Great Wonders Elimination Thread

[hhhhhh]

I'd like to talk more about ancient era wonder today and some early game meta. Many ancient era wonder should be built in mid-classical era (for example Oracle - if you build it early but don't have many districts then it's useless).

In early game there is only one thing that's important - namely getting Political Philosophy as fast as possible. If Rapa Nui suzerainty is at hand I'd even harvest a wheat to get population, build a Moai triangle and lock population to work on it until they starve to death, all this just to accelerate the arrival of Political Philosophy. One should also plan city-settling around this goal - normally we start with 3 cities because the 4th city can hardly contribute to PP. But if it turns out the 3rd cannot contribute as much either, then starting with 2 cities is just fine.

Pyramids [29] (28+1) This is the real ancient era wonder - you can build really build it in the ancient era for a precious 4 era score and the reason one can afford to build Pyramids early is that not only it powers up your builders but it also gives 2 cultures (and two tiles, as all wonders do) - the 2 cultures can be ignored later on but in early game it's valuable. To chop it in ancient era you can go 3.5 * 54 * 1.15 + 3 = 220. (54 is the production from chopping when you are at 6 civics.)

Temple of Artemis [13] (16 - 3) I guess our observations are similar but conclusion are vastly different. But in Civ VI population is playing not that big of a role and early amenity doesn't do much (5% of 10 is only 0.5, FYI). Don't get me wrong ToA is a very decent wonder. And sometimes AI just leave it to you. It's something good to have if it is still there in classical era. Now if you really understand how important Political Philosophy is, then you won't have time for ToA that early. You can pick it up later if it's not gone in classical era. It will be much better if instead of 4 food it provides 3 food and 1 culture. Getting ToA in ancient era will certainly delay your Political Philosophy.

Big Ben [18]
Colosseum [8]
Forbidden City [27]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [26]
Potala Palace [8]
Pyramids [29]
Temple of Artemis [13]

 

[JJOne]

Big Ben [18]
Colosseum [8]
Forbidden City [27]
Kilwa Kisiwani [27] (26+1) It gets you potentially the highest yields.
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [26]
Potala Palace [8]
Pyramids [29]
Temple of Artemis [10] (13-3) I don't know about others, but I've had a lot of games where I couldn't build this, since camp resources aren't a given.

 

[Jewelrunna]

Big Ben [18]
Colosseum [9]
Forbidden City [27]
Kilwa Kisiwani [27]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [26]
Potala Palace [8]
Pyramids [28]
Temple of Artemis [7]

Colosseum [9] (8 + 1): If by this point you don't understand that Colosseum is a top five wonder in the game, I'm really not quite sure what to say. It's insane. It's in the same tier of wonders that currently are sitting at +20. It increases your culture by 20-30%, will put all your cities in ecstatic (or at least happy) for the rest of the game, and its opportunity cost is way, way lower than what people make it out to be. If you prioritize Colosseum (which you should, because it's just so dang good), you'll more than likely get Colosseum.

Temple of Artemis [7] (10 - 3): Now, I'm not usually one for being petty over downvotes in this thread, but for once, I'm being sort of petty. That said, I'm also not really being petty, since I firmly believe that the Colosseum is a better wonder than Temple of Artemis. I've seen people downvote Colosseum for absurd reasons, while ToA gets a pass for what should be similar justifications for downvoting. What I'll concede is that ToA turns one settlement into a beast of a city in the early game, which can really set you up nicely for an amazing early game. However, would you rather have one city be really strong, or have all of your cities be notably better and have a massive influx of culture into the early game. That's the comparison your making with ToA and Colosseum. The best case scenario for ToA's amenity bonus is roughly the same as the Colosseum's worse-case scenario for amenities. Also, since we're all talking about opportunity costs for the Colosseum, we have to be fair and point out that the window in which you build ToA comes in the early game, when you should be building units, builders, and settlers (maybe monuments and granaries mixed in a bit too). You have to derail a significant portion of the early game to building this wonder, which is the most vital point in the game. I've seen way more instances of people missing out on ToA compared to the Colosseum. It's not totally fair to compare Colosseum and ToA, because one is setting up for a tall game, the other for a wide one, but here Colosseum outshines ToA too; playing wide is simply better in Civ VI than tall. Any day of the week, I'll take Colosseum over ToA. It accelerates your Civic progression and gives you more amenities in a way that ToA's growth & housing bonus can't really compare, and despite having more hoops to jump through to build it, Colosseum is still more practical to build because of its more forgiving timing window. Now I'll concede that the next wonder to go should be Potala Palace, but I'm dedicating this vote to rectifying what I feel is an injustice done to a top five wonder, and bringing ToA down a peg.

 

[pjotroos]

Edit: Adjusted the score for Temple of Artemis for what it should be after Jewelrunna's vote

Won't downvote Colosseum as I've already done it twice in my last four posts, but I believe it should be the next one to go. All of the wonders below are great if you get them - solid benefits at the time they become available - but Colosseum is more devastating than the rest if you just miss it.

Big Ben [15] (18-3) Downvoting purely due to the slightly awkward requirements. Whichever victory condition I'm going for, I find myself leaving Economics until later, and rarely building any Banks. Also, to get full benefits of this one, you should be holding off spending any gold in the lead up to the completion. If you plan for it properly, the results are brilliant, but that's true for everything remaining on the list.
Colosseum [9]
Forbidden City [27]
Kilwa Kisiwani [27]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [26]
Potala Palace [8]
Pyramids [30] (29+1) Another vote for my favourite wonder. It can easily pay back for itself the moment its built, if you kept some builders lying around with a single charge.
Temple of Artemis [7]

 

[kaspergm]

Big Ben [15]
Colosseum [9]
Forbidden City [27]
Kilwa Kisiwani [24] (27-3) - I might be doing something wrong, but I often find I can't build this in my capital, and building it in a minor city requires the stars to align in terms of the correct city states being in the game and actually holding Suzerain of them. I recognize this is a top 10 wonder, not sure if I find it's top 5. Perhaps it's because I normally reduce number of city states on my maps.
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [27] (26+1) - this just seems universally useful to me no matter which victory type you pursue and is easy to get to boot.
Potala Palace [8]
Pyramids [30]
Temple of Artemis [7]

 

[Roblord]

Big Ben [15]
Colosseum [9]
Forbidden City [27]
Kilwa Kisiwani [24]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [27]
Potala Palace [5]
Pyramids [31]
Temple of Artemis [7]

Downvote: Potala Palace (8-3=5). It's the weakest of the remaining wonders. Diplomatic cards really just aren't that essential. I often build it just for the Diplo points, but missing out on this wonder isn't really all that big a deal.

Upvote: Pyramids (30+1=31). If there's only one wonder that I would build every game if I could, this would be it. It has a powerful passive effect that requires no extra work on your part after building. The only downside is the desert requirement...which isn't even as strict as some of the other wonders left.

 

[xaiviax]

Big Ben [15]
Colosseum [9]
Forbidden City [27]
Kilwa Kisiwani [24]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [27]
Potala Palace [2] (5-3) Deserves a high ranking, which it has. Just not as powerful as what is left.
Pyramids [32] (31+1) When you take into account the increased builder cost formula vs builder charges, not only do you get more charges per builder, they continually cost even less than if you didn't have this wonder.
Temple of Artemis [7]

 

[Archon_Wing]

Upvote: Colosseum 10 (9+1). Flexible requirements and the culture is strong. Certainly more useful than a larger city. Works on almost any terrain, except a bunch of small islands but that will probably still be more effective than...

Downvote: Temple of Artemis. 4 (7-3) Compared to the Colosseum it has stricter placement requirements-- you don't always have a camp, and that's not a guarantee the city has the production to build it. It comes at a time when it is hard to chop, and I've seen it go as early as t40. Yes sometimes the AI doesn't build it, but you can say the same about a ton of wonders, and especially Colosseum. Sometimes they just don't care about wonders, either because they're @ war or are focusing on something else. But let's put it this way. If I can build Artemis in Classical, am I going to prioritize it over the Collosseum? No! I'll still try to get both, but losing the later hurts more.

Also you need maybe about 5-6+ resources for it to work, because otherwise you just chopped a really expensive neighborhood in the city. Oh and there's a bit of food but who cares about that? Yes, it's good for a niche pop 10 rush, and probably great as Russia too. But that's not enough to have it stay.

It is probably better than Potala, an underrated wonder of its own right, but I do not believe the distance should be that great and I'm sure someone will do the honors anyways..

Big Ben [15]
Colosseum [10]
Forbidden City [27]
Kilwa Kisiwani [24]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [27]
Potala Palace [2]
Pyramids [32] (31+1) When you take into account the increased builder cost formula vs builder charges, not only do you get more charges per builder, they continually cost even less than if you didn't have this wonder.
Temple of Artemis [4]

All, and all, I'm pretty satisfied so I don't really care too much about what wins, as the top 9 here coincide with my personal top 9 anyways. (RIP Oxford though, suppose that never had a chance) I admit, there was some tactical decisions to make here and there. So at this point I guess I have no need to hide my strategy.

I hid some columns as I don't care to argue over the methodology as it is arbitrary anyways. Yet. But in case anyone wants to know of my plans. But like I said, to me, they're all great wonders and which is better is a minor issue.

 

[lotrmith]

Down Artemis. Up Colosseum. I'll let the next user make the decision between Potala and Artemis. I think Colosseum should be ahead of Ben which should be below City. Yes, City will end up slotting an Economic Card, but it has easy placement and comes a bit earlier. Big Ben has relatively harder placement but also ties up your gold. You have to do a significant cost-benefit analysis turn by turn over when to complete Ben vs when to save your gold to increase the effect against the opportunity cost of not spending your gold now. Meanwhile, Colosseum comes at the right time post early expansion when you have several cities it can affect and freedom to let one build it. It's also not any more restrictive on placement than Artemis, even on different maps. You don't have much choice in your first 2 cities where they go and where Artemis goes, and you usually have to put Artemis in your capital and you cannot control where resources are (a watery map affects Artemis as much as it does Colosseum). On the other hand, your 3rd-8th cities more or less have lot more freedom for planning where they go and wherea Colosseum will go. Artemis also comes so early you have to generally go out and pursue it at the cost of settlers. Presuming you run the Settler card, you could churn out 2-3+ settlers for the cost of Artemis running the wonder card. Would I take Artemis later if it were still available? Of course. But to secure it, you need to pursue it early at the most significant opportunity cost of all the remaining wonders. To say nothing of what you might do with an early mega city and the hidden cost of researching further techs to plop down those extra districts and increase their cost while potentially losing their discounts in your expansion cities.

Yes. I'm repeating votes, but it's so late in the game there's little else to do.

Big Ben [15]
Colosseum [11]
Forbidden City [27]
Kilwa Kisiwani [24]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [27]
Potala Palace [2]
Pyramids [32]
Temple of Artemis [1]

 

[The Civs 6]

I'm going to let someone else kill TOA (because I personally like it) and Potala Palace (because it just doesn't line up with my playstyle so I'm not in a position to judge)

Big Ben [15] -3 = 12 Yes, Big Ben is one of my favorite wonders to build. If you could get that extra econ slot 50 turns earlier this would be a great wonder. But by the point you get it, it's not going to change much. The gold bump is probably the more impactful one, IE going from 20k gold to 30k gold, but is ultimately very situational. I'd take both PP and TOA over BB in part because of their timing and their place in the tech tree.
Colosseum [11]
Forbidden City [27] +1 = 28 I generally am opposed to prioritizing any wonders (other than KK in a game where the city state situation is good) and that holds true for Forbidden City as well. But with that said, it just comes at a very useful time in the game, when that extra wildcard slot is the most handy. There are some games (not many) where I don't feel the pressing need for extra builder charges and stuff, and where I just have to prioritize other things early game - or I don't have a desert tile around. In every game, I have some cities that can do stuff and are big enough to build a wonder, and I say to myself "I can really use a policy slot for X".
Kilwa Kisiwani [24]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [26]
Oracle [27]
Potala Palace [2]
Pyramids [32]
Temple of Artemis [1]

 

[enKage]

Big Ben [13]
Colosseum [11]
Forbidden City [28]
Kilwa Kisiwani [24]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Oracle [27]
Potala Palace [2]
Pyramids [32]
Temple of Artemis [1]

Upvote: BB
For me 1) Mids 2) BB 3) FC 4) PP 5) Kilwa and among these only BB needs some help now while Potala is lost.

Downvote: MoM
The same reasons for Petra downvote don't occur with MoM - why? Ocean lakes are always worse to work than most land so why to settle for a lot seatiles? With petra you would always work tiles it improves, with MoM - not necessairy, unless Auckland. I build it in most games, because the real thing is extra charge for Enginner, but it is useful for only wonder rushers - and i like to have it for A-SRS. MoM in fact stores hammers and allows you to pass it to another wonder later. It is nice and fun, clearly deserves top10, but I don't think top5. In my personal preference I like StBasil > MoM > Petra.

edit:
Corected score, not a nice format

Mids... I don't know - I suppose from Civ4 streams or sth....

 

[bbbt]

Oracle [28] 27 + 1 - Upvote for one of the easiest wonders to place and use - everyone has hills, there's no AoE to optimize, gold to save (for doubling), or suzerainships to hunt down. You do have to have districts - but hopefully you are building those anyways! Build it and get an immediate great person boost.

Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [20] 23- 20 I'm also going to downvote the Mausoleum, even though I love to build it (and am about to defend it vs the Petra comparison). I might be the only one who preferred it's previous incarnation with the double great admiral than the current one.

However vs Petra there's no comparison - Petra is mostly adding food and production (and gold), which benefits that particular city. Mausoleum adds culture and science (and faith) to the tiles, which has civilization enhancing abilities. With 10 pop working tiles: would you rather have a wonder that generates +20 food; +10 production or +10 culture and +10 science?

Having said that, it's going to take a while and decent amount of population before it's generating a lot of culture and science. And Great Engineers are one of the least useful great people, wonder building aside. Also, because of positioning, it often takes up a spot next to the city center where I'd prefer a district.

Big Ben [13]
Colosseum [11]
Forbidden City [28]
Kilwa Kisiwani [24]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [20]
Oracle [28]
Potala Palace [2]
Pyramids [32]
Temple of Artemis [1]

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Voting a bit earlier today as not going to be about most of the day.

why does PP make the top 10 but Alhambra is shrugged off several pages ago?

The answer is "because we screwed up Alhambra"

Temple of Artemis [Eliminated] 1-3 This comes so early, at a time when you should be expanding your Empire, that it's clearly the weakest of the strong bunch we have left.

Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21] 20+1 No idea why the Devs buffed this one with the yields, even with just the extra GE charges it was a top 5 wonder, don't agree that GEs are weak at all especially in a thread devoted to Wonder building!

Big Ben [13]
Colosseum [11]
Forbidden City [28]
Kilwa Kisiwani [24]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [20]
Oracle [28]
Potala Palace [2]
Pyramids [32]

 

[monikernemo]

Big Ben [13]
Colosseum [8] (11 - 3)
I think Colosseum is at a good place and should be the next few to go. Just don't like the requirement for entertainment complex and arena.
Forbidden City [28]
Kilwa Kisiwani [24]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
Oracle [28]
Potala Palace [3] (2 + 1)
Last upvote for Potala. Kinda repeating myself but in the late game diplomatic slots are comparable to economic slots. One additional slot could mean preventing a culture vic via rockbands, or spies stop wrecking your IZ or Spaceports, securing suz over vital CS etc.
Pyramids [32]

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Big Ben overall is a better Wonder than Forbidden City. At this point of the game, the only policies that are exclusively wildcard are great people card (which no one really uses) and legacy card (there is only 1 to be used at this point of the game from your tier 1 government). If Alhambra is out early and PP is about to be eliminated, it means 9 times out of 10 you will use an Economic card for that wildcard slot, so the illusion that you have much greater flexibility with an extra wildcard slot is not even that noticeable. And the FC is only 1 era earlier than Big Ben, yet Big Ben supplies more than what FC offers.

Big Ben [14]
Colosseum [8]
Forbidden City [25]
Kilwa Kisiwani [24]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
Oracle [28]
Potala Palace [3]
Pyramids [32]

 

[TCBB]

My personal number 1, Temple of Artemis, has now been eliminated. So I have no fear of taking aim at several wonders I feel have undeservedly outlasted ToA: Colosseum requires significant pre-investment and leaves you with a useless district, should you miss it; Big Ben arrives so late in the game it’s effect is often negligible, and is located on a dud tech (Economics) that I frequently ignore; Mausoleum’s Great Engineer charges are very good for science victory but only for science victory; and Potala Palace is late, expensive, and totally overkill.

All of these should have gone before ToA. But I’m actually going to downvote Kilwa Kisiwani. Cast your minds back to the last domination victory thread, if you can: multiple voters refused to allow Matthias Corvinus the 2nd place finish he deserved on the grounds that, supposedly, “relying on city-states is a very hit-and-miss strategy”. The exact point stands for Kilwa. If the stars align, it can be great; but equally, I’ve played plenty of games (particularly on cramped maps like Small Continents) where more than half the city-states get eaten up by aggressive AIs. In these situations, Kilwa is almost useless. And what if you spawn in the middle of the continent? Are you to go out your way to found & defend a city far away on the coast, purely to get Kilwa? There are too many variables to make KK consistently great.

As for an upvote, Oracle gets it because it’s the best of the survivors, in my view: universally helpful, great synchronisation with Pingala, and much easier to build than Pyramids (hills are everywhere but deserts are sometimes not).

Big Ben [14]
Colosseum [8]
Forbidden City [25]
Kilwa Kisiwani [21] (24-3)
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
Oracle [29] (28+1)
Potala Palace [3]
Pyramids [32]

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Edit: @TCBB , for the record on the Dom thread I never downvoted Hungary for being unreliable with CS. I was their champion throughout the thread and ultimately gave my single downvote at the very end on the basis of a slower start. I recognize the power of city states and that is reflected in my upvote for KK.

Big Ben [14]
Colosseum [8]
Forbidden City [25]
Kilwa Kisiwani [22] (21+1) This is my vote for top wonder of the game. I'll try for it every game, even over Pyramids. 1) It comes at Machinery, which is something I beeline every game (and I do mean every) so I'm always as early as possible to build it 2) It's not too competitive by the AI, although I've lost it before, but it is one of the more reasonably obtained wonders 3) you can't deny 30% yields in one city (15% in all others) is not enticing. Two Scientific CS and you got 30% science in one city (better than Oxford) and 15% in all other cities, but you also have two Cultural ones so you have 30% Culture (better than Broadway) and 15%... And what's this, you have two Industrial city states too now, so you get 30% production in your one city (better than Ruhr) and 15% across all...etc., etc. The only time I don't go for KK is when I do RV, because that's a whole different beast and strategy, but Dom, Diplo, Cultural, and Science games, I'm building this baby. I think where people dismiss it is because the description is pretty abstract and it's hard to see the total effect on your civ. When you build Pyramids you get +1 charge, and you always build workers every game, so it seems pretty straightforward and great, but this is the better Wonder and I'll die on this hill.
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
Oracle [29]
Potala Palace [3]
Pyramids [29] (32-3) Just trying to correct the score, because while it's a great wonder I'm adamant that it shouldn't run away with victory. No doubt +1 charge is great. Ultimately though, is it game-changing? You already have Liang for the extra charge, and you can spawn workers in her city to give the same benefit as Pyramids. And if you're China, you have this wonder from turn One, essentially. And then there's stuff like Serfdom which I run every game that grants +2 charges. If this was a game where every builder had 3 charges and the Pyramids gave a 4th (25% increase) and that was the only way to get them, I would rank it top, but that's not the case. If you can build a builder with 6 charges through Liang and Serfdom, is that 7th charge builder so game-breakingly better? Furthermore, it does require desert, and I would definitely prefer to settle away from desert to begin with, especially my second or third city. You're literally making a sacrifice in total city yields for your 2nd/3rd city by settling desert area for the opportunity cost of being able to build it. Finally, I just don't like early wonders period (unless you're China of course), because there's just way too much of an opportunity cost going on. That production is better spent on settlers, archers, campuses, holy sites (if going religion) etc. It's way too big of a risk to get At The Most 25% more efficient workers, but more like 15% when you get Liang, Serfdom, etc.

 

[CrabHelmet]

Big Ben [14]
Colosseum [5]
Forbidden City [25]
Kilwa Kisiwani [22]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
Oracle [29]
Potala Palace [4]
Pyramids [32]

I think a well-placed Colosseum probably beats the Potala Palace, but Renaissance and onwards Diplo policy cards are really good and mean that Potala Palace is doing a lot of work all the way to the end of the game, whereas Colosseum drops off as, say, 12 Culture becomes less impactful over time and you're not guaranteed that amount. Potala Palace is also very straightforward to go for - it's on a key tech you'll be heading for anyway, and the AI doesn't build it with any great speed. It's slightly more expensive than other Wonders of the era, but the Colosseum requires a whole Entertainment District and Arena.

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Potala Palace [1] (4-3) Sorry, I just can't agree: Potala has really outstayed its welcome now. (1.) It comes late, later than all candidates bar Big Ben. (2.) It is very expensive, much more so than any other Renaissance wonder. (3.) It grants a diplomatic card, which are nice to have but hardly game-changing. And (4.) it is found on Astronomy, which (with respect to previous voter) is not a key tech: if you're doing science victory, you're rushing Industrialization first; if you're doing religious victory, you're rushing Printing and then Cartography; if you're doing domination victory, you're on the bottom of the tech tree; and if you're doing culture victory, you probably haven't earned a great scientist so don't have the eureka for Education and, indeed, maybe not the eureka for Astronomy either.

Forbidden City [26] (25+1) The only mid-game wonder I might decide to rush in nearly all scenarios. Kilwa can be redundant if you don't have a strong city-state game; Big Ben is found on the pretty useless Economics tech; and I've expressed my opinions on Potala above. But Forbidden City is always useful, period. Bonus points for the fact that Printing is an important tech in multiple victory types (extra CS for domination, extra tourism for culture, and easy to get the eureka in science).

Big Ben [14]
Colosseum [5]
Forbidden City [26] (25+1)
Kilwa Kisiwani [22]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [21]
Oracle [29]
Potala Palace [1] (4-3)
Pyramids [32]

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Mausoleum at Halicarnassus +1: This wonder is crazy good. And I disagree with @TCBB above that GEs are only good for SVs. Yes, double charges on Sergei Korolev (+1500 production to space race projects) and Robert Goddard (+40% production to space race projects) are crazy OP for science games. But GEs are so good for other victories as well. In domination games, double charges on James Watt (+4 production to each factory in your empire, also instabuilding workshop/factory in 2 cities) is very good for bringing weakened conquered AI cities up to speed, and double charges on Alvar Aalto (+1 appeal to this city's tiles, usable twice) or Charles Correa (+2 appeal to this city's tiles, usable twice) is like a mini-Eiffel Tower for tourism purposes. Then there's the extra charges on wonder-building GEs, which help you insta-build later wonders. The Mausoleum is the wonder that just keeps giving, be it to secure even more wonders, power-charge your cities or boosting your win condition (and in the case of science games, singlehandedly being the most important wonder in the game)....... and that's before even counting the very strong tile yields that the devs for some reason thought were a good idea to add on top of all that. Lol.
Colosseum: -3 Nobody disputes that the effect is good, IF: 1. You get to settle a lot of close cities with a core city able to churn it out quickly. 2. It isn't sniped by the AI, who loves to build Entertainment Complexes. That's a lot of IFs though, which a top spot wonder shouldn't rely on. Last time I tried to get it, it was sniped and I was stuck with the very punitive early investment into EC + Arena, and in my last game I was unable to plant close cities because of mountains ranges and coastline. The most prohobitive aspect with Colosseum is that, among the remaining competitors, is perhaps the only wonder that actively sets you back if you fail to get it. While some claim that this wonder is "+12 culture and amenities", remember that it can also be viewed as "- X amount of science/culture", "- 1 trade route and X gold per turn" or even "-1 or 2 settlers" since those are the crucial things you're missing out on if you decide to invest so massively into this production sink. Not worth the risk imo unless you know for certain that you can get it, which you can never be assuming this is a shuffle map (where a couple early runaway AIs across the ocean are building it without you knowing). Risky on a small Pangea map, even more risky on other maps. 8th. or 7th. place is about as high that this wonder should land on, which by itself is very respectable.

Big Ben [14]
Colosseum [2]
Forbidden City [26]
Kilwa Kisiwani [22]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [22]
Oracle [29]
Potala Palace [1]
Pyramids [32]