Grigori : Brainstorm Thread

[Opera]

Well, Cassiel is Adaptive, so if you want to go for culture, just choose Creative, no?

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, Cassiel is Adaptive, so if you want to go for culture, just choose Creative, no?

Can you do it at will? Chosing organized can help you build those powerful wonders, or build those buildings...

I see that choice maybe twice, three times a game by the time I've won, and the tradeoff of 100+ turns before your next choice strikes me as really annoying.

Plus, I like the idea of being to add civ traits during the game.

 

[Opera]

Yeah, you have to wait 100 turns to select your new trait.

Well, it's possible to do that, adding traits upon building creation. But for your idea, basically, apart from the production boosts, you only gain +2 in each city. Might as well give the Grigori a free building having this effect in each city upon construction of the "creative building". It's more flexible than a trait (you can give many different bonuses with buildings) and you don't have to use python.

But if you like your idea, nothing prevents you from applying it

 

[Imuratep]

Creative is a very weak trait for cultural victory as you usually have 500 per turn or something like this if you go for cultural victory. Even with all modifiers (the Grigori currently don't have) that's not more than about 6 - not very impressive. That's why I think independent of the Grigori Creative should be strengthened by giving it a 25% bonus in all cities.

 

[Imuratep]

You can't do that without editing the DLL. But trade routes aren't meant to increase commerces since commerces come from the "commerce" yield.

As I think about it perhaps the immigration should trigger a culture boom in those cities instead of trade routes (as this does not seem to be possible without great efforts). The culture boost could be connected to the cultural level of the city to balance the effect. This should be something doable with python. 5 --> 20 --> 100 --> 200 --> 500 everytime a citizen immigrates into a Grigori city.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah, you have to wait 100 turns to select your new trait.

Well, it's possible to do that, adding traits upon building creation. But for your idea, basically, apart from the production boosts, you only gain +2 in each city. Might as well give the Grigori a free building having this effect in each city upon construction of the "creative building". It's more flexible than a trait (you can give many different bonuses with buildings) and you don't have to use python.

But if you like your idea, nothing prevents you from applying it

Well, I'm all for more more options. I just like mid-game upgrades. (And while the creative boost isn't much, it does allow you to branch towards other traits...)

More seriously, I'm already scheduled to be far, far too busy for serious programming outside of what I'm already going to have to learn as an EE and more. All I can do is organize and throw out ideas/think.

Speaking of organizing, does anyone else think we should try and organize these ideas under a prospective 'Grigori Plus' grouping, rather than the current one-idea-at-a-time? That could provide a better framework for developing ideas and improvements than just pick-and-choose from the current chain of thought. By focusing on culture avenues, for example, we brought forward a number of realistic ideas on feasible things to do (trade routes, Forums, etc.). If we organize the areas we're concerned about, we can focus on each more efficiently.

Or at least, the people who will actually code can have a more complete list of ideas and thoughts to work at.



Currently, it's looking more like this.

'Grigori Plus'


Military: Balance the early-game Grigori warmongering. Adventurers are OK to a point, but the early armies need to be weakened. Main thought so far is..

-Militia mechanic. Concept is for cheaper, weaker units with cost/MC's event penalties for going outside Grigori cultural borders. Could be implemented by UU or promotion, either of which could be promoted/upgraded out of. Tier 3 units and certain path trees (scout and arcane) unaffected.


Culture: Make the culture victory a desirable and realistic path for the Grigori. The lack of religions necessitates more buildings/wonders.

-More Grigori buildings which produce culture, and increasing the culture of those Grigori buildings already existing.

-The Grigori Forum, art from the Roman Forum UB from Vanilla. Based on map size, the more forums you build, the more significant their culture bonus. Each individual forum is roughly the cost of a money changer.

-Culture per trade route. Possibly tied in with Immigration wonder.

-Tied in with below, a Grigori-only specialist called 'philosopher'. Somewhat similar to a priest, only culture and science rather than hammers and gold. Since it is Grigori-only, it's culture value might come close to a bard's.



Adventurer spawning: Increase the ability to produce Adventurers, while fighting GPP polution.

-More Grigori UB which add Adventurer points.

-Buildings which increase the chance for an Adventurer to spawn.

-The Philosopher specialist, who gives Adventurer GPP. He would be tied to Grigori-only UB, but preferably in a way that keeps Tolerant civs from building their own Adventurers.


ALTERNATIVELY

-Abandon the GPP Adventurer system, and adopt the FF+'s scion-esque spawn system.

-Buildings that would give GPP might boost adventurer spawning rate instead.

-Philosopher specialist might still exist, but it's role in Adventurer spawning changed(?)

-Ardor might be modified to reset the GPP counter OR the Adventurer spawn, but not necessarily both.



Immigration: Allow Grigori to gain/expand Immigration trait, allowing them racial promotions on a random basis.

-Unique Wonder Hall of Refuge/Tolerance, using Kong Miao graphics. Requires trade routes with foreign civs, high cost (600?) that can be reduced in part with copper/marble. Once completed, gain the Tolerant trait and start producing racial units.





OTHER:

Possible advancing theme of getting stronger through later-game actions/development, as also started in the Tolerant wonder, the increasingly effective forums, and the early/mid-game function of the militia system.

-Hall of Kings giving Creative.

-The Hall of Wonders. Prospective wonder suggested pages back. High cost, very low initial return, but gains in benefits as game goes on, becoming potentially very powerful indeed. Benefits/requirements would need to be sorted.

 

[Tasunke]

As of now, I've added a Walking School (you know, those Peripatetic thingies of Aristotle? ) that replaces the Academy and is buildable normally. Gives +1, +3, +25 and . I plan on renaming it though.

Paedagogue? Paedagogus?

Or even a gymnasortium.