(Graphic images) Just a friendly reminder

[joespaniel]

Originally posted by Sh3kel
I would kindly ask of you people to leave the unconnected Issues of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the upcoming war on Iraq as they are - unconnected Issues.

I agree on that point.

I do not feel in any way I am exploiting these images. I don't believe I am crude, sensationalistic or anything of the sort.

I didnt say you were crude, but this thread is. My intent was not to insult you personaly.

And the point you express is a noble one, without question.

Perhaps some bloody pictures of US servicemen in body bags would be an appropriate counter balance, to show the cost of what this endevour will be?

Lets tell the whole truth. I am not squeamish about these things.

I support the action that will likely begin in short order, and I am well aware of what it will be like for the men who will be sent to do it. I know about men like Saddam and what they do to people.

I will not challenge the moderator decision to let this stand, just voice my opinion that it was not necessary and possibly counter productive.

So I will not post here (in this thread) again.

 

[SunTzu]

i have no problem with the thread, i could've used those images on a presentation i did last week for English Composition II, btw i saw a post talking about the gassing of Helebja, just to add some more numbers, 5,000 were gassed/murderd in the town, 25,000 were maimed from the gas, 182,000 kurds disappeared, and the gasses used were Tabun and Sarin gas.
Just FYI

 

[ZultanofZex]

Well, we've all seen a few bloody bodies on this site before. It is perhaps influental for the kids, but I see no reason for posting them.

Apart from being useless in any grow up discussion, they do drag this forum into the dirt.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Here is the US president who condoned 1988's Helejba massacre with inaction, followed by the guy responsible for re-arming Saddam to kill more Kurds in 1990, followed by the guy who rebuilt Saddam's oilfields for his personal gain so that Saddam could raise the money he has used to build palaces, hide weapons, pay off terrorists, or some combination of the three. Trust them?

EDIT: Hmm, Cant do multiple attachments, so here's the second guy- link to any site about Bush sr. or Cheney to get the other photos.

 

[CrackedCrystal]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
The Iraqi people have not asked us to invade, in fact they have expressed publicly, privately, etc. that we are making a mistake. Yes there has been bad deeds by Saddam but many will die in the proposed cruise missile attack that would lead full lives, much property will be lost which is now fruitful, and our chance to avenge 1988 is long past. "Judgement is mine" saith the Lord - I can not grant you moral authority to kill. "Thou Shalt Not Kill" Moses was told, not "Kill the killers" - and Cain was merely exiled for the first murder...

They may have not asked to be invaded, but you need to understand how dictatorships work. And yes, despite the phoney election Iraq is a dictatorship. The person in power does everything possible to either brainwash his people or drain the spirit out of them. Barring that, they use force. The dictator will only allow them to choose from options that farthur his cause. If anyone strays from these choices, they will be punished or killed. So yes, no one is publicly saying they want Saddam gone because if they did, their families would be slaughtered and they would most likly be tortured before killed. Maybe even used as test subjects in some God-aweful experiments.

As an American, I feel bad for my fellow Americans. And this is not directed at you Sultan, but many people in this country think life is similar to how we live it in America. They don't realize in some parts of the world there is no such thing as free speach. If you speak your mind, you are shot.

 

[Graeme the mad]

"Apart from being useless in any grow up discussion, they do drag this forum into the dirt."

I disagree with this. Pictures are a legitimate means of communication - if Sh3kel had written about what was happened in Iraq it would not have the same effect as pictures in displaying what gas attacks acttually result in. Pictures help prevent us becoming removed from the results of things for which we argue. In the same way pictures of dead soldiers are legitimate.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Hey Sh3kel, got any pictures from say the past 5 years?

EDIT
@Cracked Crystal- I know all about a dictatorship, no need to talk down.


@THE MODERATORS: By allowing the images in the first post to stand you are sending the message that it is okay to show dead or mutilated bodies to support a belief that one stands for. Will you support that if I make an anti-landmine thread? Or a "What really happened in Nicaragua?" thread? Or a return to the Israel/Palestine debates?

 

[Graeme the mad]

THE MODERATORS: By allowing the images in the first post to stand you are sending the message that it is okay to show dead or mutilated bodies to support a belief that one stands for. Will you support that if I make an anti-landmine thread? Or a "What really happened in Nicaragua?" thread? Or a return to the Israel/Palestine debates?


Do you wish to make such a thread Sultan?? If you genuinely do -make one, only then can you see whether the mods would be biased.

 

[CrackedCrystal]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
@Cracked Crystal- I know all about a dictatorship, no need to talk down.

I tend to be very opinionated in political discussions. As you can tell from my posts in other threads. I also try to write my comments as a general "I am telling everyone this" tone. My intent is not to insult anyone's intelligence.

So accept this as an apology if you took it as such.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

@Graeme the mad- I don't really wish to make one. I'm against exploiting the image of dead children to make people feel guilty. And I'm sure it is harmful to Civfanatics Forums to have such photos posted.

@Cracked Crystal- no problem, (nice ambiguous wording in that last sentence though... ).

 

[CrackedCrystal]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
[B@Cracked Crystal- no problem, (nice ambiguous wording in that last sentence though... ). [/B]

Well I ment take the post as an appology if you thought I was insulting your intellegence.

As I read it though it is very ambiguous

 

[Phantom Lord]

Atrocities? You don't need to post pictures of dead children to describe one ...

 

[.:KNAS:.]

Hiroshima? You are aware that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than it took? Both Japanese and American, but mainly Japanese.

 

[CrackedCrystal]

Originally posted by .:KNAS:.
Hiroshima? You are aware that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than it took? Both Japanese and American, but mainly Japanese.

In my opinion it will save even more lives in the future. It showed the world the devistating effects of such weapons and now that bombs are 100x more powerful, it will hopefully act as a derterent to use them agian.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Originally posted by .:KNAS:.
Hiroshima? You are aware that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than it took? Both Japanese and American, but mainly Japanese.

Are you aware that that sentiment is unverifiable propaganda meant to make patriotic Americans feel better that we developed and were the only nation to use in war the ultimate weapon of mass destruction?

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

It's immpossible to be everywhere guys, I only became aware of the distisfaction when I was PMed about it.

World events are getting worse, I removed the picture, not the links.

I'm still undecided about that, and would like further comment on it.

 

[Phantom Lord]

Originally posted by .:KNAS:.
Hiroshima? You are aware that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved more lives than it took? Both Japanese and American, but mainly Japanese.

No I'm not. I'm aware that they have been dropped for reasons not exactly linked to humanitarian aspects. Claiming the humanitarian aspect of two nuke drops is a little cynical, isn't it?

 

[Phantom Lord]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
It's immpossible to be everywhere guys, I only became aware of the distisfaction when I was PMed about it.

World events are getting worse, I removed the picture, not the links.

I'm still undecided about that, and would like further comment on it.

Well, to be honest I've posted the Hiroshima picture in order to state my dissatisfaction of using pictures of dead children or links to such pictures in this thread. My intention was not to convert it into a discussion about WW2 atrocities, all nations involved have commited such. Hiroshima was the first thing that came to mind when I was thinking about the term "picture of atrocity without visible gore".

So I hereby declare that I personally would like to see such links removed in a computer game board, because they show violence to a degree not suited for the eyes of children imho. But it's up to you of course.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
It's immpossible to be everywhere guys, I only became aware of the distisfaction when I was PMed about it.

World events are getting worse, I removed the picture, not the links.

I'm still undecided about that, and would like further comment on it.

If they are clearly labelled as leading to graphic images, there is probably no harm in having them there. Sh3kel hurt his case more than he helped it by the looks of the responses.

As I've expressed before, it might help keep some order/sanity in these threads if we had one Iraq thread stickied and weren't opening up tangential threads (ie. this is why Bush hasn't proved his case is a thread, Powell's Case is a thread, when do we start shooting is a thread, what would urban warfare entail is two threads, what would you do if you were saddam is hundred threads, this is what saddam did in 1988 is this thread, these are some Palestinian kids with guns lets laugh at them is another thread, etc.).

Just a thought. I'm all for the proliferation of free speech, but some of these threads are becoming more like the "who do you hate" type threads that disintegrate into mindless bashing than legitimate discussions.

 

[Phantom Lord]

Maybe a single sticky would't be enough, that's the problem imho. The issue has too many aspects. Almost everyone, even the mods themselves interchange the subjects within the different threads sometimes, a single huge thread would probably lead to total confusion and the mods would have to renew it every few hours due to its rapid growing size.