GPP control and RiFE

[Divvu]

For the sake of both the OP and well me. *facepalms* How do you do that?

Just assign a specialist... IIRC you should get an yellow outline around forced specialists.
Remember to check when city size increases, or the governor won't add any new specialists.

 

[Celeborn]

PPQ : while on the whole I agree much more with you than with Sjru on the topics discuted here, I can't really allow you to say that.
If you open your eyes a bit, you'll see that Sjru is from Argentina. Ergo, english is not his maternal tongue (neither it is mine).
So IMO, you should be a little more tolerant about his mistakes, as the meaning of each of his sentences (save "consumist" ) is cleary understandable even with them.
Well, maybe, being french, I understand some of his mistakes more easily than you (English native speaker) as I am prey to the same deceptive cognates (faux amis).

See... I agree fully with Purple's post that you quoted, or rather don't oppose it or view that he can't say what he did. And I'm -not- English First Language. And there is a point at which it seems a person just ain't making the effort to be understood properly.

But then again I -am- a grammar and spelling nazi due to the fact that I'm not English First Language and so don't tend to accept that as an excuse for poor use of the English language.


But meh...



I digress. Would it be possible for the Automation AI to be re-written/adapted so it -doesn't- auto-assign healers to Civs that have a "no food needed" mechanic?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Hahaha ...
if you have no more ggp slots... any specialists becomes a healer....banzaï capt'n obvious !!PPQ : while on the whole I agree much more with you than with Sjru on the topics discuted here, I can't really allow you to say that.
If you open your eyes a bit, you'll see that Sjru is from Argentina. Ergo, english is not his maternal tongue (neither it is mine).
So IMO, you should be a little more tolerant about his mistakes, as the meaning of each of his sentences (save "consumist" ) is cleary understandable even with them.
Well, maybe, being french, I understand some of his mistakes more easily than you (English native speaker) as I am prey to the same deceptive cognates (faux amis).

Where do you people get the misguided idea that I am a native English speaker? Am I that good with it? Should I take it as a compliment?


But yes, Celeborn pretty much nailed the point. I have no problem with people messing up spelling or grammar for as long as it is understandable.
But I draw the line at once someone starts making up words and speaking Tarzan. Also, that whole impersonal pronoun referring to one self... it's down right creepy.

Edit: On the topic of the thread :
I never automate my cities.
I think I don't understand why one would do it.
I never have to micromanage it (only the construction side of it)
The city manager always chose the best plots for a balanced city and never assigne a healer. It will even change exploited tiles if some better tiles are created by the workers.

Well, while we are at it I newer automate anything at all.
It is my firm belief that not micromanaging even a single thing in your empire defeats the purpose of playing civ.

 

[Calavente]

Where do you people get the misguided idea that I am a native English speaker? Am I that good with it? Should I take it as a compliment?
But yes, Celeborn pretty much nailed the point. I have no problem with people messing up spelling or grammar for as long as it is understandable.
But I draw the line at once someone starts making up words and speaking Tarzan. Also, that whole impersonal pronoun referring to one self... it's down right creepy.

sowwy... thought you were
As for "making up words"... You know, it can be very hard. I mean, it's not making up words but more a translation error that makes a word up . You are sure you are using a real english word but are deceived by some faux ami...etc
as for the "refering to oneself"... i could make this error in said sentence : it could be that he was using your discussion as a base to generalise your behaviour. In that case, his error could make sense. Well I'm not sure I'm making any.

Well, while we are at it I newer automate anything at all.
It is my firm belief that not micromanaging even a single thing in your empire defeats the purpose of playing civ.

Now that I reflect on it... I never automated anything either... I tried automating workers, but as it "automates" depending on the cities' governor automation... it's buggy if you don't automate the city. Thus auto worker is not pretty.
(and furthermore, I don't think it's even up to date with the improvements' yields in 1.3)

 

[Venir]

I'm still not sure about the whole forcing a specialist keeps the AI from assigning healers thing. I'm all the time going into my cities and removing healers, and making them a different specialist. When I check back 10 turns later, there will invariably be new healers assigned (assuming city growth, of course). So what am I missing?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

When a city grows the AI automatically assigns the new citizen to what ever it thinks is best.
This happens even when automation is completely turned off.

You just have to manually check each city as soon as it grows.


PS. Are you new to civ? Because all this is not RiFE specific.

 

[tokala]

When a city grows the AI automatically assigns the new citizen to what ever it thinks is best.
This happens even when automation is completely turned off.
You just have to manually check each city as soon as it grows.
PS. Are you new to civ? Because all this is not RiFE specific.

What IS specific to RiFE is that a healer has absolutelely no benefit apart from increasing Health and generating GPP points. Vanilla specialist always provide something useful, even if is only one lowly , so there might be some justification for the AI to assign a specialist instead working a low yield tile.
However I don't see any reason why a healer should be assigned even over a 2 or 1/1 tile, if the city is way below the health/happy cap and will generate the next Great Person in a few hundred turns

 

[Venir]

No, I'm not, which is why I was wondering what I might be missing. People were explaining it like this special forcing specialists technique was going to make the AI stop automatically infesting your cities with healers. But of course all it apparently means is the plain old method of fixing it yourself by manually re-assigning them every time the cities grow.

Just sucks to check back on a city and find 2-3 healers there.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

What IS specific to RiFE is that a healer has absolutelely no benefit apart from increasing Health and generating GPP points. Vanilla specialist always provide something useful, even if is only one lowly , so there might be some justification for the AI to assign a specialist instead working a low yield tile.
However I don't see any reason why a healer should be assigned even over a 2 or 1/1 tile, if the city is way below the health/happy cap and will generate the next Great Person in a few hundred turns

Don't take my word for it but from personal experience it seems to me that when automation is turned off the AI automatically assigns the new citizen to the first available specialist slot starting from top down with no other consideration or plan.

 

[Valkrionn]

What IS specific to RiFE is that a healer has absolutelely no benefit apart from increasing Health and generating GPP points. Vanilla specialist always provide something useful, even if is only one lowly , so there might be some justification for the AI to assign a specialist instead working a low yield tile.
However I don't see any reason why a healer should be assigned even over a 2 or 1/1 tile, if the city is way below the health/happy cap and will generate the next Great Person in a few hundred turns

That won't last. Healers are now granting 4, 1. They are actually reasonably useful, and more than provide a return for the citizen (unlike the current stats, in 1.3).

 

[Mikka]

What is happening that seems to be causing problems:

Player goes to her city, checks it, and says "Okay, cool." Player tells the game to not let her city become unhappy, by clicking that nice button that glows gold.

City grows! City sees that, say, it has a max of five health but has five unhealthy. But City also has a lot of food! "Ooo," city says. "I'm making enough food that I can grow, but darn that unhealthiness! I know! If I tell a citizen to stop working that tile and become a healer, I'll have FOUR MORE HEALTH! Therefore I can grow and still be healthy! I am the most awesome city ever!"

So City does exactly what it thinks it is programmed to do: it sees it shouldn't grow if it's unhealthy but wants to grow if at all possible, so it makes itself healthy by assigning itself a specialist.

Unfortunately, this means player suddenly glances up and notices that her GP bar is calling for 80% Great Phys chance (which right now is a pretty bad thing, although I understand patches'll do something about that), and realizes that trying to get rid of the silly healers is going to starve her city down three sizes and backlog her in riots.

Player can somewhat avoid that by the simple means of choosing a specialist herself. Run and build yourself the Elder Council in your city as soon as possible, then assign a Sage/Elder/Whatever-They're-Called. The city won't assign any specialists unless it is forced to (Player receiving a free one being the most common reason, or having a city in a somewhat unfortunate place where all tiles possible are worked (IE, on the water before researching 'work on water' tech)). However, while trying to meet your 'do not grow unhealthily' command, the city will have to jump through hoops. It'll end up putting citizens to work on useless plots when they would be much better off being a specialist. And it is harder for it to regulate itself: if you suddenly get an event that turns a no food plot in to a yum food plot, you might end up growing unhealthily because the city has a nervous breakdown. So yes, some micromanagement is required. Generally, I check every time the city grows, every time I change civics, and every time I end up searching through my cities to try and remember what buildings are where. That tends to work good enough.

...I have absolutely no idea how Captain America and Communism ended up in this thread, and I read it, so. Confused!

 

[ExMachina]

The side effect for that is that you must micromanage the city plot and everything. In practical terms, is that, unless you like to do the same thing over and over, would get boring and uninteresting the more cities you want to micro, to the point of being painful. Worse, you'll have to check that city often to monitor it's changes.

I actually think this is a perfectly valid point. The city automation AI sucks, and there is no really satisfying solution in-game. It might be nice if somebody added a "no specialists here" button.

 

[Opera]

I'd even go as far as want it as a player option. I just hate it when specialists are forced in my cities!

 

[Valkrionn]

Player option would actually be easier to do.

 

[Venir]

Honestly, even at 4 and 1 I still don't think they'd be worth using. They'd only provide enough to cover themselves and 1 other population while consuming 2 and mucking up your GPP pool. The added beaker is negligible.

There are so many better things to do with 2 than trade it for 2 and a beaker.

 

[Calavente]

and what do you think of a priest ?
1 1 in exchange for : 2 and 2 ? (4 if no more in store)
or a craftsman : 2 for 2 and 2
a is generally evaluated as worth 1 and 1/ as 0.5,
meaning priest and graftsman are respectively worth 1.5-4 = -2.5 and 2-4= -2
doesn't even pay for themselves.
plus you have to add the +3gpp...

it's just that with healer, you see directly the balance exchange : 2 and 2 for 4 = sum 0 +1. (=+0.5, while priest and craftsman are -2.5 and -2)

And it's true it also depends on the great healer being worth something as a GH.
(a GH settled giving: 6 (or more) would account for the of 3 new pop... making having a GH worthwhile ...)

and if you add given by civics /wonders, a healer is like all gpp : worthwhile

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Don't forget that the primary value of specialists is the GP points. The yields are secondary.
Perhaps what is needed for the healer is to decrees the healer points to 50% of what they are now and have the other 50% be blank GP points.

 

[Calavente]

PPQ : it doesnt work that way IIRC.
a healer giving 1healergpp + 2 blank gpp would have exactly the same effect on the % chance great healers being created.

there are some threads on gpp calculation but can't find them right now.

edit :
gpp are given by additionning number of ggp points.
% chance of emergence per type is given per ratio of "number of source X"/"total number of gpp sources" (regardless of how many GPPs each source had contributed!)

see my post there for some explanations.. but that's clearly not the best post on the subject Furthermore it is related to the grigori in FFH, the mechanics for adventurer generation being different in RifE.

Edit2 : that post/thread is way better than mine as it is the cfc official strategic information on gpp!

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Ok, so that won't work but as an idea it is interesting. Or at least something similar.
Because the greatest problem with using healers so far is that they pollute the GPP pool.

 

[Torugu]

Easiest solution would be to buff the Great Healer... Since nobody is complaining about Great Engineers polluting their Altar victory pool...


I understand there are some buffs planned for GH in 1.31, though I'm not entirely sure which.