GR8 - Phoenix Rising

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
since WW is high due to the war with Ottoman, decide to go for peace
it is doubtful, so we throw in RoP (I wanted that anyway to fight Persia), and we get 100g as well for that
set lux to 0% and science to 70% to get mass production in 2
workers can now RR on the other continent
load a ton of units into our transports, why are they all waiting on our own continent?
MM a ton to get growth, more scientists etc. at the end am able to reduce science to 60%

IT people love us all over the country and we get some pollution
Persians advance a little towards our beachhead

1.1505AD
found another town on our soil
found a town overseas, defeat some Persians, then attack Persian town and due to MPP,
Ottomans declare war on us again.
raze Persian Rhodes for 3 slaves, take out a few other units near our cities, wait for the big reinfroments to arrive

lux up to 20%, science to 50%

IT that's bad, Persia and Celts sign peace
we defeat 2 Persian Cavs, get mass production, tanks in 6

2. 1510AD
found another town overseas to get us closer to spices, we need more luxes to fight WW
a huge contingent of units arrive overseas, now we can fight properly, arty shreds some infantry nearby and use Cavs to defeat them
land an army next to Malatya, an Ottoman enclave near our borders

IT nothing much happening

3. 1515AD
bombard Thermopylae, use 2 armies to raze it for 72g, found Spicetown, we have them and Persia has none of them
fail tp plant a spy with Ottoman byt manage to defeat 4 units and raze Malatya
take out another 10 Persian infantry, I wonder how long they will be able to sustain this rate
manage to plant a spy with Persia, check their military, they have 71 infantry and a mere 5 Cav's
nothing to worry

IT Ottomans attack with 7 sipahi, then Persia with 2cav's, we lose 2 infantry in the process
Ur grows to pop13 (I built a hospital there) and now make 72spt, that's a 6 turn army

4. 1520AD
rinsing the retreated units and some stray infantry, get another leader, well we have 3 empty armies
so, this one can form a cav army in the meantime
bombard Marathon with 4 arty, 2 amries do the rest and we raze the town
Shiraz is now within range, bomb and 1 amry razes it
found another town so we have access to Myceneae, bomb and raze, gain 2 artillery in the process
the Persian towns on this side have gone, Ottoman is next
contemplate making peace with Persia since we have to focus on Ottoman now
get peace and they are willing to give additional 300g

IT another 6 sipahi attack but we defeat or retreat them all

5. 1525AD
MM and increase science to 70% to get MT in 2
raze Kirkrakeli and advance towards Zonguldak (pop18)

IT Ottoman sipahi attack Celts instead of us, thats the way it should work

6. 1530AD
no good, WW hits us again
we still have an RoP with Celts for another 12 turns, that's when we can start to switch sides
increase lux to 30%, with MT coming in next turn, give Persia mass production for ivory and all their gold (800g)
kill 4 siphai in the hinterland and bomb the 4 defenders of Zongu..., armies raze it
raze Catagoronium on the other edn to get access to furs
shift artillery and some armies to the east since we have faster access from there

IT a lux deal is up with the Celts, too cheap and we need to go to war, so cancel it
we get the all important MT, next is flight in 7 at -147gpt

7. 1535AD
found a city to give us access to furs, we currently have all 8 luxes
reduce lux to 20%
in the east raze Bukhara, pause the rest, we need to combine artillery

IT as expected furtown is the target of the attacks, we lose 2 units there
cancel the dyes deal as well with Celts
Tlaxcala deposes us as well...1 more turns and Aztecs are history anyway

8. 1540AD
raze Merw in the east and Glanum in the west
prepare to take out the Aztecs next turn

IT more Ottoman sipahi

9. 1545AD
cancel peace and declare on Aztecs
take 2 towns back,defeat the settler pair and you wouldn't believe it, they are still not destroyed
where do they have a settler pair now
raze Riza, a landed army in the east pillages Ottoman's oil, now at least they have none
send another covnoy over this includes 4 empty armies to be filled with tanks

IT lose a 7hp cav army

10. 1550AD
raze Denizli, this gives us access to town behind
fill 1st tank army and send it to the front
with tanks, this war should speed up a lot

next player, please do MM before the IT, I was too exhausted from the many turns
we need to find Aztecs, maybe fight Ottoman until the next level of WW hits then switch to Celts
and the Persia, which started to fill the voids with their towns, which is highly annyoing
flight is due in 3

the western part of the front, Aydin can be bombed and razed next turn, the other big stack of arty is in the center

the eastern part of the front, Bingol can be attacked next turn with arty support

 

[Heroes]

Going conquest rather than domination?

 

[ThERat]

Going conquest rather than domination?

well we do have 5 settlers ready and are at 50+%, but I will follow Greebley's wish and I think we tanks now, we can trash the enemy faster than before.

 

[Heroes]

well we do have 5 settlers ready and are at 50+%, but I will follow Greebley's wish and I think we tanks now, we can trash the enemy faster than before.

OK, got it then.

 

[Greebley]

I am guessing progress will be fast now

Roster:
Greebley
ThERat - Just Played
Heroes - Up
Northern Pike - On Deck
Obormot

BTW, after the initial Civ4 rush, I may consider trying to win vs 30 civs on Pangea (first start) on Monarchy. If anyone is interested enough, tell me and I will pm you/reserve a spot if I do start it. It probably won't be until next year. I like Civ3 enough to keep playing it now and then. Indicating interest is not a commitment to play - just that you think you might want to if you had time.

I wanted to try Pangea the first time, but was unsure how hard it would be.

 

[Own]

lurker's comment: Don't mean to spam the thread, maybe PM would be better, but I would be interested. Gonna get a new computer that could handle the big files and it would be fun.

 

[ThERat]

BTW, after the initial Civ4 rush, I may consider trying to win vs 30 civs on Pangea (first start) on Monarchy.

I would be up for that challenge. I think it will be much tougher than Gr7, but still interesting. I have a slight feeling that AW in Civ3 is somewhat different and maybe more playable than Civ4. (just a feeling from gathering info here on the forum)

 

[Own]

I bet Civ4 always war will still be a good game though, if it has it's own check to play.

 

[Heroes]

Since every turn is getting quite long, could we change it to 5 turns per person?

 

[Greebley]

Definitely. I usually give the players a choice to play 5 or 10 (and tend to go for 5 myself unless I have lots of time).

So ya, play 5.

 

[Greebley]

I would be up for that challenge. I think it will be much tougher than Gr7, but still interesting. I have a slight feeling that AW in Civ3 is somewhat different and maybe more playable than Civ4. (just a feeling from gathering info here on the forum)

I think GR7 has both the advantage of continents and it had a good starting loc as well, so ya, I agree on it being tougher.

Ya, it will be interesting to compare civ3 AW vs civ4. I too am guessing that Civ 3 AW will be the more interesting/playable. For example, Civ 3 armies add quite a bit to Civ 3 AW. They are powerful, yes, but not enough to make every game a win. They are a limited resource that requires tough decisions - defend? raze? pillage? it is different in different games.

Civ 4 may AW may have its strategic bits, but I will miss armies and the compexity they add to AW. I think anyone who thinks armies detract from Civ3 AW is just plain wrong - the AI's and players advantages are both powerful and very different, but the balance on the right difficulties is very interesting. Also I think Civ4 is more interactive, which while a huge plus in normal games may become a minus in AW. Even the AI's weaknesses add a dimension of challenge and allow things to be much more intense than they would be if they simply slaughtered everything. I think the armies add a strategic element that will be missing from Civ4. If all you have is normal units, it will be much more tactical because what you can do is much more limited. Of course, I am probably at the far side of the spectrum (pro C3C AW) - I am sure that I have played more AW SG's than anyone (with Handy being second - mostly because I can play more games than he - having more free time).

The military vs research balance is another thing I enjoy about AW, that I think will be part of the appeal in Civ4 AW as it was in Civ3. The new unit balances will also be in Civ4's advantage - what military to build was part of Civ3, but mostly a simpler choice of defense vs offense vs artillery. Finally, the smarter AI hold promise and will certainly require different strategies. So there is much to be explored in Civ4 AW. In fact, I am very pleased that Civ4 is so different from Civ3.

I will probably remain interested in both, but I may end up playing a lot more regular civ4 games vs AW than I do in civ3. It just seems better suited with the improved diplo and interaction of civs.

 

[Northern Pike]

BTW, after the initial Civ4 rush, I may consider trying to win vs 30 civs on Pangea (first start) on Monarchy. If anyone is interested enough, tell me and I will pm you/reserve a spot if I do start it. It probably won't be until next year. I like Civ3 enough to keep playing it now and then. Indicating interest is not a commitment to play - just that you think you might want to if you had time.

I'd be interested. It's not as though I'm going to be playing Civ IV, since my computer--a little less than three years old, and not low-end junk when I bought it--doesn't meet the requirements.

 

[ThERat]

Greebley, that's an excellent analysis of AW games, at least as Civ3 is concerned...I felt it can be a huge challenge with so many options. Civ4 AW remains to be seen how well it is.

 

[Northern Pike]

It's hard to believe that Civ IV, which seems to have been designed to make war slower and more difficult, will be as rewarding an AW platform as Civ III, which is a warmonger's delight. But I suppose we'll see.

 

[Heroes]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/gr8_ad1575_kill_turkey.zip

Preturn, 1550 AD (300):
Wow, we have played 300 turns!
We own 160 cities, 55% world area, 58% world pop, 309 units: 6 settlers, 34 workers, 48 cavalries, 52 infantries, 12 tanks, 106 artilleries, 16 transports, 11 destroyers, 15 armies, 2 guerillas, and 7 old good brave brilliant great Enkidu Warriors. Allowed units are 308, so we exactly pay 2 gpt.
We have 1385 gold, 50% science, 20% lux, flight due in 3 turns with -31 gpt.
Our rivals:
Aztecs: they are literally eliminated twice, but they still have a mysterious settler somewhere!
BTW: Our military advisor says: "Let's plant spies to learn more about our enemies (and our allies)!"
Ottomans: 28 cities, monarchy, at war, down motorized transportation, fighting Celts.
Plant a spy: they have 100 infantries, 27 sipahi, 17 artilleries, and 26 frigates.
Celts: 26 cities, fascism, 8 turns of RoP, down combustion and electronics.
Plant a spy: 86 infantries, 15 cavalries, 7 artilleries, and 16 frigates
Persia: 19 cities, fascism, down MT, peace with everyone. Already have a spy: 73 infantries, 8 cavalries, 6 artilleries, 3 frigates, and 1 destroyer.

We have a lot of units having movement ... Takes some effort to activate all (hopefully!) of them.
Use the tank army and 6th cav army to kill a vet and a regular infantry, then raze Aydin. A battle settler goes there and found Furtown 2, controlling 3 more furs.

Do some diplomacy:
Celts: wine + incense = MA. vs. Ottomans and Aztecs + WM + all their 81 gold. They become polite to us, well, I know you will become furious soon ...
Persia: wine + dye + incense + spice + silk + gem + fur (all the 7 lux they don't have) + world map + RoP = MA vs. Ottomans and Aztecs + world map + 620 gold.
They know where is the Aztec ship, and after they kill off Aztecs, these treaties are spontaneously void, so we get their free help and cash.

Use our infrantries to protect artilleries, workers, wounded units, etc. to replace some armies. A battle settler goes to control tiles for bombing Konya and Urfa, escorted by 3 infantries.

Lots of MM ...? Yes it is! I wanted to mobilize, but then found that it cannot help us much since most productive cities are 2-turn or 3-turn tank factories.

IT: We lose an infantry to a sipahi. The rampaging Persia destroys Aztecs!
WLTKD in many cities. Lord McCauley completes "the most advanced nations of the world", and we are "glorious".

1555 AD (301):
Bomb a whole lot, kill 6 defenders, and capture Nemausus.
Found New Kissura 2, open the door to bomb Konya. Capture it after killing 4 infantries.
Build a new railroad to bomb Urfa, capture it after killing 4 defenders. Found New Der 2 to bomb Yamama. Capture it with 19 resistors.
Bomb Bingol but the top defender still has 2 HP. To do more bombardment, move a setter near New Der 2, abandon New Der 2, and settle the new guy. Thus we raze Bingol, a size 28 city, and gain 13 slaves.
Found New Kua 2 on a polluted grassland to bomb Fustat, and its central tile cleans pollution automatically.
Bomb again and capture Sinop with 18 resistors. Run out of attackers and targets.
Send out the last 2 battle settler to deal with eastern coastal cities and Istanbul.
Spare arts go to flank Salonika, and bomb Turkish infantries inside Celt territory.
Cover everywhere, and rush 3 battle settlers.
IT: Turkish infantries try to get their cities back, and get hit by our zone of control.
People finish expanding our palace.

1560 AD (302):
Battle settlers build 2 outposts. Bomb Mansura and capture it, move in 2 transports of arts.
An unholy amount of arts are used to redline 5 infantries in Ankara. Tank army and cavs capture it. Another 32 arts redline 7 infs in Istanbul. Send in 2 tank and 1 cav armies, they show a redlined sipahi up. Two more cavs mop up 2 sipahies, then we capture it with Temple of Artemis, 5 artilleries, and 7 slaves.
Bomb from a moutain near Ankara, then we capture Bursa and Shakespear's Theater.
What, there are Shangian tribes near New Kisurra 2?! I know they can use railroad! Send in 2 infs are we get the great 25 gold!
Fire from the moutain used to bomb Mansura again, and we capture Muscat.
Found New Kutha 2 to bomb Fez ... Why there is a Persian worker inside Fez's border?! We run out of attackers, but raze Fez and destroy a galleon at last. There is no Ottoman city in eastern coast now.
Still 25 arts ... To do more damage, need to borrow road from Persia:
MA vs. Ottomans + RoP + wine + dye + incense + gem + silk = all their 532 gold + 5 gpt + WM.
From a banana near Persian city Kafa, hit Uskudar, capture it and 3 arts. Now 13 arts are free, but we can't attack any more city in this turn.
Send out 3 battle settlers, find a stray inf to bomb. The rest go to protect battle settlers. Oh, find 4 ships to hit! Our destroyers take care of them, and even a regular one gets promoted!
Increase science to 60% and hire a lot of scientists to get flight done.
IT: We become modern, and learn ecology. Nemausus deposes ... to Celts!

1565 AD (303):
Persia gets flight too.
Since we get ecology, begin to research synthetic fibers, due in 10 turns with -86 gpt.
Make 3 new outposts, bomb Turkish new capital Edrine. Capture it and Universal Suffrage! Guess this wonder is helpful ...
From the same outpost, bomb Mugla, capture it, and all the 17 people resist.
Go south, capture Basra, which opens the doors to Izmit and Kufah. Capture Izmit, which opens the door to Khurasan. Use up attackers to capture Khurasan. Found another outpost for Najran, but for next turn.
With help of arts, sink 3 frigates.
Drop lux to 0% and raise science to 60%, SF in 9 turns with +25 gpt.
IT: Celts and Ottomans slaughter each other in Salonika.

1570 AD (304):
From Khurasan, capture Najran. From a new outpost, capture Ottoman new capital Iznik, and control the Great Wall!
From mountain near Basra, capture Kufah and destroy a galleon. The only suitable position for a outpost to Damascus is a cow, so be it. After capturing Damascus, all the eastern Ottoman cities are gone.
The Celts and Persians are too weak to take down Salonika, so let's help them. Then move a settler into a rubber near Salonika, abandon the city, settle the battle guy, bomb the new capital Bolu and capture it. Osman is doing OCC now. Unfortunately, their last city is protected pretty well by jungles, mountains, and hills. Must wait to next turn.
Send in a battle settler, and see 3 Persian units blocking our way for next turn. OK, let's go to another direction.
Clear 3 stray infs, and for the 1st time a tank does blitz and get promoted. Ottomans has 5 infs left. Sink 3 ships.
IT: Ottomans stands assault of Persians. Ur finishes our 1st man-made army.
Mugla deposes, and Yamama ...

1575 AD (305):
We have 5 armies and 3 cavs standing near Antalya, but there is only 1 wounded infantry left inside, capture it with ease. Ottomans drafts some rifles in the deposed cities, but thank to our outposts, bomb them again and a cav promotes.
Yamama has rubber, so they get infantries there. Before attacking the 3 redlined infs, have a look at their force: 5 infs, 12 frigates, 2 galleons, 1 transport, 13 sipahis. Interestingly, these sipahis are left in a 2-whale island for many turns! Send in the full strength 6th cavalry army (generated in the 2nd Hittites war), capture the city, and we say farewell to the glorious Ottomans!
We end up with 196 cities, 63% world area and 78% world population. I give the save here. Should we go to eliminate Celts and Persia, disband some cities lest reaching domination limit, or settle several new cities and win immediately? There are 5 settlers in Halicarnassus.

 

[Heroes]

We finish off Ottomans from the rubber:

 

[Northern Pike]

Good work. I'll try to finish it off with a conquest victory.

 

[Greebley]

NP is up. I think he wanted conquest too, so we might as well spend the time destroying the celts. By the end of his turn he will have MA, so it won't take long I am guessing.

Roster:
Greebley
ThERat
Heroes - Just Played
Northern Pike - Up
Obormot - On Deck

NP, If you are a few turns from the finish then just finish up.

 

[Greebley]

NP, Do you have an idea when you are going to be able to finish this up? No real rush as long as we do see the end.

 

[Northern Pike]

Sorry about the delay. RL has been limiting me to one of these long turns an evening, and sometimes not even that. But the AI civs are down to about fifteen cities, and I should have the final position posted in the next two days.

At the time when I could have taken their last city--though I didn't, so as to keep stealing their plans--the Persians had four settlers at sea. I've never seen that before.