It's the same bonus that persia gets during GAs, so yes it is too powerful.
Greece
- Thread starter Funak
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It's the same bonus that persia gets during GAs, so yes it is too powerful.
Maybe limiting it to one unit-type would be better?
I find the current greece boring so to speaks,
their UU is not that great even with the great general promotion (Pictish warrior says hello at mining)
their UB is a slightly buffed amphitheatre ... meh
Finally their UA is quite war orientated; the whole doesn't fit to me.
I mean I know the city of athens wasn't afraid of war, but right now (as in today) we remember Their great philosoher, Their Hoplite, and their democracy system
I think this civ deserve to be reworked, how that I dunno; yes that's right im useless
their UU is not that great even with the great general promotion (Pictish warrior says hello at mining)
their UB is a slightly buffed amphitheatre ... meh
Finally their UA is quite war orientated; the whole doesn't fit to me.
I mean I know the city of athens wasn't afraid of war, but right now (as in today) we remember Their great philosoher, Their Hoplite, and their democracy system
I think this civ deserve to be reworked, how that I dunno; yes that's right im useless
Brought this up in another thread (and have not gotten around to it yet) but there are quite a few units that are underperforming, both non-pictish spearman replacements for example.
Their UB is actually really strong, it provides a bunch of small effects that add up and now even got a bonus walls effect in a recent update.
First of all, I really don't think their UA is quite war oriented, the main part of it is still the reduced city-state decay. And with recent changes to Patronage, that effect feels stronger than ever.
On the other hand the leader is Alexander, a guy who is pretty much just famous for warring like crazy and then dying young. A waroriented UA wouldn't exactly be a bad fit.
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I too find it boring, but I don't inherently think that it's bad. It just doesn't appeal to my tastes.
Well if we agree about the hoplite, then what if we changed the great general promotion to a Phalanx one , or maybe just give them Formation 1 and 2 to fake it ?
And i must be blind but i really don't see how +5 culture by unit killed and +1/5 culture by citizen is that great, But that just me being a dumbass
And i must be blind but i really don't see how +5 culture by unit killed and +1/5 culture by citizen is that great, But that just me being a dumbass
When I get around to it I'll create a balance-thread for some units. If you feel like it you can PM me others that you think aren't doing so well, this is technically the right place to discuss it, but there is no point just patching the hoplites up when there are plenty of other units doing just as bad.
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
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If someone would want the Greek UA to be very Alexander-like, he should automatically get a free UU of the enemy upon conquering and not razing their city if the opponent has discovered the prerequisite tech for it
If the technology is not researched or if the unit is already obsolete for the enemy, Alex gets a random unit at the enemy's technological level. After all he did like to convince nations he conquered/fought to join him and help him on his conquest.
It's also in a way a mirror of Rome's (which fits as Rome also loved taking inspiration from the conquered - and it very much from Greece too), which can reliably keep enemy Buildings making early warfare quite profitable assuming you fight the right opponents.
If the technology is not researched or if the unit is already obsolete for the enemy, Alex gets a random unit at the enemy's technological level. After all he did like to convince nations he conquered/fought to join him and help him on his conquest.
It's also in a way a mirror of Rome's (which fits as Rome also loved taking inspiration from the conquered - and it very much from Greece too), which can reliably keep enemy Buildings making early warfare quite profitable assuming you fight the right opponents.
Alex's UA is fine, guys, let's not reinvent that wheel. It works well with itself and is great for diplo-conquerors or pure-diplo players.
Adjusting the UU is fine, though.
G
Adjusting the UU is fine, though.
G
I agree with Gazebo Greece's UA is fine and excellent thematically. Alexander unified a once divided Hellenic state and put that strength to Persia.
His UU could have some changes.
As a general statement for all UU I much prefer power that can follow after upgrading the unit I.E. promotions rather then raw strength (though its obviously still a leaver to play with.) Promotions that follow allows you to play with a sense of identity and strategic preference which I think is excellent for game play.
The best example of this that comes to my mind is the flank bonus on The Huns. Flanking is strategically meaningful and a 2 step process. Which is fun to play with.
Two ideas come to mind in recreating the power of the Hoplite Phalanx in game
1. While adjacent to another spear unit (Strong vs. Mounted Promotion) Receive a Small defensive buff none stacking and take less damage from flank.
This idea is average as defensive buff aren't proactive, they have tactical implications but or mostly only felt by the attacker. The counter play here being eliminating one of the units with ranged fire. The second Idea I prefer though.
2. If the Hoplite Does not move before it attacks it gains a bonus on the attack.
This thematically is interesting, if they are able to form up into formation they are superior on the battlefield. If they don't they are not hugely impressive.
This is also tactically interesting as you can pin units similar to the tactically interesting Heavy charge. And opposing the hopolite you can withdraw your units so the Hopolites must march at you and drop their compact formation losing their advantage.
These sort of tactically relevant promotions are best in my opinion to improve the game. The Great Generals promotion or faith on kill are strategically relevant mechanics, which also enhance game flavor and these two things should be seen on more UUs in my opinion.
His UU could have some changes.
As a general statement for all UU I much prefer power that can follow after upgrading the unit I.E. promotions rather then raw strength (though its obviously still a leaver to play with.) Promotions that follow allows you to play with a sense of identity and strategic preference which I think is excellent for game play.
The best example of this that comes to my mind is the flank bonus on The Huns. Flanking is strategically meaningful and a 2 step process. Which is fun to play with.
Two ideas come to mind in recreating the power of the Hoplite Phalanx in game
1. While adjacent to another spear unit (Strong vs. Mounted Promotion) Receive a Small defensive buff none stacking and take less damage from flank.
This idea is average as defensive buff aren't proactive, they have tactical implications but or mostly only felt by the attacker. The counter play here being eliminating one of the units with ranged fire. The second Idea I prefer though.
2. If the Hoplite Does not move before it attacks it gains a bonus on the attack.
This thematically is interesting, if they are able to form up into formation they are superior on the battlefield. If they don't they are not hugely impressive.
This is also tactically interesting as you can pin units similar to the tactically interesting Heavy charge. And opposing the hopolite you can withdraw your units so the Hopolites must march at you and drop their compact formation losing their advantage.
These sort of tactically relevant promotions are best in my opinion to improve the game. The Great Generals promotion or faith on kill are strategically relevant mechanics, which also enhance game flavor and these two things should be seen on more UUs in my opinion.
kiwimaster
Chieftain
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- Sep 24, 2010
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- 65
Also want to chip in about how the hoplite needs to made stronger or more fun somehow, especially since taking cities early on seems to be harder than ever before. Right now, it just seems to pale in comparison to the Immortals, which seem a lot more useful with their 25% defense buff and double healing.
When I think of hoplites, I think of heavily armoured infantry almost unbeatable from the front. So maybe they should get extra % protection from ranged attacks, or get an attack % buff when no enemies are flanking, meaning they can get a significant edge when fighting 1vs1 against a unit of similar CS. Hell, I even wouldn't mind some extra culture per kill, considering hoplites are becoming outdated by the time your cities build acropolis.
When I think of hoplites, I think of heavily armoured infantry almost unbeatable from the front. So maybe they should get extra % protection from ranged attacks, or get an attack % buff when no enemies are flanking, meaning they can get a significant edge when fighting 1vs1 against a unit of similar CS. Hell, I even wouldn't mind some extra culture per kill, considering hoplites are becoming outdated by the time your cities build acropolis.
Greggy08
Warlord
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- Jul 2, 2015
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- 242
I agree, hoplies are too weak. I have a few suggestions:
- x2 xp when defending. I like this very much[emoji1].
- bonus if defending from the front (is this possible?) or cover
- GAP per kill
Aldebaran1997
Prince
My recent game using VP(6-15) with EUI playing Greece doesn't double CS's quests influence reward. I clear barbarian camp for them and their influence grows only 15, literally they promised. Any idea? Do I need to upload log?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they are supposed to get double influence from quests.
Aldebaran1997
Prince
Sorry for my misunderstanding. I think Greek UA "CS influence recovers at double rate" means gaining all kind of CS influence doubled incl quests. Thanks!
It just means that if you're below the restingpoint (for example if you've demanded tribute), you get your influence back twice as fast.
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