Greecemod: Not a Byzwank, Promise (EU4 althist mod creation/discussion thread)

Most obvious things I'm noting on a cursory view through:

I'm not sure what's happening in NA, but it looks a bit odd, and Vinland doesn't make any sense in this world

Romance cultures have an odd distinction; IRL, the Iberian languages split first along the Portu-Galician line, with protoCastilian/Aragonese/Leonese coming out afterwords. Catalan is closer to Occitan than the rest of the Iberian languages. Presumably, if there's as much Semitic influence around Iberia as is indicated, there should also be an alt-equivalent of Mozarabic dominating the peninsula, too.

If you're invading China - which is a bit odd; the migrations headed to Europe for a reason (namely that China was a bit more competent at defending itself), then southern China should not be Han, or even Sinitic - it was still largely Austronesian around this PoD, and you're distracting the population migrations and military events that would eventually lead to the Sinicisation of the region in the next several centuries.

Vinland is based on the concept that the Norse were relatively unaffected by the events elsewhere, and had an era of expansion at the same time as OTL 8th-11th centuries. Its admittedly a bit of a leap as far as butterflies go but we've already done that by having Christianity and Islam exist. And its a thing i'd like to keep in.

I'll let you guys/Megs figure out Europe amongst yourselves, though I think we've decided a decent chunk of it is Muslim. Everything put there so far can be ignored. The only think I would suggest is Muslim Kent just for Nigel Farage's sake.

Re: china, I was under the impression that most of the sinicization of the south happened during the Han Dynasty, which I imagined still existing here in some form (until brought down by nomadic invasions from the west). But this can be changed. I don't imagine Hellenic China happening until the *Han falls.
 
It had started, certainly; it generally was reaching the final stages between the last few centuries BC, with the final holdouts collapsing around AD 150. So it's not *inconceivable* that large regions are at least partially sinicised. The problem was focused more on the idea that, if you're forcing migrations the other way right from the get-go, then China's focus isn't going to be south, it's going to be on defending the north and repulsing the invaders.
 
I think I understand what you're saying. Now I think, some Yue states (from 10 minutes on wiki I think that's what they are?) surviving in southern China seems like a good idea, so I think we should move the Han state northwards a bit, maybe make it smaller, and make the coast Austronesian. Does that work out?

While we're on the subject, who else should we put in China(/Korea/Japan) aside from Bair's Magyars/Testveri? I envisioned Northern China in particular as a patchwork of different (partly sinicized?) ethnic Turks and other steppe peoples who moved there.

Also, re: Hellenism, I support this idea. We could say the local groups are even local mythologies (Hindu gods, the Buddha, etc.) being integrated with the standard Greek stuff.
 
I think I understand what you're saying. Now I think, some Yue states (from 10 minutes on wiki I think that's what they are?) surviving in southern China seems like a good idea, so I think we should move the Han state northwards a bit, maybe make it smaller, and make the coast Austronesian. Does that work out?

While we're on the subject, who else should we put in China(/Korea/Japan) aside from Bair's Magyars/Testveri? I envisioned Northern China in particular as a patchwork of different (partly sinicized?) ethnic Turks and other steppe peoples who moved there.

Also, re: Hellenism, I support this idea. We could say the local groups are even local mythologies (Hindu gods, the Buddha, etc.) being integrated with the standard Greek stuff.

Not following the Hellenism (dem butterflies), but otherwise, yeah. SW China would be rather close to northern/central Vietnam*, while SE China would be closer to Taiwan* and southwards points (all Austronesian).

As far as Japan, I imagine some sort of polity will centralize their; the way culture and religion are modeled in EUIV are abstracted and far enough from reality that they might as well work; perhaps a bit more Ainu influence up around Tohoku.

Will worry about commenting on the Americas later.
 
Indeed :p

Here is the current map (ignore Europe north of Greece)

Spoiler :
Dsndk2.png
 
:bump: of the day :p
-I didn't do any work on this today but what I have started (and think is relatively important) is to work on a list of tags. Obviously we're nowhere close to even finishing setup but this is still something that should be considered.
-Christian-controlled Mecca is confirmed, so I think filling in Arabia and Egypt and Northeast Africa is a logical next step while Europe gets worked on. Any ideas? I had Egypt be the last remnant of some past larger empire but other than that I'm not sure.
 
Just had a fantastic idea: Ethiopia as a Islamic "Crusader" State.
 
I really like that. Crusader state, as in it was recently conquered by the jihadists amidst the whole "trying to reclaim Mecca" thing?
 
Sorry about the double post, but the tag list as of now is here, so you all can add as you wish to.

Additionally, I've had some ideas about India. I've figured that there would have been some indirect Hellenization combined with incursions by Hellenized outsiders during periods of chaos, plus fun with the addition of Christianity. I also imagined Hellenism's presence as allowing Buddhism to survive in the subcontinent. (Hellenic = Indian Hellenic if we're going that route) So I've taken the liberty of filling in a bit of the map:

Spoiler :
4W3dLJr.png


The pink state in Punjab is Indica, which is the only Catholic state in the region. To the southeast is the Hellenic unnamed green state, which I imagined as being the remnant of some past much larger Hellenic empire. The other Hellenic states are Nepal (because why not) and Kalinga, the blue state in OTL Orissa. Magadha (the tan state east of greencountry), *Bengal, and *Tibet (a Tibeten state more involved in east India would be fun IMO) are all Buddhist.

In the south, there is *Kerala, which I envisioned as being the center of an alt-Orthodox church headquartered somewhere east of Catholicism. Next to it is Pandya (possibly also Orthodox), which rose to power and defeated Hindu Chola, which was exiled to its colonies in Sumatra (it is now the country on Sumatra's west coast)

The as-yet-unfilled center is a mess of various Orthodox, Buddhist, and remnant Hindu countries.

Thoughts?
 
I kind of want to see a Chinese HRE system actually, with a bunch of tiny OPMs everywhere of varying levels of Sinicization, with the Magyars being a more recent threat like the Ottoman Empire OTL. Flags would be easy to make if we just follow the Paradox standard of using just the character and a background color.

Also, I would like to vote for a divided Japan. The more tiny countries, the more everybody's suggestions gets implemented. And I'm a sucker for alternate character readings.
 
The more tiny countries, the more everybody's suggestions gets implemented.
There is a minor (pun intended) problem with this, raised over on the paradox forums by Akronblad (creator of 399AD and Aurora Universalis) and qweyt (of the Extended Timeline mod).
Apparently too many tags make the game crash.
Constantly.
 
I kind of want to see a Chinese HRE system actually, with a bunch of tiny OPMs everywhere of varying levels of Sinicization, with the Magyars being a more recent threat like the Ottoman Empire OTL. Flags would be easy to make if we just follow the Paradox standard of using just the character and a background color.

Also, I would like to vote for a divided Japan. The more tiny countries, the more everybody's suggestions gets implemented. And I'm a sucker for alternate character readings.

I agree with you on that China should be divided into a number of small countries (which will be made easier by AoW pretty much doubling China's province count), but I think we've pretty much committed so far to Greece being the HRE.

More tiny countries is great, and I fully support it. However, we must be careful to avoid the mod becoming just a number of evenly sized OPMs or two- or three-province minor blobs, and we should still have.

That being said, I think there should still be at least a few relatively large countries. I think it would be best if we placed them in regions that are incredibly disunited in vanilla - Germany and mainland Southeast Asia were the two regions that came to my mind as possibilities. Maybe we could also have a large and strong, coastal-ish West African state as something that could possibly interact with Western Europe and North Africa; also West Africans conducting expeditions to the New World would be based.

There is a minor (pun intended) problem with this, raised over on the paradox forums by Akronblad (creator of 399AD and Aurora Universalis) and qweyt (of the Extended Timeline mod).
Apparently too many tags make the game crash.
Constantly.

huehue

Interesting, will keep in mind. Speaking of Extended Timeline, I know that mod has some assets (such as Hellenic religious icons) we could steal borrow.

---

Anyway, summarizing from what Terran, NC, and i discussed on chat earlier today:
-The vague equivalent of Orthodoxy will be an Indian-based eastern church, perhaps based on the historical Syrian Christianity of St. Thomas (which, confusingly, had absolutely nothing to do with Syria) with followers in southern India, Indonesia, and mainland Southeast Asia, and possibly elsewhere. It's also possible that this religion combines elements of Christianity with Hinduism, which would be interesting.
-Buddhism not only survives in India, but spread westwards across the Indian Ocean, such that some countries there (Oman and East Africa were brought up) have Buddhist governments/majorities.
-All major, large enough religions should have reformation chains.
-Some preliminary ideas were discussed regarding tech groups. Most of the former Argean Empire is Western, Persia and Central Asia are Ottoman, the western European Muslims are still Muslim, pagan Europe is either Indian or Chinese (or a mix of both), China and India are going to be a tech group or two more advanced than vanilla (maybe India is Muslim, China is Indian) the nomads are still Nomad, and Vinland is probably Chinese. Obviously most of these are getting renamed but that's a base. And something needs to be Eastern; now that I think of it maybe countries close to Greece but still somewhat removed (like the Balkans, Scythia, North Africa, northern Italy, etc.) should be in that group. But these can all be changed.
-I had the idea of the Incas accidentally discovering gunpowder (ala Guns of the Tawantinsuyu or Sunset Invasion) and thus being more powerful and advanced than vanilla. Some people didn't like the idea, so this probably won't make it in.

Also regarding the reformations, I just had another idea. What if we made all those dependent on conditions that don't happen each game, so a different set occurred each game, thus making each game different and more unpredictable?
 
Alright, well then maybe the Shogunate system be implemented in China as the Hegemon of All Under Heaven? I just think some mechanic should be in place to cater a reunification.

Will the other mechanics be re-purposed as well? If so, then perhaps some kingdom in Africa could receive the equivalent of Ming factions?

As for the Reformation, we would need to create different styles/types of reformed religions (which I would find fun) for all the possible parent beliefs. Also, if Islam is now in Europe, can we expect an Emir Abubacar III of Bordeaux?
 
Alright, well then maybe the Shogunate system be implemented in China as the Hegemon of All Under Heaven? I just think some mechanic should be in place to cater a reunification.

That could work, still prefer eu3 japan's system to eu4
 
Also regarding the reformations, I just had another idea. What if we made all those dependent on conditions that don't happen each game, so a different set occurred each game, thus making each game different and more unpredictable?

I love this idea. I might actually try to work on this sometime soon if no one else does. I think having an unpredictable level of reformation adds a lot to the game. Krzowwh is correct however that numerous religions would most likely need to be added to accomadate this.
 
Back
Top Bottom