GR15 - AWE on Ultra Huge Map

[vmxa]

Well as to overseas, that is very far in the future as you cannot send anything with a galley and no Navigation or Astro or Mag. I agree that is what has to be done soon to hurt them and slow things down, but not before we get some of the required techs.

 

[vmxa]

Ok,, here is the save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/42522/GR15_AD0950.SAV

Not much progress I am afraid, got a good start, but fell abck after that.

 

[vmxa]

Note these are in DAR form, rather than AAR.

Pre:
I found all the settlers and I am not sure where the two in Gergovia should go. They could go up the coast or to the interior.

I am also not sure what the gallies are up to or even why we have them. It looks like they were going some place, but not sure if that is the case or they just were moved to a picket station.

Builds all look good to me, but I did swap a citizien in Middleburg to a taxman, no need for it to grow right now and may as well ensure they are as ahappy as they can be with their new rulers.

The stack of cats by Eindhoven I am also not sure where to send it or to leave it. Will read the log again to see if action was in that area. It does not have enough escorts to send into foreign lands. it is too slow to travel with any armies with so much open land to cover.

IBT:
Takes about 4 minutes till I get the control back. No action, just some units moving around and vacating Middleburg.

860AD:
Too mnay cities.
I irrigate a mined grass at Cataractonium to get more food as it is size 7 and would stop at size 8. It already has a market, so may as well get more pop there.

5/5 MDI kills Russian horse at Viroccnium (1-0), goes redline.
5/5 MDI kills another Russian hore there (2-0).
4/4 MDI retreat horse,
4/4 MDI kills the retreating Russina horse (3-0).
1st (yellow already) kills last russian horse around Viroccnium (4-0).
1st kills hop there as well and covers MDI (5-0).
2nd kills hop (6-0).
6th kills hop at troy and 8th kills the MDI and captures 2 slaves (8-0).
I do this on the presumption that they would have went into the city and been harder to kill.
Gergovia need taxman until the MP can get to it.

IBT:
Units stream down near Troy towards Viroccnium and others above Middleburg to Viro.
No attacks.
[8-0]

870AD:
1st kills hop and MDI at Viroccnium (2-0).
5th kills 2 hops in Troy and 6th kills one and razes Troy (3-0).
Sorry I did not note the gold, if any, did get 4 slaves.
Found New Aleisa and start a temple.
Too many cities.
MDI kills Russian spear by Lezoux (4-0).
I am trying to list where the battles are to give a feel for where the action or lack of it is occuring for the next player.
5th kills Greek MDI heading towards Viro (5-0).
5TH kills Gr MDI at old troy (6-0).
I consider starting a palace pre for leo's, but I am not sure if we will get Invention, before Ed. I have a few turns on the Knight to see how things shake out.
[14-0]

IBT:
Lots of Mayans coming our way and Russians as well. Forget the pre as sumeria completes Leo's. They have Great Wall and SoZ as well.

880AD:
4/4 knight kills hop near Cumae (1-0).
4/4 MDI kills hop between Middleburg and Gerovia. I have 2 settlers there and get too many cities (2-0).
5/5 GS kills Gr MDI and gets a leader (3-0).
Form an army, but want to fill with knights, so will wait for them to get here.
The only wonder of interest in this age now is Smith's. It will probably not be within our reach, unless we get the others in wars soon.
4/4 GS dies on MDI in grass, so MDI finishes it (4-1).
3rd kills hop and covers MDI as lots of greek units are near it (6-1).
4th and 7th find Kamina...

IBT:
No fights, but.. I see a Russian knight at the Mayan city. Greeks are trying to get back into the core area from the north and passing Middleburg.

This is why I was talking about not having much in the way of gaps in the empire prior to rails. We have lots of fog areas and cannot have any post to to see what is going on.
It would take stack of 2 pikes and a 3rd unit to be safe.

We can leave large tracts open in previously foriegn lands as no one can found a town. If they get in someplace and raze one of ours, it will be hard to get it up again with the limit.

Now that knights can be expected, we have less time to react and pikes could be killed.

[18-1]

890AD:
Too many cities.
3rd kills hop on mountain near Middleburg, which has 4 and 5 stack of greeks next to it and 2 other units on the other side (1-0).
8th sits on the road to Neapolis to make Mayans and russian get off the road a bit.
4th kills pike and 2 JT's and raze Kamina... for 25 gold and 3 slaves (4-0).
7th kills russian knight (5-0).
Found New Lugdunum, start temple.
[23-1]

IBT:
Nothing

 

[vmxa]

900AD:
Put two slaves on a moutnain in Alesia to get a road and mine eventually in case we want to build something there one day.
7th kills 2 jt's (2-0).
2nd kills hop (middleburg 3-0).
Too many cities, so I moved one of the settlers off the road and where it gets the fish and gives max tiles to New Alesia.

[26-1]

IBT:
Greece starts Sistines, so Ed will likely be next for them.
Gr MDI attacks pike covering the settlers (1-0).

[27-1]

910AD:
19 russians passing by MiddleBurg as do an undetermined number of Greeks.
5th kills 2 jt's out of stack heading south along the coast (2-0).
2nd kills Russian horse and spear at Middleburg (4-0).
5/5 GS kills hop at Rutupiae after it was redlined and captured a cat (5-0).
I moved the pike and MDI with two settlers to a hills till the area is cleaned up some.
4th struggles and kills Russian knight (6-0).
8th kills 2 Mayan MDI's (8-0).
one knight into 9th.
[35-1]

IBT:
More units stream past Middleburg.

920AD:
knight kills redlined hop (1-0).
knight kills Gr mdi these are both near Rutupiae (2-0).
MDI kills another Gr mdi there (3-0).
1st kills 2 russian swords near Middleburg (5-0).
6th kills Russian MDI and 2 spears there. All of these are on mountains (8-0).
9th makes its debuet and kills Russian mdi near Neapolis (9-0). It is full.
Bad break, the galley does not see any borders, but sees a Nipponese worker and we must declare.
Since I am already in the soup I move the galley its last move and see a colony.
So sami's will be visiting soon, sorry.
5th kills jt and 2 mdi on the western coast (11-0).
8th kills russian knight and 4th kills mdi (12-0).
Too many cities.
Knight kills russian MDI (13-0).
2nd kills russian spear and mdi at middleburg (15-0).
[49-1]

IBT:
Got a bit of a surprise. 4 russian mdi's were able to reach two knights on a mountain and killed one of the knights and retreated the other (2-1).
Then 2 more Mdi's found the exposed MDi at Rutup and kill it (3-2).
Edit this, I was mistaken. I see now that I have the turn that the MDI is still there, so make it (4-1). This is where the 2 settlers are on the hill.
Those long roads fooled me, I though the MDI stack could not reach.
[53-1]

930AD:
Too many cities.
7th kills the 2 russian mdi's (2-0).
2 knights kill 2 russians near Rutup (4-0).
9th makes its might known and kills 3 russian mdi's and get a promotion (7-0).
3rd manages to kill only one russian spear (8-0).
Note I probably flagged some of these as russian that were mayan.

[61-1]

IBT:
Iroq builds Sistine. Looks like thier traits an MW's are doing fine.
Gr mdi dies attacking knight near Rutup and it goes elite (1-0).
Gr knight attacks pike in Eindhoven and retreats.

940AD:
4/4 GS kills the knight (1-0).
4/4 knight retreats from hop near Rutup.
3/5 knight kills it (2-0).
9th kills russian knight in the west (3-0).
9th kills mdi (4-0).
Too many cities.
Back settlers up another tile with a large stack next to them. Not sure yet exactly which town they are headed towards, but none have enough to do much to the stack right now.
Trying to get some cats over there and a few knights to try to pick off some.
[65-1]

IBT:
Nothing. The russians moved around the settlers and seem to be going for Rutup.

950AD:
Moved cats to rutup.
9th kills jt and mdi and heads to the barn (2-0).
knight kills mdi (3-0).
8th kills jt north of Virocc (3-0).
4th kills hop there (4-0).
3rd kills 2 russian spears and a sword at Middleburg (7-0).
7th kills russian spear there as well (8-0).
I stop here.
[73-1]

Lackluster to say the least. 3 armies are headed out north to find Greek towns. Knights are coming to the Rutup area and it has a lot of cats. I am hoping the stack keeps coming that way and not turn around.

I have about the same number of settlers as I started with. The tide from the west should be under control now. Armies in Middleburg to thin out some of the passing units, but units are coming form the north east as well.

 

[M60A3TTS]

OK, I got it.

 

[Greebley]

If we can play the GLib right we don't need to slow down the other civs. We learn Education when we meet advanced civs that find us by crossing the ocean.

I don't know about slowing down other civs. The map seems too big to me to be effective. If we can't get armies across until we have Magnetism, then what good does it do us? We still have to research there.

The only reason I see to go across see would be because a single civ we know knows Education. However currently, since Theology isn't known I don't think this is a risk. If we can hurt Greece quickly we may not have to ever face them getting it. A bigger problem might be Russia as we are not sure where they live.

I still hope though that we could kill them all before they get Edu or before another civ gets across the seas. We will have to see of course. It does require us to be very aggressive.

 

[vmxa]

I have no idea if this a contient and island or what. If we have no other civs on this land mass, than the ones we already know, then we can do as you say. Kill them before they can pass us Ed.

Russia is a very long way from Ed, so they can be last. The problem for us we just about get a handle on the incoming and can start to get on the offense and we met andother civ.

During my turns, Mayan and Russia sent a lot of units and Greece as well. This is now blunted, I hope and we have another window to get out with some armies.

Depending on how many leaders we can get, we may or may not be able to keep pressing, once Japan starts coming in numbers.

The other problem is that they have so many places to come at us, we cannot just focus and have to defend in several areas.

The front is so large, it is hard to get cats into the action. We at least now have Knights getting into the fray. That will let us gets some elites and hopefully leaders.

I like the idea of waiting for them to come to us as we know they will be close to the end of the age techs. We just have to keep from having anyone here with Ed, before we met two of them.

If the landmass is much bigger or worse has yet another civ on it, we will be unable to clean the whole place in time.

The Greeks have to be first and they seem to be north and east of us. The MDI and GS units will be hard pressed without cats to back them. The core now is a fair distance to the front and even farther to any new foriegn towns.

 

[Greebley]

Ya meeting another civ makes my stated plan much harder - probably impossible. My hope was that we were on a smaller land mass.

Note that my post was a cross-post of sorts - I forgot to refresh before posting so even though time had passed, I was looking at the thread from before.

If we think that 2 or more civs will get Education before we do then we could try going across water to find the other continent. My guess though is that this will fail and we will waste a lot of Galleys = shields. The distances are going to be too far so we would have to survive 10 turns to make it.

I still don't think finding the borders of our continent is a bad idea. Meeting Japan at least tells us something about the land mass - it would have been nice to find the border first so we could retreat, but that isn't always possible. We should discuss about whether we are ready to do this - meeting another civ soon would put two rushes close together.

As far as the gaps in fog - We can try to put some towns in them so at least our front line doesnt have too big gaps.

 

[Greebley]

One other note - Invention and Gunpowder are both more likely to be researched before Education. The reason is that both have units associated with them and AI research is heavily biased towards techs with units.

This is why getting gunpowder from the GLib is common

Its all chance though.

Edit: Japanese still have horses - that is a good sign. If only Greece is tech advanced we might have a chance here. I cannot check the Japanese techs because they won't yet speak to us.

There is a fourth luxury on our continent - that makes me more inclined to think our continent is big. That is half the Lux so it may be that 1/2 the civs are on our continent. Likely there are more however (lux distribution on land masses matches civ distribution at 8 civs - not sure how that is handled at 31 civs).

 

[vmxa]

I agree we have only a tiny chance of getting any suicide runs to work on this map. Not worth the pain probably.

No real idea on the landmass, but is look like it may be quite large. The 4 lux suggest we are on a large landmass, but it could be limited to 4 civs. We can hope.

 

[ThERat]

4 luxes are on our continent? That would mean a big continent with far more Civs...

we eliminated 2 so far and know another 4 currently, I fear there are more lurking. It seems Sumer and Iro are the Civs that do well as usual (snatching all the wonders).

I would start researching full steam once we have gunpowder and go for Cavs. We might be able to get economics after that to get Adam Smith. Thus, libraries have to be started one fine day.

I would also not send out any suicide galleys or caravels, no point really. But, once we have galleons, we might want to send some 3 unit Cav armies. It doesn't matter where we land then, we can always start to do some damage and gain more cities.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Quick update. On turn 3 and we will be picking up theology and invention from the Greeks and Mayans next turn. They and the Russians have 13-14 cities, so there's no new civs to be bumped off any time soon.

 

[ThERat]

On turn 3 and we will be picking up theology and invention from the Greeks and Mayans next turn

I'd say time to start some libraries in our core cities...

 

[M60A3TTS]

Also a relatively bloody turn set so far. Contrary to what might be gathered from earlier reports, there were 20+ Russian swords operating in the Gergovia area and not enough troops to deal with them.

 

[vmxa]

Quick update. On turn 3 and we will be picking up theology and invention from the Greeks and Mayans next turn. They and the Russians have 13-14 cities, so there's no new civs to be bumped off any time soon.

I hope they start working on the lower track or we will be self researching.

 

[vmxa]

Also a relatively bloody turn set so far. Contrary to what might be gathered from earlier reports, there were 20+ Russian swords operating in the Gergovia area and not enough troops to deal with them.

Sorry I only knew of the one stack that you could see. Did it turn around? How do we deal with tricks like opening a town for them to attack? Is that a no no. I was thinking about that and given that we have taken units out to lure them, I was not sure what was allowed.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Need tomorrow to finish. In a nutshell, the Mayans are stalemated in the west. The road is blown, so his units get halted in the woods, then redlined by cat piles and killed by MI and assorted others. In the east, the Russians are finally cleared out and the best the Japanese have are horses. The Japanese are physically still a bit farther away. In the center, the Greek cities are getting hammered by our GS and knight armies.

 

[M60A3TTS]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_1030AD.JPG

 

[M60A3TTS]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_1050_AD.SAV

Preturn- Rush knight in Augustodurum for 48 gold. Switch to cathedral in 1. Rush knight in Camu for 220 gold. Switch to cathedral in 1. Hurry knight in Lugdunum for 56 gold. Switch to courthouse in 1. Agedincum knight>courthouse. Hurry knight in Arausio for 228 gold. Switch to cathedral in 1. Switch Axima from market to courthouse. Fire taxman at Forest Gump. Rush granary for 132 gold. Switch to courthouse in 3. Monguntiacum market>granary. Note we’re now hitting 90% corruption in 6 towns. Glanum pike>courthouse. Ravenna treb>courthouse. Lindum knight>courthouse. Lezoux market>MI, rush for 128 gold. Switch to courthouse in 5. Ratae Corum market>courthouse. Iron Hills treb>courthouse. Far Mount pike>courthouse. Switch Durocoturum from aqueduct to MI, hurry for 16 gold, then back to aqueduct to speed delivery up a turn. Fire clown in Viroconium. Knight redlines against a JT west of Neapolis. GS finishes it off. (1-0) Vet pike covers red knight.

Military situation is Russian stacks in the vicinity of Gergovia which threaten the city, or our opposing adjacent stack . Other Russian stacks north and south of Middelburg. Advance with knight west of Cumae and find a 3hp Russian knight. Kill it. (2-0).

IBT- My western foray turns into a debacle as the Mayans kill the pike, GS, and knight I sent in that direction (2-3) The Mayans and Greeks have chivalry and have knights. Japan has horsemen spotted up north. Russia is sword intense and lacks chivalry.

Turn 1 (960AD) Merge two workers to Augustodurum to push it to 20 spt. Kill Russian spear and sword at Middelburg. Kill JT, sword, spear and archer with GS armies (8-3) Move the 3 armies to vicinity of Thesalonika. Middelburg GS armies deal with two Russian swords and archer. (11-3) To get the situation in the west under a bit better control, knight pillages road and falls back. Upgrade 13 cats to trebs. Take a forted stack and retreat to Gergovia. GS army kills JT and MI. (13-3)

IBT- Lose knight to Russian sword, Greeks lose knight to defending pike.
(14-4)

Turn 2 (970AD)
5th GS army razes Thessalonika and captures 13 gold. Two defending hops eliminated
(16-4) 6th GS Army kills two Mayan MI (18-4) Red Greek knight killed by GS at Eindhoven. (19-4) Honeycomb Hideout founded near Cornish Hen. Russians lose 2 spears and 8 swords and an archer by Nemausus. Lose a knight. (30-5) Rush temple in Cornish Hen for 60 gold. Kill 2 Mayan JTs and knight west of Neapolis. (33-5). Kill a Russian sword and spear by ruins of Thessalonika (35-5)

IBT- AI moves forward

Turn 3 (980AD) Kill 4 Russian spears and 8 swords by Nemausus. Lose an MI and GS. (46-7) Kill Russian sword and spear at Middelburg. (48-7) Six Mayan JTs and 2 knights killed in the west (56-8). Lose a knight. Pick off a hop near Viroconium. (57-8)

IBT- Russian sword dies against our knight, then a second sword kills it. Greek sword impales itself on pike behind walled city of Eindhoven. Second Greek knight redlines there. (59-9) Theology and invention in. Gunpowder next.

Turn 4 (990AD) Kill the red knight at Eindhoven. 7th Gallic army at Cumae kill 2 Mayan MI and JT. (63-9). Russian archer and sword die by Nemausus. (65-9) Knight there kills Russian spear. (66-9) Trade GS for Greek MI. (67-10) Then kill 4 more outright. (71-10) First Gallic army kills Russian spear by Rutupiae. (72-10). Kill Mayan knight, JT and MI in the west. (75-10)

IBT- Mayans kill a pair of knights, Greeks kill a pike. Mayans lose a knight.
(76-13)

Turn 5 (1000AD) Kill Russian spear, 3 swords and an archer by Nemausus.
(81-13) Kill hop at Rhodes (82-13) 3rd GS army kills Greek knight and Jap horse. (84-13) Kill Greek knight and Jap archer at Eindhoven. (86-13) 5th Gallic sword and 8rd Gallic sword kill 3 hops and an LB at Pharsalos. No gold. Raze the city, but 5th Gallic is redlined. Glevum founded. OK, kill a Mayan knight in the east and get an MGL. Form Knight army. (91-13)

IBT- Mayans lose a knight, Greeks 2 hops, but the third kills the 5th Gallic Army. (94-18) Japan gets in the act and sinks our galley by Izumo. (94-19) Greek MI captures a settler because I didn’t think he was on a road. What a lousy set I’m playing.


Turn 6 (1010AD) Kill the hop that killed our army. Kill 3 Greek MI by Gergovia. Kill Greek hop and MI by Glevum. Kill 2 Mayan knights out west after redlining them with cats. Trade a Russian MI and spear for an MI. GS at the Hague kills Jap horse. 2nd and 6th GS army each kill a Greek knight.
(106-20)

IBT- A lot of Jap horses and a couple Greek knights on the right, Mayan knights on the left. Maya loses a knight attacking a forted one on the hill. (107-20)

Turn 7 (1020AD) Kill hop with knight army defending Rhodes. 6 Jap horses each killed by one of our knights. Get hop and Mayan sword by Rutupaie. 6th GS army gets two Greek knights, 2nd GS army 2 Jap horses and Russian spear. Mayan knight, JT, and MI killed in the west. 3rd GS army kills Jap horse. Lose a galley to a Russian one. GS goes elite at Eindhoven killing Jap spear. (126-21)

IBT- Japs kill 2 knights and lose 2 horses. (128-23)

Turn 8 (1030AD) 6th GS army kills 2 Jap horses and Greek LB. Elite knight kills elite Jap horse and we pull another MGL. Form another knight army. Knight army loads up and kills another Jap horse. Kill 2 Russian archers, a spear and a sword and they are FINALLY cleared from the western woods. 5th knight army kills 2 hops and a Greek town is razed. Three Cow Town founded. 2nd GS army kills Jap horse. GS kills Mayan LB in the west. 7th GS army kills Greek knight. Looks like we now have the front stabilized. Rush buy several settlers as our inventory is thin. (142-25)

IBT- Spoke to soon. Lose a wounded MI to Greek knight. (142-26) Forest Gump riots.

Turn 9 (1040AD) Kill Russian spear and sword at Middelburg. 4th and 8th GS armies and a knight kill 3 hops and a LB. Thermopylae captured. MI kills Greek knight that got our MI in the IBT. 7th GS army kills hop and sword, Russian I believe. Trade MI for Greek knight. (152-27) How many knights does Alex have??? Mayans lose 2 MI and LB in the west. Short rush a cathedral in Curovernum. (154-27)

IBT- Mayans lose 2 knights. (156-27)

Turn 10 (1050AD) Abandon Thermopylae. Durango founded. GS army finds Athens. Lose an MI, kill Mayan pike, 2 LBs. 9th knight army kills Greek knight. 7th GS kills Greek LB. Knight army kills vet hoplite. (162-28). 2nd GS kills Jap archer. Kill Mayan knight in the west. (164-28)

And done. Running single scientist with GP in 46. We can do gunpowder with 80% science in 10 at -168 gpt. We have 9430 gold, so we should consider going ahead. The other civs still have no techs to buy. As mentioned, the Mayans are stopped west of Neapolis, but we need to get a town down there for quicker healing. 99.9% sure there are no longer any AI units behind our lines. Some of the armies need to get healed up. Greece is weakened in the center, and the Japanese crawling about in the east. We can push ahead easiest in the east and center.

Despite the wretched loss ratio, the 3 AIs are losing in power, with the Greeks getting the worst of it. Five cities at 20 spt is providing a good supply of knights. I pillaged roads in territory we have no immediate use for to slow down the AI advance, given the relative distances we each have to travel. That prevents knights from appearing out of nowhere and picking off certain units.

Seven settlers are available for areas we can settle in. Max food locations would seem to be best given their corruption levels now.

 

[madviking]

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