Government civics: when to toss God King?

[avalonnn]

Just to state the obvious -- if you're playing the Kurio with just a few cities, stick with God King.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I would say that the obvious is, check them all, and stick to the better fitting your situation. I have tried them all, and, besides Republic, I do not think any other compares to GK, but it also depends on the circumstances.

Obviously, as avalonnn stated, Kuriotates and GK are one. There are certain civilizations that benefit better from Aristocracy or city states and, even more, Liberty.
The Sidar, for example, are better off with Liberty than anyone else.
The barbarian civs have benefits from city states(usually too expanded, too early), and Aristocracy.

So, I do not think there is a rule that dictates when to adopt what Government(or any other) Civic, except for what your specific needs are at the time.

 

[Sephi]

So, I do not think there is a rule that dictates when to adopt what Government(or any other) Civic, except for what your specific needs are at the time.

very well said

 

[bluedevil99]

That's crazy! You must run really small empires. Anything larger than 6 or so cities is a huge burden without Aristocracy or City States. And you can forget about conquest. If I can't keep my research rate at 80% or above, I consider that a failing economy.

This is a smidgen OT, but unless you're playing elves, why in the world would you want research at 80% post Mathematics? Nab yourself the Great Library, run lots of sages, then turn that slider down to 0-20% and exploit the heck out of the ridiculous happy bonuses from Gambling Houses. Toss in Scholarship later on and I really do think this blows the doors off most cottage-based economies.

Back OT, GK is a civic I used to run throughout for a lot of my games. These days I'm switching to Aristo asap. The only exceptions are with civs like the elves or Lanun, who can get food bonuses easily without farms, or obviously the Kurios.

And one more thing, because I don't think this gets said often enough. I used to like FfH more for the theme/atmosphere and unique military units. While I still love these things, I'm having a huge amount of fun lately playing with the civic and improvement combinations that often differ dramatically from civ to civ. Little subtle things like OO temples allowing extra early sages are tremendously powerful when realized and used. Maybe the best thing is, when I find a combination that just feels flat out overpowered, I'll be playing the next day with a totally different civ and find something maybe even more so. I have a hard time going back to vanilla civ, not just because of the lack of flavor, but because the strategic options seem so bland by comparison!

 

[Yarnosh]

EDIT: I do not see how 80% research can help you when you need loads of troops to defend/counterattack against an opponent when at war...

I don't normally need loads of troops to fight wars when playing against the AI because I usually have a tech lead and prefer fewer advanced and highly experienced troops to a huge stack of weak cannon fodder. The high research rate means I keep that edge.

I normally don't lose many troops. So by mid to late game, my main stack is unstoppable for the most part. By the AI, anyway. I am afraid that I'd probably suck against a human player.

The only real problem is that my "power" is almost always very low on the graph. So I am a target for the AI.

I still have no idea how you manage to keep GK with 18 cities. Even with both palaces. It doesn't even make much sense. With 18 cities, your capital is such a small part that the 50% bonuses dont' amount to much. What's so great about God King that you'd want to keep it?

 

[Yarnosh]

This is a smidgen OT, but unless you're playing elves, why in the world would you want research at 80% post Mathematics? Nab yourself the Great Library, run lots of sages, then turn that slider down to 0-20% and exploit the heck out of the ridiculous happy bonuses from Gambling Houses. Toss in Scholarship later on and I really do think this blows the doors off most cottage-based economies.

How do I exploit the happy faces? (can't say I ever thought that sentence would ever come out of my keyboard).

Doesn't the Great Library only allow sages in the capital? What about the rest of the empire? Don't I need guilds before I can run sages elsewhere?

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I don't normally need loads of troops to fight wars when playing against the AI because I usually have a tech lead and prefer fewer advanced and highly experienced troops to a huge stack of weak cannon fodder. The high research rate means I keep that edge.

I normally don't lose many troops. So by mid to late game, my main stack is unstoppable for the most part.

Depending on the difficulty you play,the type of map and relative proximity to agressive civs, you may or maynot need many troops during the game

I still have no idea how you manage to keep GK with 18 cities. Even with both palaces. It doesn't even make much sense. With 18 cities, your capital is such a small part that the 50% bonuses dont' amount to much. What's so great about God King that you'd want to keep it?

Not if you use your capital to build all your wonders + to have it loaded with Academies / Military posts / Specialists etc... In GK, my capital really is the heart of my Empire. It is very satisfying to see how that +3 Gold are transformed to +9 or more when applied to the capital. Also, buildings like the Money Changer or the Tax Office have their effects doubled at least when having a strong capital, and so do buildings like the Library and Alchemist Lab. Not to mention the speed that any new unit is produced. In order to achieve the same effects with any other Civic, you need to build tons of buildings that increase maintenance, anyway.

As I have already said, however, dispite GK being my prefered government civic, my actual choices are strongly influensed by my specific needs. There are plenty of cases where a "Strong Capital" is an inferior strategy, and adaptation is in order.

 

[JonathanStrange]

Here I though GK civic was a relatively minor civic used by religious fanatics, Ashen Veil fundies, and leaders who forgot to change civics.

What civics are being used alongside GK to run an awesome empire? Religious? etc. Any state religions? Any combos civics that matter?

 

[Sephi]

Godking+Arete gives plenty of

 

[JonathanStrange]

Ahh, the Labor civic Arete! It does get a +1 per mine, I can see how that would help any civic. Is there any synergies from the Economic civics Foreign Trade or Mercantilism? It seems to me, a smaller nation with a mighty capitol and little trade might use Mercantilism/GK as the +20% coins in the capitol would leverage GK's effect and offset the loss of any foreign trade. A bigger nation with strong or potentially strong foreign trade might do better with Foreign Trade/ GK. A country with GK/Arete/Foreign Trade would have the capitol as a production city while relying on other cities for coin? I can't keep 'em straight!

 

[Thunder_Gr]

What civics are being used alongside GK to run an awesome empire? Religious? etc. Any state religions? Any combos civics that matter?

I do not usually choose Merchantilism and I never use foreign trade. The rest of the civics are used as balancers of any situation, so that I can keep the government civic.
When at war, I choose Military State/Conquest. I also choose religion unless playing agnostic civs. Of course RoK/Arete is a powerful combination, if you can get it, since cash is flowing and production is a killer, not to mention the mines of brandur(3 iron usable without needing iron working). The most important, IMO, if someone wants to run GK for an entire game, is to make sure his capital is filled up with everything aquirable. GP special buildings, wonders, as much food as possible, production can also come from GPs, especially with some wonders/special buildings, the priests can produce enough money and production. Altars of luonnatar, also are very useful.
You sould always remember 50% of something is always more when the "something" is bigger. A GK running empire should ensure that this "something" is as big as possible for the capital.

I have not reached a fixed synergy of GK with other civics or religions, really.

 

[WarKirby]

I really don't like aristocracy. Food is too important to me.

I prefer to have a minimal amount of farming, using agrarianism AND beelining sanitation, so a few farms can feed my population, and free up the rest for more cottages/mines/windmills

Windmills in FF are awesome, by the way.

Generally, I'll stick with god king until my lesser cities are able to stand on their own.

Sometimes, I'll go with city states, beeline festivals, and spam thousands of cities everywhere. In those cases, City States is pretty much my choice until the end.

I really feel that Republic is underpowered. Who uses it?

 

[Senethro]

I really don't like aristocracy. Food is too important to me.

Yeah, I used to think like this as well until I had my ass handed to me quite convincingly in MP. After a few experimental singleplayer games using this new style I managed to win several 4/5 player Free For Alls against players who were skilled, but still stuck in the cottage mindset.

 

[Turinturambar]

Food is too important to me.

I prefer to have a minimal amount of farming

You are contradicting yourself.

The beauty of Aristocracy is that you can adopt it at a point where you are done with most of your initial expansion and are hitting your happy cap. Aristocracy converts the Farms into foodcottages and provides a commerce boost when you need it most.

 

[JonathanStrange]

What of Aristo/Agrairian combo? --- he says as we stray OT.

 

[bluedevil99]

How do I exploit the happy faces? (can't say I ever thought that sentence would ever come out of my keyboard).

Doesn't the Great Library only allow sages in the capital? What about the rest of the empire? Don't I need guilds before I can run sages elsewhere?

Gambling houses give you +1 happy per 10% of the slider being devoted to gold. Hence a possible bonus of +10 happy for turning the slider all the way down and relying exclusively on specialists for research.

The Great Library gives one free sage in the capital, BUT gives +1 beakers to sages everywhere. You will still need elder councils, libraries, and other improvements such as OO temples to run sages until Guilds or Arcane Lore. Keep in mind that in addition to allowing unlimited sages, the Scholarship civic also adds an additional +1 beaker for a total of 5 beakers per sage.

 

[Senethro]

What of Aristo/Agrairian combo? --- he says as we stray OT.

Along with a slightly odd minimal investment style, its a very powerful combination for warmonger or builder alike. Aristofarms, especially with Sanitation, still produce much more food than you need. You don't need Health buildings as you have too much food. You don't need early Courthouses as Aristo lowers maintenance. What you need are buildings that give specialists and happiness. So, pick two of Market/Elder Council/Library, always get your Temple and your Public Baths, consider Gambling Houses if the Undercouncil has lowered their cost, for military build producers of spammable units in 2/3 of your cities (Training Yard) and 2 more specialist buildings in the remainder (Mage Guild, Siege Workshop).

So with as few as 5-6 buildings, a religion and wide territory (aristofarms mean lots of settlers, fast growth of new cities but without the waiting time for cottages to grow) that gets lots of luxury resources, you can have a happiness cap of 16. An economy based on a large population gathering, rather than very specialised and expensive city improvements. And at this point you need to find something to do with all the hammers from the plains/hills Aristofarms food lets you work. I find Melee stacks to be a good investment.

 

[loffenx]

Apologies for the necromancy.

Some observations (made at work, a bit hungover, might bit completely off mark):

Running God King, the optimal choice would be to build the Great Library in another city than your capitol, then focusing on sages in all cities (councils, libraries, alchemy labs) while focusing on merchants (with apropriate buildings) and perhaps priests in the capitol. Is this correct?

 

[Worm4life]

The obvious way to offset the food loss of Aristocracy is to also go Agrarian. But maybe that is a given. Problem is that Aristocracy kind of forces you to keep using Agrarian. So I usually feel rather "stuck" with Aristocracy. I, personally, don't go aristocracy at all unless I am running a Financial leader. It is easy Commerce from teh beginning. Otherwise I depend on cottages and City States. I'm a fan of City States. The maint. reductions are just too good to pass up. Plus keeping Agrarian isn't important. I have more freedom with that civic category.

Why would you ever use any other civic in that category besides agrarianism? The only viable alternatives I can think of are guardian of nature for elves and foreign trade for Lanun.

Running God King, the optimal choice would be to build the Great Library in another city than your capitol, then focusing on sages in all cities (councils, libraries, alchemy labs) while focusing on merchants (with apropriate buildings) and perhaps priests in the capitol. Is this correct?

God King boosts capital commerce, which can be either research or gold so it doesn't matter which way your capital goes.

 

[loffenx]

No no it boosts Gold , not Commerce . Thus, running 100% science gives you no bonus to your tile-commerce etc.