carl corey
Deity
After a couple of computer crashes I managed to finish round 2. Not very eventful, but then again, we're still in the early phases. Will post the update soon.
Great Generals - test game 1: Charismatic
- Thread starter carl corey
- Start date
futurehermit
Deity
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Hope you built 1 NW of the corn if you went that direction. I would've suggested building the horse site with 1 warrior (they suck) and then scout the copper/ivory/corn/dye site with chariots. Claim that as 3rd city. Attack Shaka with axes in round one while beelining construction. Finish him off in round two with elephants and catapults.
I really can't think of a better approach to the opening of this game than that.
I really can't think of a better approach to the opening of this game than that.
carl corey
Deity
Nope, went for horses, then elephant & borrowed cows site. I think I could have gone for the copper, but the logistics just killed my joy. I just finished uploading the screenshots to photobucket and I'm starting to write down the report. A little patience and you'll see how it all turned out. 
futurehermit
Deity
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Will work I guess, but I think the including copper site was better.
Looking forward to the update.
Looking forward to the update.
carl corey
Deity
Round 2: 2680BC - 1200BC
Early in this round we found the missing AI. Or rather he found us. It's happy Buddhist Huayna. We also found something else, namely copper. Our settler was completed on the same turn, but I decided not to go for the site. It would be really far from the capital, needing protected roads, killing us with the maintenance, etc.
So Southern Horse it is. I escorted the Settler and the Worker (who just finished pasturing the cows) to 1NW of the horses. On the next turn York was founded and the worker started bringing in the horses right away.
In the meantime London was building a Workboat for York's use, and York started on a Worker of its own. Once the horses were linked the two workers would connect York and London by road.
Soon something that would affect later plans happened:
Genghis Khan converted to Hinduism. I expected Shaka to follow suit soon and for things to become really messed up, but as you'll see aggressiveness has its uses. I then timed things so that the Workboat would finish on the same turn with London reaching size 3, then started on another Settler. I decided now to go for 2N1E from the capital's cows, using them to quickly build a Library and get the Ivory within our borders. This city would also neatly block the world's two "hemispheres", but that won't probably help us as much as I thought at first.
And thus a couple of turns later Nottingham was founded and started on a Library right away.
York built some Chariots as I didn't want our game to end before it began. London was preparing for its glorious future by adding a Granary and a Library. Since I won't be building too many units until cats/War Elephants I'll probably use the two Scientists provided by the Library for most of the time.
And then something happened that left me really puzzled. Shaka moved an Archer and a Settler toward the copper site. I was sure he'd found a city there, but that wouldn't have been very puzzling, would it?
He either changed plans or got eaten by some barbs, but the thing is he never founded that city.
On the other hand, he converted to Hinduism too. Now we have 3 AIs with it: Hannibal (the founder), Genghis Khan and Shaka. And no one closing in from the West... I just hoped those elephants would do the job, as we were facing multiple possible backstabbers...
I ended the round in 1200BC. Nottingham finished the Library and is going to claim the ivory in 5 turns. We have a worker there building a mine who will connect the ivory next. It's not going to be a great tile to work though until we have Iron Working and clear that jungle. The gems are going to wait for that too.
London finished both the Granary and the Library. I'll probably dump the overflow into a Settler, then build a turn of a Chariot to get it to size three, then continue with the Settler for a city claiming gold. Speaking of which, any idea where it should go? There are a couple of barbarian cities around there, so we might have to put it into a less than optimal location. I'm really wondering if we can skip it altogether and just wait to claim other cities through war.
York is going to get a shiny new Granary too, probably a Library also. I'm not very fond of building Chariots like crazy, so I'd rather get to Construction early and then start on the real thing.
And our target seems to be Hannibal after all. After Shaka's inexplicable feint at copper city Hannibal decided to take it for himself. Fortunately Shaka can be bribed to go to war with him, once I get Alphabet of course. Hence the earlier comment about aggressiveness being useful. He doesn't really know his friends, does he? I'm hoping to get the Khan in the same position, that's why I think I'll open the borders for both of them. It's not like they're going to build any cities that far from their capitals anyway.
By the way, if you're wondering why I didn't explore more, it's because those lousy warriors aren't much use when exploring. I'll wait for a few Chariots, maybe that will earn them a couple of promotions and I can get one to be a medic. With the two western barbarian cities I'll surely see lots of action soon enough.
Research-wise we got Hunting in the bag and we're going for Math -> Masonry -> Construction. I'll probably pre-chop a few forests to prepare them for Elephant spawning. With Math in we'll get the full value for those forests. I'm also thinking of keeping a couple of them in the capital to get the Great Library later on. We might fail though (getting Math & Construction first may prove too much), but at least we'll unlock Heroic Epic and National Epic. Notice that I skipped Mysticism completely, but we'll need it and Polytheism for Literature. No Monuments though, so we don't have to worry about Calendar obsoleting them.
So, decisions to make for the next round:
- where to put gold city?
- what to research? I'm thinking Alphabet after Construction.
- should we go for Great Library?
- who to attack? I see Hannibal as the prime target, but if anyone disagrees I'll reconsider.
Early in this round we found the missing AI. Or rather he found us. It's happy Buddhist Huayna. We also found something else, namely copper. Our settler was completed on the same turn, but I decided not to go for the site. It would be really far from the capital, needing protected roads, killing us with the maintenance, etc.
So Southern Horse it is. I escorted the Settler and the Worker (who just finished pasturing the cows) to 1NW of the horses. On the next turn York was founded and the worker started bringing in the horses right away.
In the meantime London was building a Workboat for York's use, and York started on a Worker of its own. Once the horses were linked the two workers would connect York and London by road.
Soon something that would affect later plans happened:
Genghis Khan converted to Hinduism. I expected Shaka to follow suit soon and for things to become really messed up, but as you'll see aggressiveness has its uses. I then timed things so that the Workboat would finish on the same turn with London reaching size 3, then started on another Settler. I decided now to go for 2N1E from the capital's cows, using them to quickly build a Library and get the Ivory within our borders. This city would also neatly block the world's two "hemispheres", but that won't probably help us as much as I thought at first.
And thus a couple of turns later Nottingham was founded and started on a Library right away.
York built some Chariots as I didn't want our game to end before it began. London was preparing for its glorious future by adding a Granary and a Library. Since I won't be building too many units until cats/War Elephants I'll probably use the two Scientists provided by the Library for most of the time.
And then something happened that left me really puzzled. Shaka moved an Archer and a Settler toward the copper site. I was sure he'd found a city there, but that wouldn't have been very puzzling, would it?
He either changed plans or got eaten by some barbs, but the thing is he never founded that city.
On the other hand, he converted to Hinduism too. Now we have 3 AIs with it: Hannibal (the founder), Genghis Khan and Shaka. And no one closing in from the West... I just hoped those elephants would do the job, as we were facing multiple possible backstabbers...
I ended the round in 1200BC. Nottingham finished the Library and is going to claim the ivory in 5 turns. We have a worker there building a mine who will connect the ivory next. It's not going to be a great tile to work though until we have Iron Working and clear that jungle. The gems are going to wait for that too.
London finished both the Granary and the Library. I'll probably dump the overflow into a Settler, then build a turn of a Chariot to get it to size three, then continue with the Settler for a city claiming gold. Speaking of which, any idea where it should go? There are a couple of barbarian cities around there, so we might have to put it into a less than optimal location. I'm really wondering if we can skip it altogether and just wait to claim other cities through war.
York is going to get a shiny new Granary too, probably a Library also. I'm not very fond of building Chariots like crazy, so I'd rather get to Construction early and then start on the real thing.
And our target seems to be Hannibal after all. After Shaka's inexplicable feint at copper city Hannibal decided to take it for himself. Fortunately Shaka can be bribed to go to war with him, once I get Alphabet of course. Hence the earlier comment about aggressiveness being useful. He doesn't really know his friends, does he? I'm hoping to get the Khan in the same position, that's why I think I'll open the borders for both of them. It's not like they're going to build any cities that far from their capitals anyway.
By the way, if you're wondering why I didn't explore more, it's because those lousy warriors aren't much use when exploring. I'll wait for a few Chariots, maybe that will earn them a couple of promotions and I can get one to be a medic. With the two western barbarian cities I'll surely see lots of action soon enough.
Research-wise we got Hunting in the bag and we're going for Math -> Masonry -> Construction. I'll probably pre-chop a few forests to prepare them for Elephant spawning. With Math in we'll get the full value for those forests. I'm also thinking of keeping a couple of them in the capital to get the Great Library later on. We might fail though (getting Math & Construction first may prove too much), but at least we'll unlock Heroic Epic and National Epic. Notice that I skipped Mysticism completely, but we'll need it and Polytheism for Literature. No Monuments though, so we don't have to worry about Calendar obsoleting them.
So, decisions to make for the next round:
- where to put gold city?
- what to research? I'm thinking Alphabet after Construction.
- should we go for Great Library?
- who to attack? I see Hannibal as the prime target, but if anyone disagrees I'll reconsider.
johnny_rico
one more turn addict
CC,
Some world map screenshots would help. I think it is key to know who is off to your west. There is no pressure whatsoever from that side. Wonder if those barbarian cities are keepers. You don't the AI snagging them from you.
It's only 1200 BC so I don't know if I'd be in a rush for a fourth city, however, it would a have gold mine so it will pay for itself. But you'll need to work that sugar tile, which is jungle covered, in order to work the gold. I try to get my fourth city established around 400 BC.
If you do any warring in the east, you're going to need to bring some culture with you, otherwise borders will get ugly (especially with Hatty around). You could consider making a run at drama and music. If you were to capture a couple of nice cities to the east and then raze some of it's neigborhing cities, followed by a culture bomb, you'd secure yourself a nice piece of real estate to work with. Tensions will be high will four civs so close to one another.
To answer your end-post questions:
I think earlier I stated 1W of the gold looked like a good city spot.
I would concur with researching alphabet
The Great Library is always a good idea
Hannibal makes the most sense. Perhaps raze those two cities east of nottingham and buld a city 1E of the corn?
Some world map screenshots would help. I think it is key to know who is off to your west. There is no pressure whatsoever from that side. Wonder if those barbarian cities are keepers. You don't the AI snagging them from you.
It's only 1200 BC so I don't know if I'd be in a rush for a fourth city, however, it would a have gold mine so it will pay for itself. But you'll need to work that sugar tile, which is jungle covered, in order to work the gold. I try to get my fourth city established around 400 BC.
If you do any warring in the east, you're going to need to bring some culture with you, otherwise borders will get ugly (especially with Hatty around). You could consider making a run at drama and music. If you were to capture a couple of nice cities to the east and then raze some of it's neigborhing cities, followed by a culture bomb, you'd secure yourself a nice piece of real estate to work with. Tensions will be high will four civs so close to one another.
To answer your end-post questions:
I think earlier I stated 1W of the gold looked like a good city spot.
I would concur with researching alphabet
The Great Library is always a good idea
Hannibal makes the most sense. Perhaps raze those two cities east of nottingham and buld a city 1E of the corn?
futurehermit
Deity
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1 NW, 1 W of the gold will net you two food tiles although it will require razing the barb city.
I'm always a fan of surplus food in cities. Without it, they just don't grow very well.
Great library = good.
The thing about Hannibal's city is that I could imagine Hatty culture-flipping it at some point...
I would wait to see where Shaka builds. I'd still rather attack him rather than let him get powerful and then he dogpiles on you after you declare on Hannibal. That would not be fun. Yes, if you can bribe him in, that's good, but you won't be joining the hindu contingent, I imagine you would join the buddhist contingent. And Shaka is Hindu so that might make keeping a collar on him difficult...
I'm always a fan of surplus food in cities. Without it, they just don't grow very well.
Great library = good.
The thing about Hannibal's city is that I could imagine Hatty culture-flipping it at some point...
I would wait to see where Shaka builds. I'd still rather attack him rather than let him get powerful and then he dogpiles on you after you declare on Hannibal. That would not be fun. Yes, if you can bribe him in, that's good, but you won't be joining the hindu contingent, I imagine you would join the buddhist contingent. And Shaka is Hindu so that might make keeping a collar on him difficult...
carl corey
Deity
Here are a couple of world screenshots, one detailing resources, the other one with the cultural layer.
As you can see there's no one closing in from the West now, but Ragnar and Huayna are surely there. Genghis becoming Hindu and his initial scouting direction means he's near Shaka and Hannibal. That puts 4 AIs to the west, 2 to the east.
By the way, I'll explore more with my next chariots. I've decided that York doesn't need a library - crappy city as it is - and will go on and whip Chariots for exploring after the Granary is done. I'll get back to developing it later.
As for Gold city, I'd really like the 1N2W location, but going with Chariots against fortified Archers to raze the barbarian city isn't a very good bet. Even with Combat I a Chariot will have 4.4 strength, while the Archer will pile up its natural defense and fortification bonus to amount to more than 5 strength. I'll need quite a few chariots to pull it off. On the other hand I don't have much else to build... I think of switching to Barracks -> Chariots in London too and build the settler only later. I hope 6 chariots will do the job - I'm expecting something like two base archers plus one possibly popping up just when I get there (optimist, I know
) so a 2:1 ratio should take the city.
Hannibal's Copper city will be razed and replaced with mine 1E (or 1N?) of the corn. And since his southern city will lose the corn it won't be of much use either. I'll have to go for what I hope is the capital next to take a good spot, than backfill with a city or two.
Also, on the diplomatic front there's something else I forgot to check before: Hatty won't go to war with anyone yet, but the reasons for each are different. She says she doesn't like me enough to go to war with Hannibal. I'm thinking of opening borders to her and at the appropriate moment bringing her in the mix too. She's unlikely to beat me to the two closest cities anyway (but I'll have to have a settler ready to rebuild) and this will earn me some more + points with her. Maybe she'll be my ally against the likes of Shaka and Genghis. I'll have to think if I'm bringing Shaka in, as he's close to Hannibal's other cities. I don't want him taking the capital. Unfortunately the only other option is for him to go against Hatty (don't like it) or against Huayna, with which I plan to trade a lot, seeing the distance to him.
So: open borders with Huayna, Ragnar, Hatty, maybe even Shaka for now. How does that sound?
As you can see there's no one closing in from the West now, but Ragnar and Huayna are surely there. Genghis becoming Hindu and his initial scouting direction means he's near Shaka and Hannibal. That puts 4 AIs to the west, 2 to the east.
By the way, I'll explore more with my next chariots. I've decided that York doesn't need a library - crappy city as it is - and will go on and whip Chariots for exploring after the Granary is done. I'll get back to developing it later.
As for Gold city, I'd really like the 1N2W location, but going with Chariots against fortified Archers to raze the barbarian city isn't a very good bet. Even with Combat I a Chariot will have 4.4 strength, while the Archer will pile up its natural defense and fortification bonus to amount to more than 5 strength. I'll need quite a few chariots to pull it off. On the other hand I don't have much else to build... I think of switching to Barracks -> Chariots in London too and build the settler only later. I hope 6 chariots will do the job - I'm expecting something like two base archers plus one possibly popping up just when I get there (optimist, I know
) so a 2:1 ratio should take the city.Hannibal's Copper city will be razed and replaced with mine 1E (or 1N?) of the corn. And since his southern city will lose the corn it won't be of much use either. I'll have to go for what I hope is the capital next to take a good spot, than backfill with a city or two.
Also, on the diplomatic front there's something else I forgot to check before: Hatty won't go to war with anyone yet, but the reasons for each are different. She says she doesn't like me enough to go to war with Hannibal. I'm thinking of opening borders to her and at the appropriate moment bringing her in the mix too. She's unlikely to beat me to the two closest cities anyway (but I'll have to have a settler ready to rebuild) and this will earn me some more + points with her. Maybe she'll be my ally against the likes of Shaka and Genghis. I'll have to think if I'm bringing Shaka in, as he's close to Hannibal's other cities. I don't want him taking the capital. Unfortunately the only other option is for him to go against Hatty (don't like it) or against Huayna, with which I plan to trade a lot, seeing the distance to him.
So: open borders with Huayna, Ragnar, Hatty, maybe even Shaka for now. How does that sound?
dragomaster
Warlord
Well this will be interesting, the starting citys will bring you military but not mutch money nor food. Hanibals citys is realy whacky, I don't think he will be any problem taking out with WE.
I'm thinking in the past now, maybe i'm mr stupid but wasn't 1 NW of the corn the ultimate position for York?
you could have brought a worker to pre-shoop the grasland/forest/hill 1 SW during reserch mystesism. and when mystesim where finnished chop it to gain a monument. you shod have had seven jungles and two forest left in York. that whod have brougt you 1.75 unhealth from jungle - 1 health from forests = 0,75 unhealth for that city. At that moment you whod have crab, rice, cow and corn witch is 4 health = 3,25 health + 2H on monarch = 5,25H in York before IW.
that whod have made a late CC and early PC. chopper grasland 2F 3P, two mined grasland hills 1F 3P * 2. City 2F 1P 1C, corn not irigated 5F and ivory in jungle with camp 1F 2P.
this gives production 12 and food 12 when stagnated at sice 5.
york whod then get axes (35P) out in 2,91 turns. werry good for a early city and not to far away from London ether.
I'm thinking in the past now, maybe i'm mr stupid but wasn't 1 NW of the corn the ultimate position for York?
you could have brought a worker to pre-shoop the grasland/forest/hill 1 SW during reserch mystesism. and when mystesim where finnished chop it to gain a monument. you shod have had seven jungles and two forest left in York. that whod have brougt you 1.75 unhealth from jungle - 1 health from forests = 0,75 unhealth for that city. At that moment you whod have crab, rice, cow and corn witch is 4 health = 3,25 health + 2H on monarch = 5,25H in York before IW.
that whod have made a late CC and early PC. chopper grasland 2F 3P, two mined grasland hills 1F 3P * 2. City 2F 1P 1C, corn not irigated 5F and ivory in jungle with camp 1F 2P.
this gives production 12 and food 12 when stagnated at sice 5.
york whod then get axes (35P) out in 2,91 turns. werry good for a early city and not to far away from London ether.
carl corey
Deity
dragomaster, you're right about that copper city. That's what futurehermit suggested too (see his first post on this page) but I chickened out. I told myself I'd go for War Elephants as fast as I can and forget about the copper for now. Feel free to play the game from the initial save and go that route if you want. Heck, I might do it myself after I finish this!
I'm not very concerned about money. I'll use scientists for research for now, and if necessary I'll built parts of the Great Wall and the Pyramids (I need Masonry for Construction) to get more money to support the early war. Capturing a couple of cities after that will help too. And once I get Ironworking and Monarchy I'll have the Gems and the two Wines online, that will bring some commerce in. Nottingham will probably get some cottages too, though I'm not sure. I might go for a full Specialist Economy, I haven't decided that yet. That will go well with my policy of "always war" because it will keep me on the offensive just to get enough gold to support myself.
I told myself I'd go for War Elephants as fast as I can and forget about the copper for now. Feel free to play the game from the initial save and go that route if you want. Heck, I might do it myself after I finish this! I'm not very concerned about money. I'll use scientists for research for now, and if necessary I'll built parts of the Great Wall and the Pyramids (I need Masonry for Construction) to get more money to support the early war. Capturing a couple of cities after that will help too. And once I get Ironworking and Monarchy I'll have the Gems and the two Wines online, that will bring some commerce in. Nottingham will probably get some cottages too, though I'm not sure. I might go for a full Specialist Economy, I haven't decided that yet. That will go well with my policy of "always war" because it will keep me on the offensive just to get enough gold to support myself.
dragomaster
Warlord
I like your plan.
Hanibal, you will be the first to feel our war elephants. You masterd to come to rome but never attacked it, our war elephants will capure your citys so take this to acount, maybe you'l learn something.
and bring a settler and settle on the spot i talked about, after rasing bouth citys of hannibal.
Edit* a gold city is an objective aswell, try to grab it before its to late.
i dont think the barbs will be any trouble if you bring a WC, farm one sugar after IW and one plantage after callendar
Edit 2* after looking more closly this city is awsome, one faremd suggar gives you 5F meaning this city is anouther greate CC. jungle starts is greate realy. hard att the beginning but awsome later.
Hanibal, you will be the first to feel our war elephants. You masterd to come to rome but never attacked it, our war elephants will capure your citys so take this to acount, maybe you'l learn something.
and bring a settler and settle on the spot i talked about, after rasing bouth citys of hannibal.
Edit* a gold city is an objective aswell, try to grab it before its to late.
i dont think the barbs will be any trouble if you bring a WC, farm one sugar after IW and one plantage after callendar
Edit 2* after looking more closly this city is awsome, one faremd suggar gives you 5F meaning this city is anouther greate CC. jungle starts is greate realy. hard att the beginning but awsome later.
carl corey
Deity
Hehe, we're gonna feed Hannibal his own medicine, eh?
By the way, if you've followed the discussion you'll see it has been suggested to build copper city 1E of the corn (I also talked about 1N). The ivory's already in Nottingham's range, and I'm not sure it would be very useful to share those tiles between the two cities. What do you think?
I'm a bit worried about tech trades though. the AI is notorious for going for Maths, so that's out of the question. Maybe Construction to Hatty, Huayna and Ragnar since they won't be our enemies anytime soon? Literature too once we get the Great Library. We'll see...
futurehermit
Deity
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Take gold city after ironworking comes on board. You won't be able to develop it until then anyways. Beeline construction and you can raze the barb city with elephants instead of chariots
I guess Hannibal has to be first, which sucks!!! But, hopefully we can do it fast enough that we can jump on Shaka before he gets too strong...Maybe you can bribe him as suggested against Hannibal and then backstab him while he's still engaged with Hannibal
I guess Hannibal has to be first, which sucks!!! But, hopefully we can do it fast enough that we can jump on Shaka before he gets too strong...Maybe you can bribe him as suggested against Hannibal and then backstab him while he's still engaged with Hannibal
carl corey
Deity
Roger that. Construction -> Hannibal -> Gold city it is. Gold city will go on the spot that gets the two sugars too since everybody agrees on that, and we'll get it with some War Elephants.
dragomaster
Warlord
Now Hannibal have acces to numidians, but nothing good realy cous WE crush them, a little worry about pikes to. Try to explore his lands to see if he have more chopper. those is the moste danguros answer against WE realy. and Impis is not good to war against so try to explore. strength 4 + 100% ws mounted = 8 strength. try to be friend with Zulu for awhile.
futurehermit
Deity
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spears don't do that great vs. elephants (although they are cost effective). pikes don't come for awhile. hopefully that's hannibal's only source of metal
anyways, assuming we hit him hard and fast he'll be crushed. nothing stands up to elephants and catas early on. collateral dmgd spears die to elephants just like everything else does
it's possible that we could keep that barb city depending on what further scouting reveals...
anyways, assuming we hit him hard and fast he'll be crushed. nothing stands up to elephants and catas early on. collateral dmgd spears die to elephants just like everything else does
it's possible that we could keep that barb city depending on what further scouting reveals...
johnny_rico
one more turn addict
So there's a third barb city N and/or W of you. I noticed the third city in dragonmasters post with the BFC for the 'gold' city. I'd get a chariot scout on each of those barb cities. It would be unfortunate if the AI came along and captured the city when your planning on razing it.
There is little cultural pressure over there. I don't know if it is because of the jungle or not. I've noticed the AI doesn't usually care and will gladly plop down a city in the jungle very early, probably before they have iron working.
There is little cultural pressure over there. I don't know if it is because of the jungle or not. I've noticed the AI doesn't usually care and will gladly plop down a city in the jungle very early, probably before they have iron working.
futurehermit
Deity
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OFFTOPIC:
Hey, CC, could you tell me how to get the pictures to display full-size like that? I'm using imageshack and can't seem to get them to display large
Thks!
Hey, CC, could you tell me how to get the pictures to display full-size like that? I'm using imageshack and can't seem to get them to display large
Thks!
carl corey
Deity
I've finished the round but it's been quite a long one, so I'll post the update tomorrow. It gets depressing to be in contact with everybody and constantly be last in score. But we got our war... and some things changed. In around 12 hours you'll see what. Stay tuned.
futurehermit, I use photobucket.com for the pictures. You can create albums, sub-albums, etc, and store your images there, then they give you a direct IMG link for each image. You just copy it and paste it in here and it gets displayed full-size.
futurehermit, I use photobucket.com for the pictures. You can create albums, sub-albums, etc, and store your images there, then they give you a direct IMG link for each image. You just copy it and paste it in here and it gets displayed full-size.
futurehermit
Deity
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Ok, I'll check out photobucket, thanks!
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