GOTM80 - Final Spoiler

[civ_steve]

GOTM 80 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

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How did you wrap it up? Playing Persia would lead one to play an Ancient Age type of victory, Conquest or Domination - did youdo this or pursue another victory type?

 

[DWetzel]

I have no idea if this is a really good time/score for a 20k or not, but it FELT pretty good. Comments appreciated.

Entry class: Open
Game status: Cultural 20K Victory for Persia
Game date: 1756 AD
Firaxis score: 4867
Jason score: 7193
Time played: 32:36:34

As I entered the Industrial Age in 1090 AD, drawing Medicine as my free tech, Egypt was on the ropes, falling in 1120 AD. That war yielded no more leaders. After building Bach's, Perseopolis started on a prebuild for a factory (later rushed for 428g), as I had no leaders, no prospects for getting any, and, sadly, no immediate wonders worth building. After the factory Perseopolis started on Universal Suffrage (switched to Magellan's as I traded Germany Physics for Navigation in 1210 AD), completing Magellan's in 1255 AD. After that Perseopolis got a coal plant, hospital, and bank in rapid succession.

Research was Steam-Industrialization-Corporation-Electricity-Replaceable Parts (to get the fast workers)-Sanitation-Sci Method, all in 4 turns, at varying science rates. Sanitation netted me about 280 gpt while researching it at 50%. Got a couple of rushed stock exchanges in and Perseopolis built Wall Street in 1320 AD (followed by ToE). In 1315 I traded Germany into the industrial age (getting Military Tradition, gpt, and cash for ToG+Magnetism); they drew Medicine. I gifted Russia up, they drew Medicine. Phooey. Two turns later Germany broke the deal with a MI attacking a guerilla on the far north tundra island. Jerk.

As it was obvious that technology was not a major problem for me at this point, I looked for a target for leader-fishing. England was the obvious choice for a couple of reasons: they were isolated, weak, and more importantly had never met Egypt. So I started creating a few galleons and gathering my entire army (I was alone on the continent with a rail net) for a mass assault on England.

Perseopolis created ToE in 1365 AD, and I took the usual Electronics slingshot (having researched through Refining and Steel up top). I actually had Ergili (my replacement for the Iroquois capital, with the FP) finish Hoover a few turns after that. Perseopolis, for lack of anything better to do (and because armies make great prebuilds) finished the Military Acaedmy in 1395. It then went for a commercial dock and stock exchange as no culture was available (I could have built Battlefield Medicine here, I guess, but I didn't.)

England was reluctant to grant a right of passage to me, but Free Artistry and a world map convinced her. So, I lined up my troops juuuuuust right.

The picture of England before...

Spoiler :

... and after. (Hey, I got unlucky at Nottingham. )

Spoiler :

Took Nottingham the next turn; finally sunk an English caravel (a tracking transport and two privateers sunk before a rushed battleship did the job) in 1445. Russia was to be next.

In 1470, I made a ROP with Germany to be able to sail up to Russia quickly.

Went modern in 1490, and drew Fission as my free tech (yay). Set research to Computers, then Mini, then Genetics. That let Perseopolis switch from the army build (its second) to the UN (later switched to Manhattan for reasons soon to be obvious).

It took a little while to reposition for attack on Russia (my next target), but in 1500 I sneak-attacked them on the tundra island and made mass landings on their west coast. With tanks against a rail-less Russia, quick and brutal was the order of the day. Got a leader in 1520; he hopped a transport home to wait a few turns for Manhattan to finish in 1535, then rushed the UN in 1540, then rushed an offshore platform (because I could).

By 1545 Russia was reduced to it's new capital of Riga, on the one-square island off the German coast. And I still had five turns left on my ROP with Germany, and a whole lot of tanks.

My third ROP rape of the game started in 1560, with me razing everything in sight except one German city that I kept for roads and a rushed barracks. And was it ever fruitful.

Got a leader in 1565; he was ship-chained home to rush The Internet.
Got a leader in 1570, he was ship-chained home and rushed SETI.
Got ANOTHER leader in 1570; he made it home but had to wait a turn for Genetics to finish, then rushed Longevity in 1580.

Declared war on the wimpy Vikings also, because I could (Germany had relegated them to island duty), and got one last great leader with a cavalry unit; Perseopolis switched from Cure for Cancer to Apollo, finished that, and then the leader rushed Cure for Cancer in 1625. At this point, the Vikings had two cities, Germany and Russia each had one.

That wasn't the last wonder of the game though. In 1610 I made the most peculiar tech move I'd ever made: finished Space Flight, then did Economics in 4 at 10%. Hand-built Smith's in 1675, then cash-rushed a couple more armies, then built Pentagon in 1705. Pushed Enter a lot until the game ended.

At game's end, Perseopolis had 20,023 culture, generating 149 cpt.

 

[krakedhalo]

Entry class: Open
Game status: Domination Victory for Persia
Game date: 1150 AD
Firaxis score: 5816
Jason score: 9421
Time played: 28:34:49

Hit MA in 390bc after meeting Russia, Germany and Vikings. Got Mono for free, didn't gift up anyone, but they figured it out soon enough. Russia got Mono, Germany got Feudalism. Aztecs were already gone, so I marched a dozen immortals over to Egypt and took a few towns, and 2 more for peace when it was time to march back to Iroquoisville. Iros were gone in 50ad, and as the war against Egypt ramps up again, I get a second leader.

My bright idea here didn't work at all. Anticipating the long campaign on the other continent, I put my leader and a settler on a boat, send them to an open spot on the Russian coast and in 290 rushed SZ's. I had the idea of bringing over large numbers of Immortals and taking on russia after Egypt fell. Unfortunately Russia didn't wait, took the town in 380. I brought in Germany and Scandinavia to keep Russia busy, made peace after 20 turns, and never again touched a Russian soldier. Didn't need to.

Rush Leo's in 470 with another leader. Never upgraded anything, but then no one else got the discount. Egypt fell in 510. Got the guys on boats in 610 to England, England lasted til 700. 780 the remaining Immortals, now mixed with knights, hit Germany who survive til 990 then turn to Vikings. They were down to one town when I hit the limit in 1150.

Research was turned off after chivalry, but I got the GLib out of German hands, and eventually bought Astronomy so I could get the 4 luxes shipped between the continents. Score could have been better I suppose, since even though I stayed in Monarchy throughout I never had more than a handful of MPs and the happiness slider at 0 the whole time. Still, not bad.

 

[LTJG Perry]

Entry class: Open
Game status: Domination Victory for Persia
Game date: 1774 AD
Firaxis score: 3319
Jason score: 5313

This game is embarrassed to be up here with all these world class champions. So excuses: MY first PTW game. Been playing C3C so long I forgot leaders could build wonders until mid game!

Didn't take very good notes either, so just a few impressions:

Aztecs never had a chance, the poor noobs starting in a desert.
I changed to Republic as soon as it became available, when clearly it would have speeded things up had I waited for Monarchy.
Did any one else do this? The 4 tile island about 25 squares NNE of Persepolis, I took over when the Iro's were dying. There were about 40 barbs on it. I put some heavy defenders next to them and they never attacked. Once I got Motorized, the first stop for my tanks was to go to the island, Leet up, then come back to fill in armies (I had 4 waiting by then.) Sweet trick, but really most of you had already won by that time.

 

[Scratcher]

Open, Space race victory in 1400ad. Firaxis 5976pts, Jason 9290pts.

The Persians entered the Industrial Age in 540ad. The entire age was pretty uneventful. The Iroquois and Egyptians were killed off and the continent developed as much as possible. I traded with Germany and Russia for GPT to help my research but my researched hovered around the 4 and 5 turn mark.

The Persians entered into the Modern Times in 1200ad, and again I haven’t really got the hang of this tech trade scam when entering a new age. I managed to research again around 4 and 5 turns per tech. The Russians made a late game Declaration of War with a sneak attack of one Modern Armour. Germany, Scandinavia and England were all bribed to declare on Russia. I lost some traded luxuries during this war, as the Germans had still not built a single harbour, and lost a few turns of research due to the use of the Lux slider. But I was about 6 or 7 turns from victory and apart from the inconvenience of a few bombed tiles the Space Ship was launched i9n 1395ad, game saved 1400ad.

Some dates noted:

540ad Entered the Industrial Age.
590ad Newton’s University completed in Persoplis
680ad DoW on Iroquois.
690ad Iroquois destroyed.
840ad DoW on Egypt.
850ad Egypt destroyed.
1070ad Hoover’s Dam completed.
1100ad Smith’s Trading Company completed
1200ad Persians enter the Modern Times
1220ad Theory of Evolution Completed
1295ad Apollo Progamme completed
1315ad United Nations completed
1340ad Russia declares war. MA agreed with Germany, England and Scandinavia against Russia.
1395ad Space Ship launched.

Research dates

540ad Banking discovered (50%, 4 turns) Enter IA
540ad Steam Power (free tech)
540ad Nationalism (trade Russia)
590ad Industrialisation discovered (90%, 5 turns)
630ad The Corporation discovered (90%, 4 turns)
690ad Steel discovered (80%, 6 turns)
740ad Refining discovered (100%, 5 turns)
790ad Combustion discovered, (90%, 5 turns)
830ad Medicine discovered (70%, 4 turns)
870ad Electricity discovered (90%, 4 turns)
910ad Scientific Method discovered (60%, 4 turns)
950ad Communism (trade Germany)
960ad Atomic Theory discovered (90%, 5 turns)
970ad Economics (trade Germany)
1000ad Electronics discovered (90%, 4 turns)
1040ad Replaceable Parts discovered (70%, 4 turns)
1080ad Mass Production discovered (70%, 4 turns)
1080ad Sanitation (trade Germany)
1120ad Flight discovered (90%, 4 turns)
1160ad Motorised Transport discovered (60%, 4 turns)
1200ad Radio discovered (90%, 4 turns)
1200ad Fission (free tech)
1200ad Computers (trade Germany)
1200ad Ecology (trade Russia)
1220ad Rocketry (ToE)
1220ad Space Flight (ToE)
1260ad Synthetic Fibres discovered (90%, 5 turns)
1285ad Superconductors discovered (90%, 5 turns)
1305ad Satellites discovered (100%, 4 turns)
1325ad Nuclear Power discovered (100%, 4 turns)
1345ad Laser discovered (100%, 4 turns)
1370ad Miniaturisation discovered (90%, 5 turns)
1395ad Robotics discovered (90%, 5 turns)

 

[Più Freddo]

@Scratcher: Why did you build United Nations and not SETI Program?

 

[Più Freddo]

Predator class
Going for a diplomatic victory

The Persians entered the Modern Age in 920 AD and built United Nations. Persia, Russia and England were at war against Scandinavia and Germany, which had both recently declared war on Persia.

Catherine of the Russians voted for herself, and that was it. I don't want to play another 20 turns.

 

[Scratcher]

@ Piu Freddo. My research was at 4 per turn, I had prebuilds for research labs in most of my main cities and I didn't want an AI to get the UN with a wonder cascade. I was just eliminating this win option.

Scratcher

 

[eldar]

Predator, Space win in 1435AD (bah!). Firaxis 6145, Jason 9315. (This I attribute to having the Pyramids in Salamanca for most of the game, so was working with a nice big population!)

And that was with 4-turn research from pretty much the mid-MA onwards. In fact I only missed one tech in 4 turns - Steel - by 1 beaker due to a little hiccup on the Barbarian Island.

On IA entry all the Sci civs, Persia included, got Nationalism

What killed my date, I'm sure, is not getting Lit early... Russia/Germany were helpful in the MA, predictably useless thereafter.

I made up time with my leap into the Modern Era:
- Persepolis finished ToE timed with last IA tech (Radio).
- Get Rocketry as my free tech.
- Germany and Russia get Ecology and Computers respectively. No trade right now but...
- Pick Fission as my first ToE tech. Trade for Ecology & Computers.
- Pick Miniaturization as my second ToE tech.
- Switch pre-build to Internet.
- Then use a spare MGL to rush SETI in Salamanca (Not the FP city, but in its RCP3 ring).

So that's 5 modern techs in one go, Research Labs all round, and SETI next turn.

I had a few wars... Scandinavia, then Russia jumped me (so I captured a few cities then razed Moscow...), then England for the final luxury and two sources of Oil.

 

[Chamnix]

Predator, going for space.

After entering the Middle Ages in 370 BC, I received Feudalism as my free tech. I was at war with both Germany and Russia for war happiness purposes, and neither would acknowledge my envoy yet, so I shut down research entirely to avoid duplicating their efforts and to accumulate cash and land before I started researching. Russia and Germany had received Monotheism and Feudalism and exchanged them, so I managed to trade for Monotheism eventually (giving up Engineering, I think).

I didn’t get Engineering until 50 BC, but I had very close to 4-turn research the remainder of the game. I abandoned my capital to jump my palace to Salamanca in 270 AD for my second core. It looks like I researched Theology, Education, and Banking in 4 turns each, then took 6 on Astronomy, but traded for Invention 2 turns before I was scheduled to complete it. That was all the assistance the AI provided in the Middle Ages.

I entered the Industrial Age in 520 AD and received Steam Power for free. Russia and Germany both got Nationalism. I researched Electricity first and gave it to both Russia and Germany so one of them eventually got Replaceable Parts for me. The AI also provided Navigation, Music Theory, Military Tradition, and Sanitation.

I was at war the entire game (more or less). I beat up on Egypt, Aztecs, Iroquois, England, and Scandinavia, but I left a couple of OCC AI for war happiness purposes. Although I didn’t push to get to the domination limit very quickly, I did eventually end up with about 63% of the land (under 100 tiles short of domination). Despite all my fighting, I did not get a single Great Leader until 960 AD, and he was my only one for the game. He rushed the Theory of Evolution because I wasn’t too happy with the timing of my prebuild for that one.

I entered the Modern Age in 1080 AD. I received Ecology, and Russia and Germany both received Computers. I rushed the Theory of Evolution immediately and chose Miniaturization and Fission as my free techs. I had an Internet prebuild timed to finish the same turn, so I could maintain 4 turn research throughout the Modern Age.

Spaceship launched in 1325 AD.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

Entry class: Open
Game status: Domination Victory for Persia
Game date: 1710 AD
Firaxis score: 4567
Jason score: 6836
Time played: 32:31:48

Settled in place. Settled my first cities at RCP 4 and RCP 7.

First war started against Iroquois in 730 BC. Signed a peace treaty in 150 BC, leaving them one city in so I could get Math from them.

Researched Republic in 50 BC and began revolt, entering Republic in 70 AD.

Aztecs declared war against me in 130 AD; I conquered them by 390. Meanwhile, I entered the MA in 300. I declared war against the Iroquois again to finish them off in 500.

Next was Egypt, with a war from from 640 to 730. They entered my territory in force in 950 and declare war when I demand they leave. This war ends with their destruction in 1295. In the same turn, Germany declares war when I refuse to give them furs.

I negotiate alliances with Russia and Scandinavia. This war continues as I enter the Industrial Age in 1320. Scandinavia suffers badly at German hands, finally being driven off their continent to one of the small, southern islands. But, in the meantime, I'm invading German territory, driving them off the continent by 1635, when they have one city exiled on an island, themselves.

Even with Germany being overrun, they get England to sign an MPP with them in 1605, which puts England at war with Russia and with me. I conquer the last German city in 1665, I capture some English island cities, and I gain Oxford, a small bridgehead on the English continent, from a peace treaty in 1705. I'd been filling in territory with new cities at ICS spacing all through these wars. One more of these in 1705 brings me to the Domination limit on the next turn. A fairly non-dramatic victory.

One mistake I know I made was in delaying the building of the FP. I kept hoping for a Great Leader to rush its construction in Salamanca, but I never got one of those until 1140. I finally built the FP the hard way, much closer to my capital, in 990. That probably cost me a lot of unnecessary corruption.

A curious thing about that little island off my continent's NE coast: it had two barb settlements on it and stacks of barbs covering all four of its squares for a while. If those barbs hadn't randomly opened up a square for my invasion, they might have lasted as an independent barb nation until the arrival of Marines! As it was, fitting in some anti-barb action with my other wars, they lasted until 890 AD.

 

[Andronicus]

20k

Finally reached in 1625AD

Entered Industrial age 780AD drawing free Medicine
At war with Egypt, still hanging out for first leader
Germany and Russia are financing my science as well as providing the off continent luxes

790 lose 4 elite immortal battles in a row (all against a damaged MDI on jungle) and a leader emerges .... for Egypt.
840AD Steam
900AD Industrialisation
920AD The Good - Salamanca completes forbidden palace (I had initially wanted a leader to rush but instead I chopped a court then hand built the FP. This dramatically improved commerce and production with all old Iroquois area becoming relatively low corrupt (one advantage of my wider spacing than usual RCP 5 and 10 around Persepolis)
920AD The Bad - My MM of shields to prevent waste in the capital by using coast has an unexpected complication this turn - Cops requires 25 shields to complete - no problem, I have extra so switch to use a few coast tiles (no harbour) I have plenty of food in the bin so a short term starve wont hurt ... but it does. The starving loses the WLTK day and that 25th shield now becomes corrupt so I go 1 shield short and thus 1 turn late on all my following builds.
940AD Music Theory - making lots of gpt which will pay for cash rushed factory and coal plant
980AD Navigation
990AD Finally ... I get my first MGL -> knight army (I traded for chivalry somewhere)
1020AD Sanitation
1060AD Corporation
1100AD PT Egypt as WW results in my requiring too much lux slider.
1100AD Electricity
1140AD dow Iro - take their 4 towns on northern island -> destroyed 1240AD
1140AD Scientific Method
1180AD Replacable Parts
1200AD give England boot (trapped a sword into trespassing) after demanding their town on my continent -> they dow. MA both Germany and Russia -> both to IA - Russia gets Nationalism and Germany Medicine
1220AD Steel
1240AD Vikes dow as had MA v Iroquois tied to PT
1255AD Refining
1275AD dow Egypt again
1275AD Combustion
1290AD Lose full strength knight army attacking reg musket defending London
1295AD Mass production
1315AD Atomic theory
1330AD English destroyed - no leaders in that war
1335AD Electronics
1340AD Salamanca switches from palace pre build to complete Hoover (it is actually out producing Persepolis)
1355AD Egypt destroyed - still only the one MGL
1355AD Motorised transport
1380AD Radio
1385AD 2nd MGL occurs fighting the vikings-> returns to rush a modern age wonder (UN) as ToE almost complete
1400AD Flight - free Rocketry. Gift Russia - fission, Germany rocketry. ToE completes and choose free Computers and Miniturisation. Trade for fission
1420AD Nuclear - rush nuclear power plant
1425 Trade espionage (Rus), get another (3rd) MGL in Scandinavia -> rushes Internet
1440AD Laser
1455AD Vikings destroyed precipitating war with Germany. Have MPP with Russia so they dow Germany.
1460AD Robotics - rush manufacturing plant (now making 138spt - Salamanca makes over 150spt enough for 2 turn tacticle nukes)
1465 4th MGL (where were these guys earlier?) returns to rush SETI
1480AD Space Flight
1500AD Genetics
1520AD Superconductor
1530AD MGL no.5 save for Longevity (Cure for cancer mostly complete)
1535AD Leipzig flips taking with it my store of settlers - I dont usually check flip risk in 20k culture games - looking back at the save the turn before CA2 gives the risk as 0.2 - 0.4% ... I guess its just one of those games
1540AD Satellites
1545AD power failure -> reload autosave
1550AD peace with Germany (having kicked them off their starting island) Near domination limit so plan to spend rest of game peaceful as further leaders wont improve finish date. However .. Russia demands uranium, naturally I refuse, they backdown. I put strong defences next to then just in case and dont renew rop.
1560AD Smart Weapons
1575AD Russia dow- they are no real threat
1580AD My 6th MGL -> army
1580AD Strategic Missile Defence
1595AD MGL no.7 -> another army (Persepolis rushes another to make 3 and can then build Pentagon, the last remaining culture building
1600AD Ecology (for a few mass transits - cleaning pollution is tedious)
1625AD reach 20k culture, Persepolis making 167cpt.

Final culture list
3900BC palace
2270BC temple
1700BC Colossus
1300BC Oracle
1250BC library
750BC Pyramids
330BC GLib
290BC colosseum
110BC HG
10AD GW
90AD cathedral
430AD Sistine
440AD uni
610AD Shakes
780AD Newton's
930AD Copernicus
1040AD Bach's
1070AD Heroic Epic
1130AD Magellans
1190AD Wall St
1270AD Univ Suff
1315AD Smith's
1360AD Mil Acad
1400AD ToE
1405AD UN
1410AD Research Lab
1425AD Internet
1465AD Manhattan
1470AD SETI
1475AD Battlefield Med
1500AD Appollo
1540AD Cure Cancer
1545AD Longevity
1560AD Intell Agency
1580AD Strat Miss Defence
1610AD Pentagon

 

[TheOverseer714]

I need to work on my 20k game, I had a finish date of 1828, and that was with about 5 wonders rushed. My score was:

Entry class: Open
Game status: Cultural 20K Victory for Persia
Game date: 1828 AD
Firaxis score: 3859
Jason score: 5401
Time played: 39:23:50

I guess just being my 2nd 20k victory, not too bad. I think losing Newton's hurt me, as did my not gifting up the other scientific civs to speed tech, though most of what I've read on 20k is to slow the tech pace. Oh well, at least I won in the way I chose to.

 

[Andronicus]

most of what I've read on 20k is to slow the tech pace.

I beg to disagree ... a good 20k date requires fast research, the sooner you get to Steam and Industrialisation (and Sanitation in PTW) the sooner you get a big boost in production. This also keeps you with culture rich builds available.

Perhaps the most important component is to get get size 12 with fully developed terrain ASAP. My early focus was on this, thus I built an early worker to develop more tiles and granary to grow rapidly. This differed slightly from my usual approach where I feed workers in from second city which builds granary, then workers and only settlers once the wonder city is size 12.

 

[Lanzelot]

Firaxis score: 4856
Jason score: 7002
Time played: 46:30:55

I have no idea if this is a really good time/score for a 20k or not, but it FELT pretty good. Comments appreciated.

Good job! You beat me by 7 turns! Looks like you played the IA and Modern Age much better than me.

790 lose 4 elite immortal battles in a row (all against a damaged MDI on jungle) and a leader emerges .... for Egypt.

Too bad you can't "capture" leaders like workers...!

I beg to disagree ... a good 20k date requires fast research, the sooner you get to Steam and Industrialisation (and Sanitation in PTW) the sooner you get a big boost in production. This also keeps you with culture rich builds available.

I had been one of those "advertising" a slow tech pace, but now I have to admit that you are right: I think the main reason, why DWetzel was able to catch up, was that I completely missed the point of when to speed up the tech pace! During AA and MA the slow tech pace was quite sufficient; I was able to get the techs as fast as I was able to finish the wonders, and everything was fine. But then I made two decisive mistakes: stayed in Monarchy too long and didn't jump my palace (palace & forbidden palace being just two tiles apart). Consequently I slowly began falling behind in tech and didn't even realize it, because fast tech had never been my focus in that game. I noticed much much too late in 1430AD, when I completed a Military Academy and noticed that I can start a pre-build for Theory of Evolution now, but then the next useful thing to build would be 9 very expensive techs away, and no 4-turn research possible!

Now something very strange happened: I decided to switch to Democracy immediately and then, while completing ToE, to reach the ModA as fast as possible. At that point CivAssist predicted my win date to be 1770, and I thought there would still be time to use one or two modern wonders to cut that date down by a couple of turns. What I didn't expect: during anarchy the city does not generate culture! I never noticed that before! As I drew 4 turns of anarchy, my expected win date was now 1778! And ToE plus a couple of small wonders plus UN, Research Lab and SETI just barely managed to get that date back down to 1770...

Perhaps I could have achieved 1768, but had very bad luck entering the Modern Age: my arrival in the ModA was scheduled at 1725AD. I had a prebuild timed to be ripe by then and also an unused leader in stock. Then in 1725 I finally went modern and got --- Rocketry!! I gifted up the Germans and they got --- Rocketry!!! I gifted up the Russians and the got Fission. Great, I thought. But they wouldn't sell it for anything in the world: I offered my Rocketry, 3 left-over optional techs (Communism, Espionage and Sanitation), 1100 gpt, 900 cash and 4 or 5 luxes!
So I had to do Computers myself, which meant another 5 turns, during which I had to take Pasargadae "offline" to prevent the prebuild from finishing... In 1750 it finally became reality: my first modern wonder. Much too late to have an impact on the game. Now Russia was willing to trade Fission as well, so I could complete the UN (which finally brought the finish date back to 1770). I immediately attacked the Russians to punish them and to retake an ivory town that had flipped back to them earlier (the only flip of the entire game...) -- and got a leader!! So I could have finished the Manhatten Project as well, but a quick calculation showed that this would not reduce the finish date, so I rather created an Army.

Four turns before the end of the game the Germans sneak-attacked me. I had already disbanded a large part of my cavalry to rush a couple of Marketplaces and Hospitals, so I really had to concentrate on that war to retake my territory. So instead of just hitting enter 4 more times and then submitting the game, this cost me another two hours late at night... And of course I got two more leaders in those four turns, when I no longer need them...

Final culture in Pasargadae:

2390BC Temple
1625BC Colossus
1075BC Oracle
_670BC Forbidden Palace
_270BC Great Library
_250BC Library
__70BC Great Lighthouse
__10BC Colosseum
_150AD Great Wall
_320AD Cathedral
_420AD Heroic Epic
_460AD Sistine Chapel (Leader)
_730AD Sun Tzu's Art of War
_740AD JS Bach's Cathedral (Leader)
_750AD University
_930AD Copernicus' Observatory
1110AD Magellan's Voyage
1270AD Shakespeare's Theatre
1275AD Smith's Trading Company (Leader)
1355AD Newton's University
1370AD Universal Suffrage (Leader)
Built/rushed two more Armies now because Scientific Method was not yet finished. This allowed
1430AD Military Academy
1490AD Theory of Evolution
1520AD Intelligence Agency
1555AD Wallstreet
1595AD Battlefield Medicine
1650AD Pentagon
1750AD United Nations
1752AD Research Lab
1754AD SETI Program (Leader)
1770 reached 20K. 148cpt. (Incidentally this is my favorite composer's birthyear!)

My first 20K attempt, and a very enjoyable and challenging kind of game: one needs to coordinate so many things: the right research path, the prebuilds, the AI wonder activity/cascades and the military campaigns for leader farming! I can only say: hats off to Andronicus for showing real mastery in this!

TheOverseer714: please also give us your list of buildings. Would be quite interesting to compare, and perhaps we find some points where you can improve.

Lanzelot

 

[ignas]

100K culture reached in 1275AD, Jason score ~ 10600

MA entered in 430BC.
Went ASAP for Education (learned in 290BC) and then shut off research for a while. Around this time started GA to help rushing and building culture.

Continent was mine and fully ICS'ed around 200AD. Then researched Navigation to reach other continent and ship luxes home. Domination limit approached in ~700AD.

Every city got library->university->temple.
In the end had 190 towns and making 1500cpt

 

[TheOverseer714]

Hate to seem lazy, but the thought of typing my timeline just... I don't know, so much work. I can do a screenshot of my CivAssist 2 culture page much faster, if that''s okay. Here it is:

Just comparing to Lanzelots list shows up a difference, I missed The Oracle and Newtons and I used my capital instead of a second city. Interesting to compare.

 

[Lanzelot]

I can do a screenshot of my CivAssist 2 culture page much faster, if that''s okay.

That's even better, as it also shows the total culture contributed by each building!

Just comparing to Lanzelots list shows up a difference, I missed The Oracle and Newtons and I used my capital instead of a second city. Interesting to compare.

My list is far from perfect, you should rather compare to Andronicus' list...
But nevertheless I'll give my two pence worth of advice...

I think in the AA we were about the same: I missed Pyramids & Hanging Gardens (8cpt), while you missed Lighthouse, Oracle and Great Wall (also 8cpt). Your Pyramids were quite early, but your Hanging Gardens were much much later than my Oracle, which probably gives me a slight advantage in the AA.
But in the MA it looks like you were too slow: I missed Leonardo's (2cpt), while you missed Newton's and Smith's (9cpt). Also all of your dates were significantly later, except for Sun Tzu's, which is only 2cpt:


Building................TheOverseer714...Lanzelot
Sun Tzu's Art of War.........450AD.........730AD
Sistine Chapel...............560AD.........460AD
JS Bach's Cathedral.........1260AD.........740AD
Copernicus' Observatory.....1150AD.........930AD
Magellan's Voyage...........1390AD........1110AD
Shakespeare's Theatre.......1490AD........1270AD

The MA is very important, as here we get some big guns with 8, 6 and 4 cpt. What have been the reasons for this? Too slow research plus bad luck with leaders perhaps (see below)?

Another important point is the non-wonder buildings, which can (and should) be rushed at the earliest opportunity. The Research Lab comes too late in the game to have any significant impact, but the other five are significant. We got the Temple at the same time and you got the Library 360 years earlier, but I got Colosseum 360 years, Cathedral 120 years and University 160 years earlier.

And finally it looks like I had better luck with military leaders: I had five "useful" leaders, which were used to allow an early Heroic Epic (420AD) and to rush the Sistine Chapel, JS Bach's, Smith's and Universal Suffrage. (I had three more later in the game, but these didn't have a significant impact anymore: one was used for SETI in 1754, and two more build Armies in the 1760s.)
From your list it looks like you had only three leaders: one for Sun Tzu's (450AD), one for Leonardo's (470AD) and one to enable the Heroic Epic in 860AD. I think instead of rushing Sun Tzu's or Leonardo's, you should have used your first leader for an Army. This would have had two benefits: Sun Tzu's and Leonardo's get you only 2 (and later 4) cpt, while the Heroic Epic gets you 4 (and later 8) cpt. And with a Heroic Epic around 500AD you may have gotten more leaders than you did in the actual game!

Cheers, Lanzelot

 

[TheOverseer714]

I think part of my problem was a late government switch, I was so busy with wars that even Monarchy was too harsh on unit support for awhile. I luckily got a moderate anarchy period, only 5 turns, and changing to Republic actually boosted my income. I will be looking for another 20k if I get time for Gotm 81, or Cotm51 is suitable for that VC.