GR8 - Phoenix Rising

I usually like building courthouses before I revold rather than after. That means getting RP so one can have engineers.

The one thing you didn't take into account is Science. We will make one less cavalry, but our research rate will probably be better than double with science cities in republic. If we are first to tanks, that is a powerful advantage that may be worth less shields.

Of course the Anarchy would slow our science even more.
 
Greebley said:
I usually like building courthouses before I revold rather than after. That means getting RP so one can have engineers.

The one thing you didn't take into account is Science. We will make one less cavalry, but our research rate will probably be better than double with science cities in republic. If we are first to tanks, that is a powerful advantage that may be worth less shields.

Of course the Anarchy would slow our science even more.

For now, republic is definitely better than communism in science, and the difference will be more than 163 gpt because of libs and univs. But we are in a stage of not needing to do research. We are just waiting for others to get refining, steel, or even combustion for us. Actually, we don't need any more tech, cav armies, infantries, artilleries, and galleons (and allys) are enough to take down the other continent.

I have tried all means (police officer and civil engineer) to speed courthouse everywhere, except newly conquered cities which build workers to reduce flip probability.

The headache thing is anarchy, true. I guess no one would love to devote 9 turns in his/her 10 turns to anarchy! :lol:
 
lurker's comment:
The headache thing is anarchy, true. I guess no one would love to devote 9 turns in his/her 10 turns to anarchy!

Paging T_McC!! Paging Dr. T_McC!! Your precense is requested in GR8. A Revolution is on order and an Anarchy player is needed!!

Now what are the chances he will play in Civ4 games with me. :crazyeye:
 
Heroes said:
Actually, we don't need any more tech, cav armies, infantries, artilleries, and galleons (and allys) are enough to take down the other continent.

This may be true, but taking out civs defended by infantry is much slower using cav armies and artillery.

The trade off is more cavalry and artillery vs tanks and tank armies. I personally find that the number of Cav is not the limiting factor. It is the number of artillery to lower the whole town to size 1. Also we are forced to move at the speed of the artillery.

Tank armies can take out cities with no help and even tanks attacking infantry is not so bad in cities size 12 or less, so they can move at speed 3 to take out cities.

Personally, I think the tanks more than make up for the shields. A tank (mabye 2) can take out the infantry, or we can build 4 artillery and a Cavalry.

Alternatively you can bombard the city and then use the tank vs 2 and 3 hp infantry which also uses less artillery.

In any case I think we want to trade for the next tech and then up research to the max and beat the AI to tanks. The game will be much easier and we will win earlier despite having less shields to spend.

Also Anarchy means we start 32 cavalry behind by your calculations if we get 8 turns (likely) it will take 32 more turns to catch up. In much less than 40 turns we can have tanks so we will get tanks and still be "ahead" in terms of shields.

Don't get me wrong, communism can be good. The difficulty to my mind is that it comes too late for many games. By the time you are better off in Communism, you are mopping up the last civs.
 
Greebley, I agree with your point that tank is better in taking out cities. One minor point is that tank's movement is 2.

One of the questions is: from where should we restart full speed research? Steel? Combustion? Mass production? Or just motorized transportation? This issue is funny because we are holding 2 high value techs to sell, and we still have some EW to upgrade (I don't think we have already enough rifles, and rifles will upgrade to infantries afterwards). Persia has already know atomic theory, but I hope that it's so expensive that Persia won't trade it for refining. Well, probably Persia will betray us and sign peace with Hittites, and they both get refining and AT, who knows. Let's see what will happen.

In any case, shall we sell electronics? It could help AI a lot in building civil defense. Do we really care about that? However, it's possible that we only need to eliminate one of the 3 civs in the other continent to reach domination victory, so we can sell electronics to the others (and buy in them at the same time) with no loss.

My concern about republic is that we have almost reach the highest production it can afford, which is still not great. I estimate we can produce about 5 tanks per turn at most under republic. OTOH, when the newly conquered cities return productive, communism can offer much greater production, maybe 10 tanks per turn or more. Furthermore, when the new cities become productive, soon communism will provide the same or even more beakers than republic. Considering this, I still think that it's good to revolt when we have no need to research.

But anyway, let's see what Pike will do. :)
 
As soon as both Refining and Steal are known, I would then start researching the next tech (combustion I think) at full research (which means MM'ing for science in corrupt towns and max science getting as much GPT as we can get. If we can do that without trading electronics, then that is great. We then go straight for Tanks at full. I think we would get there first.
 
Greebley said:
As soon as both Refining and Steal are known, I would then start researching the next tech (combustion I think) at full research (which means MM'ing for science in corrupt towns and max science getting as much GPT as we can get. If we can do that without trading electronics, then that is great. We then go straight for Tanks at full. I think we would get there first.

We can absolutely know motorized transportation first no matter what, we are leading a large margin for now, not to mention that AIs are beating each other. Maybe Pike's turnlog are coming ... :)
 
1350 (0): The attack of a Hittite cav costs us a rifleman in Alalah (0-1).

Hittite cav units zoom through our new holdings in the south, but don't quite reach any of the empty cities--nice calculation, Heroes. :lol:

We renew the deal that brings us ivory from Persia, though we have to give Xerxes two lux and 30 gpt.


1355 (1): Outside cities we cut down seven Hittite cav, a guerrilla, and a rifleman (9-1).

We take Alaca Huyuk from its garrison of four riflemen (13-1). We gain 108 gold and raze the town for seven workers.

We take Kummanni, held by two riflemen (15-1), and net 54 gold.

We found New Erech near the ruins of Alaca Huyuk.

The Hittites and the Celts make peace.

We lose one rifleman defending Kummanni (15-2).


1360 (2): We take Hadrumetum, held by two riflemen, gaining 52 gold and three workers (17-2).

We take Oea, garrisoned by a guerrilla and two riflemen (79 gold; 20-2).

We take Kadesh from its garrison of three riflemen and a cav, losing one cav (24-3). We collect 82 gold and raze the town for five workers.

Outside cities we trample six Hittite cav (30-3). In the process we generate Lugalzuggezi, who founds another army. We'll hand-build the Small Wonders easily enough.

We found New Isin near the ruins of Kadesh.

We take Alisar Huyuk, held by three riflemen (33-3; 82 gold), only letting the town survive because I mis-click. :D

We trade Electronics to the Ottomans for Steel, 160 gpt, 737 gold, and their WM.

We send incense, dyes, and 63 gpt to Persia for rubber.

The Hittites lose one cav attacking New Isin (34-3).

Ur HOOVER --> Military Academy.


1365 (3): We abandon Kummanni and found the tactical town of New Akshak.

We take Hattusha from its garrison of three riflemen, a guerrilla, and a cav, capturing two artillery, two workers, and 105 gold (39-3).

We take Emar, held by four riflemen, and capture three arty and 105 gold (43-3).

Outside cities we destroy four Hittite cav and a rifleman, losing a cav (48-4).

We take Cadiz, held by three riflemen, and seize 78 gold (51-4).

We lose a rifleman when the Hittites attack Alisar Huyuk (51-5).


1370 (4): We reach the second level of war weariness.

We found the tactical town of New Zabalam.

We take Adana, defeating the garrison of three riflemen and a cav and sinking at least three ships when we enter the town (58-5). We steal 79 gold and generate the Great Leader Emana, who forms another army.

We abandon Hattusha and found the tactical towns of New Kisurra and New Der.

We take Tyrana, held by two riflemen and one guerrilla, and sink at least one ship on the way in (62-5). We seize 78 gold.

We take Ugarit, held by three riflemen, and gain 78 gold (65-5).

We abandon Tyrana and found the tactical town of New Kua.

We take Kanesh, held by three riflemen, and gain 78 gold (68-5).

Outside cities we overrun two Hittite cav (70-5).

The RNG treats us dreadfully as the Hittites make the usual cav attacks, and we lose two infantry and one guerrilla while killing only one attacker (71-8).


1375 (5): We take Tarsus from its garrison of four riflemen, capturing two arty and 106 gold (75-8).

We take Hubishna, held by three riflemen, and seize 79 gold (78-8).

We storm the Hittite capital of Hattusas, destroying the garrison of six riflemen and capturing Knights Templar, two arty, and 112 gold (84-8).

We found New Marad near Aleppo.

We take Aleppo, held by four riflemen, and capture one arty and 107 gold (90-8).

Outside cities we ride down five Hittite cav (95-8).

Two Hittite cav attack our cities and retreat.


1380 (6): We found New Kuara near Ankuwa.

We take Ankuwa, capturing three workers, an arty, and 75 gold, but lose two cav to defeat the garrison of two riflemen and a guerrilla (98-10).

We take New Hattusas, garrisoned by three riflemen, and seize 75 gold (101-10).

We take Karatepe, held by two riflemen, and capture two arty and 52 gold (103-10).

We take Samuha, held by two riflemen, and gain 52 gold (105-10).

We abandon Samuha and found the tactical town of New Kutha.

We take Katna, one guerrilla, one rifleman, three arty, 55 gold (107-10).

We auto-raze New Tarsus, two guerrillas, one rifleman, 57 gold (110-10). The Hittites are now down to an enclave of two cities in their homeland, though they still have twelve recently conquered towns on the eastern peninsula.

Outside cities we trample one Hittite cav (111-10).

We get started against the Hittites' peninsular cities by taking Odense, two riflemen, one guerrilla, two arty, 59 gold (114-10).

Ironclads is in general circulation. Great choice, gentlemen. [pimp]

Tarsus flips to the Hittites, and we lose an Enk. Well, we can't complain about flips so far in this war.


1385 (7): Tarsus is held by four riflemen after its flip--WTH? We take it back and collect 108 gold (118-10).

We found the tactical town of New Nagsu near the present Hittite capital of Harran.

We storm Harran, held by six riflemen and a guerrilla, and capture a worker and 108 gold (125-10).

We take Trondheim from its garrison of five riflemen and a cav, capturing Sun Tzu, the Colossus, and 81 gold, but losing a cav (131-11).

We take Copenhagen, held by three riflemen and two cav, and capture two artillery and 83 gold (136-11).

We take Reykjavik, three riflemen, one guerrilla, 84 gold (140-11).

Erech INTELLIGENCE AGENCY --> cav.

We get a palace expansion.


1390 (8): We switch the focus of our attack to the bottom of the eastern peninsula, building our railroad as we go in Civ II style, which is possible because two Hittite cities in the middle of the peninsula have been razed by our allies. Eight Sipahis and six Persian cav are next to Hippo, so there must be some resource there.

We found New Susa near Utica.

We take Utica from its garrison of seven riflemen and a guerrilla, losing a cav (148-12). We capture Magellan, a worker, an arty, and 90 gold.

We take Leptis Minor, held by two riflemen, a guerrilla, and a cav (152-12). We capture two arty and 93 gold.

We take Carthage, held by four riflemen and a guerrilla (157-12). We gain control of Copernicus, the Great Lighthouse, a worker, and 97 gold.

We take Leptis Magna from its garrison of two riflemen and gain 106 gold (159-12).

We take Hippo, defeating the garrison of two riflemen and a guerrilla and losing a cav (162-13). We gain a worker and 73 gold.

We take Karasjok farther up the peninsula, defeating the garrison of two riflemen and a cav and gaining three workers and 85 gold (165-13).

Outside cities we have poor luck, losing a cav and an inf and defeating only a rifleman (166-15).

We try to plant spies with all our rivals except the Celts, and fail in all four attempts. :mad:

The Hittites, down to two cities, wouldn't give us Refining for survival even if we wanted to play it that way--they're insulted. :rotfl:

We get a palace expansion.


1395 (9): We take Ivriz from its garrison of three riflemen, destroying at least one ship when we enter the town (170-15). The Hittites are almost out of gold and there's nothing to loot.

The Hittites' last city is Stavanger, a hill town the Aztecs have softened up for us. We bombard three riflemen, attack with a cav army, and eliminate the "Glorious Hittites", without ever going beyond the second level of war weariness (173-15). We gain a worker and the Hittites' last gold piece.

We disperse a barb camp in the former Hittite homeland, killing two warriors and gaining 25 gold (175-15).

Thirty-two elite victories this round produced two Great Leaders.
 
With minor exceptions, I've only moved the units necessary to finish the Hittite war this turn--partly so that the next player can position our units for the Aztec war as he sees fit, and partly from fatigue. ;) Most of our units still have their movement. With the end of our anti-Hittite alliance the Aztecs have become furious with us again, so we need to be careful until we attack them. We may want to move a lot of units into towns on the Aztec border this turn.

Knowledge of Refining having perished with the Hittites, no civ has any required tech we lack. We're researching at 100% and we're still over 300 gpt.

In the next round we'll complete five more factories in reasonably uncorrupt cities, and of course they'll all have Hoover from the start. This should give us a more than adequate productive base for victory, and I don't think we need to revolt to communism. Everyone on the team knows how to fight wars in a republic.

There's a fair amount of unclaimed land in the middle of the eastern peninsula which we can settle if we want. We have four settlers next to Ur.

We should be careful to keep our rail line on the peninsula occupied by unimportant units as long as it runs through neutral territory, or it'll be blocked by other civs' units.

There's still a good deal of work to do in this game, but not much doubt about the outcome, as long as don't have to absorb an Aztec attack.
 
The Phoenix stirs:

GR8-1395AD.JPG
 
Wow, eliminate "the glorious Hittites" in exactly 10 turns! :goodjob: I thought we can conquer on average 3 cities per turn, but you did it much faster! :D

BTW: It's of no use to try multiple times to plant spy in a civ in one turn. If you fail the first time, you can never succeed in this turn. Good that you only tried 4 times! :lol:

I doubt whether I will have another chance of "got it" ... :)
 
Heroes said:
BTW: It's of no use to try multiple times to plant spy in a civ in one turn. If you fail the first time, you can never succeed in this turn. Good that you only tried 4 times! :lol:

I may not have phrased that clearly. I tried once each against the Hittites, Aztecs, Ottomans, and Persians. :cool:
 
Heroes, I think NP tried 4 different civs, which can work.

Excellent work NP :D This has been a faster comeback than I envisioned. We got some real luck with the AI wars that really helped us, but also were ready to take advantage of that fact to gain upmost advantage from them.

Looks like Obormot gets to :hammer: the Aztecs. We may want to start building boats in some coastal towns for invading the other continent.

Roster:
Greebley - On deck
ThERat
Heroes
Northern Pike - Just Played
Obormot - Up
 
We have wines deal going with Aztecs, sorry ...
To keep our innocent rep, looks we have to play the dirty trick of boot or immediate steal.
 
Greebley said:
Actually at this point of the game, I don't really mind if we ruin our rep. We don't want to buy techs for gpt anyway.

That's sure, I merely want a chaste victory ... :D BTW, it's still possible buying allies for gpt could be helpful.
 
I'm sorry for delaying everybody yet again, but i need a swap. Things are rather busy for me now, i thought that i might be able to play today, but it didn't work out.
 
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