end I squeezed out a few wonders just because I could and to try and lift my score.

This is not correct. I finished off the last AI city (Spanish) in 1750 and thought that was it, but the next turn the Egyptians popped up, LUCKILY on the same island and only a few spots from my main army. The penultimate respawn took place in 1570.

Why would you specifically use diplomats for that?
I know what I would do next time: let the AI figure it out and go for space as fast as possible.

 

Probably the best source of info on respawns is La Fayette's thread at 'Poly (though many questions are still not answered):

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106281

IIRC respawns end by 1500AD at Deity... maybe 1750AD (?) at Emperor, etc. There is no evidence that killing all the civs in one turn helps. Or that bribery works better than force. The basic anti-respawn ideas are - MPE for maps, a large navy, and killing off new respawns quickly. I offer more ideas in my EC guide.

IMO the respawn madness should not last more than 15 turns. AFAIK the worst cases have been about 18 - 20 respawns per game. With good preparation for the respawn madness phase, you can usually kill off 1 or 2 per turn. Of course, this is still pretty frustrating for an EC player.

@Ace: I estimate that one AI wipes out another AI in less than one third of my games with restarts off. The key civ is lost this way in less than 1 of 10 games. If any EL players disagree... how many of your GOTMs have been ruined this way?

 

The strangest thing happened to me while playing through this game. It's probably been witnessed before by some people here, but it was the first time I'd ever seen it happen. I was wandering all the way to the west coast with four caravans, when the mongols sneak attacked me. The caravans had already passed Mongol territory to the west and were exploring the Greek territory. The Mongols and Greeks allied against me, so my treaty with the Greeks had reset to "contact", apparently.

The greeks demanded that I give them Leadership. I refused, and they reply "We grow weary of your insolence. Consider yourself warned". Then I asked for peace, and they declared war on me for that!

Of course, just a few turns later, the Greeks call me up again looking for peace, even though there was never a single attack made upon either of us. I was able to talk them into handing me 600 gold for the cease fire and another 250 for the treaty to make it worth my while, and all was well.

 

About respawnings and when they end, I have allways belived that 1400-1450 was the end of restarts.It allways happens on deity level....
Maybe is a minimum amount of respawnings ??

I did that on game 49 or 51 ( the one with simplified combat ...grrrrrr ) and I kept one city from Celts, Greeks , Mongols , Spanish , Zulu's etc. and in one turn I took them all using diplomats, and the game was over.....no respawns.

Maybe was a lucky move, Im not certain.

Mr Y you asked me , Why will I use diplomats to take the last cities ?
Well If you are in Republic or Democracy , you may be overrueld by the senate to wage war, unless attacked first.

IF I would have play game 55 differently...I had built SOL , and change to Soft Fundy...save money for about 10 turns, Im sure that I could earn about 400-600 per turn or about 5000 gold in 10 turns.....THEN would have changed to Democracy, buy the necessary improvements for cities , and then try to get my reputation ( Atrocious ) to a better level. Kept the 6 AI cities to trade and keep them as puppets.

Since I have never played en Early Landing game ( still have no idea, how many parts or what parts are needed to build a spaceship ..is it better to send 10.000 or 50.000 colonists ? ), I knew that this will take another 6 or 8 hours of play...and I was not ready to spend another 6 or 8 hours......

Peaster mentions that having the MP helps to locate the other AI's Civz, And its true except I had such an bad reputation that nobody was willing to exchanged maps.....IF I had knew earlier the respawning Zone ( 13 respawns happen in East Zulu and North Zulu , the rest in East Spain and one in small Island...) I would have invaded Zululand from South West of the Butterfly and From South East....., I was betting most spawnings will occur on Spanish Land.....
That happened to the Spanish Armada when they tried to Invade England ...ohh well!!!!!

 

I have not played past 1100AD in over a year , so I cannot argue, but I think the consensus of other experienced players is 1500AD on Deity. If you are interested enough, you could test this pretty easily. Or read the threads to see if you believe them.

Not sure. That would make the whole thing more fair. But IIRC I once had a game with only one respawn (Deity, 7 civs), so I doubt it.

Again, I can only say that expert players in other threads don't believe this works. But it's hard to believe you had that much luck. Could this have happened after 1500AD ?

This is something I know almost nothing about. You mean the Senate will not overrule diplomatic actions, such as inciting a riot?

This sounds A LOT like my game. I built a city in North Zulu (around 100BC?) to contain the respawn zone a little. Also, the last Zulu city was near the SE corner, so I had units heading into that area anyway. I also built cities on the island and in eastern Spain just to keep respawns away. Many occured in the butterfly's tail, but I had many troops waiting there by 1AD. The hardest area to reach was East Zulu.

If I played this again, I would keep a better rep.

 

Peaster "This is something I know almost nothing about. You mean the Senate will not overrule diplomatic actions, such as inciting a riot? "

The senate will overrule an attack in most cases against a respawning Civ, if you are in Republic or Democracy.
Also they may overrule an attack IF the other civ ( the one you are attacking ) wants to have a Cease Fire etc.

My point is that , any opponent cities , of any civilization that have NO Palace are easy to be subverted ...for the right price.
For instance if you try to Subvert Kiev from the Russians and they have no Capital , you will get a message...IE" Kiev Residents will riot for 300 " May Cause incident........or a second option : Citizens will riot for X2 = 600 ( Causes no incident )...........if you " Buy " the city for 300 , in a Democracy or Republic your civilization will get into Anarchy , caused by International Incident .
If you buy it for 600 , the city will join your civilization and your reputation will not be affected.

I have subverted cities that still had a Palace, but largest city , near their Palace , depending on number of citizens will have a higher price.
Thats why sometimes I find usefull to build SOL and get into SOFT Fundy, for 10 or 20 turns and amass 10000 or 15000 in a few turns, before switching to Democracy

Regarding the Game I ended in 1400 or so ( when I used all diplomats to subvert all 5 or 6 cities Left , one from each civilization. )...I could look at the save..hopefully I had that saved....but I am sure that was not later than 1450. In addition I think I went thru 2 respawnings ,BEFORE 1400 , so again Maybe is a minmum ammount of respawnings.........

 

My game is now 1800, and i have finally disposed my continent of all but the germans (they popped up when i destroyed the vikings, i think) I am not used to restarts being on, and it is annoying for new civs to keep on popping up in the middle of my territory. i find it doubtful that i can win by conquest or spaceship; although i have more tech than other civs, i dont have very good military techs (maybe im just too used to using units such as tanks and helicopters) and i am a long way from making spaceship. I only have three wonders; gardens, leonardo, and michelangelo, and am unable to build any at the moment. unfortunately i have not built a navy or many armies, and have been unable to land and stay on other shores. if i get to build a spaceship, ill probably have to do a small one.
I still am enjoying it though, and nice map!

 

Restarts?
O no! Not with such a beautiful butterfly
This requires at least a big space ship...
= safe landing in 1549.

 

La Fayette? did u just say u landed a spaceship in 1549 ?!?!? its about 1910 for me and i still haven't discovered a single tech for spaceship, and i'm usually good at research (or maybe not. i should probably get more practice at high difficulty games. mostly ive only played up to the 4th difficulty level.)
I feel so pathetic around you people with all these early conquests and spaceships.

 

Yes I did (and it was the biggest possible SS, the one with 40 000 colonists onboard)...
... and there are at least 3 players who would certainly land much earlier if they had a try, namely solo, Zenon and stuporman.

Have you read solo's guide ?
Here is a link:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82209

You cannot expect to launch an early spaceship without having read that guide and played several games after that, in order to master high speed research, which is the key to that kind of games.

If you are interested, just let me know: I am ready to share my experience and try to help you improve your gameplay.

 

I am interested. I already read the excellent guide by Solo. I tried for an early landing last month but didn't make it until somewhere in the late 1800's I vaguely remember. I also replayed last months' GOTM and the one before that a couple of times, and the most important questions I have are:

- Do you stick to the 10 settlements Solo recommends or build more?
- At what point do you start building caravans in your helper cities (what improvements are present at that point) and do you save them for wonders or send them off to the nearest enemy civ immediately?
- Do you use internal trade, does the distance to the nearest civs influence that decision?
- Do you build colosseums?
- If salt tastes 'salty', why does sugar taste 'sweet' and not 'sugary'?

thanks,

mr. Y

 

1) There is a big difference between an early landing game and a GOTM: the scoring system of the GOTM is such that you will get a much better score if you land later but with a much bigger civ. I am going to reply about early landing, not big GOTM score.

2) I stick to 8 cities in Republic and 10 in Democracy (apart from some "space ship contractors" that get built very few turns before launching the space ship).

3) I start building caravans as soon as I get Trade. There are usually NO improvements at all in any of my cities when this happens. Most of these caravans are used to build early wonders (I almost never send an early caravan anywhere by land; if one is sent to a foreign city, it is onboard a trireme).

4) No internal trade in the early game, except if the SSC needs a trade route and no foreign city is available (but this happens very seldom, since I build Marco in almost any game).

5) I build colosseums sometimes (in games where I haven't built the Gardens or Mike, but I confess that I don't always follow solo's advice, since The Gardens and Mike are so cheap and so powerful).

6) Your question about "salty" should be asked a native speaker

 

I had a lot of trouble with this map. It was a lot bigger than I thought. I felt pretty good getting Trade from a hut in 1800BC, HG at 1350, LH in 950, and even better when I wiped out the Russians in 100BC with NO RESPAWN! (MPE in 75BC) But the logistics of just getting around were beyond my ability to anticipate. And I miscalculated badly on the potential for beakers from Trade. THe foreign civs were so trade-poor that no caravans delivered more than 96g. I ended up conquering in 1480AD (fortunately just before Lafayette landed...) with a supersize civilization in soft Fundy. Once I got there it was fairly efficient, but the Middle Ages were as dark as real life.

Peaster - what a result!!

 

Tx Grigor. BTW - I was curious what you would do with gotm54 (Ali's concentric arc map) - did you play it??