Great Scientist - Settle in one place or build lots of academies?

[Pangur Bán]

So I like to play the specialist economy, usually i use Peter, go for the Pyramids, Parthenon, and Great Library, and get a tone of Great Scientists. Now I usually settle them all in my science city, doubling as a great person farm.

I'm not one for numbers, so I'd like to ask other players whether it is better to build lots of academies in different cities or else keep doing what I'm doing and settle most of them in the great science city (of course I lightbulb too, but I'm not asking about that here). I know it makes no sense to build academies in small poor cities rather than settle in the super science city, but for big cities are the mathematics better this way?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Genv [FP]]

Settle all in one place, build academy and oxford

Or just build academies in your cottage farms

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Or bulb with them and trade, while pushing for a military edge to take an opponent.

 

[Levgre]

You only get +100% science with library, university, and academy, so with 9 from a great scientist that is only 18. Once you get Oxford in the capital it goes up to 27.

That means, if a city generates more than 36 base beakers before Oxford, and 54 base beakers after Oxford, it gives you more science than a great scientist in your science city.

Quite easy. So usually academies are best for raw science output.

If I make lots of scientists though, I prefer to use them to beeline philosophy and education. Bulbing philosophy gives you all those extra turns of double GP points, and bulbing education gives you the extra turns with universities (especially useful if you are philosophical, for double speed universities).

 

[Virtual Alex]

Insightful post, thank you Levgre

 

[Lord Chambers]

Use scientists 2 movement points to scout enemy land before and during war.

 

[Virtual Alex]

Now that is some good advice.

 

[Jerrymander]

Use scientists 2 movement points to scout enemy land before and during war.

Uh, no. Great Merchants are better. They have 2 movement points and can explore rival territory. Great Spies are the best though. Great Spies are, as far as I know, impossible to 'stumble' upon, and you can use them to scout out anyone's land no matter what.

 

[zeolite]

Bulbing philosophy gives you all those extra turns of double GP points

Discovering Philosophy increases you GP production?

 

[carl corey]

Nope, but running Pacifism (that you get with Philosophy) does.

 

[madscientist]

It reallt depends on which leader you have and the cottages in those cities.

For example, a financial leader (1 extra comemrce per cottage) with several cities on rivers (another commerce for each river commerce) would benefit from numerous academies. My Wang Kon RPC game I built about 6-7 academies which allowed me to win a space race without ever opening borders, thus not gettinbf forign trade routes.

Another example is if you have alot of coastal cities with ahrbors and trade routes, or you also have the Great Lighthouse. Those cities would benefit from academies as the trade route yield would produce alot of beakers with academies.

The above cases are extreme, and more likely settling in the Oxford city would produce more beaker returns. A careful evaluation of the city and long term view are the best things to do.

 

[cripp7]

Didn't CivCor run a test game like that? Every scientist built academies and he found it worked fairly well. Every city gets 50% research value, that's got to add up I think.

 

[Artichoker]

So I like to play the specialist economy, usually i use Peter, go for the Pyramids, Parthenon, and Great Library, and get a tone of Great Scientists. Now I usually settle them all in my science city, doubling as a great person farm.

The advantage of settling your GS is that its output doesn't depend on having a high science slider, unlike the Academy.

This is especially important when you're in a war, when the unit supply upkeep can increase your upkeep costs significantly, often requiring you to lower the science slider.

Bulbing is useful, particulary with Philosophy. It usually comes available at the same time other 1000 beaker techs become available, allowing you to trade for those techs. Also, with proper timing you can found Taoism by bulbing Philosophy.

 

[Tennyson]

So if you're running the slider high; academy. If you're running the slider low, settle.

 

[mboettcher]

a couple of academies then I burn them for techs. Also I burn them for GA and Techs early if the good techs are available.

I don't like GS as much as GM or GE or even GP but they can be useful in smaller quantities.

 

[JackOfClubs]

You only get +100% science with library, university, and academy, so with 9 from a great scientist that is only 18. Once you get Oxford in the capital it goes up to 27.

That means, if a city generates more than 36 base beakers before Oxford, and 54 base beakers after Oxford, it gives you more science than a great scientist in your science city.

Don't forget Observatories and Labs, which will add another 50% and bump the opportunity cost up to 63 with all 6 buildings in your Super Science City. Also, monasteries can add another 10% each, which may or not be relevant.

But even 36 base science can be difficult to achieve. That is the equivalent of 6 specialists under Representation or roughly the same number of full-grown towns at 100% slider and 12 at 50%. Not impossible, certainly, but not trivial either.


My policy is to make an academy with the first GS and bulb every additional one through the race to Liberalism. Between that point and Industrialism/Combustion they start becoming less interesting since they get stuck on Scientific Method which is useless until you get something that runs on Oil. I usually settle all of those GSs, maybe using one to bulb half of Sci Meth just to save time later. After that point, the game is usually pretty much over and I don't pay much attention to GSs, especially since they have become pretty scarce any way.

 

[Komunyst_Indian]

i have come across a dilemma in my uber science city.... build national epic or wait for oxford and wall street.. i decided to build oxford and nat epic... wall street went to my shrine/ corp hq city

what course of action could i have taken

 

[carl corey]

It depends what you mean by science city... If it's a commerce city, and you're able to run the science slider high, you're better off just building Oxford in it, National Epic in a food + specialists city, and Wall Street either in Shrine city (if you have one) or in food + merchants city. Incidentally, in the latter case you could pair NE and WS. Late in the game Great Merchants' missions give you more than Great Scientists' bulbings.

If your science city is a food+scientists city, then it's interesting to build Oxford and NE in it. You're probably running a specialist economy, in which case you could use one cottaged city to build Wall Street in it (again, if you don't have a Shrine city). You'll probably run the science slider pretty low and use the WS boosted gold to pay for your empire's expenses.

 

[Joshua368]

Typically I have a half dozen or so cottage spam cities scattered around, so I use them for lots of acadamies all around! My last game I made a total of six acadamies... plus one stolen from an enemy. Making over 4000 bpt at the endgame is fun.

From time to time though I do bulb them for key techs, expecially those that I want to get before any AIs. Education is an obvious one, sometimes I do Physics as blimps can really aid in war.

 

[PaulusIII]

It really depends on the type of situation you are in.

Settling: only when your current output is so low it can't be helped any other way, like if you've just crashed your economy with an early rush.

Academies: When running a CE with lots of commerce cities.

Bulbing is good for trade bait or for liberalism slingshots.


Late game: Don't settle, don't build academies, don't bulb. Golden Ages.