GR2 - Sherman's War (C3C AW).

[Greebley]

Well I started up the Aztecs and they can build both warriors and jaguar warriors. Was that true in PTW? Maybe they now value warriors more than Jags? After all the Jags cost 50% more for +1 move (15 instead of 10).

The zip worked fine for me as well.

We have a lot of units. Maybe would could go on the offensive and grab/raze the two towns we can see? A lux would be very nice. We could alway fall back if necessary. The AI boat attacks are not good enough to cause any real problems from sea if all cities have defense.

I think they were probably at war with the americans and will be easy. We could also wait for swords. It would be cool to drive the AI back and get some real lands.

 

[barbslinger]

I'm talking about here. River, hill, 1st ring. Sharing yes, but military producer with no corruption.

 

[Greebley]

One thing to consider. If we minimize the number of cities at civ distance 4 or less, we get more shields in our wonder building city.

We could hold off on the close cities not yet built if we wanted to and fill them in if/when we get the great library. Not sure if this is a good idea, but I thought I would bring it up.

Other than this consideration, your site looks pretty decent to me Barbslinger.

Well I am off to bed and leave the empire in your capable hands

 

[T_McC]

All right, one 3rd party program later and I can open the save.

I first note that no shields have been put into the settler in Tecumseh, so the warrior-settler cycle can start fresh. I also note that we have a lot of units and could probably think about an offensive operation against Texcoco, hoping it would grow to size 2 before we attack it. The Aztecs have 5 cities to our 6.

My biggest concern about the purple dot is how food-poor it will be. It could only grow by stealing two-food tiles from the neighboring cities. If it can't grow much, it won't be able to produce many troops.

The advantage I see to purple dot is that it allows us to move the eastern yellow square 1 NE and make better use of the peninsula. (We would not build the eastern blue dot.)

The disadvantages are: potentially higher corruption in the wonder city, purple dot could end up having to be really tiny, ...

I don't know. I can't see a compelling argument either way, so use your best judgement. I will say it might be best to save purple dot for the third city you found on your turns, after the two northern blue dots, as I think those may have better short-term prospects.

Other notes:
We have a strong military compared to the Aztecs and the Americans.

Apparently no one has built a temple yet, as Tecumseh is the #1 city on F11. We also have the largest population.

 

[barbslinger]

1250 BC inherited turn of Shermans war

Decided to slide the science to get HBR in 3 since a) We have horses, b) We will be self researching most of the game, and c) Who needs money in despotism.
Monte has CB, Writing and HBR.

Everything looks good. Hit enter.

IBT – Aztec oafs move into striking distance.
Bull Run – Cat > Cat

1225BC – turn 1
Changed Savannah over to barracks in 19.
Found Chattanooga where the settler was standing. Set to barracks in 20.
Sending almost saw Aztecs to hut in case we pop barbs and after for sentry duty.
Bull Run skirmish – Cats go 2/3. Javs kill both losing 1 hp on 1st and 2 slaves pop! Sherman likey! “Build a road on that there hill with the iron”, he commands.
Did some MM’ing to get Chat a mine and got gpt to –4 without messing up Tecumseh.
Switched LSU over to Jav. I just don’t like the limited movement of chariots. Horsemen are much better. Moved jav closer to goodie hut but waiting until HBR comes in before stepping on it. Hopefully get a tech! Sci-sli goes to 80%, still in 2.

IBT – Nothing.

1200BC – turn 2
Shuffle a cat to Shiloh. Workers finish a few items. Check M’ing. Looks like Shermans barracks due in 5 will come in next turn with chop completing. HBR is now in 1 at 70%, +9gpt.

IBT – Nada

HBR comes in. I set for CB for hut popping coming up.
LSU – Jav > Jav It was due in 2 but new pop must have been counted in.
Sherman – Barracks > Cat in 4 like Bull Run so I switch Bull Run to Horse
Tecumseh – Settler > Spear possibly changing after I look.

1175BC – turn 3
Worker action. Settler to N tip of our little corner of the world with no escort for now until MP is needed. Pop hut and get… 50g. Switch to Lit beeline and LSU to Palace in 28. LSU get 11 clean shields. If I can get LSU to 13 it is 31 turns to GL. Writing in 5 @ -7gpt. MM cat in 1 in Bull Run.

IBT - American scout runs in and out of fog.
Bull run – Cat > Cat



1150BC – turn 4
Send workers completing projects to incense hills to up the shields. Settler finds his spot. Looking at notes again of posts I see GA should end. Lux to 20%. But then I look at the people and I don’t think there will be any riots. Back to 10% and sci-sli to 90%. Writing in 4 @ -8gpt

IBT – GA is OVER.
Shiloh – Barracks > Jav

1125BC – turn 5
Founded Resaca and set to warrior. Palace now due in 36. Other builds changed. Changed Tecumseh to Sword in 2 and growth in 1. Sci @90 for writing in 5 @ -6gpt. Bull Run set to sword.

IBT – Scout comes in to view by Shiloh.

1100BC – turn 6
Little MM’ing to not waste shield overage on Bull Run sword due at the turn. Warrior set up for sentry duty. He will almost surely die if someone lands a spear and we should get someone more capable done there sometime, not yet. Once some one knocks him off we can raze the town.

IBT – Scout moves to look across the water at us.
Tecumseh – Sword > Settler
Chattanooga – Spear > For giggles the colossus placeholder for harbor or at worst a sword.

1075BC – turn 7
Working the city tiles to get settler in Tecumseh in 3 with growth at 3. Sharing the 2 shield tile in Sherman and Chat will do it. 11-11-8

IBT – Nothing. Scout looks at ocean. Mine on iron completes

1050BC – turn 8
Give LSU the iron mine with 3s. Palace in 24. Writing in 2. Workers doing what they do best.

IBT – Reg Aztec archer pops from Texcoco to look across the bay at us.
Sherman – Cat > Cat

1025BC – turn 9
Moved the jav that popped hut and was coming home to forest next to Shiloh to intercept archer. Added another from Shiloh, just in case. Dialed sci-sli to 30% +13gpt. Writing next turn. Dialed Tecumseh to get the settler in 1, growth in 1 at pop 7.

IBT – Archer moves into position. I wanted to wait until he got to edge of city because of wall bonus, but I have 2 workers and 2 slaves on the BG. Have to attack archer from forest. I like my odds though.

“I can do some Writin’” > “Next I’ll do book learnin’ “
Tecumseh – Settler > Sword. Need to fix MM.
Bull Run – Sword > Sword. Need to fix MM.

1000 – turn 10

Jav kills archer losing 1 hp and the other jav joins him. Moved a sword over to join Shiloh and possibly go to Texcoco for a town razing party.
Literature in 12 @ -7gpt with 61 in bank. I know it looks like we’ll run out of money but we can slide it back later at next leaders discretion. Settler at your discretion too.

Summary-
Well 2 warriors and an archer killed on my watch collecting 2 slaves. Not much war for AW. I’m sure next time around it will pick up.
Try to keep the double shield tiles for LSU. Switch if MM’ing demands it but the sooner we get it the better.
I thought about building a ship to go hunting but then figured, naw, 2 civs to fight is good enough.
F4 at end shows no new contacts. Aztecs up CB and map making. Wow, Abe is down writing, math and HBR, up CB. Surprise from me. At the rate they are going , after we get GL, we may have to research anyhow. Once we get a leader for an Army I assume we’ll meet them all while pillaging. Hey good to meet ya’! Excuse me? What language is that your talkin’? Well, let me slap your face, burn your crops and destroy your production. Bye now!

1000BC Save

 

[barbslinger]

 

[handy900]

Originally posted by Greebley
I think we should start the library prebuild and go for writing. Then if we have sufficient time, go for HBR othersise go for lit (we can compare lit time to build palace build times.

Since we are tactless, we want the great lib I think.

Better safe than sorry. If you want to pre-build no objections here.

What do you all think about building a boat to start scouting before the boat traffic gets too heavy. More contacts helps us when we get the GL.

Barbslinger - I don't like charriots either, just figured we needed a couple to hit & run wounded enemies with, and they upgrade to horsemen.

 

[handy900]

Originally posted by T_McC
…
@Handy - I tried to look at the save, but I couldn't extract a file from your zip. If you are using Windows XP, the easiest way to zip a file is go into File Manager or My Computer, find the file and right-click on it. Then select Send To --> Compressed (zipped) Folder. Or maybe it's just me having the problem.

I’m using Windows XP home, and the way you described it above is how I zipped it. I went back to the forum, downloaded the file, unzipped & opened it since I was a little unsure of myself. Don’t know why it did not work for you.

A few more general comments. We don't need to settle the second iron, since we can't trade it, and will go to war with anyone else who does try to claim it. It may be more useful to not settle it, to give the AI a strong reason to land settler pairs in our back lines, giving us an easy source of cheap labor.

Good idea. Just don’t let anyone settle on the hill as they get a defensive bonus.

The four-turn warrior/settler cycle just requires setting the capital to +5 food and at least 10 shields/turn. I think Slinger will get to go through that cycle once before the GA ends. (Although it looks like it will be settler then warrior, since he's picking up in the middle of Handy's sequence)

There should be 3 warriors ( 1 extra) in the capital so when the settler ends there is already a warrior to escort him.

With regards to the hill city three tiles from Tecumseh, our tentative dot-maps had it one further E, on the forest. This was the only square that was both coastal, and on a river. It is not within one turn troop movement of the capital. I don't believe this is a real concern, as it could only be attacked by a sea-borne invasion, and we'll have more than enough advance warning to get troops there.

Are you talking about the city named "Sherman"? I thought I was supposed to build on the “yellow square” in T_McC's Dec. 01, 10:26 PM post the map where you compared your sites to Greebley’s sites. Is there another map after that one?

On a somewhat related note: What is up with the Aztecs? If I'm reading Handy's turn log correctly, in 10 turns they could only muster up two regular warriors? I know they have Warrior Code, so why aren't they building Jags? If they are fighting someone else, they must be getting hammered. Has anyone played a game with the Aztecs as an opponent and found something broken? (i.e., they don't know to build their UU).

You read it right, only 1 warrior pair was killed. At the end of my turns a second pair showed up. The next player can kill them. They Aztec's have lost a lot of units (maybe some cities) in their earlier war. Perhaps they are vulnerable enough for us to make a play for their silks.

About aztecs not building UU's in C3C, I have not played any C3C with the Aztecs, but I have noticed in another non AW C3C solo game I cannot trade territory maps, even after astronomy has come in. I think I read somewhere in C3C you cannot trade world maps until you get navigation. I must say, the agricultural trait + the pyramids are a powerful combination.

 

[T_McC]

Originally posted by handy900

I’m using Windows XP home, and the way you described it above is how I zipped it. I went back to the forum, downloaded the file, unzipped & opened it since I was a little unsure of myself. Don’t know why it did not work for you.

I ended up using a 3rd party unzip utility and could extract the save. Just weird.

Originally posted by handy900

Are you talking about the city named "Sherman"? I thought I was supposed to build on the “yellow square” in T_McC's Dec. 01, 10:26 PM post the map where you compared your sites to Greebley’s sites. Is there another map after that one?

The city site referred to is shown as the purple dot in the map posted by Slinger (near the top of this page). You did correctly settle on one of our agreed-upon spots.

 

[Greebley]

TMcC, You are up now. Play when you can.

I am hoping we can settle forward as well as back, though we will have to see on that. My advice though is to still build some settlers for this possibility.

 

[T_McC]

I think I'm up, so "Got it". Should be able to play tonight.

I noticed from the save that our Palace is 300 shields, and the G. Lib is 400, so we'll have a little build time after discovering Lit. Wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if we got a Sci. GL for discovering Lit 1st? From the demographics I can tell no one else has it yet.

If we can swing it before the G. Lib completes, it might be a good idea to go as hard as we can at Philosophy, to try to get the free tech. I think that would allow us to grab Currency, and would give us something useful to build besides units. Also, building the MoM in LSU could be real useful, allowing us to run it 3 sizes larger than the lux tax would otherwise allow.

Also good news, we don't know anyone who has started the Statue of Zeus.

 

[T_McC]

GR2 - Sherman's War

1000BC (0)
The Aztecs are fairly lame, I don't see any of their units. There is a settler active, I'm not sure where to send him. I think I'll defer to corruption concerns and build a city that would be farther from the capital than LSU. So Slinger's purple dot will have to wait for later. I move a Javelin out of Shiloh, just to see if I can catch the American scout going someplace stupid and enslave him. Swap a couple of builds, Resaca (which apparently is a Civil War battle site. Who knew? ) swapped to worker to connect it to the rest of the empire. Tecumseh swapped to Horse, tiles swapped around to get +5 food in Tecumseh. Swap Chatanooga to a Curragh.

I'd really like Texcoco to grow to size 2, so it wouldn't autoraze when captured. I do think I'll get to go on offense by the end of my turn.

Move sliders to 4.5.1, Lit in 16, +2 gpt. Needs to be re-evaluated on next turn after LSU grows. Would be nice to have 60 gold to upgrade the two chariots.

IT - Scout runs opposite way. Bummer

975 BC (1)
Raise lux to 20% for LSU. Lit in 12, +1 gpt.

IT - Single regular Aztec horse appears next to Bull Run.

950 BC (2)
Two 'pult shots on horse, Javelin wins and spawns a slave. Move two native workers to chop forest S of Shiloh.

IT - Ottomans complete Oracle

925 BC (3)
Found Manassas S, S, SE of LSU. LSU now has access to its full 21. Chatanooga: Curragh --> Granary. Dinky boat heads CCW from Chatanooga. Send workers and slave to chop wood near Sherman. (You know, after seeing this city, I really had a hard time resisting the temptation to name the next city Peabody. ) Lit now in 10, +4 gpt.

IT - Nothin'

900 BC (4)
Tecumseh: Horse --> Settler (tentative). Sherman: Spear --> Horse. Spear sent to Manassas.

IT - Nothin'

875 BC (5)
Shiloh: Chop assisted Javelin --> Spear. Resaca: Worker --> Granary. I'm tired of waiting, 3 Javs and 2 Swords approach Texcoco.

850 BC (6)
Stack moves adjacent to Texcoco. Spear guards workers building roads around Shiloh. I'll stick with the Settler in Tecumseh.

IT - We Have An American Sighting! Abe sent two regular warriors.

825 BC (7)
Assault on Texcoco. Lose a Javelin to a reg Spear with Archer support. Sword defeats reg. Spear. Vet Sword loses to 2 hp Spear. Javelin def. 2 hp Spear. Javelin defeats Archer, promotes to elite, and Texcoco burns. We also capture a worker. Fairly mediocre results.

Dinky boat sights another reg. American warrior. Catapult moved to Bull Run, so we have 4 cat shots at the American units next turn.

Tecumseh: Settler --> Spear.

800 BC (8)
Cats go 2 for 4 on American warriors. Javelin attacks first warrior and generates a slave. Horse retreats from 2 hp warrior. Dinky boat shows that Abe is at least into the spirit of the game, as it sees 3 more regular warriors heading down the coast. Sherman: Horse --> Spear. Bull Run: Sword --> Sword.

IT - Aztecs build the Pyramids for us.

775 BC (9)
Tecumseh: Spear --> Spear. Abe seems to have wised up. His warrior fortified outside of our borders rather than approach Bull Run.

IT - Americans begin building Temple of Artemis. That would be nice to have.

750 BC (10)
Americans plop warrior next to Bull Run. Cats score two hits, Horse finishes job. Aztecs advance archer towards Shiloh (or worker stack).

Total military score: We killed 6 units, lost 2, and captured 3 slaves. Not real inspiring results, but these clowns will not try to attack us.

To next Leader (Greebley) - There is a stack assembling in Shiloh consisting of a settler, 2 workers, and at least 4 defensive units to make the push into Azteca. My thinking for a dot map will follow.

I was trying to build Horses in Tecumseh and Sherman, and Swords/Javelins on the front lines. The spasm of Spears at the end was to prepare the defensive stack for the aggressive settlement. Feel free to veto the granaries (not much else for the coastal cities to build, as they are sort of shield-poor) or change the mix of troop builds.

Sherman set the Wayback Machine for 750 BC

 

[barbslinger]

You had me laughing a couple times, thanks. The war goes slow. the pyramids are finished so expect units being generated from that city for a while. It is hard to get a leader wher yo only get to attack 8-10 times every 20 turns! My beer is up to more war and slaves. Hip-hip-hooray!

 

[T_McC]

My take on the Azteca settlements:

Blue dot would be the first city founded, and then we could capture Teotihuacan to complete the front line. The two red dots could be founded behind the front lines. Calix... has to burn as it is founded on a cow.

 

[Greebley]

I got it. I will try playing this now.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Looked at our empire. It has grown! I MM Tecumseh in an attempt to get the spear next turn (I may miss by a shield due to corruption, in which case I will probably switch to a horseman). Upgrade 2 chariots.

IBT: 3 american warriors appear.
Tecumseh:spear->settler

730 BC (1):
Speed up our prebuild of th GLib by merging in the 2 workers. Lux to 30% (Lit in 3).

Bombard an Aztec archer, then attack with a horse and kill it. Horse is now Elite.

Send some units toward the new settle site.

IBT:
American warriors enter our lands.
One aztec Jaguar enters our lands.

710 BC (2):
Bombard and attack the American warriors for no losses.
Bombard and attack the Jaguar warrior with our Jav thrower who gets a worker and is now elite.

Advance the units. I am thinking of a slightly more forward spot than yours, TMcC and grab the river.
Switch Sherman to a settler
Switch Resaca to walls (granary looks like not the best choice too may sea squares and needs aquaduct - it might be a point of attack during the boat years).
Orange border spotted.

IBT: A purple warrior spotted and the Iroquois are building the temple of Artimis.
Shiloh: Swordsman->Swordsman

690 AD (3)
I decide to not send the ship farther north. It appears there are more ppl on our continent. The window to attack the Aztecs is going to close very fast.

Declare war on the Iroquois (our exploring dinky does its dinky little attack on the Iroqouis that does no damage, but they get the idea.

IBT: All quiet on the northern front.
Tecumseh: Settler->Swordsman

670 BC (4):
Research Lit - Start Currency at min science.
Switch LSU to GLib due in 10 (it is up to 21 shields - 5 for corruption).
Settle the town of Lancaster (Walls)
Move some troops near Aztecs.

IBT: Forbidden palace message
Bull run: Swordsman->Spearman
Sherman: Settler->Worker

650 BC (5):
Attack on tecotihuacan (can't read it all - guessing at first letters):
Bombarding damages a spear.
Horse vs reg spear wins
Jav thrower vs (2 hp) spear wins.
Elite horse vs archer wins and the city is destroyed.

Savannah switched to a settler.

IBT: Aztecs settle a town to the N.

630 BC (6): Our elite horse accidentally steps into Aztec territory. Spots a settler/spear pair.

IBT: A horseman attacks our elite horse and wins. My finger fumbling costs us.
Tecumseh:Sword->Settler

610 BC (7): Attack and kill injured horse that attacked us with a horse and then retreat.
Send 2 units toward Calixtlahuaca (sword + horse)

IBT: Aztec Spear/Settler advances
An american spear approaches.

590 BC (8):
Bombard spear and miss.
Attack spear with vet horse and lose - spear promotes
Attack injured spear with vet horse and win - settler becomes 2 workers.
Build the city of Augusta (walls)
Bombard American spear to 1 hp. Elite Jav thrower attacks and wins. A spear covers it.

IBT:
Savannah: Settler->Walls

570 BC (9):
Two units outside CalixtLahuaca.
Risk sending spear to pillage Axtec horses.

IBT: Spear risk fails as a reg archer kills the spear without injury.

Tecumseh:Settler->Sword
Bull Run: Spear->Settler
Sherman: Worker->Javalin Thrower
Chatanooga: Granary->Settler

550 BC (10):
Attack Calixlahuaca with the horse which retreats. Move horse out of enemy territory. Attempt to have the sword cover, but fumble finger it.

Notes:
In the nothern most darkness above the USS Dinky you can (barely) see an orange outline.

There are 2 settlers for towns I hoped to build in their correct spots. One is near the Silks. There are already workers connecting up the silks and the road to our home. The other one is on the hill E of Savannah. You can move them if you want.

The troops near the new silk town are in a bit of disarray. When the town gets built we will also want to fix this. The catapult that is taking point was trying to bombard the road across the way to slow aztec troops. No luck yet.

The great library is now only 4 turns away. I cut the time by several turns at the cost of a higher Lux rate.

Enemy attacks have been incredibly lame. Are they still at war? Because of this I was aggressive on our front line.

I think we will need one or two more units to take out Calixtlahuaca. My suggestion is to just have the horse and sword guard and contain any units from down there while new ones move up.

Handy you are up

 

[Greebley]

The Save

 

[handy900]

Got it.

Very nice progress. Iron, horses, 2 luxuries and weak foes. I've never been a part of an AW start quite this fast.

 

[Greebley]

Do we have 2 lux? We almost have the silks. Did we get another one and I missed it?

I would continue to probe forward. As long as they are weak, lets push them back. Just establish defense points as we go that we can fall back to if things do get rough.

I would also consider building a boat to send around the island to go up the western coast. It would be nice to know if there are other choke points or if the continent widens making it hard to defend.

 

[handy900]

Greebley - I was counting the incense near the capital + silks to get to 2 luxuries.

I missed your post about the boat until I was done. Good idea, I should have done it.

My turns are below. I was going to get aggessive, but we went to war with 2 more civs (total of 5 AI's now at war now) so I backed down a little & settled a nice grassland spot behind our front line.