Should the US be a Dictatorship?

Tribute instead of tariffs would certainly suit these deranged imperial pronouncements.
 
again i think the point of tariffs may be onr of twofold, if he has an actual rational endgoal for this:
- switch federal funding burdens straight onto regular consumers, allowing him to cut income taxes (particularly for the wealthy
- literally create a crisis on purpose (fascists have an easier time taking over bad economies)
 
Americans historically have responded poorly to politicians wrecking the economy (or being in power when the economy slumps). I think even Trump would find it hard to deliberately wreck the economy and then be able to seem as the only person to fix it.
 
Where's Ra's Al Ghul when you need him?
 
Hygro said:
Tariffs are nothing compared to the takeover of the treasury
Click to expand...

Unambiguously a coup, what has happened. He has full access now to USAID too.

One of the dudes working with Elon at the Treasury is a 19 year old who goes by “Fat Balls”
 
What an exciting time for historians of autocracy
 
Arakhor said:
Americans historically have responded poorly to politicians wrecking the economy (or being in power when the economy slumps). I think even Trump would find it hard to deliberately wreck the economy and then be able to seem as the only person to fix it.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is that this guy can just blame whoever he wants and his brainwashed followers will accept it as truth.
 
Angst said:
on the tariffs, i was at a loss as to the point. trump said during it that it had nothing to do with concessions. it's just gonna happen.

but here's what it functionally does: it's a tax shift going towards the common consumer, no?

i think the reason for this is really boring. we're gonna see a tax cut for the wealthy in a bit. this actually explains a few random things they did, too. beyond sheer craziness and hate, a lot of this functionally kneecaps federally subsidized income below the plutocrat level. this money will go somewhere. i'm thinking elon. poor guy can only afford one fake path of exile 2 character.
Click to expand...
I think it's best to explain what's probably going on here...

From what I understand, Trump's legal reasoning is that the tariffs are necessarily to combat drug smuggling and illegal immigration (or both at the very same time). He has in effect declared an emergency under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (wikipedia), which allows him to freeze assets in certain "emergencies." E.g. if Iran takes US embassy hostages like they did in 1979, they don't get to do banking in the US.

Trump has mentioned the drug issue at least once before:
Klaus Hergersheimer

Thread 'Drugs and the US market'

Moderator Action: Split from Trump thread.


I'm sure any economist can tell you, the importing companies pay a higher price for the goods to offset the tariff and that this is passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. It's effectively just a tax, although what it's supposed to do is anyone's guess...Subsidies for American cottage industries maybe?

anyway
Seems to be Trump wants to punish China and Mexico with tariffs because of (are you ready for this?) drug smuggling into the US. Drugs like fentanyl pass through China (actually originating in the "Golden Triangle" in Southeast Asia...

The problem is neither of these two crimes are particularly unique enough to warrant that; both are a common-enough occurrence for border patrol to contend with daily. Nor are Canada and Mexico poised for any kind of attack, economic or otherwise on the US, from what I know that they're some kind of danger.
Trump has yet to make this case.
If a president can do anything in an emergency, and an emergency is whatever he says it is, then there is effectively no limit to what he can do.

As to what's going on inside Trump's head, another article has him quoted as saying the US has big trade deficits that it wants to close:

www.ft.com

Donald Trump threatens to ignite era of trade wars with new tariffs

US president says he will hit Canada, Mexico, China and EU with levies as he targets major trading partners
www.ft.com www.ft.com
(non paywall):

Donald Trump threatens to ignite era of trade wars with new tariffs​

US president says he will hit Canada, Mexico, China and EU with levies as he targets major trading partners
Donald Trump
Donald Trump acknowledged the new tariffs could cause some market ‘disruption’ as importers passed on the increased cost of goods to consumers © Reuters



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Donald Trump has said he will hit the EU with tariffs, adding the bloc to a list of targets including Canada and Mexico and bringing the US to the brink of new trade wars with its biggest trading partners.
The US president acknowledged that the new tariffs could cause some market “disruption”, but claimed they would help the country close its trade deficits.
“The tariffs are going to make us very rich, and very strong,” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office.
Hours before his plan for tariffs of 25 per cent on Canada and Mexico was due to take effect on February 1, Trump also widened his threat to include the EU, which he said had treated the US “very badly”.
“Am I going to impose tariffs on the European Union? . . . Absolutely,” Trump said. “They don’t take our cars, they don’t take our farm products, essentially, they don’t take almost anything,” he said. “And we have a tremendous deficit with the European Union. So we’ll be doing something very substantial with the European Union.”
The president’s comments, coming less than two weeks after his return to the White House, marked a sharp escalation in his rhetoric on trade and mean the world’s biggest economy is on the verge of imposing tariffs on its most significant trading partners.
US goods imports from the EU, Canada, Mexico and China were $1.9tn in 2023, about 60 per cent of the total, according to customs database Trade Data Monitor.
The European Commission said it was “not aware of any additional tariffs being imposed on EU products” and said tariffs “create unnecessary economic disruption”.
“Our trade and investment relationship with the US is the biggest in the world,” said chief spokesperson Paula Pinho. “Open markets and respect for international trade rules are essential for strong and sustainable economic growth.”
Trump said he would also “eventually” put tariffs on chips and “things associated with chips”, and would apply tariffs to oil, gas, steel, copper, aluminium and pharmaceuticals.
Tariffs on steel and aluminium could come as soon as “this month, next month”, he said, while oil and gas tariffs would happen around February 18.
The US dollar strengthened on Trump’s comments, leaving an index of the currency against six peers up about 0.6 per cent. West Texas Intermediate, the US oil benchmark, rose more than 1 per cent to $73.81 a barrel.
Trump said he would “probably” reduce the tariffs on Canadian oil to 10 per cent, although other imports from the country would be taxed at 25 per cent. Canada is by far the US’s biggest foreign oil supplier, accounting for about 60 per cent of its crude imports.
The president said there was “nothing” Canada and Mexico could do overnight to prevent him from applying tariffs against their imports.
“It’s not a negotiating tool,” Trump said. “It’s pure economic. We have big deficits with, as you know, with all three of them.”
Economists say sweeping tariffs would be inflationary and could prevent the Federal Reserve from reducing borrowing costs as much as anticipated this year. Some central bank officials had already started including Trump’s policies in their forecasts in December, before he took office.
Hitting the US’s biggest trading partners with steep tariffs sharply raises the risks of igniting full-blown trade wars just days into Trump’s second term as president.
Both Canada and Mexico have prepared packages of retaliatory tariffs and are ready to implement them. The EU has also said it would defend itself with retaliatory tariffs, as it did in Trump’s first term.

“We’re ready with a response — a purposeful, forceful but reasonable, immediate response,” Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said on Friday. The Liberal premier warned Canadians that the nation “could be facing difficult times in the coming days and weeks”.
Canada’s former finance minister Chrystia Freeland, who is running to replace Trudeau, on Friday urged Ottawa to retaliate against any US tariffs by adding huge levies on Tesla vehicles to punish Elon Musk, one of Trump’s top allies.
Trump indicated he was unmoved by economists’ warnings that new tariffs would hurt the US economy or risk a leap in inflation as importers passed on the increased cost of their goods to consumers.
“Tariffs don’t cause inflation, they cause success,” he said.
But Democrats warned much of the burden would be passed on to American consumers. “Donald Trump is aiming his new tariffs at Mexico, Canada and China but they will likely hit Americans in their wallets,” said Chuck Schumer, the Senate minority leader.
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“If these tariffs go into full effect, they will raise prices for everything from groceries, to cars, to gas, making it even harder for middle-class families to just get by.”
Trump first threatened to hit Canada, Mexico and China with steep tariffs in November, accusing them of allowing illegal migration and not doing enough to halt trade in fentanyl, an illegal and deadly opioid.
Business lobbyists in Washington, worried about the effects on US supply chains and the costs of goods, had hoped that the president would take a more moderate approach and not immediately apply a 25 per cent levy.
Other options included delaying the tariffs to allow the Canadian and Mexican governments more time to negotiate with the Trump team over border security, or introducing the tariffs gradually and increasing them over time.

Additional reporting by Harriet Clarfelt
Click to expand...

"It's not a negotiating tool. It's pure economic [sic]." He doesn't want concessions back.
So in a nutshell: Trump thinks US trade is imbalanced because it's importing more than it is exporting, and tariffs are hopefully going to slow imports. An emergency gives him the excuse he wants.
This is like basic mercantilism stuff here.
 
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@Klaus Hergersheimer

problem is just that in spite of the idiotic things he does, i just don't think he's actually dumb enough to think mercantilist practices will secure any form of protectionism. he does have a business background, even if a poor one, and atm his team is littered with billionaires that hate protectionism and just want tax cuts. this is why i wagered this would be a way to secure revenue to just cut income tax.

of course, he might just be that dumb. idk. i often read too much competence into people. :/
 
Angst said:
@Klaus Hergersheimer

problem is just that in spite of the idiotic things he does, i just don't think he's actually dumb enough to think mercantilist practices will secure any form of protectionism. he does have a business background, even if a poor one, and atm his team is littered with billionaires that hate protectionism and just want tax cuts. this is why i wagered this would be a way to secure revenue to just cut income tax.

of course, he might just be that dumb. idk. i often read too much competence into people. :/
Click to expand...
I think there's clearly different streams of stuff being driven by different people as they carve up the spoils - eg Musk and his group of twerps setting themselves up in the public service to bully trans people and take over the payroll building is its own autonomous beast, the population expulsion agenda in the immigration area has its own leaders, that brain worm lunatic is having his way with the health infrastructure, and of course there's people just doing graft for their own business interests. A lot of it is obviously pretty autonomous and chaotic from area to area.

However there's also things that are just Trump's personal fixations. Like all the weird fire stuff is just Trump drawing on a hurricane projection again, ordering floods like an old testament tyrant is clearly all Trump's own personal interest. There's definitely question as to where the trade war and imperialism comes from, whether it's all him or one of the underling factions.

But it's so strange and idiosyncratic that it's probably pretty much all coming from him as well. Most of the rest of the coalition behind him aren't into that stuff, they're too busy stealing things, attempting to murder classes of people, or just trying to get their kids to love them and make people think they're cool. Maybe someone has been whispering to him that just wants to sow division in the west (hmmm), but honestly? My money is just on this all being a product of his fascination with and envy of authoritarian strongmen leaders in other countries. The dude is a gangster and wannabe caudillo by instinct. I just remember all the fawning he did over some of them in his last term, why wouldn't he want some of that juice now that he's on his revenge tour?
 
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Arwon said:
I think there's clearly different streams of stuff being driven by different people as they carve up the spoils - eg Musk and his group of twerps setting themselves up in the public service to bully trans people and take over the payroll building is its own autonomous beast, the population expulsion agenda in the immigration area has its own leaders, that brain worm lunatic is having his way with the health infrastructure, and of course there's people just doing graft for their own business interests. A lot of it is obviously pretty autonomous and chaotic from area to area.

However there's also things that are just Trump's personal fixations. Like all the weird fire stuff is just Trump drawing on a hurricane projection again, ordering floods like an old testament tyrant is clearly all Trump's own personal interest. There's definitely question as to where the trade war and imperialism comes from, whether it's all him or one of the underling factions.

But it's so strange and idiosyncratic that it's probably pretty much all coming from him as well. Most of the rest of the coalition behind him aren't into that stuff, they're too busy stealing things, attempting to murder classes of people, or just trying to get their kids to love them and make people think they're cool. Maybe someone has been whispering to him that just wants to sow division in the west (hmmm), but honestly? My money is just on this all being a product of his fascination with and envy of authoritarian strongmen leaders in other countries. The dude is a gangster and wannabe caudillo by instinct. I just remember all the fawning he did over some of them in his last term, why wouldn't he want some of that juice now that he's on his revenge tour?
Click to expand...
just wanted to say: makes sense i guess
 
Arwon said:
But it's so strange and idiosyncratic that it's probably pretty much all coming from him as well. Most of the rest of the coalition behind him aren't into that stuff, they're too busy stealing things, attempting to murder classes of people, or just trying to get their kids to love them and make people think they're cool. Maybe someone has been whispering to him that just wants to sow division in the west (hmmm), but honestly? My money is just on this all being a product of his fascination with and envy of authoritarian strongmen leaders in other countries. The dude is a gangster and wannabe caudillo by instinct. I just remember all the fawning he did over some of them in his last term, why wouldn't he want some of that juice now that he's on his revenge tour?
Click to expand...
It looks like people have been talking bullet-point US history to him. Things that seem to have gotten through is how making a permanent territorial expansion of the US marks one down in history as One Of The Great Presidents. His burgeoning trade war seems linked to the observation that this was how the US did it when it industrialized and rose to real power in the 19th c. – with the added bonus that back then the US didn't need to put income tax on people, since tariffs paid for all the government expenses – which is otherwise such a way-out-of-left-field concept for anything like a modern economy.

Trump already seems obsessed with legacy and history, and damned if he isn't going to rip up the play-book and do everything different – just to prove what a "stable genius" he is.

And I agree then there seems to be bits he is less concerned with, but happy enough to have his dogs fight over the scraps.
 
Angst said:
@Klaus Hergersheimer

problem is just that in spite of the idiotic things he does, i just don't think he's actually dumb enough to think mercantilist practices will secure any form of protectionism. he does have a business background, even if a poor one, and atm his team is littered with billionaires that hate protectionism and just want tax cuts. this is why i wagered this would be a way to secure revenue to just cut income tax.

of course, he might just be that dumb. idk. i often read too much competence into people. :/
Click to expand...
I don't know if he's dumb (well, he is dumb, but I mean mentally/intellectually) or not. But for a long while his and Congressional supporters' insistence has been that tariffs are a negotiating tool. His latest statements directly contradict that: this is intended to reduce the trade deficit.

My guess is, once he seems to perceive that his own idea is "slipping away" from him and becoming institutionalized by the regime at large, he wants to reclaim that mantle asap. This often leads to the embarrassment of his subordinates who are paid to try and help him.

It's all about him. There cannot be some sort of underlying ideological current behind his thought process, because that would mean someone else is trying to run with an idea that was his and only his to begin with.
He could be in a room of people who all decided to order takeout food instead of pack a lunch, then claim it was his idea in the first place. Some people just have weird ticks like that I guess...
 
Klaus Hergersheimer said:
I don't know if he's dumb (well, he is dumb, but I mean mentally/intellectually) or not. But for a long while his and Congressional supporters' insistence has been that tariffs are a negotiating tool. His latest statements directly contradict that: this is intended to reduce the trade deficit.
Click to expand...

There's also this:

apnews.com

Trump orders creation of US sovereign wealth fund, says it could own part of TikTok

President Donald Trump on Monday signed an executive order directing the U.S. to take steps to start developing a government-owned investment fund that he said could be used to profit off of TikTok if he’s successful at finding the company an American buyer.
apnews.com apnews.com

Sovereign Wealth Funds are financed by budgetary surplus, privatisations or through re-selling TikTok to the highest bidder.

So the only sustainable way to create & maintain USA wealth fund, to compete with wealth funds of Arabs, China, Singapore and Norway, is to cut down on government expenditure.

Goes without saying that honorary guardian director of such fund can be chosen, once that mysterious director is through with presidential duties.

But can Trump successfully cut down government expenditure, which would enable creation of USA Wealth Fund?

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that deficits will remain elevated in coming years, hovering around $1.5–$2 trillion annually, depending on policy decisions and economic performance.
Click to expand...

From what I read so far the Musk DOGE team has managed to find possible budget cuts for a grand total of $1 billion.

Fun statistics: at the rate of $1 billion in new cost cuts per week from now on DOGE team can achieve USA budgetary break even in just 28.85 years.
 
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new Turkey Soverign Fund is directly controlled by the PM . Nobody has an actual idea what goes on there .

just exactly similarly this US Soverign Fund will be directly controlled by Trump . He will pick whatever Federal thing he likes and place it in . As he couldn't nationalize any Musk or Bezos company and the like . Money is power . Godbillionaires are going to make extra tons of it ; Trump needs his own . For the times when the infighting begins .

ah , anyone who says Federal stuff can't be commercialized because US Laws ?

also print this in bold huge letters before you post in CFC again . Trump and his lot are smarter you would ever think . When compared to you , as you have absolutely nothing to stop them with the current ways . Like remember New Turkey if you are offended in some way .
 
Moriarte said:
There's also this:

apnews.com

Trump orders creation of US sovereign wealth fund, says it could own part of TikTok

President Donald Trump on Monday signed an executive order directing the U.S. to take steps to start developing a government-owned investment fund that he said could be used to profit off of TikTok if he’s successful at finding the company an American buyer.
apnews.com apnews.com

Sovereign Wealth Funds are financed by budgetary surplus, privatisations or through re-selling TikTok to the highest bidder.

So the only sustainable way to create & maintain USA wealth fund, to compete with wealth funds of Arabs, China, Singapore and Norway, is to cut down on government expenditure.

Goes without saying that honorary guardian director of such fund can be chosen, once that mysterious director is through with presidential duties.

But can Trump successfully cut down government expenditure, which would enable creation of USA Wealth Fund?



From what I read so far the Musk DOGE team has managed to find possible budget cuts for a grand total of $1 billion.

Fun statistics: at the rate of $1 billion in new cost cuts per week from now on DOGE team can achieve USA budgetary break even in just 28.85 years.
Click to expand...
highlighting this, and adding to r16 too; this kind of stuff is incredibly scary. sovereign funds are administrative blackouts where taxes vanish into a hole in exchange for island mansions and trafficking.

norway's fund is the only reasonably practical and moral fund i'm aware of, but norway is a unicorn. them all conservatives keep saying they can't reproduce scandinavian policies they don't like because of culture and/or size. here's their opportunity to drop that argument or, more likely, be hypocritical now that they have a king to bankroll.
 
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