Grant us a loan of gold?
- Thread starter Rohili
- Start date
Me-262
playing my guitar loud
i've done it once.I don't do it because they will get all the money back and more.
ive done it a few times. most recently about 3000 gold for (best i remember) something like 200gpt. honestly i dont remember what i wanted the gold for. maybe it was espionage against someone else. one of those things where it will take 10 turns to get up the gold to buy it or to research it but i need it now because im at war now. its not all dependent on reputation, although no doubt a bad rep will make it impossible. sometimes one rich ai will refuse you but another will do it.
Pentium
Digital Matter
Does Elizabeth really never loans? She is the only one that I saw has a moto.
Scuffer
Scuffer says...
They won't be able to loan you more than they have in the treasury, so on lower levels the option won't be worthwhile as often.
Like any loan, they will want interest, but bear in mind that in 20 turns times, your economy will be stronger, new more expensive techs and units will be available, and the gpt repayment will a smaller percentage of your income than when you started.
Like any loan, they will want interest, but bear in mind that in 20 turns times, your economy will be stronger, new more expensive techs and units will be available, and the gpt repayment will a smaller percentage of your income than when you started.
Khan_Asparuh
Just a Bulgarian Eddie
I've allready tried, the rates are really high, you can negociate easily lower prices (once they offered me 17 g for 1 gpt and of course, in negociation the price became 19 g)
budweiser
King of the Beers
There is a whole strategy which is rather advanced which is based on borrowing money from the ai and paying them back over time. The idea is to keep large sums of money out of their hands so they can not use it for things like troop upgrades and alliances against you. I think moonsinger was the first one to come up with it.
I think this is the link.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=88786
I am really interested in this and I would like to learn more about the details of how it works if anyone knows. It's one of the things I have been meaning to try.
I think this is the link.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=88786
I am really interested in this and I would like to learn more about the details of how it works if anyone knows. It's one of the things I have been meaning to try.
Khan_Asparuh
Just a Bulgarian Eddie
Well the inverse strategy is not bad neither, Banker's gambit.
I don't know where the article is, I thought in WarAcademy but I cant find it.
However, it consists in taking every gpt the AI has in exchange of cash. Tripple effect:
- interest rate - can reach 10% sometimes (rarely); worth two times the Wall Street if the AI respects its engagements, sky (or AI economy) is the limit.
- attitude bonus (common to the other strategy), its a deal after all.
- cripples AI research - you can take a really nice lead.
AI uses money to rush buildings, so it pays 4 gold for each shield (if not more, I've never tested this - does AI wait for the first shields to come or pays the initial price of 16 gold for shield???). A good investment IMO, not for a warmonger but it depends of the game.
This is why I love Joan too (I live in France, but this doesn't change things, I'm not french). She allways pays good prices for my gold.
I don't know where the article is, I thought in WarAcademy but I cant find it.
However, it consists in taking every gpt the AI has in exchange of cash. Tripple effect:
- interest rate - can reach 10% sometimes (rarely); worth two times the Wall Street if the AI respects its engagements, sky (or AI economy) is the limit.
- attitude bonus (common to the other strategy), its a deal after all.
- cripples AI research - you can take a really nice lead.
AI uses money to rush buildings, so it pays 4 gold for each shield (if not more, I've never tested this - does AI wait for the first shields to come or pays the initial price of 16 gold for shield???). A good investment IMO, not for a warmonger but it depends of the game.
This is why I love Joan too (I live in France, but this doesn't change things, I'm not french). She allways pays good prices for my gold.
budweiser said:
I don't know whether I practice this at the highest level, but I do it all the time. Borrowing money from an AI makes that AI less likely to attack you, and if they do, they forfeit the loan. Incidentally, as you note, they have less money for immediate upgrades and so on. This requires attention every turn.
If you don't have the patience for working a deal with every AI every turn, you can at least use this to start defensive wars with money. Since the AIs usually telegraph their warlike intentions, you can borrow gold from them when you realize they are planning to attack you. They cannot recall their troops in that case, so you make a profit.
One of the best uses for this strategy seems to be at the beginning of a war that I start. I can borrow from an AI on one border, then start a war with another AI, using the borrowed cash to buy an alliance with a third neighboring AI. In that way, I make one AI difficult for my enemy to buy into an alliance, another becomes my ally, and I still have the cash I started with for upgrades. At the end of the day I have a larger territory, so even at the high interest rates that the AIs charge, I profit.
FM_Freyland
Vote with your wallets!
IbnSina said:
Won't this affect your rep, since you 'broke' a deal to provide gpt? I realize that they declared war, but still....
Jonathan
Rohili said:Has anyone ever succesfully managed to get gold loans from the AI? In all my playing time I've never ever gotten this to work, no matter how rich the AI is and how good relations we have.
I do it all the time! This is one of my favorite trick!
Ok, I will tell you how, but I better keep my voice down before someone petition to ban it.
#1. First, make sure you have a decent econmy going...because AIs won't lend you money if they think you can't pay them back.
#2. Before you ask them for a loan, set both your science and luxury sliders down to zero.
#3. Test to see if they are willing to give you a loan. Just ask to lend you 1 gold and offer to pay them back 5 gpt or more. If they say "no", they won't deal no matter what (you probably have a bad rep). If they say "yes", you are in business. Btw, they usually say yes...in fact, they have never said no to me.
#4. Only do this if they said yes in step #3. If you are so rich, you can skip this step. If you are poor, you can do this step to fool them into thinking that you are rich. Note: By definition from step #1, they won't lend you money if they think you are poor. Basically, you need to set all of your citizens into tax collectors. This can be very time consuming process.
#5. Now, make your deal.
#6. Remember to set all your citizens and both your sliders back to normal before you end your turn.
That's pretty much all there is to it. Work every time! Note: After borrowing a lot of money from them, you should be thinking of a way of not paying them back soon...like provoking them into declaring war or something. I'm not going to get into another ethical debate on this issue; therefore, if you think it's an exploit, don't do it; otherwise, have fun!
im not going to criticize moon for using the cash loan trick because it's my style to play dirty with the ai as well. i will however take this opportunity to suggest that we eliminate the prohibition on rop exploit from tournament or scored play once and for all. same with the worker baiting one. hey! weve grown up! we've learned far more valueable exploits than that kid-stuff that we are banned from doing 
rysingsun said:im not going to criticize moon for using the cash loan trick because it's my style to play dirty with the ai as well. i will however take this opportunity to suggest that we eliminate the prohibition on rop exploit from tournament or scored play once and for all. same with the worker baiting one. hey! weve grown up! we've learned far more valueable exploits than that kid-stuff that we are banned from doing
Very funny!
Very true actually! ROP exploit is really kid-stuff. I have stopped using that tricks for over a year now.
.
Bungus
Archont of Cootertown
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2004
- Messages
- 1,165
I think you forgot to mention: Make sure you can win the war! 500 free gold doesn't help you much if a mob of cavalry is toppling your citiesMoonsinger said:I do it all the time! This is one of my favorite trick!
#1. First, make sure you have a decent econmy going...because AIs won't lend you money if they think you can't pay them back.
#2. Before you ask them for a loan, set both your science and luxury sliders down to zero.
#3. Test to see if they are willing to give you a loan. Just ask to lend you 1 gold and offer to pay them back 5 gpt or more. If they say "no", they won't deal no matter what (you probably have a bad rep). If they say "yes", you are in business. Btw, they usually say yes...in fact, they have never said no to me.
#4. Only do this if they said yes in step #3. If you are so rich, you can skip this step. If you are poor, you can do this step to fool them into thinking that you are rich. Note: By definition from step #1, they won't lend you money if they think you are poor. Basically, you need to set all of your citizens into tax collectors. This can be very time consuming process.
#5. Now, make your deal.
#6. Remember to set all your citizens and both your sliders back to normal before you end your turn.
That's pretty much all there is to it. Work every time! Note: After borrowing a lot of money from them, you should be thinking of a way of not paying them back soon...like provoking them into declaring war or something. I'm not going to get into another ethical debate on this issue; therefore, if you think it's an exploit, don't do it; otherwise, have fun!
Btw, I'd definately cosider that an exploit. Poor AI, never saw it coming
