Beniito
Warlord
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- Feb 16, 2017
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I'm curious, what happens after you "run out of resources to discover?"
do you just get another 2 extra copies of what you got before ?
Great Admiral buff ideas?
- Thread starter wobuffet
- Start date
do you just get another 2 extra copies of what you got before ?
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wobuffet
Barbarian
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This surprises me! In a domination game, don't you run up against the
unit Supply Cap regularly? I don't think I would ever mind having a spare GG around to steal land from neighbors, nabbing Natural Wonders or spare resources to establish Monopolies. And personally (as a pretty peacable player), I find that spamming Citadels greatly helps (or at least speeds up) conquest.I'm guessing
Happiness is often the bottleneck to conquest if you're a dedicated warmonger, then? Maybe what we need is a GAdm boost for peace-niks then, since warmongers get good use out of the Voyage of Discovery already.Thanks for the reply, G!
7
/turn is OK for most of the game but often not very significant by turn 200 or so, IMO. 1–2 Happiness might be pretty significant for warmongers but not so much for peacemongers.How about a quick and dirty peace-oriented addition to Voyage of Discovery?
e.g., +3
Culture per active 
Trade Route, scaling with era. (Thematically/historically, Great Admirals are those who paved the way for new, profitable trade routes). 
Tourism could work instead, too. And maybe restrict to International Trade Routes, for flavor.
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That GPT won't really be there if you're already at 10+ happiness...
tu_79
Deity
Well, if you're a peacemonger you won't get many great admirals anyways.
wobuffet
Barbarian
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True. Could happen if you're attacked a lot and maintain a naval defense though.
"Peacemonger" was probably overstating what I meant. For example, often I try to take over the Capital and maybe some satellites of one nearby weak neighbor, but then play peacefully for the rest of the game; depending how that plan goes, I might end up with 3 or 4 Great Admirals and no real need for their naval combat bonuses or a small amount of Happiness, meaning a Great Admiral ends up being something like a meh Great Merchant.
tu_79
Deity
I wouldn't bother for just a couple of admirals. You keep two just in case for self defense, you expend the other two for the luxuries and the yields granted for expending great people. You weren't actively looking for GA, so just enjoy what the AI granted to you.
tu_79
Deity
I wouldn't bother for just a couple of admirals. You keep two just in case for self defense, you expend the other two for the luxuries and the yields granted for expending great people. You weren't actively looking for GA, so just enjoy what the AI granted to you.
He is talking about trading one of the luxuries away. If the happiness you got from the luxury pushed you up 1 or 2% in all yields that would clearly be powerful enough.
wobuffet
Barbarian
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Ah, interesting!
Here's how I would adapt the idea:
Voyage of Discovery (v2): The Great Admiral can be expended in exchange for a copy of a Luxury not available on the current map, plus an extra copy for every 3 active Trade Route you have (e.g., you will gain a new copies of every previously obtained "Voyage of Discovery" Luxuries as you gain Trade Routes, just like Conscription with 
Population). You also gain a permanent +0.25 Happiness per Luxury.
I like this idea: rather than just getting a basically flat amount of Trade Route you have (e.g., you will gain a new copies of every previously obtained "Voyage of Discovery" Luxuries as you gain Trade Routes, just like Conscription with Population). You also gain a permanent +0.25 Happiness per Luxury.
Happiness from the Voyage that doesn't affect your previous/subsequent decision-making at all, now you need to (1) have maintained good relations with neighbors and (2) engage in some active trading to maximize the rewards here (also giving some edge to peaceable players).A flat
Happiness per Luxury bonus could be incorporated too, to keep the Voyage worthwhile for warmongers and "wide"r players. Thematically, this works too: higher empire-wide rewards for larger empires with sprawling trade networks.
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Here's how I would adapt the idea:
Voyage of Discovery (v2): The Great Admiral can be expended in exchange for a copy of a Luxury not available on the current map, plus an extra copy for each active
You seriously don't believe you're overdoing it? By like 500%?
wobuffet
Barbarian
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Do you seriously believe that's the most productive way to say that you think my proposal's too powerful?
Anyway, OK, edited to 1 extra copy for every 3
Trade Routes now. The flat happiness is to compensate Warmongers who would be better off with just a single copy of 2 different Luxuries. Most games I cap out at 8–11 Luxes or so (though I usually play Small maps), so this doesn't seem too big to me.I'm not thinking anything, I'm asking you a question, and the question still stands.
Just make it 2 or 3 copies, don't tie it to the number of trade routes. This suggestion makes things more complicated for no real reason, its effectively very similar. I don't see a reason you should get more copies for later great admirals than early ones.Voyage of Discovery (v2): The Great Admiral can be expended in exchange for a copy of a Luxury not available on the current map, plus an extra copy for every 3 active
wobuffet
Barbarian
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You're probably right, more complicated than it needs to be. My thinking was just that in general, everything later in VP is more powerful than earlier things. Lategame units, WC/UN proposals, etc. are all big deals because they have to be huge to have any chance of swinging things at all. Unique Units that get researched later in the game are more powerful than ones that can be made earlier. Etc. Plus I liked the historical flavor of tying Great Generals (e.g., Commodore Perry) to trade.
If you mean "Why is that number tied to the exact moment when you expend the GAdm?", I think I agree. I'll edit that.
HalfEmptyMug
Chieftain
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The scaling bonuses would be a bit too powerful, probably require some AI teaching, and would probably lead to the GG becoming a bit inadequate.
I really like this Idea. The improvement can essentially be the GA's citadel, where they can be given a spot in the Regimental Tradition policy and help buff water tiles, becoming a powerful late game improvement. The adjacency bonus can also be given to the Citadel to make them a more appealing workable improvement earlier on and appease those with dozens of generals lying around.
I tinkered around the idea of the Great Admiral's Outpost Improvement idea and theorycrafted based on existing concepts.
- +2 Food and +2 Gold
- +50% Defense Modifier(Haven't tested out naval units reacting to defense modifiers.)
- Unlike all other GPP improvements, this cannot be built over luxury or bonus resources (?)
- Essentially, it's permanent since you can't replace this with other fishing boats and offshore platforms.
- Doesn't imply that it can't be pillaged, it can be pillaged and repaired with a fishing boat.
- Can be built over luxury and bonus resources granting more bonuses than regular fishing boats (?)
- Probably earn bonuses if a cargo ship passes through it(Might have to test it out if cargo ships take into consideration of passing through outposts and if the database table even works for cargo ships rather than strictly to caravans)
- Grants vision within 4 tile distance of itself(great for artillery and aircrafts!)
- Provides +1 Food to all nearby water tiles.
- Navigation, Ecology, and Satellites grants +2 Gold.
- Dynamite grants +1 Food.
- Tradition Finisher grants +1 Food as inherited.
- Knowledge Through Devotion will grant +3 Culture and +1 Faith as inherited.
- National Treasure grants +2 Culture as inherited.
- Murano's Glassworks still grants +2 Food and +2 Tourism as inherited.
- Regimental Tradition provides +3 Science and +1 Culture as inherited. (?)
- Military-Industrial Complex should provide +3 Science as inherited. (?)
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