Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
Who was the greatest Daimyo of the Sengoku Jidai?
(Havent made a poll in a while)
(Havent made a poll in a while)
Greatest Daimyo
- Thread starter Sarevok
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privatehudson
The Ultimate Badass
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Some information on them would be good 
We don't all know Japanese history inside out 
We don't all know Japanese history inside out 
Nobunaga, Hideyoshi and Tokugawa are actually more than daimyos; they're the successive shoguns, and controlled a good part of Japan by themselves.
Nobunaga started the ball running, by eventually holding a good part of central Japan. Was succeeded by Hideyoshi, a common soldier who had arisen rapidly thru the ranks. Tokugawa used to hold in central Japan, until under an exchange plan with Nobunaga (?), he got new territories further east, in the Kanto region (think Tokyo). Nobunaga wanted him further away fr him and Kyoto, the capital, but after Tokugawa began developing his new fiefs, immigrants poured in fr further west, leading to that region being Japan's most important today. Tokugawa seized power after Hideyoshi's death, by politically isolating and militarily defeating the successor (who was a child).
Don't know the rest...
Overall, I'll vote Tokugawa since he created the Tokugawa Shogunate and made it lasted for 300 or so years; until the 1860s. When we talk about the Japanese shogun, we usually meant the Tokugawa one.
Nobunaga started the ball running, by eventually holding a good part of central Japan. Was succeeded by Hideyoshi, a common soldier who had arisen rapidly thru the ranks. Tokugawa used to hold in central Japan, until under an exchange plan with Nobunaga (?), he got new territories further east, in the Kanto region (think Tokyo). Nobunaga wanted him further away fr him and Kyoto, the capital, but after Tokugawa began developing his new fiefs, immigrants poured in fr further west, leading to that region being Japan's most important today. Tokugawa seized power after Hideyoshi's death, by politically isolating and militarily defeating the successor (who was a child).
Don't know the rest...
Overall, I'll vote Tokugawa since he created the Tokugawa Shogunate and made it lasted for 300 or so years; until the 1860s. When we talk about the Japanese shogun, we usually meant the Tokugawa one.
Yoda Power
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I only know the first three. I'll vote Tukugawa because hes in civ
Since Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu are included, I would consider them. The funny thing is that Nobunaga and Hideyoshi Toyotomi weren't actually shoguns, but they were de facto shoguns. They never claimed the title because they had no relation to the Minamoto clan, who made the title hereditary and more powerful a few centuries earlier. I think Tokugawa didn't care about the blood relation and took the title anyway.
But Tokugawa did set up good controls for the Edo period, having daimyo spend every other year at Edo (Tokyo) which put distance between them and their lands and people.
On the other hand, Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin developed huge armies and fought each other very fiercely. There was a time when Takeda's castle was under siege from someone else and stopped the salt trade going in, but Uesugi broke through the siege and sent supplies to his enemy. He reasoned that the enemy should be defeated the honorable way and that was through an actual field battle. But the two daimyo never held much outside of central and northern Japan.
I'll think about it.
But Tokugawa did set up good controls for the Edo period, having daimyo spend every other year at Edo (Tokyo) which put distance between them and their lands and people.
On the other hand, Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin developed huge armies and fought each other very fiercely. There was a time when Takeda's castle was under siege from someone else and stopped the salt trade going in, but Uesugi broke through the siege and sent supplies to his enemy. He reasoned that the enemy should be defeated the honorable way and that was through an actual field battle. But the two daimyo never held much outside of central and northern Japan.
I'll think about it.
Syterion
Voodoo Economist
I chose Nobunaga because he was a military genius. Uniting Japan in the short time he did it in and the chaos it was in? He was an amazing general. I think he was the one who came up with the idea of firing muskets in rows, and making rounds where they move back to reload, and it was brilliant. Or was that a different Nobunaga?
There's only one Nobunaga, but many members of the Oda clan. I believe his son, or father, was Nobuhiro, something like that.
Anyway, firearms came into Japanese life around Nobunaga's time. They played a role at the battle of Sekigahara in 1600 which established Tokugawa's control.
Anyway, firearms came into Japanese life around Nobunaga's time. They played a role at the battle of Sekigahara in 1600 which established Tokugawa's control.
Archer 007
Rebirth
Tokugawa for pure level of influence.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
Originally posted by XIII
Nobunaga, Hideyoshi and Tokugawa are actually more than daimyos; they're the successive shoguns, and controlled a good part of Japan by themselves.
Nobunaga started the ball running, by eventually holding a good part of central Japan. Was succeeded by Hideyoshi, a common soldier who had arisen rapidly thru the ranks. Tokugawa used to hold in central Japan, until under an exchange plan with Nobunaga (?), he got new territories further east, in the Kanto region (think Tokyo). Nobunaga wanted him further away fr him and Kyoto, the capital, but after Tokugawa began developing his new fiefs, immigrants poured in fr further west, leading to that region being Japan's most important today. Tokugawa seized power after Hideyoshi's death, by politically isolating and militarily defeating the successor (who was a child).
Don't know the rest...
Overall, I'll vote Tokugawa since he created the Tokugawa Shogunate and made it lasted for 300 or so years; until the 1860s. When we talk about the Japanese shogun, we usually meant the Tokugawa one.
Thanks for putting that up XIII. Personally I didnt think many knew who these people were (as reflected by the vote in the poll of many choosing the option "Who are these guys???"). You seem to know stuff on this era which I find rare.
Ancient Grudge
Its all in this life
Takeda Shingen
Only cursorily. I already got the part about Nobunaga and Hideyoshi being officially shoguns wrong - they're the power behind the shogunate rather. Though I thought Hideyoshi did eventually take the office towards the end.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
He couldnt, he was an Ashigaru soldier without the noble background to take the title. Nobunaga could have but he was assasinated by his general Mitsuhide before he could completely unify japan. Naturally, Mitsuhide was killed 13 days after he killed Nobunaga by Hideyoshi as an act of revenge.
It was quite an interesting chapter. I have a map to finish for C3C, but ill be back and i can pull out some info on the others.
It was quite an interesting chapter. I have a map to finish for C3C, but ill be back and i can pull out some info on the others.
From what I know, for the rest of the people, they were daimyo whose influence was strong but never really carried over beyond their own lands. Call them a step abouve regular daimyo. The Takeda family were quite powerful in the mid 16th century, a couple decades before Oda Nobunaga took control. The Uesugi were challengers to the Takeda. They fought fierce battles between each other in central Japan.
I believe Imagawa was the predecessor to Tokugawa Ieyasu, Ieuyasu going off to form his own family line. I could be wrong.
The rest probably made their marks for contributions to the battle at Sekigahara to determine the future of Japan in 1600. If I remember right, Shimazu and Mori fought for the Western army while Date fought for the East, or Tokugawa's army from the Kanto.
Also, if I remember right, Shimazu had lands in Hyushu, Mori had land west of Kyoto on Honshu, and Date had land in northeastern Honshu. Someone could check me on facts and probably rip it to shreads, but that's okay.
I believe Imagawa was the predecessor to Tokugawa Ieyasu, Ieuyasu going off to form his own family line. I could be wrong.
The rest probably made their marks for contributions to the battle at Sekigahara to determine the future of Japan in 1600. If I remember right, Shimazu and Mori fought for the Western army while Date fought for the East, or Tokugawa's army from the Kanto.
Also, if I remember right, Shimazu had lands in Hyushu, Mori had land west of Kyoto on Honshu, and Date had land in northeastern Honshu. Someone could check me on facts and probably rip it to shreads, but that's okay.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
its true many of those up their earned their mark at Sekigahara. Ill give facts later as im a bit rushed right now
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