GR2 - Sherman's War (C3C AW).

[handy900]

Barbslinger

Sorry about mistake boo-boo on the spreasheet! I just built it, and apparently laid an egg on the IC tile. I'll fix it tonight.

Is the barracks build in LSU a temple pre-build? Depending on how quickly we can get CB and establish cities to the west of LSU, we may not need barracks LSU. If it's a wonder building site we will want a temple for happiness & border expansion. Maybe walls for protection depending on how quickly the settlements to the east can be done. But we won't be building alot of military there. Consider Temple + walls in this city unless it's going to come under attack, in which case a barracks will be needed.

 

[barbslinger]

Originally posted by handy900
Barb,Edit to Slinger please. I laughed when I read this. Never realzed the short version cold be that!

Sorry about mistake boo-boo on the spreasheet! I just built it, and apparently laid an egg on the IC tile. I'll fix it tonight.

Well we'll fix it. right now the 7 turn works fine with the incense hill to keep science jacked.

 

[Greebley]

Looks like our empire is growing nicely. Still no Aztecs? It is odd that they have sent noone south at all. I wonder if we could get away with a few 4 turn settlers. If we get our towns down early we would have more power when they do show up. I guess it would depend how quickly they could send their troops.

We may want a spear in our city as well, so the more expensive Jav thrower isn't the main defender.

TMcC, it is looking like you are up next as Gingerbread man is still MIA. Feel free to post your I got it. If/When Gingerbread man does show up, he can be placed back into the roster and take his turn at the normal time (i.e. he will go after Handy900)

 

[T_McC]

Alright, I got it. I'll either play tonight or tomorrow morning, depends how the spirit moves me.

I disagree with Handy on the build order in LSU. We will be expanding the borders by settlement, so a temple will only be useful for happiness, and this won't be a concern until LSU outgrows our capital. I feel we also need a second military-producing city, as the Aztecs (or somebody else) will eventually figure out we're alive. It's too early to pre-build for the G.Lib, and having a second good shield military city will allow us much greater operational flexibility to build settlers out of the capital. (The southern city of the two-city front will be a bit corrupt in Despotism, so may not be able to build its own troops quickly enough.) If the Aztecs come quickly, we'll need about 8 more military units for our cities. If they leave us alone, we might have 8-10 cities before they start attacking. Either way, I'll build barracks in LSU first, leaving the walls as a later, shorter build. I might even try to sneak a granary in, as LSU doesn't have any bonus food, and bigger is definitely better for building wonders. I'll only try that if we can establish the two-city front in peace.

In the capital, I plan to go spear-spear-settler (timed for growth to 7). This will take either 7 or 8 turns, depending on where the forest chop goes. I think it is possible to MM for this, but worst-case scenario we spend 1 turn at size 7 before spitting out the settler. I'd like to keep the capital at size 5 or greater, to retain the option of having 10 spt when we need it. I hope by the end of my turn to have the two-city front founded, and be well on the way to 2 spears/1 javelin + walls in each.

I'll also try to push the workers to jump-start the walls in each new city with a forest chop. Then the workers will double back to improve the area around LSU.

After The Wheel completes, I figure to head for Alphabet --> Math. I think catapults are more valuable to us than swords, particularly because our 30 shield attack unit of choice will usually be our UU.

Oh, and I'll try not to run out of money. And before anyone asks, I'd start the G.Lib pre-build soon after we start researching Writing, provided our research time for Writing is < 20 turns. [Figure we'll need ~40 turns to get 400 shields, (LSU starts at size 5) and Lit should be 1/3 to 1/2 more expensive than Writing.] Just a guesstimate, it all depends on the situation on the ground.

 

[Greebley]

Sounds good. We might want to build units in our wonder city and just spam settlers and workers in the capitol once we get it up and running (and before we start the wonder). We don't even need a granary as we can add workers to make it grow. Since our shortage is more shields than food, this is probably a good way to go.

Also, you mention a turn at size 7. Does this empty the granary? If so you might as well insert a worker in there as it will be equivalent to the food lost when you go to size 7.

 

[handy900]

I was thinking temple in LSU mainly to increase the # of happy citizens. More citizens to work tiles without using the lux slider. I didn't want to have to turn the lux slider up for 1 city only. Temple just seemed more useful to me than barracks, but it's not a big deal. Again, not a big deal, but I'd build walls first to avoid the possibility of having to switch the barracks to walls in an emergency, resulting in lost shields.

Greebley, I agree it's a good idea to add workers to LSU if we need to in order to boost production.

 

[barbslinger]

The chop will go to barracks in LSU. I think that the temple, worker addition and other concerns for LSU will be completely dependent on when we get 1st contact. Up to that point I would think barracks and military and maybe a pop rushed temple if pop growth gets out of control. The mountainous area leads me to believe it will grow slow. We WILL need military, no doubt about that. The townfolk knows that General Sherman is a war monger and has a hair trigger temper, completely hates any other races existence and would like to see some armament in town in case Sherman goes off.

 

[T_McC]

Originally posted by Greebley

Also, you mention a turn at size 7. Does this empty the granary? If so you might as well insert a worker in there as it will be equivalent to the food lost when you go to size 7.

The food box empties on the transition from size 6 to 7. This is why one should try to have the settler complete on the turn the city grows to 7. I think this results in a half-full box at size 5, but I have no idea how that actually works. I'll see what happens in this game.

@Handy - We are already using the lux slider for one city (the capital). We shouldn't have to raise the lux tax just for LSU until it is larger than Tecumseh (likely size 6). If war comes soon (or we farm some barbs) and we have a nice collection of ... erm ... "involuntary" labor, we can certainly build a temple before a granary and rely on worker merges for growth. May be worth slipping temples into both Tecumseh and LSU when time allows, as we do need to conserve cash.

I also agree with Bar ... er ... Slinger that LSU is shield rich and food poor. It will have 7-turn growth until size 6 in despotism (food surplus=3, hence thoughts of granary). After we switch gov'ts we will have to irrigate over some mined grassland to maximize the number of hills that can be worked.

 

[barbslinger]

How does AI determine where the chop goes to? I just noticed that the chop is halfway between both cities.

 

[T_McC]

Heh, did you just read the subject and think something bad happened? Got ya!

GR2 - Sherman's War

Well, we only have two cities and a third will be founded on the next two turns. Once an Aztec unit is sighted we are at war. Dotmaps are agreed upon, so little thought to where the next 3 or 4 settlers will go.

2150 BC (0)
Do a little MM, set Tecumseh to 10 spt, growth in 4, spear. Leave LSU on barracks. Can't say where the forest chop will go. Wheel due in 5 at break-even, we have 2 gold.

2110 BC (1)
Chop went to Tecumseh. Tecumseh: spear --> spear. Send spear to future site of fourth city. Have to dial science down to not go broke. Both workers move to chop forest for Bull Run (yet to be founded).

2070 BC (2)
Bull Run founded, starts walls. Both workers set to chopping. Adjust sliders, Wheel in 3, +1 gpt.

2030 BC (3)
Tecumseh: spear --> settler. Spear moves to future 4th city site. Aztecs found city that will eventually lock borders with our 4th city.

1990 BC (4)
Chop completes. Workers move to road toward 4th city.

1950 BC (5)
Discover Wheel. Research to Alphabet in 8 at -1 gpt (we have 13 gold). Aztecs start Pyramids. Good, now we can capture them instead of wasting all those shields building them. Spear covers workers building road. We have horses behind Tecumseh.

1910 BC (6)
Nothing.

1870 BC (7)
Tecumseh: Settler --> Spear. Growth to size 7 then back to 5 results in half-full food box. I really can't say how the various checks are applied to arrive at that result, but we'll take it. Keep Tecumseh at 10 shields to build another spear. Bull Run: Walls --> Barracks. Move Javelin from Bull Run to cover settler.

1830 BC (8)
Nothing.

1790 BC (9)
Tecumseh: Spear --> Spear. Will be sent to Bull Run. Settler in place to found 4th city.

1750 BC (10)
Found Shiloh. Shiloh starts on Walls.

Still haven't seen an Aztec unit.

Notes for next leader: (Greebley)

After the current spear build completes, we can have two spears and a javelin in each front-line city. Shiloh already has its full complement, as I expect that to be the first battle ground.

The conscript warrior is moving back to be the second garrison at LSU. We will complete the barracks next turn, and then if walls are necessary they could be a 1-pop whip.

One thought for the next worker project is to complete a road between Shiloh and LSU.

We should try to keep Tecumseh at least size 5 at all times, to retain the ability to make 10 spt there.

We are 5 units under our support limit.

 

[T_McC]

Our little corner of the world:

and the save:

Sherman in 1750 BC

 

[barbslinger]

That forest next to Shiloh will have to go somehow. Even sacrificing, what is it 3 to chop, may be needed. Walls immediately too, somehow. Tall order but it will be close. they won't come knocking for a little bit yet because they are fortified with probably a spear, so the chop would be OK if you can get 3 there ASAP. We may get some horsies to raze it so they have a longer walk home if we don't kill them. My fingers are crossed for getting a spear Army when war starts to go and shatter their production destroying mines all over the place. Muhahaha!:soldier:
If we could send 3 horsies with an Army we can raze cities too. (more sinister laughter)
Is first ring city settling up now for less corruption and military?

 

[T_McC]

After the workers finish their mining (next turn) they can be sent to that forest, taking the newly-produced spear from Tecumseh with them. The chop will only take two turns if both workers are used, and we can cover them with two spears for that time. Then they can go back to the core, and allow the two spears to go back to the two front-line cities.

Spear armies are nice, but Javelin armies can be really destructive. Pillage and Capture! Also fits with the theme, as Sherman had many slaves following his army.

 

[barbslinger]

Originally posted by T_McC
Javelin armies can be really destructive. Pillage and Capture! Also fits with the theme, as Sherman had many slaves following his army.

How does that work Would you have to raze the city? So take 3 javs along, make a circuit of pillaging and then return slaves home? So after razing we fortify to heal. This sounds like more fun than my test game. Used Spears there, damn, hope I have a save from back then, wanna try that!

 

[T_McC]

The way it works is that since the army would be essentially a knight on offense, you pillage a little, and wail on any stray units you happen across. One out of three tries, that unit has to come along for the ride. Since armies get free pillaging, I don't think that shepherding the slaves around would really slow the army down.

I am working with a large, untested assumption: That if a Javelin thrower is the unit showing when the army is victorious, it retains the ability to enslave.

This does sound kind of fun, as in addition to ruining the enemy production, the enemy units almost have to run away from the army for fear of getting captured.

 

[handy900]

Originally posted by T_McC
@Handy - We are already using the lux slider for one city (the capital). We shouldn't have to raise the lux tax just for LSU until it is larger than Tecumseh (likely size 6). If war comes soon (or we farm some barbs) and we have a nice collection of ... erm ... "involuntary" labor, we can certainly build a temple before a granary and rely on worker merges for growth. May be worth slipping temples into both Tecumseh and LSU when time allows, as we do need to conserve cash.

Good points.

Way to go T_McC

Our little empire looks good. Wonderful news about the horses.

Pillage & capture sounds like a lot of fun. I decided to play a solo game as Mayans to get the feel of C3C and the slave feature is really handy!

 

[Greebley]

Looking good I got it and should be able to play tonight.

I am guessing we somehow gained Aztec contact. You only get told about builds starting if you have contact as far as I know. Perhaps we got contact with our close towns?

I will definitely check on my preturn. If anyone has access to the save to see, then feel free. I am at work and can't check myself. My guess though is that I will get to play the first war turns.

We went a whole rotation without contact. Pretty amazing. I hope it doesn't mean that the AI ignored our land due to a nearly complete lack of resources or

 

[barbslinger]

Is contact when they knock on your door or do you have to knock on theirs if they come up on diplo screen? When I played I was prepared to call war if I got a visual of a unit. I never checked the F4 figureing they would knock when they saw me. However, I pulled up my save and hit F4 and there was Monte. What is exact rule. I'm liking the visual rule and never hit F4 until you run into them, have a sighting or they pop up to say hi. After that the same goes for other Civs. This is however my 1st AW and I am ignorant to the exact definition.

 

[T_McC]

Well ...

In regards to contact, I think the Aztecs showed up on F4 by the end of Handy's turn. (The save should still be there, so if anyone cared we could check.) When it got around to my turn I was also going to wait to see a unit, or for Monty to come to us. I don't think this is traditionally the way AW is run, but no big deal. We're just playing a different, combination variant: Tactless AW.

I would be perfectly comfortable if Greebley decides to declare on the Aztecs on his first interturn. I would also be equally comfortable if he wanted to wait until he could "see the whites of their eyes."

 

[barbslinger]

I like that visual.

"Hey, your new around here aren't you?" Sherman sneers.

"Why yes, pleased to meet you", Monte says politely.

As the spears entered Monte's flesh Sherman was heard in a blood curdling scream, "DIE, Injun, DIE!"

Vs

Emmisary to Emissary, glad to meet you, my boss said to tell your boss that we're at war, come on over if you want some.