GR2 - Sherman's War (C3C AW).

Preturn: War declared on Aztecs. We did have contact. Now things get fun.

Decide to go +1 food, +2 shields to get shiloh's walls up.


IBT: No movement yet.
LSU: Barracks->Spearman
Tecumseh:Spear->Worker

1725 BC (1): Raise lux to 10%

IBT:
Tecumseh: Worker->Javalin thrower

1700 BC (2): Workers are mining bonus grasslands near our wonder city. lower lux to 0

IBT: Aztec Warrior (but not a jaguar warrior - hut?) is seen.

1675 BC(3): Lower science to 60. Move a jav so both are in the town nearest the warior.

Science: Alphabet->Mathematics in 15 at 0 gpt (80% sci).

IBT: Aztec archer seen.

1650 BC (4): Jav thrower attacks warrior and wins. No worker, but our Golden Age starts. Forgot about that little detail. Not that we could/would want to put it off. Lux back to 10% Still at 0 gpt, but math is in 11 now.

Note that during our GA, it is equivalent to mine regular grassland as bonus grassland as both give 2 shields. I will want to build mines on the normal grasslands so we don't require the forests to be above 10 shields.. We can get full shields without needing the forest.

MM for the GA - Math in 10

IBT: Archer fortifies outside our territory

Tecumseh: Jav thrower->Worker
LSU: Spearman->Walls

I625 BC(5):
IBT: Warrior seen near other town. It too is a regular warrior??? Hmm, they need warrior code for Jaguar warriors, but start with it. A conquests bug? Am I missing something obvious?
Tecumseh: Worker->Settler

1600 BC(6): New worker starts work near capitol. In 4 turns we will get a culture expansion and pop the hut. I change the settler to worker to try to get clever and not be building (or have) a settler when this occurs. That way it could be a settler (otherwise not).

IBT: Archer advances into the forest.
Tecumseh:Worker->Walls

1575 BC(7): Decide the odds are good enough to attack the reg archer with a vet jav. I almost lose (redlined jav).

IBT:
LSU: Walls->Jav thrower

1550 BC(8): Explore getting Math in 3 instead of 4 but it costs too much to do.

IBT:
Tecumseh: Walls->Spear
Bull Run: Barracks->Spear
Shiloh: Walls->Barracks

1525 (9): Send Spear in LSU toward Tecuseh in case we get barbs from the hut.

IBT: Another Aztec warrior shows up.
Hut gives us a warrior.

1500 BC (10): Switch Tecumseh to a settler in 2

Well I didn't build new towns, but got our defenses up and walls. Handy, I would seriously consider having Tecsumah building a settler every 3-4 turns and let LSU and Bull Run build military. With only one anemic enemy, I think more units is not the way to go. It has been long enough for the units to show up. If we get several more towns up during our golden age it will really help things along I think.

My recommendation is to build a warrior, settler pair every 4 turns. If the Aztecs do show up with troops (possible, but probably not a whole lot), then behind walls I think we have plenty of troops to make sure we don't lose a town and will have time to switch back to military. We can get 6 settlers by 950 BC this way. If we are fighting one monarch level AI who has already been in a long war, we don't need to play the "normal" AW type game and get strong.

Now that the horses are within our radius, you will probably want to assign a worker to connect.
I moved two workers onto an incense hill. The plan was to road it to get more gold/research when we need it. Probably I should have gone for the horses first, but I would still road that hill first as to not waste worker turns. It won't take long with us being industrious, and we have plenty of workers.

Workers can also be added to LSU or other towns if needed.

On contact, we can have two choices:

1) As soon as you know they are on F4, you must declare war (i.e as soon as possible that you know about) - but you are allowed to trade first.
2) Tactless. You don't have to contact right away them, but NO trades of any kind allowed ever. They are totally beneath us and are not worth even talking to.
3) Jihad (my name for it)
a) We never try to make contact and never trade. They are totally beneath us If they contact you, declare war right away (you are actually killing their diplomats). Otherwise, you can declare war by attacking a unit.
b) All foreigners are put to the sword - all towns razed, all foreign workers are disbanded/killed.
c) This variant is better if you don't look at F4 or diplomacy, ever.

I made no trade on my turn (I did declare war, but we could still do 3 if ppl wanted). Do ppl want to vote?

Anything else and our game will be "easier" than normal. Given our start, I don't think we need that leg up.

Given our start, I bet we could win with 3 which is probably the hardest of the variants and ppl wanted a challenge.

Post your thoughts on this. I was sort of thinking of 1), but have always wanted to try 3) so I would love to try it if others liked the idea as well.

The save

No picture since not much has changed.

Handy, you are up.

Also, when you post the name, edit it so it starts with GR2_ (use caps). That way you can sort the upload list alphabetically and find it.

------

Roster:
Greebley (JUST PLAYED)
Handy900 (UP)
Gingerbread man (MIA)
BarbSlinger (ON DECK)
TMcC
 
Official GOT IT.

Too late to play tonight. I'll play Friday night, so you all have 24 hours to tell me what to do :)

Greebley, I agree about kicking settlers out of the capital unless we see more attacks than expected.

AW Variant 3 is okay with me, but so are 1 & 2. No strong preference, so if others have strong inclinations I'll go along with whatever.

Sorry about missing the F4, I seldom check F4. I just declare war when I spot a unit, or they contact me.
 
I like the idea of:

1. If they show up in your territory, patiently wait until they get within striking distance, check trades cash but no gpt, declare war, kill them.
2. If they show up knocking, trade that turn for tech, cash but no gpt and then declare.
3. If they show up on diplo while checking status on current opponent, trade if possible, declare.

They are beneath us and we'll get the best deal out of them before declaring.
 
Originally posted by Greebley


On contact, we can have two(?) choices:

1) As soon as you know they are on F4, you must declare war (i.e as soon as possible that you know about) - but you are allowed to trade first.
2) Tactless. You don't have to contact right away them, but NO trades of any kind allowed ever. They are totally beneath us and are not worth even talking to.
3) Jihad (my name for it)
a) We never try to make contact and never trade. They are totally beneath us If they contact you, declare war right away (you are actually killing their diplomats). Otherwise, you can declare war by attacking a unit.
b) All foreigners are put to the sword - all towns razed, all foreign workers are disbanded/killed.
c) This variant is better if you don't look at F4 or diplomacy, ever.

Given our start, I bet we could win with 3 which is probably the hardest of the variants and ppl wanted a challenge.
Click to expand...

I am fine with (1) or (2), but if we choose (3) we will render our UU pointless. If we can't keep slaves, I will never build a Javelin instead of a Horse or Sword. Additionally, we wouldn't be able to capture wonders. If I had to choose, I'd say (2) since that is how we have started. (And (2) and (3) are the same except (2) allows us to benefit from capturing cities/slaves.)

I am rather suprised that the Aztecs didn't try to contact us for more than 20 turns. Maybe we're just not that interesting.
 
Originally posted by T_McC

I am rather suprised that the Aztecs didn't try to contact us for more than 20 turns. Maybe we're just not that interesting.
Click to expand...

It's not that we are not interesting. It's that Sherman is known to take slaves.

Also. I'm down with 2. No trades. They're knowledge is probably faulty and not correctly researched. They are no different than barbarians. You can put sugar on a turd but that does not make it a tootsie roll.
 
Good point TMcC,
This is not the game to try 3. I forgot about are UU. We already have the starve to 1 rule, so we will keep that and allow slaves. Note that 1) is considered "normal" AW rules as far as I am aware.

[Edit: I kind of like 2 as well. I think that will be my vote for now]

Need to sleep now so will think some more on it and post if I have any thoughts.
 
Originally posted by handy900
Official GOT IT.

Too late to play tonight. I'll play Friday night, so you all have 24 hours to tell me what to do :)
Click to expand...

Well, since you asked ... :rolleyes: (You know, I think I use more ellipses than anyone else in this entire forum)

I also concur that the capital should build settlers. We need another city to stop paying unit support costs, and during the balance of our GA we should be able to put down three more cities. [The capital can grow two sizes in 4 turns, and I think we can do a warrior/settler combo in 4 as well.]

I think the next city should be built on the lakeside grass tile S of Tecumseh. After that, maybe a city SW of LSU, so we can claim all 21 tiles for LSU.

One could try to get a second Javelin to Bull Run so we can attack both Aztec warriors next turn.

When we do get a spare Jav, it may be profitable to explore our S a little, looking for barb camps. ($$$ + slaves)

I think Iron Working should be the next research, so we can see if we (or the Aztecs) have any. After that tech you can decide whether we should beeline to Lit. I would probably hold off until we can switch the capital from settlers back to military, so we can start the pre-build in LSU. Use your best judgement.

I think by the end of your turns (more likely the end of Slinger's turns), we may be able to go on offense against the Aztecs. If you feel this is a correct assessment based on the units Monty throws at you, then I guess HBR is the tech choice after IW.
 
T_McC,

I agree with the Iron, we need to know where it is asap.

We will definitely need horses for both defense as well as offense. Their ability to kill AI units wounded from cats & then retreat back to a walled city is key. We can attack AI stacks first with javs to try & get slaves, but the last attack should be a horse, if leaving a jav exposed makes him open for a counter attack.

Exploring to the south is also a good idea. I guess I did not realize javs could enslave barbs. That is a nice bonus feature on top of the gold you get from a barb camp. If there are barbs down there, we could delay our settle in that area for a while and use it as a "barb farm" for gold + workers (unless you all think "barb farms" are too much of an exploit).
 
Ok, so lets try varient 2.

No trades with anyone.

Only if they contact directly you do you need to declare war.

If we see units of other civs, it is in the spirit of the game to attack them to declare war.

Since I did it, if you feel like dialing them up to specifically declare war, then this is allowed.

If anyone doesn't like these rules then speak up. I don't want to have rules that the players aren't happy with.

I will change the first post.
 
I only have one change to suggest to Greebley's post.

Rather than just barbarically attacking an enemy unit to initiate war, we must remember we are gentlemen.

(Barb, you are a guy, right?) :p

Upon sighting an enemy unit, you are to respectfully approach him and request to see his commanding officer. At which point you are to remove the glove from your right hand, and "demand satisfaction". You may then feel free to kill at will.

(Yeah, I know you just challenged someone to a duel, but it seems to fit the spirit/timeframe of the variant.)
 
GR2 Pre Turn (1500 BC)

Will go with Greebley’s idea to build a warrior and settler pair every 4 turns.

City build order:
1. Lakeside grass tile S of Tecumseh
2. SW of LSU (on the ocean), so we can claim all 21 tiles for LSU
To do list:
1. Need to assign worker to connect horses when they become available
2. Try to get a second Javelin to Bull Run so we can attack both Aztec warriors next turn
3. Explore S looking for barb camps.
4. Begin researching Iron Working (next player after that HBR or Lit)
5. Do not make any trades (this will tempt me severely if I am offered IW).
6. If I see someone, declare war

Before I hit enter
Move a Javelin to bull run so we’ll have 2 there to attack the Aztecs next turn.

Turn 1 – 1475 BC
Treasury is low
2 regular Aztec warriors arrive at Bull Run.
Two javelins attack & win. No slaves.
Position spear between bull Run & Shiloh so he can reach either city.
Begin road on the incense hill
Building roads

Turn 2 1450 BC
We get math. Set to IW (due in 9). Earning 1 GPT and 4 in the bank.
Tecumseh - settler - warrior
Set queue to build a warrior + settler combo every 4 turns.
LSU – javelin – javelin (4 turns)
Switch Bull Run to catapult production (every 3 turns)
Shiloh & Bull run both have 2 spears and 2 swords. There is an extra spear between them.

Turn 3 1425 BC
Tecumseh – warrior – settler
Bull Run – cat – cat
Move workers towards horses.
Shiloh – walls – cat (due in 2)
Found Sherman

Turn 4 1400 BC
Move workers
American scout comes into view near Shiloh. Abe will trade IW + CB + 40 gold for math, but I don’t do it . I must tell you, it was not easy to turn him down. I read the forum twice to make sure it said no trades. In the sprit of tactless war I’ll hold off the war declaration 1 turn & then try to enslave the scout next turn.

Turn 5 1375 BC
Scout moves out of view to the N, I dial up Abe on F4 & declare war.

Turn 6 – 1350 BC
We have horses.
Tecumseh – settler – warrior
LSU – javelin – chariot
Javelin heads south to explore
Send workers to build a road to connect Sherman with LSU

Turn 7 1325 BC
Tecumseh – warrior – settler
Bull run – cat – cat
Worker shuffle

Turn 8 1300 BC
LSU – chariot – chariot
IW due in 1 turn – turn slider down to pick up 15 gold

Turn 9 1275 BC
We get IW. We can get HBR in 6 or Writing in 9 & make 0 GPT. I set it to HBR in 5 (running deficit of –5 GPT. We have 41 in the bank.
We have Iron SE of Bull Run [dance]
Settler & spear arrive at blue dot SW of LSU
Javelin explores & sees some IRON to the South of LSU Thats 2 Iron sources. Let's hope the aztecs have none!

Turn 10 1250 BC
Tecumseh – settler – warrior
Two Aztec regular warriors appear N of Bull Run.
Send the cat over to Bull Run. Since that is where the IRON is, I expect they will attack there. We have 3 cats in Bull Run.
Found Savannah – there is only a spear in this city, but a javelin is nearby.
Spot goody hut south of the Iron way down south.
Send worker towards Iron near Bull Run
Send settler & warrior to the tile next to the horses (hope that’s okay).

EDIT **** You can get HBR in 3 turns losing 8 GPT (we have 36 in the bank) if you choose to. Probably a good idea. ****

I don’t usually zip files, so I hope I did this correctly. The name is GR2_1250_BC

SAVE 1250 BC

The picture is in the next post so you do not have to scroll back & forth to read the turns.
 
1250 BC

GR2_1250bc.JPG
 
First off to clear up any confusion I'm a 41 yr old male application engineer in the defense industry working to tactical tomahawks, C-17's and other things. Beautiful lady at home, 1 son 15yrs old in Seattle (divorce) and a step son 20 at home going into Marines.

Anyway, I like the prebuild too. Sherman will be up to speed soon and if next cities are 1st ring they will help. LSU needs the GL. I think HBR can come 1st. this is monarch and the AI are researching slow. Our prebuild will get it. Once that comes in we can shut off research and cash rush infra. They are only send warriors? Pfft! Fingers crossed for leader army.

Am I up? If so, I got it and will play tonight after work. I will plant the settler and then get another settler 1st ring. Is the 4-turn settler/spear factory turn key or is there MMing to do? Also looking back at our dot map, I don't see any thing for the hill city 3 tiles from Tecumseh next to the mountain. It looks like it would make a great 1st ring spot though it would be squeezed by the city I'm putting down next. Two halfer's good isn't it. More military!
 
What are we supposed to do with that piece of s**t land. I would hate to have to have to devote 3-5 units down there for MP but we do have to deny. I guess a harbor and wait for a few hundred centuries.
 
@Barbslinger - No offense intended in my previous post. (Hence the sticking-out-your-tongue smiley). It was just an easy joke to make given one possible way to shorten your username.

@Handy - I tried to look at the save, but I couldn't extract a file from your zip. If you are using Windows XP, the easiest way to zip a file is go into File Manager or My Computer, find the file and right-click on it. Then select Send To --> Compressed (zipped) Folder. Or maybe it's just me having the problem.

A few more general comments. We don't need to settle the second iron, since we can't trade it, and will go to war with anyone else who does try to claim it. It may be more useful to not settle it, to give the AI a strong reason to land settler pairs in our back lines, giving us an easy source of cheap labor.

The four-turn warrior/settler cycle just requires setting the capital to +5 food and at least 10 shields/turn. I think Slinger will get to go through that cycle once before the GA ends. (Although it looks like it will be settler then warrior, since he's picking up in the middle of Handy's sequence) The GA will end on Slinger's 4th turn. Since we are running a lux tax to maintain happiness, the end of the GA will likely cause some cities to riot. I find the easiest way to prevent any loss of production is to raise the lux tax 10% the turn before the GA ends (so before you end your turn 3), and then re-examine what would be the proper level of lux tax after the Advisor tells you the GA ended.

With regards to the hill city three tiles from Tecumseh, our tentative dot-maps had it one further E, on the forest. This was the only square that was both coastal, and on a river. It is not within one turn troop movement of the capital. I don't believe this is a real concern, as it could only be attacked by a sea-borne invasion, and we'll have more than enough advance warning to get troops there.

After that city, and the two dots N of Tecumseh (Handy has a settler on 1 spot already), I think you are on your own, as we didn't map any farther out.

On a somewhat related note: What is up with the Aztecs? If I'm reading Handy's turnlog correctly, in 10 turns they could only muster up two regular warriors? I know they have Warrior Code, so why aren't they building Jags? If they are fighting someone else, they must be getting hammered. Has anyone played a game with the Aztecs as an opponent and found something broken? (i.e., they don't know to build their UU).
 
Just an FYI.......
I was able to extract and load the save from Handy's zip file.
 
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